Charge for a DEMO?

[Reggie Warrhol]

I'm curious to know how many of you charge for a DEMO and why you charge for it.

More specifically why you charge for a DEMO. Do you only charge for one online or do you charge for them inworld as well?

 

[Lillith Hapmouche]

The two most common excuses I've heard are

a) so you can send them to others (mostly Marketplace)

b) the vendor system is preconfigured to charge at least 1L. If you're lucky, you'll get a refund.

If it doesn't do the latter, it's a good motivation for me to completely avoid that store.

I usually don't just grab a single demo, but multiple ones and that lost money would pile up quickly. Pretty pointless for me, as the demo will get trashed anyway in the end.

[Da5id Weatherwax]

I dont see the point in charging for a demo and I never did when my store was open, never will when I (eventually) relaunch it.. The whole point is that somebody gets to take it away and try it at their leisure in the hope that they will like it and come back and buy the product. Even a 1L charge for that is an unnecessary annoyance in a market as fragile as vapor. The tiniest things can turn off your customers and turn a profitable business into a losing proposition. Somebody will try a demo for a few minutes and then decide whether or not they want the product it is demonstrating. They might keep it but more likely they'll just trash it at that point whichever way their decision goes. Charging them anything at all for that convenience and for a few minutes use of something you hope they'll buy anyway - when it costs you nothing to provide - bespeaks something about the attitude of the store as well, something I'd rather not have said about any business I run.

[Alyona Su]

7 hours ago, Reggie Warrhol said:

I'm curious to know how many of you charge for a DEMO and why you charge for it.

More specifically why you charge for a DEMO. Do you only charge for one online or do you charge for them inworld as well?

 

Because of email spam. every sale, even for L$0 demos clogs email inbox. Also, it allows gifting - for your alt, for example. Easier than logging out of your current account then have to relog into your alternate account and find the item again just so you can get the demo.

Anything more than L$3 for a demo: no sale (I refuse), but L$1 to L$3 I believe if entirely fair. If you are too cheap to spend L$1 for a demo then you will not buy the retail version anyway, and if you do - then you'll be the dufus idiot who leaves a bad review (because you were too cheap the spend L$1 to know it wouldn't work for you).

[steeljane42]

6 hours ago, Alyona Su said:

If you are too cheap to spend L$1 for a demo then you will not buy the retail version anyway, and if you do - then you'll be the dufus idiot who leaves a bad review (because you were too cheap the spend L$1 to know it wouldn't work for you).

Assuming much? It's more of a principle, than being cheap. But yeah, given that 99%+ of demos I get going directly into the trash for various reasons (some are just bad, some don't fit the other clothes I had in mind and so on), I don't see why I should waste hundreds of L$ on demos when they cost nothing to make. Or, you know, some creators could even sell passes so the possible customers could access their regions to look at the rezzed buildings, landscape/decor, furniture and other not demo-able items.

I make some exceptions from time to time, but in general if a demo is non 0L$, then I just skip it. Thankfully it's mostly template resellers that try to charge for clothing demos these days, can't say I remember seeing many (or any) original creations' demos being sold for 1L$ or above.

Edited May 16, 2019 by steeljane42

[Alyona Su]

8 minutes ago, steeljane42 said:

Assuming much? It's more of a principle, than being cheap. But yeah, given that 99%+ of demos I get going directly into the trash for various reasons (some are just bad, some don't fit the other clothes I had in mind and so on), I don't see why I should waste hundreds of L$ on demos when they cost nothing to make. Or, you know, some creators could even sell passes so the possible customers could access their regions to look at the rezzed buildings, landscape/decor, furniture and other not demo-able items.

I make some exceptions from time to time, but in general if a demo is non 0L$, then I just skip it. Thankfully it's mostly template resellers that try to charge for clothing demos these days, can't say I remember seeing many (or any) original creations' demos being sold for 1L$ or above.

Then it's a principal about being cheap. Demos are designed to be trashed; they are demonstration versions for demonstration only. But just the same, if you're too cheap to spend L$1, by principal or otherwise, it's no skin lost off that creator's nose. There's nothing wrong with being cheap; it's a choice. That's what makes capitalism do great.

