Show homes are prohibited adverts ....

[Chic Aeon]

The typist is so VERY glad that Chic is not a joiner and isn't in any Bellisseria Home groups - (have to smile - really).

That being said, I am obviously on the fringe here. But for the record (and folks can believe me or not as they choose) except for my last building which was a request, all the work I have done in the past month were things for MYSELF.  I have given up making products, given up the Event rat-race (one only now and not nine). Things now are  either for ME because I want them and can't find them already made -- or they are for LEA6.

Do I sell my creations afterwards? Certainly. But I am sure a few creators will understand the difference here --  and it is more of a physiological thing than a business choice.  I am WAY happier and get much more enjoyment from the process with the the new (and this actually was my old method for many years also) plan.

I am perfectly fine with whatever the decision is made -- IF one is made (I am doubtful that it will be). I can easily make a mock up house and put my add-ons as demos on my own shop land. I have plenty  of prims available to me. I think it is NICER to see things as the are naturally, but not a big deal for me at all. 

Edited May 19, 2019 by Chic Aeon
spelling of course

[kiramanell]

11 minutes ago, Sasy Scarborough said:

I love when people label me, I wear many hats in Second Life, Blogging is not the first or the only one, but thank you for that, it is rare to actually meet anyone that does not do something in Second Life other than exist, so you are pretty much shooting fish in a barrel.

I bothered to look you up, because now you have labelled me I wanted to know who and what you were, what you are is an add on creator for Linden Homes, that is it, all you have listed on marketplace. So essentially unless you have an inworld store with other items, some of your SL income is derived from the success of the community that you create for. Someone mentioned that you were even sharing this tirade in the groups, again your own wading pool. 

So all that this does for me now, is show that you used everything here as a marketing tool yourself,  you are one of those that buy into the whole no publicity is bad publicity way of thinking. Well played, I looked you up, I opened your marketplace, I saw things you have for sale and I closed it, had this been a different thread, I would have guided others to purchase, not as a Blogger but as a Second Life Resident that wants to help people find great things. 

Did you get enough attention ? 

 

Every sane bone in me prompts me to stay the heck away from this; then again, I'm known for doing the occasional blonde thing. 😜

In all seriousness, though, I have to admit, there's a certain irony attached to CoffeeDujour apparently also selling house addons. But, as long as she's not engaging in commercial activity with them (at Bellisseria), I honestly fail to see the alleged hypocracy, or that she's even doing something wrong at all if she did (as I'm still not sold at all on the idea that showing your beautiful home constitutes an 'advert' somehow). I'm sure there are others making addon packs -- and some of those may even be posting here. No biggie.

Also, while I get you wanted to check her out -- and you have every right to, of course -- it also does feel a bit like crossing a line. Or, let me put it this way, it's not something I (would) do. I just read what ppl have to say here, without some sort of 'background check'. But I get that ppl do things differently.

[Kat Shadow]

  I think some clarification from LL may be useful here  before bad feelings set in.  FWIW, I edited the Happenings site to say specifically non commercial events and I called it Happenings as I wanted to emphasize the community aspect of gatherings- ie. a house party with someone spinning is not the same thing, to my mind , at all as a club with tip jars. And yes, lines get blurry and people find work arounds, but that's all the more reason for clarity from LL.

 

 

Edited May 19, 2019 by Kitten Kaos

[Sasy Scarborough]

3 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

You literally opened your post after the 2 paragraphs of preamble with " As a Blogger  " 

I mean you really did.

I did in relation to explaining what we hope to achieve when blogging but you are correct I am one and I did - the label is often thrown at people in a negative so I apologise for reacting to that -  you used it in a manner when labeling others to list who was involved, that sectioned us off. I also mentioned making things, selling things. You then mentioned gated communities as though there was a particular order of those worthy or not, that kind of started that whole thing rolling. Whether intentional or not, things get said in posts.

You are a sum of all your parts as am I. You cropped what I said about looking you up and finding you were a seller of add ons, you had mentioned yourself as a creator, as one of the things mentioned. I did not look at the rest of your profile in world, I did not look you up in forums, it is not how I would look into what you do as a creator that would only ever be in world profile and your in world profile makes no mention of the other things only picks linking to the viewer or a reddit so nothing feeble there at all , I only went to see what you create, it is why I also said some of your income because looking up what your part in the game was was all I was looking for, someone had mentioned competitor, so in what way was all I was interested in, I was actually surprised to find it was add ons.

