High Fidelity gives up.

[Pussycat Catnap]

1 hour ago, CoffeeDujour said:

AR is frikin scary once you start to unpick what it actually means.

Imagine facebook, but not constrained to a single opt in website. It's everywhere, talking to everything, a hundred AI minds watching your every move. Some are there to assist you, some provide useful information, some watch to see if your gaze lingers on something it can sell you, some are pattern matching your face to thousands of databases .. its like giving your finger prints at every turn .. some watch you to pick up on behavioral hints and preemptively alert the security services

Oh I agree.

It's a nightmare of possibilities.

But it's also easy $$$

And until folks get over Capitalism, that is the ONLY THING that matters.

People think Facebook is bad now...

They have no idea what's coming...

 

Edited May 11, 2019 by Pussycat Catnap

[ItHadToComeToThis]

1 hour ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

Oh I agree.

It's a nightmare of possibilities.

But it's also easy $$$

And until folks get over Capitalism, that is the ONLY THING that matters.

People think Facebook is bad now...

They have no idea what's coming...

 

You are over estimating humanity if you think capitalism is ever going anywhere. 

[Coffee Pancake]

2 hours ago, ItHadToComeToThis said:

You are over estimating humanity if you think capitalism is ever going anywhere. 

said that about the Catholic Church in western Europe too

[Pussycat Catnap]

2 hours ago, ItHadToComeToThis said:

You are over estimating humanity if you think capitalism is ever going anywhere. 

Considering that it's only about 250 years old, and we've already mostly defeated it's partner-in-crime Communism; I think it's not as long for this world as some might imagine.

I consider the two basically one paired concept. They both look at the world with the same eyes and see the same models for solving things - two different lanes on the same highway, and they've been very effective at making people forget any other highway ever existed.

I suspect we'll fall into Socialism for a while - which is really just trying to hog the middle of that freeway... before looking at how humanity behaved before Adam Smith and finding a new road again - one that HOPEFULLY skips the many horrible things that also existed back then... (so there's a possibly horrible outcome in this too... we revert)

 

[Qie Niangao]

7 hours ago, CoffeeDujour said:

AR is frikin scary once you start to unpick what it actually means.

Imagine facebook, but not constrained to a single opt in website. It's everywhere, talking to everything, a hundred AI minds watching your every move. Some are there to assist you, some provide useful information, some watch to see if your gaze lingers on something it can sell you [...]

Yep. Eventually, AR advertising* will be the most compelling experience the species has ever known, tickling our pleasure centers like nothing our brains encountered in evolution.

Fortunately by then there will be nothing people can do as well as machines so distraction will be the only moral use for the human mind.

And then "advertising" (and "capitalism") will serve objectives we couldn't imagine nor even recognize now.

________________
* "Advertising" / "propaganda" -- tomayto / tomahto.

Edited May 11, 2019 by Qie Niangao

[Mollymews]

am reasonably confident that someone will invent an AR ad-blocker. Probably also an anonymiser which will feed the AR AI watchers a whole bunch of garbage

[ItHadToComeToThis]

8 hours ago, CoffeeDujour said:

said that about the Catholic Church in western Europe too

 

8 hours ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

Considering that it's only about 250 years old, and we've already mostly defeated it's partner-in-crime Communism; I think it's not as long for this world as some might imagine.

I consider the two basically one paired concept. They both look at the world with the same eyes and see the same models for solving things - two different lanes on the same highway, and they've been very effective at making people forget any other highway ever existed.

I suspect we'll fall into Socialism for a while - which is really just trying to hog the middle of that freeway... before looking at how humanity behaved before Adam Smith and finding a new road again - one that HOPEFULLY skips the many horrible things that also existed back then... (so there's a possibly horrible outcome in this too... we revert)

 

Capatalism is older than 250 years. You are probably looking more realistically at 5-600 years with the rise of the first banking families. However, the seeds of capstalism have been around in humanity for much much much longer than that. You could argue the Catholic Church is one of the early examples of a corporation given the mass amount of wealth they acquired whilst the common peasant slaved and starved. You could argue that the workers of a particular piece of land who had to pay taxes to the rich lord who owned it whilst selling their product at the market to make enough money to survive is also a form of capitalism. And that last example was happening over 1000 years ago let alone 5-600.

When we start moving away from capatalism we start moving more towards things like communism and socialism. The issue here is that unlike capitalism there is no reason to make the same level of effort to succeed in life as most things tend to be given to you. Which I am not saying is a bad thing and I quite support it but..

