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CoffeeDujour

Show homes are prohibited adverts ....

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5 minutes ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

I still don't understand the purpose of this thread other than to name and shame while being very careful not to actually type a name. If there is an infraction, the way to address it is in world, either via IM or notecard or AR. Is this just an attempt to shed a bad light on the homeowner(s)? It seems a bit petty, to be honest. 

 

16 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

it's public knowledge which homes are Branded show homes

Yes, exactly. And she readily admits that everyone knows who she is naming and shaming here!!

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think it's time LL should step in a bit and clean up the mess that's made, of course it's a great project, but the total wild grow of posts with unrealistic wishes, promoted wild phantasies, asking for refunds, complaints about the amount of houses, and now advertisements....

put a stop on complaining, whining, suggestions, and the ongoing demands how people should make their living on the new continents.
First one who starts a thread again about one of these subjects should be punished with a barefoot trip around the whole grid.

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1 minute ago, Fox Wijaya said:

put a stop on complaining, whining, suggestions, and the ongoing demands how people should make their living on the new continents.

The forums would then be a ghost town! lol

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Just now, Blush Bravin said:

These homes have been set up as model homes. When you go house shopping and go to model homes .. what is getting sold is the house .. not the furniture. These homes have been set up as model homes showcasing what can be done with a Linden Home. Remember in the early days of the preview some were saying that the homes were too small and that you couldn't even get a bed into one of the rooms. These creators that you are casting shade on have actually done a service to Linden Lab and the project. They have also provided those of us who love to see how people set up their homes and enjoyable experience. 

 

And, far as I understood, you're one of the first LL homes addon content-creators, right? Allow me to express how much I love that initiative! ❤️

Also, not too wax too legalese here, but while we're at it, I think a beautiful home is not an advert, in terms of the Covenant. Rather, ere a 'meta' ad, if you will, much like the entirety of Bellisseria is an 'ad' for Second Life.

As for IKEA, I often visit there, and they have like this mini-homes on display: fully furnished, fully functional, real houses, only like 5x5m in size! And they have me gasping at the ingenuity of their design! As in: I can't believe how talented their interior designers are, to create these incredibly small homes that, almost magically, don't feel small at all! It really takes incredibly genius to come up with those! Tl;dr: if you, or any other addon creator, put your own genius on display, for me to admire, then I welcome you all with open arms! :)

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I think a clarification of the rules surround commercial (and specifically advertising) activity on Bellisseria is in order, does the Linden Homes KB article's prohibition apply as stated, or does the omission of that line from the land covenant mean it is implicitly allowed?

Ping @Patch Linden  @Jeremy Linden

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1 minute ago, kiramanell said:

And, far as I understood, you're one of the first LL homes addon content-creators, right? Allow me to express how much I love that initiative! ❤️

Very kind of you to say, but I'm not. There have been creators doing add-ons for the old homes for a long, long time. So, it's not new, and I'm nothing special. I just get very excited about what Patch and the Moles were building so I got vocal about it. 

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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, CoffeeDujour said:

I think a clarification of the rules surround commercial (and specifically advertising) activity on Bellisseria is in order, does the Linden Homes KB article's prohibition apply as stated, or does the omission of that line from the land covenant mean it is implicitly allowed?

Ping @Patch Linden  @Jeremy Linden

And while we are at it, let's have some clarification as to what exactly constitutes "advertising". I think that is the REAL issue here. 

ETA: I still think doing this in world would have been way more appropriate. 

Edited by Sylvia Tamalyn
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2 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

Very kind of you to say, but I'm not. There have been creators doing add-ons for the old homes for a long, long time. So, it's not new, and I'm nothing special. I just get very excited about what Patch and the Moles were building so I got vocal about it. 

 

Hehe, just goes to show how much I'm behind the times, as I didn't even know addon packs existed for the older LL homes too. :) 

Oh, and I wouldn't say you're 'nothing special': even if you're not making addon packs, I love your contributions here!

