Attn Private Rental Estate Owners-off line Group Notices may be stopping

[Victorian Magic]

Last two Third Party Viewer meetings, lead by Oz Linden, have raised the possibility the Lab "may" be stopping GROUP NOTICES GOING TO EMAIL WHEN your residents are off line. The Lab is concerned about their reputation as a spammer when people toss these messages into junk(which the  resident  may do to keep them in a 30 day catch basin vs an immediate delete). Private IMs off line will still deliver if the email address is verified.

I feel private estates , probably more than store groups, will have their communities negatively impacted by the planned non-delivery of off-line group notices.

When the group member logs in- the notice is there (even though ,for some groups I NEVER get my notices in world or off) but if your estate has events , town meetings, releases new land  offerings etc.  a resident would have to get  in world on that account to get the notice. If they don't log in, it is radio silence.

And if, as is common, your residents include an alt(or two) who rarely logs then  the active tenant may not get the notice since it would no longer go to the group member alts email that the active resident can easily monitor .

Oz did say they will be upgrading event listings to help buffer this proposed change  but , my opinion, private estates may not want to post events for the whole grid to see. Winks. 

Source at    listen at  time   stamp  19: 47

If you feel your Private rental estate would be hampered  by no more off line group notices to  your resident group or  the community would be damaged please let Linden know however you Land Baron types let Linden know your wishes.

I'm just a resident of private estates, not an estate owner, but I use group notices off lines ALL THE TIME to get into community events etc. keep current when event times change etc.  Communities are the heart of Second Life, I don't want barriers to us staying in touch, especially when we pay money to rent to be part of a community.

[animats]

You should be able to subscribe or unsubscribe from forwarding to email on an "all", "group", or "sending resident" basis. Start out at "unsubscribed".

[Victorian Magic]

9 minutes ago, animats said:

You should be able to subscribe or unsubscribe from forwarding to email on an "all", "group", or "sending resident" basis. Start out at "unsubscribed". 

Where are these choices? They don't exist-- and won't-- so this is not a solution.

The Lab said they will not be adding additional forwarding choices.They want to flip the lever to off line group notices OFF.

So this situation that bothers me will exist.

[Gabriele Graves]

Gmail repeatedly sticks random group notices in the spam folder for me even when I repeatedly tell it they are not spam and has done for as long as I can remember.  I think this is probably more the cause than resident deliberately marking them as spam as per the OP which I doubt really happens much.

[Emilly Orr]

1. This has been happening for ten years now. Routinely Gmail tosses everything from Second Life into the spam folder; I have to gut it out and inform them, yet again, that it's not spam. Why is the Lab concerned *now* about being listed as spam email, when they weren't concerned when it *started* a decade ago?

2. I *rely* on offline messages from groups. I'm sure I'm not the only one. Even with that, sometimes messages cap, so I have to go through all my groups and check for new notices. Why can't this continue as standard practice?

3. At least in Firestorm, Ms. Magic, at the bottom of each group's information page, there are group settings to show the group, below that to receive group notices, and below that to receive group IMs. Beyond that (again, at least in Firestorm), going to Avatar > Preferences > Chat > Notices, then going down to 'Email me IMs when I'm offline', and checking that box, will give you the option to have things mailed to you or not. I don't know what will happen if the Lindens delete this option. That would be very bad. 

4. This is a very bad idea. It will lead to more controversy than it will give solutions. I urge the Lindens to reconsider their actions.

 

[iSkye Silverweb]

As a resident I have set my preference to receive group notices in email. I also have gone into individual group profiles and unticked the "Receive group notices" option for those groups that I don't want to get offline emails OR inworld notices from. I tick that option for those groups that I want to get inworld notices and offline emails. Always worked well for me (and yes, I have a gmail address - no problems). I like having that level of control over my SL experience.

Also as a resident, my concern with the Lab removing the ability to have group notices sent to email when I am offline is to do with getting messages capped. I would really hate to miss notices that came in after my messages limit was reached because I was out of SL for a couple of days. I am a member of several very active inworld groups that have private regions, and they frequently communicate with their members using group notices. By taking away that option, Lindens, that's a pretty darned effective way to torpedo our efforts to be part of our communities.

From the POV of a member of a management/organising team for some groups, being unable to keep the community members in the loop via offline notices sent to email when they have opted into receiving them is just making our lives more difficult. We want to keep these members informed, as they wanted and opted in to be informed, so that they can feel they are still connected to their communities even when they cannot be inworld.  It could have catastrophic consequences to all the hard work and effort that goes into trying to build and strengthen our inworld communities.

