Show homes are prohibited adverts ....

[Tarani Tempest]

1 minute ago, Beth Macbain said:

The irony is policing what people can and cannot say while complaining about what people can and cannot discuss. 

I did not tell anyone one what they can or cannot say.  I just expressed my exasperation at being told what I can and cannot do with my own place.  Those are very different.  You all can continue discuss it ad nauseam.  I will continue to use the LL covenant as my guide to how I can live on Bellisseria.

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

16 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

Policing what people can and cannot talk about is just as annoying as telling people what they can and cannot do in their home. 

Replying to the part you added after Tara had replied... Perhaps, in your opinion, but for the rest of us who value the freedom to enjoy our SL as we wish as long as we are in compliance with the rules, this constant tutting and judging is way more annoying. If someone is breaking a rule, speak to them directly or report them. What good does it do to start passive aggressive shame threads to say what people "should" do, other than to stoke bad feelings? Keep on doing it if you must, but you are turning other people off from this whole "community" kumbaya idea by doing so. 

[Beth Macbain]

5 minutes ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

Replying to the part you added after Tara had replied... Perhaps, in your opinion, but for the rest of us who value the freedom to enjoy our SL as we wish as long as we are in compliance with the rules, this constant tutting and judging is way more annoying. If someone is breaking a rule, speak to them directly or report them. What good does it do to start passive aggressive shame threads to say what people "should" do, other than to stoke bad feelings? Keep on doing it if you must, but you are turning other people off from this whole "community" kumbaya idea by doing so. 

I agree this is something that the Lindens should decide, or ignore, if they're fine with the way things are. I'm just a Pollyanna that wants everyone to be nice to each other... lol.

And trust me, with some of the activities I get up to on my boat, I don't wish for a visit from the morality police, either! I'm just waiting for complaints about being nude on my boat with the privacy turned off. Or sailing nude. 😋

[LittleMe Jewell]

33 minutes ago, Tarani Tempest said:

 The deal is this, as long as you abide by the covenant... you are golden. 

 

I think that is exactly what the OP was questioning though.  Are the Show Homes abiding by covenant or not?

 

The discussion of what people can do with their houses is perfectly valid if it is totally within the realm of "is this abiding by the covenant?"

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

1 minute ago, Beth Macbain said:

I agree this is something that the Lindens should decide, or ignore, if they're fine with the way things are. I'm just a Pollyanna that wants everyone to be nice to each other... lol.

And trust me, with some of the activities I get up to on my boat, I don't wish for a visit from the morality police, either! I'm just waiting for complaints about being nude on my boat with the privacy turned off. Or sailing nude. 😋

*starts a new thread to judge Beth's naughty boat*  lol

[Beth Macbain]

Just now, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

*starts a new thread to judge Beth's naughty boat*  lol

Only if the judging includes ways to make it even naughtier! 😝

[Tarani Tempest]

Just now, LittleMe Jewell said:

I think that is exactly what the OP was questioning though.  Are the Show Homes abiding by covenant or not?

 

The discussion of what people can do with their houses is perfectly valid if it is totally within the realm of "is this abiding by the covenant?"

As far as I can tell , they fall within the covenant.  They are not doing anything wrong. 

If LL decides they are, by showing their house...having an open house, then everyone else will have to abide by that as well. Meaning no one can have an open house, designer or not.  You cannot single out residents that are also designers.

But, as of right now....they are not breaking the covenant.

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

Just now, Beth Macbain said:

Only if the judging includes ways to make it even naughtier! 😝

Judging is free. Constructive criticism will cost you. 

[Beth Macbain]

I think that we're experiencing some growing pains all living together on this new continent. I'm likening it to, I dunno, there are municipal and city laws and regulations in every town, but then there are also homeowner's associations with their own rules. We've already seen some changes made to the covenant that are unique to Bellisseria that wouldn't have been made if people hadn't discussed it here, like the orbs and flying. 

Personally, I don't care about the show homes but I think maybe they should be time-limited, like home and garden expos, maybe, but really... I don't care either way. Nor do I care about  people using their homes to make little cafes, pubs, arcades, etc., but I do care about the one instance I've seen so far of someone putting a facade over their place and turning it into a gym with a big sign. Other people liked it, though, and it's not next to me so not really any of my business, until the people next to me put a barn over their boat and and a big sign that says Gilley's and say that if the gym is okay, so is this. 

Also, though, I hate HOAs, but at the same time, I don't want a barn boat next door to me.