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LL knows about the house. The creator invited people to see it right here on the forums with SLURL to it. If it is still standing the way it is, I assume they are just fine with it. Nothing was hidden by the creator. If it bothers anyone that bad, do an AR on it and let LL decide but i doubt that's the point.  My guess is this thread was simply created to create discussion and not really to toss a creator under the bus. (looking at the initial picture that was posted here).

 

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Posted (edited)

I think my eyes just rolled into the back of my head.

LOL at the need to create an entire forum posting about this, after the majority of group chat inworld disagreed with you.

---

37 minutes ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

ETA: I still think doing this in world would have been way more appropriate. 

Oh she did. When people asked for the landmarks to the homes, she made this a thing in chat.

Clearly she came here for further validation, which it seems again, she didn't get.

Edited by Witchcrafts
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5 minutes ago, Witchcrafts said:

I think my eyes just rolled into the back of my head.

LOL at the need to create an entire forum posting about this, after the majority of group chat inworld disagreed with you.

I did not know this had already been run by the masses in world! lol

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There is more than one show home and other creators who may want / be planning to do similar in the future. Clarity on the rules now is in everyone's interests.

As I stated early on, I think the reaction would be little different if a show home opened up next door to you and was stocked to the gills with one brands hardcore naughty toys attracting a steady stream of "window shoppers" .. because the rules do state "Residents may decorate the interior of their house to their liking".

5 minutes ago, Witchcrafts said:

LOL at the need to create an entire forum posting about this, when the majority of group chat disagreed with you.

Three people including yourself  in a group of 700 does not the majority make.

Also, as Blush and you are also store owners, I would think you want to know the rules before potentially wasting a significant amount of time on a project relating to your business?

I know I would.

2 minutes ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

I did not know this had already been run by the masses in world! lol

The joys of upsetting someone so much they felt the need to start a brigade .. as though a question about Linden rules could be "won" on the forums.

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9 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

Also, as Blush and you are also store owners, I would think you want to know the rules before potentially wasting a significant amount of time on a project relating to your business?

I don't have any plans to do an open house. 

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18 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

I don't have any plans to do an open house. 

 

And even if you did it is nothing more than showing people what you have done with your house.    And there is nothing wrong with that.  And nothing wrong with the show homes either.  

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49 minutes ago, Witchcrafts said:

Oh she did. When people asked for the landmarks to the homes, she made this a thing in chat.

Clearly she came here for further validation, which it seems again, she didn't get.

I'm glad I was able to coax your first post on forums since 2014, great to have you here and all that .. but please, don't edit your post after someone has replied.

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7 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

As I stated early on, I think the reaction would be little different if a show home opened up next door to you

You said similar to me, when I posted The Drowned Mouse arcade in group chat: that you "wouldn't want to live next door to that, or even on the same sim". The actual neighbors, however, have had no complaints. Several of them have popped over to play games and enjoy a chat by the pool.

My own house is a few doors down from one of the open houses you are referring to, and the through traffic going to and from that open house was the main reason I eventually chose to stay in that location. My other location, which I originally found prettier, soon grew still and dead. The human interaction at the busier location brought me around to loving a location that originally didn't interest me.

The whole appeal of Bellisseria, for me, is the people. I, like many others, have other places I can retreat to when I want a silent, low traffic, low lag hidey hole. Bellisseria isn't that. It is a tightly packed, highly populated, sardine can of a continent... and that brings me so much joy! People passing means things happening, conversations starting, unexpected roleplay, and all the little moments that make sl fun. In my opinion, all of these open-door, user-run locations add to that feeling of community, not detract from it. After the project is finished and the Lindens and Moles have moved on, it will be the onus of the residents to keep community alive.

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Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, Teager said:

You said similar to me, when I posted The Drowned Mouse arcade in group chat: that you "wouldn't want to live next door to that, or even on the same sim". The actual neighbors, however, have had no complaints. Several of them have popped over to play games and enjoy a chat by the pool.

I qualified that with "if successful" .. from personal experience it's pretty horrible to be on a region with or that borders a popular club, especially one that's running from a 1024sqm parcel in the corner of the region and turning the whole place into treacle .. that's mainlands great curse.