19 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

moderate the second life subreddit (where your blog is actually one of the very few we do the flair for automatically and don't instantly spamtrap, you're welcome I guess

 

Thank you that is very kind of you, I have not visited the reddit group for a long time, but I do appreciate it. 

11 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

EDIT : And what is it with people writing half a rant, posting and then editing in more  .. don't do it.

I added gallery etc, because you mentioned other modes of showcasing, I realised that I wanted to address that, edit adding is a function we are allowed to use, there are no character limits that was a post the other day or mentioned, my rants can get much longer   

I am still not sure why you are going at this, why it went to group and then forum at all, maybe it is a looking out for the integrity kind of thing, and I commend anyone wanting to do that, but this is probably the first time in many SL years where things are going along so smoothly, community driven, amazing concepts, someone built their home into a post office which is just amazing. So I guess your rocking the boat splashed us in the face and so on. 

I am not trying to be 'angry' did it make me angry, a little bit, but it really did keep reading like an attention grab, my mistake there it did get cynical. My friends are having the time of their lives right now, we spent hours laughing like crazy people yesterday fixing Ashias boathouse, it was something that has been missing from SL for many of us for a long time, it felt rough to have it poked at. 

@Chic Aeon I always have hovertips on, I forget that it is an option being so used to it just being there, when it is turned off because of taping something etc, when I forget to turn it back on I cannot function   how people do without it is right up there with those that turn off names,  I just cannot even, for a start I would get more confused as to which is me and which is Whimsy even without looking the same lol

[Sasy Scarborough]

22 minutes ago, kiramanell said:

Also, while I get you wanted to check her out -- and you have every right to, of course -- it also does feel a bit like crossing a line. Or, let me put it this way, it's not something I (would) do. I just read what ppl have to say here, without some sort of 'background check'. But I get that ppl do things differently.

I do not tend to do that either, not forum profiles unless i end up clicking the wrong part, but it was more to see why there were already earlier comments about selling, I did not go past the marketplace link, obviously as pointed out

[kiramanell]

Just now, Sasy Scarborough said:

I do not tend to do that either, not forum profiles unless i end up clicking the wrong part, but it was more to see why there were already earlier comments about selling, I did not go past the marketplace link, obviously as pointed out

 

It's all good.  Looks like you guys made up already? (again a good reason for me not to have even said anything). Anyway, just glad this de-escalated as quickly as it did.

[kiramanell]

23 minutes ago, Kitten Kaos said:

  I think some clarification from LL may be useful here  before bad feelings set in.  FWIW, I edited the Happenings site to say specifically non commercial events and I called it Happenings as I wanted to emphasize the community aspect of gatherings- ie. a house party with someone spinning is not the same thing, to my mind , at all as a club with tip jars. And yes, lines get blurry and people find work arounds, but that's all the more reason for clarity from LL.

 

 

 

Would actually be nice of a Linden commented on this, at some point. I'm not sure they're usually doing that in the same thread, but maybe they could draft a 'sticky' on updated policies (and rewrite some of the old stuff too, like no larger than 10m3 prims, LOL, as some of these old docs are glaringly apparent in need of an overhaul).

[Chic Aeon]

34 minutes ago, Sasy Scarborough said:

I always have hovertips on, I forget that it is an option being so used to it just being there, when it is turned off because of taping something etc, when I forget to turn it back on I cannot function   how people do without it is right up there with those that turn off names,  I just cannot even, for a start I would get more confused as to which is me and which is Whimsy even without looking the same lol

 

Well "I" am one of those names always off gals.  I like my screen EMPTY like a canvas. Those names spoil the view for me. I have turned them on when teaching classes, but most of the time I am in IM or I know the folks I am chatting with LOL.   

 

[Sasy Scarborough]

11 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

 

Well "I" am one of those names always off gals.  I like my screen EMPTY like a canvas. Those names spoil the view for me. I have turned them on when teaching classes, but most of the time I am in IM or I know the folks I am chatting with LOL.   

 

You being one does not shock me but  that aside lol with all the features we have to know who is where, when, how on the sim, online, in our range etc, it is funny to still have them, it is one of those dependent on things, but I am not giving them up...it also means I know what groups are active, what groups are active on friends. If I go somewhere and suddenly all day I am seeing the group active of one group on many people, something may be going on, I could miss a Sale Chic, you would not want me to miss out on a Sale would you. 

Edit : I have my names set higher than the avatar so it is about a full metre above the head.