Communism is the state owning everything and everyone gets the same and moves away from democracy to create a one party state. Communism has never and will never work in practice because as much as it wants to abolish social classes and create a sense of equality...you only have to look at the historical examples of communism to see how well that works

Socialism is the people owning everything and can be anti or pro market, is more democratically inclined than communism but is also fairly interchangeable in a lot of respects. There are already examples of socialist thinking out there in the world that capitalist countries have adopted. Free education, healthcare, work days etc etc.

Here is where the problems begin. In socialism and capatalism the masses are supposed to be equal. With a more equal distribution of wealth, housing, resources, healthcare etc etc. A security guard who sits watching Netflix and does the occasional patrol is considered as equal in status and pay as the dentist. The difference between the two?. A university education and 5-8 years of hard study.

But, here's the kicker..why would you bother. If you live in a society where you end up with exactly the same amount of resources...even if said resources amount to a significant value..you have no incentive to put in any of the work as there is no significant reward for doing so. Perhaps the few who have a genuine interest and desire to help people would train in these professions sure but a significant amount would not. For me personally I would sit back, put my feet up and get on with watching Netflix and occasionally poke my security torch around. I'm not putting in 5-8 years of hard effort for no reward. Capitalism in some ways is a necessary evil. It gives people a reason to try and a reason to want to succeed, to make a better life for themselves.

Now don't think that I fully support capatalism, I don't. I think that capatalism on its own fails just as much as any of the other ideaologies. In my personal opinion what works the best is a mix of capatalism and socialism similar to what we have here in the U.K. I'm not saying the U.K is perfect it isn't, it has a long way to go and has nothing on the progression the Netherlands have made in these areas BUT its better than the alternatives

[Selene Gregoire]

1 hour ago, ItHadToComeToThis said:

Capitalism in some ways is a necessary evil. It gives people a reason to try and a reason to want to succeed, to make a better life for themselves.

Bullcrap. Humans don't need capitalism to want to make better lives for themselves. Capitalism motivates greed, not people.

[ItHadToComeToThis]

35 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

Bullcrap. Humans don't need capitalism to want to make better lives for themselves. Capitalism motivates greed, not people.

So the alternative is?. I never disputed that capatalism was greedy, it is. I think you should also note the words "in some ways" not all, "some".

But capatalism does motivate people. Motivates them to want more and to improve their situation. Any of the other options take away that motivation as there is no longer any incentive to need to progress and take on extra stresses when you can do significantly less for the same rewards. Think about the surgeons living in their mansions on hundreds of thousands a year, private doctors, dentists and even those on the other side sitting in factories doing repetitive monotonous day in day out work. You think many of them are going to put up with the stresses that those jobs entail when they could simply pick a easier path for the same results?.

I stand by what i said. Capatlism + Socialism is the best method. Any single one does not work on its own

[Coffee Pancake]

I sense a disturbance in the forums, like a slumbering monster has awoke and now seeks a thread to consume for sustenance.

[Selene Gregoire]

1 hour ago, ItHadToComeToThis said:

So the alternative is?. I never disputed that capatalism was greedy, it is. I think you should also note the words "in some ways" not all, "some".

But capatalism does motivate people. Motivates them to want more and to improve their situation. Any of the other options take away that motivation as there is no longer any incentive to need to progress and take on extra stresses when you can do significantly less for the same rewards. Think about the surgeons living in their mansions on hundreds of thousands a year, private doctors, dentists and even those on the other side sitting in factories doing repetitive monotonous day in day out work. You think many of them are going to put up with the stresses that those jobs entail when they could simply pick a easier path for the same results?.

I stand by what i said. Capatlism + Socialism is the best method. Any single one does not work on its own

When you can stop looking at the world through the eyes of money, a concept based on placing value on what is nothing more than a rock, you'll have the beginnings of understanding.

[animats]

15 hours ago, CoffeeDujour said:

AR is frikin scary once you start to unpick what it actually means.

Imagine facebook, but not constrained to a single opt in website. It's everywhere, talking to everything, a hundred AI minds watching your every move. Some are there to assist you, some provide useful information, some watch to see if your gaze lingers on something it can sell you, some are pattern matching your face to thousands of databases .. its like giving your finger prints at every turn .. some watch you to pick up on behavioral hints and preemptively alert the security services

Yes. Imagine Pokemon Go meets Google Glass. With ads.