Discussion about rules is less about 'not in my back yard' and more about having the discussion, if the rules need to be changed to encompass and encourage things like light commercial activities or social clubs then it has to happen here. Likewise, if there are rules, they need to be, and be seen to be, applied evenly.

I thought the initial post with a "change my mind" meme would have at least hinted at that...

Who knows, we might get some guidelines and tweaks from LL, we might get better and more capable social spaces, or even land as part of the continent set up specifically for such things. The only part of this whole adventure that been clear from the start is that LL had no idea what was going to happen when they pushed the button.

If we're busying making workarounds (like the new independent events website for Bellisseria, because event posting is a no) and technical justifications for things people clearly want then maybe that could be used to guide actual output from LL while they both seem to be getting it right and paying attention.

 

Edited by CoffeeDujour
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Wow at the very thought of this thread.

Firstly everything in Second Life is a walking, talking, static, rezzed advertisement for its creator, whether it is by a sign, group tag, looking at edit, inspect or using a handy What is she wearing tool. Whimsy stopped blogging for a while and as long as she went out looking fabulous considered herself a 3d Blogger because if people liked how she looked it was possible to recreate it if she walked slow enough, funny story but also true, every time we go anywhere in Second Life the people that shop for anything will inspect something, something will catch their eye etc.

As far as someone setting up their space to showcase their own goods - did you also notice they had featured someone else's goods in doing so because it was relevant  -  but to show straight off the mark how much you could do with a Linden Home is probably why so many flocked, because in the past releases of the older style you could do very little, even with mesh. Someone seeing that they owned or could own those items was a starting point, not only the items but the styling of the home.

As a Blogger many of us believe that it is not only to replicate a look, but to get a sense of what you can do with your own items, things you have or have seen and then realise that wow that pencil skirt looks amazing with that top, I would have never thought of that combo, and off you go. The same with piling some books on a chair with a hat resting on top can be something that you finally can use some random gacha item to emulate.

Whimsy and I helped Ashia do some things with her build yesterday. I even made some mesh trim for her and then on seeing her bed and her love of rugs suggested that a rug that I had made with Whimsy in the past may actually be the perfect combo...was I selling it, no,  did I even for one moment think of it as advertising, nope, it just worked. If she opens her home (which technically is open she forgot to close the doors) will I be expecting rug sales, nope. 

A store in question did nothing wrong, as Blush pointed out the rules are for the land they are written for, not for the overall. The Lindens have adapted on the fly for these regions, they added texture packs, they are listening to the wants of the people, they even set up a sub forum and so on, things are never as anyone can expect because this is Second Life. Did we expect that day 2 there would be a murder house, or that people would even imagine opening up their homes to the public ? Whimsy has a kiosk of vending machines in the front of hers , is that advertising for the creator of those machines, yes of course it is, so is everything in her home and outside of it such as plants, a bike, a swimming pool. So many people are shopping off of other peoples already set up spaces. I myself saw the cutest dog on someones balcony and looked in my inventory and sure enough I owned four (gachas) never unpacked.

There are some people in SL that are fans of particular brands, and have all of their items - shocking I know - those old enough may remember that back then some people only wore one skin for five years and only bought hair from one store O M G. So imagine if you will one person that has bought the kitchen, living room and bedroom all from the same creator, and that creator is so amazing that all the decor and little design pieces are also included, that could actually mean there are houses out there, brace yourself.... that are filled with only one brand, and they may actually add a sign, and may open the doors and join in on the tours for people to look at their homes. You could hack LL and find that not only are they not alts of a creator but reside on the furthest away country from said creator, that would be so disappointing I am sure. So if there are people out there like that, that love what they have spent money on, and love what they have done with those pieces, and want to feature them according to you cannot do so, because if all one store, then it must be advertising, but what if like every other store it is more than one store, but they happened to have a booth next to each other at some event that one time, is it a conspiracy to advertise 😮

The houses by creators are just like any of the others, and them using them in such a way is not wrong it is incredibly smart. It gives people some kind of interaction with layout, it shows people that those creators are in the know of what is happening in Second Life. It shows people that that creator is a premium account holder and just like every other one, they are entitled to that home, and like anyone else that pays LL to be here, they can do with that what you will. Would it have been better to fill the house with other stores items, possibly...but this is again SL and someone or more would find a way to turn that into something ugly also. Pride in your work and the intelligence to showcase it in a respectful manner is something deserving of praise not a lynch mob. You do more damage to your own branding with taking your toys home than they could ever do with sharing theirs.