Edited May 19, 2019 by Sasy Scarborough

[Coffee Pancake]

1 minute ago, Sasy Scarborough said:

I only went to see what you create, it is why I also said some of your income because looking up what your part in the game was was all I was looking for, someone had mentioned competitor, so in what way was all I was interested in, I was actually surprised to find it was add ons.

Running a store was one of the main things I used to do in SL years ago, and I did make a solid second income from it .. but those days are long past, the years pass, other things happen, life, depression. I've never stopped making things in or for SL, but it's only the last few weeks that I've been motivated to put something in a box for others to buy. My last few years of SL stuff hasn't made it past personal use and everyone keeps yelling at me to do the store thing again so .. ya.

I'm not going to be cashing out anytime soon, but I just might just get out of the next arcade with a new outfit (if anyone cares to make something for Belleza, pretty please), really it's just super awesome to actually finish something for once and then see it in use, if for nothing else than as a psychological boost.

1 minute ago, Sasy Scarborough said:

I am still not sure why you are going at this, why it went to group and then forum at all, maybe it is a looking out for the integrity kind of thing, and I commend anyone wanting to do that, but this is probably the first time in many SL years where things are going along so smoothly, community driven, amazing concepts, someone built their home into a post office which is just amazing. So I guess your rocking the boat splashed us in the face and so on. 

I know right, Patch and co nailed it.

My motivation for this isn't to name and shame (the fact we all know who the-stores-who-shall-not-be-named is kinda a testament to their skill at marketing), but to get some clarification either for or against and get some discussion, people in the group seemed to all come out in favor, yet my reading of the rules isn't so permissive, it seemed worth a thread, I opened with a meme on purpose.

1 minute ago, Sasy Scarborough said:

I am not trying to be 'angry' did it make me angry, a little bit,

I do that, sorry. Brick to the face sometimes. 

1 minute ago, Sasy Scarborough said:

but it really did keep reading like an attention grab, my mistake there it did get cynical. My friends are having the time of their lives right now, we spent hours laughing like crazy people yesterday fixing Ashias boathouse, it was something that has been missing from SL for many of us for a long time, it felt rough to have it poked at. 

I totally agree, SL is back and everything feels on the up.

Personally .. "It's ok till the moment it's not ok" is not really good enough, if it gets to that point then it will be too late to accomplish anything meaningful. LL will do what they always do. Sit on the sidelines and hope 'it' goes away, and then just drop the hammer when someone inevitably takes their silence to mean "do literally anything you like, and by anything we mean everything, even that" and it wont affect a couple of opportunistic brands with some gorilla marketing.

It's also not like the-stores-who-shall-not-be-named are going to suffer at this point, if anything there is a lesson for all merchants here.

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

I just hope that if the ones who have the lovely model homes are told to stop, then all the creators who "subtly" showcase their items in these forums have to stop as well. Do I object to either activity? No, I do not. But I don't like hypocrisy.

If you make add-ons for the homes, and you show photos here, and let us know, one way or another, that you made them and that they are for sale... well, I hope you aren't complaining about the model homes, that's all.

[Jeston]

Chirp chirp chirp,  sqwaaak.

[Sasy Scarborough]

I rarely create in SL anymore to sell something, I find that unless inspired I don't get there...I created something very basic to give a finish to Ashias houseboat...then strutted around like I built the Taj Mahal, there is an incredible rush from creating something, I need to do it more. I hope everyone gets inspired to do more of it too. I myself wanted some clear lines in the sand about something yesterday. I think that mentions in threads by Lindens get lost, so the wiki or actual posts are the go to, but as pointed out not often updated...however wiki can be edited by us also. Maybe there needs to be a clearer marked as up to date FAQ if not already somewhere - each time I say things like that, someone links to them, covering myself this time😁

 

[Gabriele Graves]

Of course it is advertising, it is as plain as the noses on our faces.

However, every item placed in a Linden Home by anyone is also an advert for its creator in essence.  If we are saying that it is not OK because the creator put them down but it is OK for another to put those same items down then all that will happen is that those creators will use the homes of alts to do exactly the same and call it a "tribute" or "fan" decorated home.  I don't think LL are oblivious to this, nor do I think they object to it.  It's not feasible to draw a clear line down everything in life and one could argue that showcasing like this helps other residents see the some of the best that can be achieved.

Remember that for in all other SL dealings, LL treats an alt account no different from different RL people.  I would bet their stance is similar to the issue of people obtaining more than one Linden Home via alts.  Those alt accounts have a right to a Linden Home just like any other premium member.