As regards the SL Events calendar...one of the groups that I help manage has events that are intended only for members of the group. To expect these private groups to post their events on a very public events calendar just won't work for them. In those particular groups, they don't need or want everybody and their uncle coming to their events. Other private groups are more public and more open to it - it should be an available option, and not the only way, to inform these private communities about upcoming participation opportunities. 

I really hope you will reconsider the idea. Good intention, not great execution. I think the effort should go toward educating/reminding the residents (many newer ones may not even know they can opt out of receiving group notices!) and educating them about the choices they have, and also about whitelisting in their email options those offline notices so they don't get marked as spam, etc. I think that's a much better solution, and it will remind SL residents that they do have this level of control over their SL experience, and what they get in their email. 

Edited May 20, 2019 by iSkye Silverweb
clarification

[Russ Moonites]

Discord maybe an alternative option for them to use. I've noticed other Second Life communities use it for event announcements and etc.

[Alyona Su]

On 5/18/2019 at 6:29 PM, Victorian Magic said:

Last two Third Party Viewer meetings, lead by Oz Linden, have raised the possibility the Lab "may" be stopping GROUP NOTICES GOING TO EMAIL WHEN your residents are off line. The Lab is concerned about their reputation as a spammer when people toss these messages into junk(which the  resident  may do to keep them in a 30 day catch basin vs an immediate delete). Private IMs off line will still deliver if the email address is verified.

I feel private estates , probably more than store groups, will have their communities negatively impacted by the planned non-delivery of off-line group notices.

6

I'm really curious how the hell "may" turned into "planned". It's a proposed change. When did "proposal" turn into "planning"? Enough with the hysterics and scare-tactics. At this point that's all this is.

[iSkye Silverweb]

Why should we have to go outside of SL to do that, when events are inworld, and the system as it is set up sends an email of the group notices to a person if they are offline, and they've opted in to receive those offline emails? They can opt out if they dont want them. The main reason for having notices going to email for offline group members is so they are kept in the loop about events. 

Discord, well...if you don't mind finding yourself on a zillion servers all of a sudden... I got bowled over with just so many servers and all of them sending out messages etc. and if you don't look at them for a couple of days you've got hundreds of messages to catch up on. I ended up muting most of them because it was taking up too much of my time to go through all the chat to find important stuff. I suppose if they were announcement-only servers that'd be livable. I found it just too much, all the chattiness on Discord.

[Victorian Magic]

On 5/21/2019 at 9:30 AM, Alyona Su said:

I'm really curious how the hell "may" turned into "planned". It's a proposed change. When did "proposal" turn into "planning"? Enough with the hysterics and scare-tactics. At this point that's all this is.

I find your language  rude and  sexist-- "hysterics" is a highly charged word.

Why don't you listen to the TPV meetings. Listen to the words. This issue has been brought up twice. Two TPVs. That's how corporations put users on "notice" of pending changes.

At the time stamp

Oz Linden
“I think ,I think the plan is to try turning them (group notices ) off- that is not forwarding group notices to email, globally at this point because it is the only thing we can do quickly. “

Parse that.

 

[Paul Hexem]

This would have been a good change ten years ago. Now it's just dumb. 

Also, the word "hysterics" isn't sexist. It's an accurate description of what's happening, regardless of gender. 

[Fox Wijaya]

On 5/23/2019 at 8:35 AM, Victorian Magic said:

I find xxxxx

however you can find that, it doesn't always have to be what you find   some people have a bit harder style to express themselve than others.
If some posters bother you on regular base it can be wiser to put them on ignore, it's not watertight, but works fine as first barricade. You can always click the message to unfold if it's posted in a interesting topic.

[Victorian Magic]

Side footnotes :

https://medium.com/@peacelovetrig/on-the-sexist-etimology-of-hysteria-and-what-academia-did-about-it-ef98815ddb6c

"The American Psychiatric Association did not officially kill ‘hysteria’ as a clinical term until 1980, "

and at time stamp 0:40 seconds ,   from 1995

SOUNDBITE:

Cochran: "We are certainly aren't  going to  yell at your Honor  and become hysterical."

Clark: "...That kind of personal attack is very improper and inappropriate the court knows it was  simply advocacy and I'm not yelling at anyone for Mr. Cochran to make that kind of sexist remark "hysterical " I take great umbrage at it and I think the court should not countenance  that kind of behavior."

Ito: "I don't"

Cochran: "She finished?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UE5FBjz_qMM  

Words change meaning or become acknowledged for what they are as time goes on. Just don't change the group notices.

 

[Victorian Magic]

Stopping Group Notices from going to email Oz says not sure where on priority list.  TPV group 5/31

at 10:50 on the Youtube clock.

They will be working on improving group behavior  "soon", which is wonderful, but not getting off line group  notices is still not getting offline notices.