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Since we KNOW the covenant for the new homes has changed since the Expo and since we first moved in, I am going to paste the land covenant below for HISTORICAL REFERENCE.

Note that ANY SCRIPTED ITEM even if not for sale will have information on mouseover for folks that have their settings that way.

image.png.38e8cfa152ea2960597984277eb16229.png

 

While I personally think that the the "show homes" (I only know of two) that only use the items of one creators (the home owner's)  is a little "tacky", I don't see that it is against the COVENANT.

 

However, when you go to OK your home you see THIS screen which includes NUMBER 8 -- so it is questionable.

I haven't seen the list of "show homes" and I am not on the "Parade of Homes" although neighbors on both sides are LOL.  Presumably I am not on that show home list. 

I do believe that there is a subtle but important difference between creators that took a house to show off their items and creators that LIVE here and use items from other retailers as well as there own. This is just my take on the whole subject. 

IF Linden Lab wants to ban the show houses as being against the covenant, I am sure they will and those that feel it is wrong have the ability to complain via AR. 

image.png.6d6124734a52790381b4a1c28f75b7b3.png

 

 

Welcome to Linden Homes for Premium account holders. Linden Homes is a residential community, located on the Bellisseria continent, owned and managed by Linden Lab. 

The purpose of Linden Homes is to provide an opportunity for Premium account Residents of the Second Life virtual world to quickly own a home and belong to a community. Linden Homes are available to Premium account holders with 1024m2 of available tier. Premium accounts are provided 1024m2 available tier at no cost.

As a Premium Account holder, you are eligible for live chat and ticket support from our Support Portal. If you need support for your Linden Home:

    1. Go to https://support.secondlife.com/ and submit a ticket.
    2. Select the "Land and Region" ticket type.
    3. Under the resulting dropdown, select "Linden Homes".

Linden Homes is governed by this Covenant, Linden Home Terms and Conditions, Terms of Service (TOS), and Community Standards (CS): http://secondlife.com/corporate/tos.php


== Linden Home Restrictions ==

Linden Home has unique restrictions in addition to those outlined in the Linden Home Terms and Conditions. By accepting a Linden Home, you agree to additional restrictions as follows:

  *Land cannot be terraformed, sold, deeded to group, joined, or divided. Land can only be set to group.
  *Land cannot contain temp-rezzers, or individual prims beyond the allocated size of the Second Life Viewer build tools. (64,64,64).
  *Skyboxes are only allowed above 2000m.
  *Your Linden Home may not be removed, modified, exchanged, set or deeded to group, or transferred. 
  *Residents must use one of the houses provided. Modification of the house itself beyond what is built into the controls is not possible. Additional buildings or structures are allowed as long as they are in theme and meet the height restrictions.
  *Privacy walls or fences should match the theme and extend no more than 4m above ground level. All other structures should not extend higher than 15m above ground level or sea level, whichever is higher.
  *Linden Homes should be kept presentable and in-theme to their unique areas.
  *Linden Homes can not be used as sandboxes.
  *Linden Homes do not include traffic tracking.
  *Linden Homes can not be shown in search.
  *Ownership is limited to one Linden Home per Premium Account.
  *Changes cannot be made to roads, paths, plants, trees, rocks and other landscaping. Trees or other objects that overhang into parcels are meant to do so. They cannot be moved or removed.
  *Objects that extend outside of your parcel can be returned without warning or notice. 
  *Residents may decorate the interior of their house to their liking. The exterior should always remain in theme out of consideration for your neighbors.
  *Linden Home regions are Moderate rated regions. Please see the http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Adult_Content_FAQ regarding adult content and behavior. 
  *Using prims or objects on parcels meant as advertisements on the world map is not allowed.
  *Lights or particles on your parcel should not extend into your neighbors parcels or houses.
  *“Off region” decorations extending from your parcel are not allowed.
  *Public space outside your parcel lines is just that… public space. Do not extend objects outside of your parcel in a way that will block, wall off, or “claim” public areas for yourself to the exclusion of other residents.


