Mesh Heads

[KathyGables]

I am fast tracking my education in mesh bodies and have finally decided to put my dainty toe in the water of mesh heads.

I have decided CATWA is the way to go, not because of its quality (although that seems top-notch), but because of the number of companies that produce products for the CATWA head.

I see that there is a wide range of CATWA heads. I assume that any particular CATWA head is a basic mesh head accompanied by a shape and a skin overlay? Such that If I started with an Indian (i.e. India) head I could use the same head for an African head just by changing shapes and skin. Is that accurate or is there something in a CATWA head the limits where I take it if I want to change it? 

 

 

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

You might want to take a look at the Your Avatar forum (and post your question there as well). Lots of stuff about mesh heads in there. https://community.secondlife.com/forums/forum/318-your-avatar/

[Rhonda Huntress]

Every head has its own responses to the sliders and there is only so much each one can change.  Shapes made for one head will not usually work for another.  You need to pick the head that is closest to what you want and DEMO!!! to be sure you can change it to what you want.

In other words, no, your Indian head may not even look human if you wear a shape made for a different African head.

[Skell Dagger]

You can only change any brand of Bento mesh head (the 'Bento' bit is crucial) within certain limits, not just Catwa ones. Every mesh head starts out with a certain 'base shape' (as in the 3D mesh itself). That specific shape limits to a certain extent what you can do with the head. The example that I always give is in the jaw: if you want a pointed 'pixie' jaw then you won't be able to get that from a mesh head that starts out with a very square jaw. Always start out with a head that has a similar shape to the one you want to end up with. That's why Catwa's ads show not only examples of the heads with different skins on them, but also as a plain 'mannequin'-style untextured head, as do some other brands: so you can see the shape.

There is always a caveat, however, and that is that some mesh heads are more flexible than others. Their starter shape is 'generic' enough that it can be moulded into a lot of different looks (again, within reason). For Catwa heads those would be the first Bento heads released: Catya for the women and Daniel for the men. With time and effort you can mould most Bento heads into something that looks nowhere near similar to their starting shapes, but those 3d mesh limits will always be there, and with certain heads that have very obvious characteristics you will not be able to erase those characteristics fully.

In combination with shape edits, skins will also help, so demo demo demo!

Back to that Bento thing. Be careful, especially with Catwa heads, when you use the words "basic mesh head". Catwa sells three types of mesh head:

• basic (cannot be animated, can only be edited by stretching in six directions; seven if you count 'all over resize')
• frames animated (can only be edited by stretching, as with the basic heads, but these ones come with animation add-ons that you can purchase)
• bento heads (these can be edited using the shape sliders, come with 16 motion capture facial AOs as well as 24 full face animated expressions as standard, with an additional HUD C and many add-on packs of animations to fill it with)

So clearly you don't want to look at "basic mesh heads" at Catwa if you want to make shape adjustments to them.

Edited May 10, 2019 by Skell Dagger

[Linda Reddevil]

I used Catwa for years and loved my Catya head.  However, now I'm wearing Genus strong and there is a distinct difference in the quality.  I think Catwa may go the way of Slink eventually.  Anyway, you are correct that there is a lot made for the Catwa head but there's also a lot for Lelutka too and Genus is catching on as well.   You can also buy Omega versions of things which will work with all those heads too.    

[kali Wylder]

1 hour ago, Linda Reddevil said:

I used Catwa for years and loved my Catya head.  However, now I'm wearing Genus strong and there is a distinct difference in the quality.  I think Catwa may go the way of Slink eventually.  Anyway, you are correct that there is a lot made for the Catwa head but there's also a lot for Lelutka too and Genus is catching on as well.   You can also buy Omega versions of things which will work with all those heads too.    

Personally I like Lelutka's bento better than Catwa's.  I think the interface is easier.  but YMMV. I haven't tried the Genus.  After all the work I did to my Lelutka to get it to look like my old system head, I don't want to change now

[Bree Giffen]

The Catwa heads are not all the same mesh head with different skins and shapes applied. I've taken every Catwa head demo, applied the same skin, then shaped them into roughly the same shape using sliders and the differences become fairly apparent. I'd suggest you take a few hours to figure out exactly which head you want. You can do the same with other mesh head brands. 

[KathyGables]

Thanks to everyone to such quick replies and great comments.