As for your last sentence, go shopping much? LOL

Edited May 16, 2019 by Alyona Su

[steeljane42]

4 minutes ago, Alyona Su said:

Then it's a principal about being cheap. Demos are designed to be trashed; they are demonstration versions for demonstration only. But just the same, if you're too cheap to spend L$1, by principal or otherwise, it's no skin lost off that creator's nose. There's nothing wrong with being cheap; it's a choice. That's what makes capitalism do great.

As for your last sentence, go shopping much? LOL

More like a principle to not feed the greedy people. It's their creations, of course, so they can charge w/e they want for the full versions and demos, but when someone is so desperate to try and squeeze a few hundred of L$ out of the free demos it just screams "greed" to me, so I most likely to avoid it and make business to someone else. Thankfully the stores I like a lot don't do that and for everything else there's plenty of alternative in most cases.

And yep, when in shopping mood I often grab a few hundred of demos at the time to see if I can mix and match a couple of new looks/outfits (I almost never go for full/ready to wear outfits). So while ~300-900L$ (with 1-3L$ per demo range) wouldn't be THAT bad, I'd rather spend them on something else.

[Rockridge Constantine]

As a consumer, yes please offer a demo.  Not offering a demo is a complete waste of my time. It seems almost essential to any possible purchase.  As far as cost is concerned,  I am ok with spending the 1L$ if the vendor gives it back.  It just makes good business practice and could lead to potential further purchases over time. tyvm

Edited May 17, 2019 by Rockridge Constantine

[Peony Sweetwater]

One or two other thoughts - most of my demos are free, but I do have a couple that are L$1 - sample lipstick or makeup that are a demo of the shape & texture of the full price multi-pack, but only in a single colour. They don't have the demo watermark, so can be worn as normal. So, yeah, they're a demo, but they're also a dollarbie gift.

One other reason I can think of for why people may charge for demos - I've noticed that L$0 listings don't tend to move up in the relevance rankings on the marketplace , whereas $1 listing will. L$1 demos will probably rank higher in relevance searches than their L$0 counterparts, and this could be seen to be a big advantage for some.

[Alyona Su]

1 hour ago, steeljane42 said:

More like a principle to not feed the greedy people. It's their creations, of course, so they can charge w/e they want for the full versions and demos, but when someone is so desperate to try and squeeze a few hundred of L$ out of the free demos it just screams "greed" to me, so I most likely to avoid it and make business to someone else. Thankfully the stores I like a lot don't do that and for everything else there's plenty of alternative in most cases.

And yep, when in shopping mood I often grab a few hundred of demos at the time to see if I can mix and match a couple of new looks/outfits (I almost never go for full/ready to wear outfits). So while ~300-900L$ (with 1-3L$ per demo range) wouldn't be THAT bad, I'd rather spend them on something else.

That is a good point. Making more than $10,000 off L$1 demos, cashing out and going on international vacations every month. 👍

That you think it's because of greed speaks volumes about your mindest. But nothing wrong with being a curmudgeon. 

Edited May 17, 2019 by Alyona Su

[Reggie Warrhol]

So it seems like its 50/50 on paying for a demo.

My own personal belief is that i am trying to make a sale, I won't charge people for a DEMO. I want them to know it will fit their avatar. 

9 hours ago, Alyona Su said:

Because of email spam. every sale, even for L$0 demos clogs email inbox. Also, it allows gifting - for your alt, for example. Easier than logging out of your current account then have to relog into your alternate account and find the item again just so you can get the demo.

I don't agree with that at all, but i can see where you are coming from.

 

[callistanull]

I'm fine with a small fee on a demo that's usable, like in the sample packs. I think it's unwise to charge if it's something unusable, though. You turn off a lot of customers, and yes, some WOULD have bought the item. I've passed up paid demos, picked up some free ones, and then bought one or two of those items.

Being able to send them as a gift is something I didn't think of, but I still would assume it loses more sales than the ease of gifting demos gains.