== Security ==

  *Linden Homes do not have the ability to set your parcel access to group access only (which creates ban lines for everyone else). You can still eject and ban people by name.
  *Security orbs are only allowed if they comply with the following restrictions:
     -Minimum of 15 seconds warning time (no shorter)
     -Eject from parcel only (not teleport them home)
     -Effective range cannot include the airspace between 400m and 2000m (to allow for people to fly overhead but not in the airspace where skyboxes are allowed)

If you are uncertain, there is a free security system provided in the Linden Homes Content Pack. It does not have the ability to be set in a manner that does not comply with these restrictions. Click on the house controller outside of your parcel (the one used for changing house models) to get the most current content pack sent to you.


== Linden Home Benefits ==

  *Use your Premium account's 1024m2 included land tier allocation towards your Linden Home.
  *Ready-to-move-in themed home on a 512m2 or 1024m2 parcel.
  *Select your own Linden Home theme.
  *Decorate your home with furnishings.
  *Invite your friends to your home.
  *Meet your neighbors and make friends.
  *1024m2 parcel Linden Homes are allocated 351 Land Impact.
  *Set Home to here at your Linden Home location. (World menu > Set Home to Here.)
  *Set land to group.


== Linden Home Etiquette ==

Living in a community includes courtesy towards your neighbors. Here are some guidelines for etiquette in Linden Home regions:

  *Use local chat say, rather than shout.
  *Adhere to the Maturity Rating for the Linden Home region you're located in. 
  *Respect your neighbors' privacy.
  *Review general Second Life etiquette suggestions and incorporate them into your Linden Home experience: http://bit.ly/sletiquette


== Help ==

The Second Life Knowledge Base (KB) includes many helpful articles for beginning landowners and Residents new to the Second Life virtual world. Check it out:

     » https://community.secondlife.com/knowledgebase/

This covenant is subject to change.


We hope you enjoy your new Linden Home!
 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Sasy Scarborough said:

Firstly everything in Second Life is a walking, talking, static, rezzed advertisement for its creator,

Absolutely .. but that's not quite the same. It might seem like a subtle and almost trivial distinction to some (and notably in this thread, it's store owners and Flickr posters & now a blogger who seem to have the strongest opinions as to why this distinction is irrelevant), but it is a different thing nonetheless. 

If it's ok for a show home for housewares to slide under the radar, then by the same liberties you can have a show home for anything. There are lines and they should be defined and adhered to.

Keep in mind this discussion is about Bellisseria, essentially a gated residential community, not the wider grid in general where literally anything can and does happen.

 

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

& now a blogger

I love when people label me, I wear many hats in Second Life, Blogging is not the first or the only one, but thank you for that, it is rare to actually meet anyone that does not do something in Second Life other than exist, so you are pretty much shooting fish in a barrel.

I bothered to look you up, because now you have labelled me I wanted to know who and what you were, what you are is an add on creator for Linden Homes, that is it, all you have listed on marketplace. So essentially unless you have an inworld store with other items, some of your SL income is derived from the success of the community that you create for. Someone mentioned that you were even sharing this tirade in the groups, again your own wading pool. 

So all that this does for me now, is show that you used everything here as a marketing tool yourself,  you are one of those that buy into the whole no publicity is bad publicity way of thinking. Well played, I looked you up, I opened your marketplace, I saw things you have for sale and I closed it, had this been a different thread, I would have guided others to purchase, not as a Blogger but as a Second Life Resident that wants to help people find great things. 