Sylvia, - Thanks for suggestion of Your Avatar Forum

Skell,- Thanks for the details on bentp

kali, Thanks for info on Lulutka. Now I am leaning toward it.

[CheriColette]

I agree with @kali Wylder, recently I got my first mesh head and decided on the LeLutka, it was easy for me to find my way to get  the shape I wanted (close to my original). 

[Linda Reddevil]

I wanted so much to like Lelutka but every head I tried I ended up looking like a 13 year old girl. I gave up on it. When I bought the Genus classic, I still wasn't thrilled but when the Genus Strong came out, I was in love. The only thing I don't like is that you can't store skins, makeups etc. in the Hud like you can with Catwa. Oh and you can't wear multiple layers of things either. That's a bummer, but I'm willing to sacrifice it because that head is gorgeous. 

[Pussycat Catnap]

6 hours ago, KathyGables said:

I see that there is a wide range of CATWA heads. I assume that any particular CATWA head is a basic mesh head accompanied by a shape and a skin overlay? Such that If I started with an Indian (i.e. India) head I could use the same head for an African head just by changing shapes and skin. Is that accurate or is there something in a CATWA head the limits where I take it if I want to change it? 

That's going to be relative. Different heads will respond differently to being warped into a different look.

I just recently got a Catwa as opposed to Mayreal that I had had before. My opinion on this is that about half of their line is extremely strong-jawed and the designer doesn't favor the kind of cheeks you will see often among Asian and African people. But a few of the heads 'on the bottom rows' of the choices at the shop can do this.

That said there's more genetic diversity in a typical single African family than in the entire span of humanity off of the continent - so what "looks African" is amazingly wider in spectrum than anywhere else.

 

I recommend getting a demo of everything that has a demo, and setting up a pile of demo folders inside of which you put a copy of your shape, a copy of the head, and a copy of any needed side pieces like eyes (especially Catwa - it can't use normal eyes, unlike Mayreal - though with some work I did discover the position and size needed to put a prim into the eyesocket without is popping out on movement).

- It took me about 10 hours to find the head I wanted to buy. Fiddling with shapes, standing next to an alt that had a copy of my old shape and used the old head brand so I could compare, and so on...

You really want to spend the time messing with everything so you can be sure in your choice.

Also...

DON'T GIVE UP EARLY on a choice.

Just because you wear a head and it looks like a disaster with your current shape, doesn't mean it won't be the best thing you ever saw once you fix a few dial settings. First time I tried Catwa heads my jaw was almost inside my nose... But I just bought one of them... my jaw dials had just been tweaked for a look that only worked with the classic head I'd had...

Edited May 11, 2019 by Pussycat Catnap

[Maitimo]

On 5/10/2019 at 9:07 PM, KathyGables said:

I am fast tracking my education in mesh bodies and have finally decided to put my dainty toe in the water of mesh heads.

I have decided CATWA is the way to go, not because of its quality (although that seems top-notch), but because of the number of companies that produce products for the CATWA head.

I see that there is a wide range of CATWA heads. I assume that any particular CATWA head is a basic mesh head accompanied by a shape and a skin overlay? Such that If I started with an Indian (i.e. India) head I could use the same head for an African head just by changing shapes and skin. Is that accurate or is there something in a CATWA head the limits where I take it if I want to change it? 

Provided that you get a Bento head and not one of the cheaper Basic ones, yes. The Bento heads will respond to the shape sliders and the Basic ones don't.

However, they don't have anywhere near the same usable range of difference that you get with the classic system head, and moving the sliders too much in either direction will lead to horrible distortion.  Changing the skin will have a big effect but you can't really change the head to the extent that you're talking about here. 

That's why there are so many of them.

[KathyGables]

Hi Matty,

It is now my plan to get a fully functional LeLutka head. So when I went over to their store to find a candidate from which to purchase a DEMO , I was surprised there were only eight choices (at least that I could find). Since mesh heads have far less ability to change shape I expected many other  products of varying shapes to start from. Luckily I found a very good match to the head I want to create. Any thoughts on that?

[Gabriele Graves]

I have found some mesh heads change shape far more in response to slider changes than others.

I have been using Lelutka for a long time now and find the heads I use to be versatile and very responsive.  Due to this have been able to use the sliders to make quite different looks.  That doesn't mean of course that you can create any look but there is still quite a variety.

[CheriColette]

6 hours ago, KathyGables said:

It is now my plan to get a fully functional LeLutka head.