 

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

I hate HOAs as well, and absolutely do not want one in SL. None of us signed up for an HOA when we decided to live on Bellisseria, and honestly, if people go wildly out of theme with barns on their boats or whatever, that is the Lab's job to deal with it pursuant to the Covenant. I do not want the residents deciding what is proper and what is not. Maybe the ones who like HOAs (or similar "police your neighbors" schemes) could make a little RP group and police each other. Just leave the rest of us out of it.

I think you hit on the key words though "not really any of my business". That is a great guideline to follow when deciding whether or not what something needs to be said about what someone else is doing with their parcel!

[Beth Macbain]

43 minutes ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

I hate HOAs as well, and absolutely do not want one in SL. None of us signed up for an HOA when we decided to live on Bellisseria, and honestly, if people go wildly out of theme with barns on their boats or whatever, that is the Lab's job to deal with it pursuant to the Covenant. I do not want the residents deciding what is proper and what is not. Maybe the ones who like HOAs (or similar "police your neighbors" schemes) could make a little RP group and police each other. Just leave the rest of us out of it.

I think you hit on the key words though "not really any of my business". That is a great guideline to follow when deciding whether or not what something needs to be said about what someone else is doing with their parcel!

Great! So I can have sex on my boat without going into my land settings and changing the privacy thingie? 

(TOTALLY just playing devil's advocate here!)

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

Just now, Beth Macbain said:

Great! So I can have sex on my boat without going into my land settings and changing the privacy thingie? 

(TOTALLY just playing devil's advocate here!)

Would you be violating any of LL's rules? (I think you know you would be.)

[Beth Macbain]

Just now, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

Would you be violating any of LL's rules? (I think you know you would be.)

I actually talked to live chat about this after scratching my head at the Covenant and the "reasonable attempt to keep things behind closed doors". I feel like my parcel, being mine, is behind closed doors and no one has to cam in on it. As you say, people can mind their own business and as long as I'm not on public land, I don't see the harm in it. I also said that I don't feel it's reasonable to expect me to remember to go into my land settings when the mood strikes because my brain is likely scrambled...lol. Live chat basically told me to try it and if anyone reported it, it would be up to the Linden Governance Committee to decide. I asked if I could escalate my question directly to the governance committee and was told no, so I couldn't get a straight answer. 

How about erotic art on my walls? Can I hang photos of myself having sex? 

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

3 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

I actually talked to live chat about this after scratching my head at the Covenant and the "reasonable attempt to keep things behind closed doors". I feel like my parcel, being mine, is behind closed doors and no one has to cam in on it. As you say, people can mind their own business and as long as I'm not on public land, I don't see the harm in it. I also said that I don't feel it's reasonable to expect me to remember to go into my land settings when the mood strikes because my brain is likely scrambled...lol. Live chat basically told me to try it and if anyone reported it, it would be up to the Linden Governance Committee to decide. I asked if I could escalate my question directly to the governance committee and was told no, so I couldn't get a straight answer. 

How about erotic art on my walls? Can I hang photos of myself having sex? 

Again, I think you know the answer. (Personally, I don't care what anyone does, as long as it's not affecting me.) This FAQ has always been what I use as a guide regarding "behind closed doors", which is why I do keep parcel privacy on:

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Adult_Content_FAQ

[Beth Macbain]

4 minutes ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

Again, I think you know the answer. (Personally, I don't care what anyone does, as long as it's not affecting me.) This FAQ has always been what I use as a guide regarding "behind closed doors", which is why I do keep parcel privacy on:

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Adult_Content_FAQ

And I'm positive that has been modified over the years to account for situations that have arisen that no one anticipated, just like the Bellisseria covenant has already been modified to cover ban lines, flying, orbs, etc. And they wouldn't have changed any of that if no one ever brought those things up. 

I don't think LL anticipated show homes. The home alluded to in this thread has already clarified that they used items from multiple creators and it really isn't an advertisement and I agree with that. I know of another, though, that is *only* stuff from one creator and that creator is advertising it on social media. Does that make any difference in context to the discussion in this thread?

That question isn't meant to sound argumentative, I swear! I'm genuinely curious if that makes a difference knowing it is being advertised as a showcase for one particular creator's items. 

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

Nope, because we are not an HOA and it's not our job to police that person. File an AR if they are violating a rule. I suggest including a screenshot to illustrate the violation.

ETA: You know, I just went and had a look at that designer's FB page. He mentioned his house one time, last month, to his target audience of fans of his store. This is not even an outreach to get new customers! I think it's fine.... but again, it is up to LL, not us, to decide. 

Edited May 20, 2019 by Sylvia Tamalyn

[Suellen Heartsong]

My biggest concern has always been privacy, even though there is the setting are people seriously just that bored that

they feel they need to "cam" to see what I may be doing in my home?  I would hope that we can all live together in this new community without

all the judgment on what this one or that might be doing on their parcel behind closed doors.