Did you get enough attention ? 

13 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

Keep in mind this discussion is about Bellisseria, essentially a gated residential community, not the wider grid in general where literally anything can and does happen.

It is not a gated community at all, anyone can live there if they are premium and if they are not premium there is nothing stopping them from living with someone who is. Gated communities also do not let people visit without a connection to someone in the community, which again this is not the case in these regions, anyone can teleport in and stay as long as they like as long as they do so respectfully. 

 

 

If someone wants to use their space as a Gallery to showcase their work and that art is available somewhere else,  great, no problem with it, it is up to me to TP to buy or not, we are grownups we know when selling is thrust upon us, nothing I have seen is that. Every time I go shopping and the store being used is a nice commercial build I spend at least 10 minutes ooooing and ahhhing over it and forget what I am actually in the store for. Again nothing wrong with that, the fact SL is still here and still awesome is that we do keep the motors oiled by making it easy to find content that enriches our time here. If someone wants to rez shelves and display their wares go for it, again it is a choice at the gate if you want to enter or not. It not being a gated community and all.

Edited by Sasy Scarborough
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15 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

Since we KNOW the covenant for the new homes has changed since the Expo and since we first moved in, I am going to paste the land covenant below for HISTORICAL REFERENCE.

Note that ANY SCRIPTED ITEM even if not for sale will have information on mouseover for folks that have their settings that way.

image.png.6d6124734a52790381b4a1c28f75b7b3.png

Just for fun... Looking at #8, it specifically says "Commerce"

Commerce is buying and selling.

Advertising is a form of communication.  The only rule I have seen about advertising is that you can't exploit the world map for advertising purposes.

(I don't have a dog in the fight, and none of it really matters to me one way or the other.)

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Just now, Gryphon Ronas said:

Just for fun... Looking at #8, it specifically says "Commerce"

Commerce is buying and selling.

Advertising is a form of communication.  The only rule I have seen about advertising is that you can't exploit the world map for advertising purposes.

(I don't have a dog in the fight, and none of it really matters to me one way or the other.)

 

But aren't 'classifieds' considered adverts?!

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, Sasy Scarborough said:

I love when people label me,

You introduced yourself as such .. should have just taken that as a sign I'd read at least the first 3 paragraphs of your monster rambling post.

Quote

I bothered to look you up, because now you have labelled me I wanted to know who and what you were, what you are is an add on creator for Linden Homes, that is it,

Well then your research skills are fairly feeble, on my forum profile alone I mention that I work on the Catznip viewer and moderate the second life subreddit (where your blog is actually one of the very few we do the flair for automatically and don't instantly spamtrap, you're welcome I guess).

Very recently I made some decking and put up a store, Go me.

Quote

So all that this does for me now, is show that you used everything here as a marketing tool yourself,

That's very cynical .. exceptionally cynical in fact. 

Quote

you are one of those that buy into the whole no publicity is bad publicity way of thinking. Well played, I looked you up, I opened your marketplace, I saw things you have for sale and I closed it, had this been a different thread, I would have guided others to purchase, not as a Blogger but as a Second Life Resident that wants to help people find great things. 

You literally opened your post after the 2 paragraphs of preamble with " As a Blogger  

I mean you really did.

Quote

Did you get enough attention ? 

I didn't get a pony plastic rocket yet, so I guess not .. can you be less angry please?

Quote

It is not a gated community at all, anyone can live there if they are premium and if they are not premium there is nothing stopping them from living with someone who is. Gated communities also do not let people visit without a connection to someone in the community, which again this is not the case in these regions, anyone can teleport in and stay as long as they like as long as they do so respectfully. 

I guess not.

EDIT : And what is it with people writing half a rant, posting and then editing in more  .. don't do it.

Edited by CoffeeDujour

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2 minutes ago, kiramanell said:

 

But aren't 'classifieds' considered adverts?!

Ah, yes.  #6

But that really isn't a factor anyway. The system will not allow 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7 to be violated. You can't do it if you tried.

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