Of course, I expect that LL would prefer it if creators didn't obtain Linden Homes solely to advertise (on their main or alts) and would prefer them to use them as regular premium members would.  Discerning intention is so difficult at times though.  If you think about it just a little further how could some prominent creators even put any of their own creations down for genuine reasons and it not be considered advertising?  Should they have less rights than other residents?  Should they be forced to only use items from other people or forced only to use a non-prominent account to enjoy a Linden Home?  The longer you ponder this, the more ridiculous it becomes.

If the items had been placed for sale then commerce would be taking place and the whole thing would be different but as it is, it is just a breeze in a dinkie cup.
 

Edited May 19, 2019 by Gabriele Graves

[ananoelle]

Well Thank You, Ladies. Ive now seen all three of your add on packs. (Accidental marketing?) I only saw Chic on the mp just last night as I was pre planning. Now I've seen Blush and Coffees... 1 of you will def get some of my money. 

[Marth Coberts]

Can further confirm , 'open houses' are fine according to the Covenant.

 

People can allows or disallow anyone onto their parcel at will (with a security orb now) meaning they can allow people to come and go or keep it as a sort of private spot. There's also the following line: "*Residents may decorate the interior of their house to their liking. The exterior should always remain in theme out of consideration for your neighbors."

Only thing people can't do is show their homes in search, hence the group chat landmarks are more of an informal "You can come into my house if you want."

 

I can also confirm that the Knowledge Base concerning Linden Homes are not entirely outdated, but rather incomplete: There's one mention of not being able to modify the home.. for a 512m2  parcel size.

 

IMO, after reading the rest of the thread, sounds like a bit of buttmad they ain't using your stuff.

[kiramanell]

35 minutes ago, Marth Coberts said:

I can also confirm that the Knowledge Base concerning Linden Homes are not entirely outdated, but rather incomplete: There's one mention of not being able to modify the home.. for a 512m2  parcel size.

 

Why, that. And the cra... erm, old, homes being still listed for 117 prims (they are, in fact, good for 175 prims: half that of the newer homes).

Edited May 19, 2019 by kiramanell

[Marianne Little]

This forum need an option to ignore threads started by another user, not only posts.

[Cam Mode]

I have to ask WHY was this thread started, remembered how anti Linden the OP was in the community /group chat this morning and just wish they would stop trying to pull down the people who are having no harm, no foul fun in our new play land.

When I get a place will just use ONE CREATOR put the house  on the home tour and people can guess, alt? or fan? alt? fan?

Yes Marianne, I was looking for the doorstop of doom button myself. 

 

 

 

Edited May 19, 2019 by Cam Mode
added link

[Cam Mode]

8 hours ago, Fox Wijaya said:

but the total wild grow(th) of posts with unrealistic wishes, promoted wild phantasies, asking for refunds, complaints about the amount of houses, and now advertisements....

 

In my world, we call this "Tuesday."   Pulls chair closer, tell me about the phantasies, I have a refund coming ...... ;p.

[Fox Wijaya]

32 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:

This forum need an option to ignore threads started by another user, not only posts.

it has...don't click it

[LittleMe Jewell]

Someone made a comment that struck me as very valid.  If all of the objects in a home are created by the home owner and the home is not actually being lived in, but is there simply to be a model / show home, then IMO that is advertising.

Whereas all the many folks that have said their house is open to anyone that wants to come look and there house has stuff by other creators (even if there is also stuff created by the home owner), then it isn't blatant advertising.

[Marianne Little]

40 minutes ago, Fox Wijaya said:

it has...don't click it

She must have started some threads worth reading. Mustn't she?

I didn't even put Pep on ignore, in the old days.

Maybe I'm getting less patient with some people.

[Odaks]

9 hours ago, Gryphon Ronas said:

Commerce is buying and selling.

"Commerce" is actually a rather all-embracing word, covering the activities involved with the process of buying and selling. I would bet my bottom dollar that the lawyers , in a court of law, would have no difficulty whatsoever establishing that "commerce" includes advertising of a deliberate nature.

[KasimiraMathilde]

Okay, I'm probably missing the whole point here, but I still would like to offer this. I am glad for those people that have decorated their homes and allowed us to visit,  to get ideas of how to decorate on few prims. I do believe that was the true intention of those that said come take a look. It inspired me to take time to go through many stores  to find low prim items that were not only functionable, but lovely to look at as well.  I am sure there are those that may have also abused it to a point. but as long as they don't have a sign outside their door that says ( Shop @ ***** ) then it's not in your face advertising. I have alot of one store, but it's because it's what works for me. Everyone's taste are not the same. But I would not say they are the only great place to visit or shop at.