[Reggie Warrhol]

24 minutes ago, Peony Swee*****er said:

One other reason I can think of for why people may charge for demos - I've noticed that L$0 listings don't tend to move up in the relevance rankings on the marketplace , whereas $1 listing will. L$1 demos will probably rank higher in relevance searches than their L$0 counterparts, and this could be seen to be a big advantage for some.

I didn't know that about the relevance. Interesting, thanks for pointing that out

 

[bigmoe Whitfield]

a $1 demo means I can send it to my alt  to see if it works well on her.  since I do not keep funds on her, everything she gets is a gift.   so yes let them charge 1$L I'm fine with it. 

[steeljane42]

1 hour ago, Alyona Su said:

That is a good point. Making more than $10,000 off L$1 demos, cashing out and going on international vacations every month. 👍

That you think it's because of greed speaks volumes about your mindest. But nothing wrong with being a curmudgeon. 

Yeah, assuming much again. "Everyone who doesn't agree with my point of view must be curmudgeons, won't ever buy a full product and will rush to leave bad reviews if they actually do". That also speaks of your mindset, but not really related to this discussion, just like your comment, though.

P. S.

Sorting on MP for women's apparel with 0L$ returns 136165 results right now, 1L$ - 35768, 3k more with 2-3L$. Can't say I remember the in-world vendor that would have had paid demos and didn't refund right away, so I'd say it's pretty obvious that majority prefer 0L$ demos over paid ones.

[Peony Sweetwater]

4 hours ago, Reggie Warrhol said:

I didn't know that about the relevance. Interesting, thanks for pointing that out

 

I will add a caveat to my comment - it may different for demos. I was basing my comment more on a freebie dress I had on the marketplace. I had noticed that after a change in the way the marketplace ranked by relevance one of my freebies' sales dropped right down. I changed it to a dollarbie to see if the pricing made a difference, and the dress's ranking by relevance on my storefront increased significantly, as did the number of sales.

They may use a different algorithm for products that are linked as demos - I haven't tested that theory out.

[Lillith Hapmouche]

7 hours ago, Alyona Su said:

That you think it's because of greed speaks volumes about your mindest. But nothing wrong with being a curmudgeon. 

If that's your firm conviction, I might as well utter my observation: the majority of previously bought 1L demos showed quite unpretty flaws in the product. Bad rigging, too much clipping, ugly texture seams or being time limited on top of being plastered with demo signs. Such products led to a plain "trash the whole junk and never return to that store" decision and to the mental association that some "creators" really depend on the 1L income, because their faulty end product will not sell. Whose hypothesis is right or wrong now?

... not counting the 1L lipstick example. That's a cute dollarbie.

[Choji Kiko]

There is a considerable population of SL residents who require that other people send them demos to try out. Whether in-world or on the marketplace, being able to gift a demo is essential to their relationship -- perhaps it is a BDSM lifestyle thing or perhaps it is a bridesmaid thing or perhaps it is a runway thing... the fact is, it IS a thing, if not for you then for a lot of others, and charging 1L makes it possible on the marketplace.  Having to pay 1L for the privilege of gifting (as part of offering demos for sale) says more about the marketplace setup than about a merchant's greed.  Greed has nothing to do with it from a merchant's perspective.

[Coffee Pancake]

I think the reasoning behind not being able to gift L$0 items is to prevent someone using the SLM to grif.

Would have though if it was limited to friends only it would be ok, but that information may not be accessible in a timely manner to the marketplace backend.

Edited May 28, 2019 by CoffeeDujour

[Bitsy Buccaneer]

Having to pay for a demo means an extra step in the "Do I want to try this" process. If the demo is free, I'm more likely to just try it and get to the "Oh, yes, this makes the dopamine centers in my brain light up" . This might be days later, but if the demo is in my inventory, I'll get to it eventually.

If there's a charge, I'm more likely to look around a bit more before deciding, which means I'm less likely to pick up the demo. If nothing else, there's simply more time for something else to divert my attention, like needing to pee or a friend logging in or an interesting conversation floating by in a group chat. And because I'm on the fence about getting the demo, I'm less likely to return for it later.