That being said, I would file the AR if needed for a rule violation but only as a last resort.

Turning off "allow others to see" is always my first option.

[Beth Macbain]

7 minutes ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

Nope, because we are not an HOA and it's not our job to police that person. File an AR if they are violating a rule. I suggest including a screenshot to illustrate the violation.

If people are unsure if something is violating the Covenant, where should they ask for clarification about it before they bother LL with yet another ticket? Or is the general consensus that there be no discussion and everything should automatically be escalated to filing a ticket? I've seen a couple things both here and in the community group chats where something is brought up and a Mole or Linden has seen it and taken care of it without the need for a ticket, so I'm honestly unsure if the forums are a good place to bring up things like this or not when someone just wants some clarification before going to final step to report someone. 

It would all be MYOB if Bellisseria was a perfect world, except we all know that isn't going to happen, especially as more and more people move in and more neighbors start having disputes. LL will have to hire extra people just to deal with them and then our premium account fees go up to pay for those extra staff.

(I'm still playing devil's advocate, btw... feel free to tell me to stop creating imaginary scenarios and to zip it at any time! 🤐)

8 minutes ago, Suln Mahogany said:

My biggest concern has always been privacy, even though there is the setting are people seriously just that bored that

they feel they need to "cam" to see what I may be doing in my home?  I would hope that we can all live together in this new community without

all the judgment on what this one or that might be doing on their parcel behind closed doors.

That being said, I would file the AR if needed for a rule violation but only as a last resort.

Turning off "allow others to see" is always my first option.

See, my thing is the exact opposite of that. I don't care about people watching anything I do, except maybe being bald while changing hair... lol. If I'm inside my boat, not out on the deck, but literally behind closed doors, having sex, can I be reported because someone cammed in and saw me? 

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

You know, I said what I said. I'm not going to continue rehashing. I think I made my own position crystal clear.

[Sasy Scarborough]

Suggesting someone gives up their home, not cool, bullying in fact to even put it out there. There is no difference in one home set up open to all than any other, they just had a sign earlier than others. I would have had no idea it was his unless a friend told me, because so far my exploration has been physical, by that I mean I have walked or ridden around and enjoyed the spaces and entered or not homes that invited me to do so with signs. I haven't gone into edit (except for the dog) on things to see who owned them, I may have glanced at creator laughing that a linkset yesterday because the cow was now called a shelf...I have no idea who owns the homes, land settings, name of parcel, not caring because it was not the point. Now that I think on that I am worried I may enter the home of a nemesis and be slaughtered, oh well.

Still reeling a bit at the suggestion of anyone leaving their home, under the guise of it making them some kind of hero to do so, by announcing the drop.

On a side note, I have always said I am late to the internet...13 years in SL does not make me an expert on the rest of it. I am Sasy everywhere, because I hsd no real previous presence...so starting the post with an image, that yes I have seen them with different wording, does not translate to me as making it any different than if you didn't. Memes to me are thing people say differently just like gif. So it means I went into the post with just reading the title and written words, the assumption that all took it to be light and breezy lets chat, may have gotten missed by others too. I have seen many images as part of posts in the past, but again am not going to try and decipher if they are something trying to mean something else. This is how wars start, someone shares a picture of a cat, and someone sees someone kicking over a garbage can in the reflection of its eyes dun dun dunnnnn

[ananoelle]

1 hour ago, Beth Macbain said:

How about erotic art on my walls? Can I hang photos of myself having sex? 

I once had a neighbour who did this. What she had I wouldnt class as erotic art it was more so sick ***** (to me). I derendered everything she had on that plot as I didnt want or need to see it again (was my way of pretending she didnt exist). At the end of the day, I chose to cam into her house it was MY choice. She never asked me to snoop around her house js

[Coffee Pancake]

1 hour ago, Sasy Scarborough said:

Suggesting someone gives up their home, not cool

My suggestion for this was based on a show home not being quite the same as a residential home. It's not a personal space.

Dropping it with a bit of an event creates a momentary burst of excitement, which can then be followed by anticipation for the next show home. Creators setting up a time limited seasonal show home that only exists for a limited period, and when done ends with a bit of a contest keeps the whole endeavor interesting. What's better .. A show home that sits there forgotten after 6 months, frozen in the moment like a time capsule, or a new location and new theme every few months.

Even better would be to ditch the 'open house' subterfuge, make it a thing .. cycle them like events. 