When you are looking at your 'original' shape>>>remove your hair and hair base and makeup (if you can) so you get a better idea of the shape. I took photos of her from the front and side angles to refer to later. I also wrote down all the 'slider' numbers so I had someplace to start when putting on the LL head. My new nose was a lot longer and I couldnt change that. 

Remember, you wont use the 'neck fix' as you will get head skin to match your body applier. The head I got included Glam Affair head skin, and you may want to update the Maitreya Body appliers for a better match, (if you have Maitreya body). (It includes skin for slink feet, too if you using them). You can get demo appliers for glam affair at the LL shop. 

Join the group before you buy anything as you get discount (with LeLutka products) and the group chat people are very helpful.

[Nextio]

@KathyGables , not sure if you bought a head yet, but here's some advice anyway.

If you have some skin appliers, you can usually try them with the head demos.  If you don't have any skin appliers, then get some skin demos and test them on all your head demos.  This usually works.

After that, test all the sliders on each head with different skins.  It may take a couple hours to test everything, but a few hours is worth the wait, otherwise you might make a purchase you'll regret later on.

Most skin stores have specific skins for specific heads, but they sometimes give you omega appliers that you can use on other heads.  Keep in mind, they won't work unless the head has omega built-in.  You can also buy the Omega relay for testing head demos, but it's around L$100 for each brand that requires it.  For example, you only need one omega relay for Catwa, one for Lelutka, etc.

Edited May 12, 2019 by Nextio

[KathyGables]

Hi Nextio,

I have a Lelutka DEMO that I will start playing with this afternoon. I have a couple of Maitreya Omega kits. Apparently there are different kinds of Omega kits for Maitreya so I am not sure how to use those (e.g. some Omega kits require they be installed the entire time while others let you remove them after you have used them). I will buy the appropriate Lelutka skin applier once I know which version to buy. Perhaps you can advise on both the type of Lelutka and Maitriyea kits I need.

 

 

 

 

[Nextio]

9 hours ago, KathyGables said:

Hi Nextio,

I have a Lelutka DEMO that I will start playing with this afternoon. I have a couple of Maitreya Omega kits. Apparently there are different kinds of Omega kits for Maitreya so I am not sure how to use those (e.g. some Omega kits require they be installed the entire time while others let you remove them after you have used them). I will buy the appropriate Lelutka skin applier once I know which version to buy. Perhaps you can advise on both the type of Lelutka and Maitriyea kits I need.

 

Here's the omega store on marketplace. 

The Maitreya kit is the first one on that page, and that's the one you probably have.  It's a relay which means you need to have it attached whenever using omega appliers, then you can remove it after you're done.  The Catwa kit works the same way.  The Lelutka kit is an installation kit, so you just need to activate it once and you're done.

Keep in mind, you don't really need them anymore, since most skin stores supply specific skins for the bodies and heads anyway.  Just use omega if there are no appliers for specific bodies and heads, such as maitreya, catwa, lelutka, etc.

[Lillith Hapmouche]

You will definitely want Omega for LeLutka, at the very least for the female heads. The two male heads, Guy and Andrea, seem popular enough to get dedicated applier support.
But make-up and lashes, hairbases and such ... there are fewer and fewer dedicated LeLutka appliers, so you literally have to keep your fingers crossed that the creator at least considered an Omega option. 

Like Nextio said, Omega for LeLutka is a "one time installation". After buying a head or receiving an update, I usually run activation once on the freshly unpacked main copy. Then I set up subfolders with copies of those activated files - a "TEST" subfolder for trying new appliers and several ones for each character that I'm playing.

 

 

[KathyGables]

On 5/12/2019 at 3:54 PM, Nextio said:

Here's the omega store on marketplace. 

The Maitreya kit is the first one on that page, and that's the one you probably have.  It's a relay which means you need to have it attached whenever using omega appliers, then you can remove it after you're done.  The Catwa kit works the same way.  The Lelutka kit is an installation kit, so you just need to activate it once and you're done.

Keep in mind, you don't really need them anymore, since most skin stores supply specific skins for the bodies and heads anyway.  Just use omega if there are no appliers for specific bodies and heads, such as maitreya, catwa, lelutka, etc.

I knew some of this but not the majority of it. So thanks for the info. With all the help I am getting I am "heading" for a good head I think. Grin.