[ItHadToComeToThis]

50 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

When you can stop looking at the world through the eyes of money, a concept based on placing value on what is nothing more than a rock, you'll have the beginnings of understanding.

I never said money. I said reward. In the case we speaking about that reward is money. Even if you take out money and you have only goods, the result it still the same. People will always want more and to feel rewarded for the work they do. 99% of the people out there are not going to do some of the kinds of work they do for spiritual or personal reward. They do it for the reward of stuff whether that's money or food or whatever. But my point stands, even if you take out money...no one is doing the hard job over the easy if the result is the same. 

Edited May 11, 2019 by ItHadToComeToThis

[ItHadToComeToThis]

55 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

I sense a disturbance in the forums, like a slumbering monster has awoke and now seeks a thread to consume for sustenance.

😅 better call @GhostbusterBob . The Jedi are of no help now

Side note : I have no idea who that is he just popped up when I typed ghostbusters

[Luna Bliss]

1 hour ago, ItHadToComeToThis said:

But capatalism does motivate people. Motivates them to want more and to improve their situation. Any of the other options take away that motivation as there is no longer any incentive to need to progress and take on extra stresses when you can do significantly less for the same rewards.

You think many of them are going to put up with the stresses that those jobs entail when they could simply pick a easier path for the same results?.

What easier job with less stress (aside from the one you imagined -- a security guard watching Netflix, which I would argue is rare).
I'd say a teacher herding around 40 kids all day has a more stressful job than a surgeon.
Even an employee in a busy restaurant undergoes extreme stress.
What about backbreaking physical labor in construction?

Usually, those who get top-paying jobs had major advantages that helped them succeed. Wealthy or high-status parents that bought his/her way into a top school, for example.  Or the advantage of being born with a high IQ that enabled them to procure higher paying jobs.

So why should these individuals who did not get their position through merit be so rewarded while others exist with nearly slave wages in many cases?

Edited May 11, 2019 by Luna Bliss

[Luna Bliss]

32 minutes ago, ItHadToComeToThis said:

no one is doing the hard job over the easy if the result is the same. 

You are being a mouthpiece for the big lie of crony capitalism -- that those at the top earned their way there, that they work harder than the "lazy poor", and so they deserve their place at the top even if it means the exploitation of innocent people.
We tend to place the blame on the top 1% for the inequality, but it's actually the top 20% or so of the upper middle classes that do as much damage to the poor because they manipulate many aspects of society in order keep their status.

[ItHadToComeToThis]

37 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

What easier job with less stresses  (aside from the one you imagined -- a security guard watching Netflix, which I would argue is rare).
I'd say a teacher herding around 40 kids all day has a more stressful job than a surgeon.
Even an employee in a busy restaurant undergoes extreme stress.
What about backbreaking physical labor in construction?

Usually, those who get top-paying jobs had major advantages that helped them succeed. Wealthy or high-status parents that bought his/her way into a top school, for example.  Or the advantage of being born with a high IQ that enabled them to procure higher paying jobs.

So why should these individuals who did not get their position through merit be so rewarded while others exist with nearly slave wages in many cases?

I am not saying they should. I said earlier that I support what socialism offers. I just don't think that it works as a solitary system. I also fully support the raising of the minimum wage to an amount that allows all people to live a comfortable life free from poverty.

In the examples you gave you hit the nail on the head with the kind of thing I am talking about. Taking out teaching as teaching is one of the few professions I think would thrive in a socialist society. But let's make some comparisons. Would you...

Do back breaking manual labour

vs

Selling ice creams in a store on a pier

would you..

Work in a restaurant under the stressful conditions experienced by hospitality employees

vs

Working at the crazy golf range handing out clubs all day long

There needs to be a balance. Humans need a reason to strive and succeed but we also need to balance it out so those who can not strive as well as others are not left behind. So for example :

-Higher minimum wage that allows people to live a comfortable existence and help raise them out of poverty

-Free education and lower admission standards to combat the financial exclusivity of certain schools and benefits to accomplished tutors who are willing to teach at less "reputable" educational institutes

-Free healthcare to all who need it

-Free housing based on your circumstances and needs. Single person might get a small apartment, family might get a 3 bedroom house

BUT, with the options for progression that capatalism offers so if people want more beyond the decent standard of living they are by default entitled to then it's down to them to put in the work in order to achieve that.