Have it managed in partnership with LL like SLB, creators sign up, get allocated a random show home from whatever LL want's to showcase, they do their thing and then it's all wrapped up .. till the next time. Show homes can be all together like SLB, or scattered about forcing people to visit different Linden Home locations. There are so many ways this can be done to keep it interesting and keep everyone playing.

It's totally marketing (in the same way SLB can be viewed as such), shows off content creators, shows off the latest Linden Homes. Everybody wins and no one is getting squinted at on the forums for (in my opinion) trying to sneak something past.

To really spell it out .. I'm not opposed to Show Homes, I'm opposed to the deliberate skirting of the rules and trying to pretend that everything is on the up and up. 

Finding the line, and then sitting as close as possible, is responsible for some of the most egregious content in SL. Either something is ok, or it's not, and as people seem to really like this, lets actually do it like we mean it and make it an organised and promoted thing.

 

[Mollymews]

@CoffeeDujour

i get where you come from in this kinda conservation. You have a lot of ideas on all sorts of things. Like what if is and what if that, maybe this, maybe that, maybe not, could it work, if it can then how, if can't then why not, etc etc. I remember the conversation you started on here about a reputation currency for SL. That was a pretty interesting discussion

about the topic though. I will burble a bit myself, starting from the premise: "If I was the boss of SL"

Actions that could be construed as commercial.  If I was the boss of SL then I would not change the covenant and I would for the time being go with the literal meaning of commerce. No vendor devices allowed, as vendor devices are wholely commercial. I would disallow tip jars on the basis that the property is not to be treated as a source of direct revenue earning. In the same way that sub-letting for L$ is not allowed

i would allow show homes for now, as my immediate priority is getting regions completed for residents. Recognising also that people want content to fit out their homes. Show homes provide another way for people to find content to buy. As the boss of SL I would want people to buy content as easily and simply as possible. Show homes helps with this

show homes for now as they are. Later on then No. No because I would make a Show Homes region(s). Non-transferable, tier paid parcels for content makers, claimed in the same way as the standard parcels.  Brand and product signage allowed. Rezzers allowed.  Vendor devices not allowed in the Show Homes. I would make it so that show/display products link to the owners Marketplace store item. As if I was the boss of SL then I want a piece of any sales as well. The more pieces of content sales I get the more easy it is for me, as the boss of SL, to reduce my reliance on tiers

[Sasy Scarborough]

2 hours ago, Mollymews said:

i would allow show homes for now, as my immediate priority is getting regions completed for residents. Recognising also that people want content to fit out their homes. Show homes provide another way for people to find content to buy. As the boss of SL I would want people to buy content as easily and simply as possible. Show homes helps with this

I made a post yesterday about waiting land and being able to have the linden homes available to builders, hobbyists etc, this is another reason for this to be possible, if a creator that made furniture wanted to set up the various builds on their own store sim with layouts of their own products to show how well they fit in the models of the homes they could, and it would be a way to spread the word of their existence even further. I was talking to another premium account holder for years friend the other day and yet again another that did not know these had even happened. If store X Y and Store Z all sent out notices to their tens of thousands of group members etc, saying come and see our designer showcase looks for the new linden homes at our Linden Homes display platform at our own land, they would flock, they would be curious and they may even become premium. 

I would bet that there were many that saw the homes decorated and thought oooo I am definitely grabbing one, vs the previous homes of the past that people remember were a challenge to do much with or desire to want to. I also think that those few homes that were set up day 1/2 were the motivation behind others opening the doors to their own, I firmly believe it changed the mindset so fast that everyone wanted to tap in and be part of it.

Edited May 21, 2019 by Sasy Scarborough

[Sister Nova]

I’d not want to see show homes in Bellisseria. It’s a residential area. Nor do I wish to see any vendors. If I want to go shopping, I’ll go to the stores elsewhere.

The Parade of Homes is nice, it gives people ideas, and shows the creative flair of residents taking pride in their homes.

As there are no vendors, and from what I gather (I’ve not been to any of these places) not even any signage promoting any stores, how are these displays any different from the Parade displays? Why should a creator of furniture be exempt from displaying their home and creativity purely because they have a store elsewhere? And if a home owner favours a particular creator in their choice furniture, and enters their home in the Parade, can that then be deemed to be an advert?

I have a car outside my house. I favour the builder, and have mentioned his brand several times in chat when people enquire as to what cars are suitable for the roads in Bellisseria. Is having the car in front of my house advertising?

Where does it stop?

I believe that commerce as mentioned in the covenant, is the buying and selling of items/services. Therefore... No vendors. No tip jars. No rentals. Nothing that involves the transfer of funds, in these Linden Homes regions, that make up the continent of Bellisseria.