[LittleMe Jewell]

On 5/16/2019 at 7:26 AM, Da5id Weatherwax said:

Charging them anything at all for that convenience and for a few minutes use of something you hope they'll buy anyway - when it costs you nothing to provide

There is still the texture upload charge - for the modified texture having some sort of Demo watermark on it.  Granted, not a large fee, but it isn't "nothing".

Except for the merchants that don't add a watermark and instead link some object to the Demo.  Then it isn't a new cost per Demo, just the cost of the textures when the linked object was originally created.

[Alyona Su]

1 hour ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

There is still the texture upload charge - for the modified texture having some sort of Demo watermark on it.  Granted, not a large fee, but it isn't "nothing".

Except for the merchants that don't add a watermark and instead link some object to the Demo.  Then it isn't a new cost per Demo, just the cost of the textures when the linked object was originally created.

Then there is the creator trying to make it convenient for the shopper: Shopping in one account, but want the demo for an alt: now you can gift it to the alt and also speeds up checkout (no bonus "0$ checkout" page). One could also add the email spam whenever a demo is sold (even for L$0) and so on. It's hardly about "greed" or anything else, so I cannot help myself but laugh at those with such strong principals that they refuse to spend the L$1. No matter, it's their loss if they miss out on something that could be a great buy.

[Da5id Weatherwax]

2 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

There is still the texture upload charge - for the modified texture having some sort of Demo watermark on it.  Granted, not a large fee, but it isn't "nothing".

Except for the merchants that don't add a watermark and instead link some object to the Demo.  Then it isn't a new cost per Demo, just the cost of the textures when the linked object was originally created.

 

25 minutes ago, Alyona Su said:

Then there is the creator trying to make it convenient for the shopper: Shopping in one account, but want the demo for an alt: now you can gift it to the alt and also speeds up checkout (no bonus "0$ checkout" page). One could also add the email spam whenever a demo is sold (even for L$0) and so on. It's hardly about "greed" or anything else, so I cannot help myself but laugh at those with such strong principals that they refuse to spend the L$1. No matter, it's their loss if they miss out on something that could be a great buy.

You're both thinking inside an outdated box, possibly because "that's the way you've always done it" and the fact that the reasons you cite are no longer showstoppers has passed you by. When clothing was mostly textures baked onto the system avatar, then yes you had to use a "demo texture" - now they are mostly objects, and rigged so no amount of tweaking by the end user is going to change their "fit". Stick a script in your demo that says "now modeling a DEMO of $ITEM by $STORE" in hovertext, then take the script out leaving the text and make the DEMO no-mod/copy/trans whatever the perms on the actual item are. Buyer can gift it to an alt simply by passing it to them, not usable as regular wear on account of the hovertext. If you really want to be obnoxious about it leave the script in and have it self-detach after being worn for three minutes. Sure they could evade that by only wearing it on a noscript parcel but that doesnt get rid of the hovertext  or let them drop their own script into a nomod item to get rid of it. Zero cost. If there's a cost to you in providing a demo of anything but old-style system clothing, its because you chose for there to be.

Edited May 28, 2019 by Da5id Weatherwax

[Coffee Pancake]

I wouldn't factor in the cost of a couple of extra textures as a  reason to charge for the demo, 10L is only 'technically' noting.

I really think it's an anti grif thing.

 

Resident X hates Resident Y.

X an alt logs into the SLM and sends Y hundreds of demos all day every day. X probably doesn't even need to log into the actual viewer ever, and with a bit of smarts can automate the entire mess. Would you like to receive hundreds of unsolicited demos a day, every day.

It would be almost impossible for LL to block X from using the SLM, the only solution would be to require PIOF before you can use the SLM.

[Sammy Huntsman]

I honestly don't like demos cluttering up my redelivery page in Casper or any other vending system. If you want a demo for your alt so bad, get on the alt, and go get it. Charging any amount of money, for something, with demo plastered all over it, with no textures on the demo, is absolutely absurd. It's like the whole, having to pay 1-10L for a gift from a store. Kinda seems stingy to me.