With pure socialism or communism...that is not possible 

Edited May 11, 2019 by ItHadToComeToThis

[Selene Gregoire]

1 hour ago, ItHadToComeToThis said:

I never said money. I said reward. In the case we speaking about that reward is money. Even if you take out money and you have only goods, the result it still the same. People will always want more and to feel rewarded for the work they do. 99% of the people out there are not going to do some of the kinds of work they do for spiritual or personal reward. They do it for the reward of stuff whether that's money or food or whatever. But my point stands, even if you take out money...no one is doing the hard job over the easy if the result is the same. 

[animats]

19 hours ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

(Hyperreality)

People think Facebook is bad now...

They have no idea what's coming...

If you haven't seen that "Hyperreality" video, watch it. That's the future of augmented reality.

Made in Medellin, Columbia, of all places.

[Nextio]

Altered Reality (AR), will be more popular than VR anyway.  With AR, you are still tethered to the real world with objects appearing in the same space as you, while in VR, you are closed off from the real world and put into an entirely different one.

In AR, you'll be able to manipulate just about anything on yourself, such as makeup, hair, skin, etc.  It's practically already being done with Snapchat filters.  Now imagine using something similar to Google Glass instead of your phone though.  That's where AR is headed and it will be outshine VR in every conceivable way (relatively speaking from a consumer standpoint).

Once AR glasses become powerful enough, you'll be able to manipulate the entire environment around you, such as windlight settings in SL, or even draw distance.  You'll be able to rez mini pets alongside you, or add attachments to yourself such as headbands, piercings, etc.  You'll be able to change wallpapers and other textures in your room or in the real world at a park or store.

It'll be just like SL.  The only difference will be the "viewer", and there won't be a need for monitors, phones, or gigantic headsets that engulf your entire head.  That is where i see the virtual world heading.

[Nextio]

On 5/10/2019 at 9:34 PM, Pussycat Catnap said:

Oh I agree.

It's a nightmare of possibilities.

But it's also easy $$$

And until folks get over Capitalism, that is the ONLY THING that matters.

People think Facebook is bad now...

They have no idea what's coming...

 

Haha, that video visualizes everything so much better than my previous post could have.  I don't think the UI and interface will be that cluttered at first though, but i guess it will depend on the various apps you have installed.

This is the future though, especially when the headset hardware is lightweight and cheap.  I just hope i'm still alive and not too old to experience it!  

[Coby Foden]

1 hour ago, Nextio said:

Altered Reality (AR)

Augmented Reality (AR)

[Qie Niangao]

1 hour ago, Nextio said:

Haha, that video visualizes everything so much better than my previous post could have.  I don't think the UI and interface will be that cluttered at first though, but i guess it will depend on the various apps you have installed.

Yeah, our tolerance for AR "noise" may increase with experience, but the ability of AI to make the AR environment coherent will also increase.

Above, I mumbled something about weaponized advertising in AR, and while the video makes that appear menacing visually (as befits a video), that's nothing like what I expect. AR will be one manifestation of our AI assistants, and they'll be much better at managing our attention than just flooding us with whatever is emitted by the commercial beacons we walk among.

When that AI-driven AR learns to teach, there may be hope for the species; it's pretty obvious from the climate crisis that conventional education isn't cutting it.

[Selene Gregoire]

8 hours ago, Nextio said:

where i see the virtual world heading

 

[Luna Bliss]

21 hours ago, ItHadToComeToThis said:

I said earlier that I support what socialism offers. I just don't think that it works as a solitary system.

I'm glad you're sympathetic toward the poor.
I still don't think your examples work however....there just aren't enough low-paying jobs where people aren't working very hard at them and so its not a  valid comparison (your belief that Capitalism is necessary for motivation lest people choose a low-paying job like handing out popsicles over a more stressful job with similar wages). Plus, Socialism doesn't rule out wage disparity as motivation, even if we'd become a totally Socialist country.
Plus, it's primarily what the Capitalist can squeeze out of the worker that controls the wages -- there's not so much choice as you put forth with your comparison.
 
What's wrong with Democratic Socialism? There could still be wage disparity and other possibilities for motivation enhancement without the individual ownership that is central to Capitalism.
Capitalism, by it's nature, always funnels power to the top (power begets more power, and the inequality and exploitation that follows). Sure, Capitalism could be regulated more (what I think you're calling 'Socialism'), but look at the real world and how that's working -- we are wrecking the planet and can't control the individuals that just want more, more, more. Capitalism requires endless growth (an impossibility on a finite planet)...and so I think we need something new.
I see Communism and Capitalism at opposite ends with Socialism being the middle way.

Edited May 12, 2019 by Luna Bliss