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I don't own a house on the new sim since I own land elsewhere but I think it would be a great idea if this was rolled out over all mainland grids and premium account holders, especially the 15 second rule, don't know how many times I've been tp'd home without warning, it's rude imho, and yes I use orbs on my own home sim but they can't be set to anything less than 20 seconds which I think is more than enough. 

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1 hour ago, Abnor Mole said:

If they want to use the old one I imagine they will be able to. They just won't have any of the new features.

@Dyna Mole

Please do make the orb 1 LI. Every single LI what we can save in our parcels is very precious. 5 LI is too much to use for an orb.
Thank you. 🙂

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27 minutes ago, snakeyoslo said:

I don't own a house on the new sim since I own land elsewhere but I think it would be a great idea if this was rolled out over all mainland grids and premium account holders, especially the 15 second rule, don't know how many times I've been tp'd home without warning, it's rude imho, and yes I use orbs on my own home sim but they can't be set to anything less than 20 seconds which I think is more than enough. 

The amount of time needed really depends on the method of travel and the size of the parcel. It gets more complicated on the mainland as a whole. In that setting, we'd have to either (1) have a sliding scale of some sort depending on probably parcel size or (2) come up with a one size fits all number recognizing that it might be too much/too little for some circumstances. 

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1 minute ago, Female Winslet said:

The amount of time needed really depends on the method of travel and the size of the parcel. It gets more complicated on the mainland as a whole. In that setting, we'd have to either (1) have a sliding scale of some sort depending on probably parcel size or (2) come up with a one size fits all number recognizing that it might be too much/too little for some circumstances. 

Yeah I do understand that but what I was thinking was at least a blanket ban on the 0 second warning ones, at least for mainland, and if these new security devices were offered as an incentive to premium accounts then maybe that would happen

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6 minutes ago, Female Winslet said:

The amount of time needed really depends on the method of travel and the size of the parcel. It gets more complicated on the mainland as a whole. In that setting, we'd have to either (1) have a sliding scale of some sort depending on probably parcel size or (2) come up with a one size fits all number recognizing that it might be too much/too little for some circumstances. 

I imagine some enterprising scripter could probably make an orb that automatically adjusted it's minimum warning time based on the size of the parcel it was on . 

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I'd love to know how u did it Blush because even with a Linden on site we can't unlock the houseboat to anyone but myself. Even setting access to the houseboat to anyone does not unlock the doors or house menu to my friends.

Edited by BobbieEarhart
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7 minutes ago, BobbieEarhart said:

I'd love to know how u did it Blush because even with a Linden on site we can't unlock the houseboat to anyone but myself. Even setting access to the houseboat to anyone does not unlock the doors or house menu to my friends.

Have you tried re-rezzing the houseboat?

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19 minutes ago, BobbieEarhart said:

I'd love to know how u did it Blush because even with a Linden on site we can't unlock the houseboat to anyone but myself. Even setting access to the houseboat to anyone does not unlock the doors or house menu to my friends.

If this helps .. I set the name and then I have to hit the list button after inputting any names I want added the list. If I don't hit the list button last it doesn't work.

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Ediited to remove my observation about control panels as they work better than the way they say they do, allowing the doors to be open to all without the worry of coming back to a redecorated house.

Edited by Aethelwine
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1 hour ago, Abnor Mole said:

I imagine some enterprising scripter could probably make an orb that automatically adjusted it's minimum warning time based on the size of the parcel it was on . 

True. But it runs into the same problems that exist with current policy, which says the following, with respect to warning time:

You can use scripted objects to enhance your land ownership tools. Generally, such scripts should:

  • Provide adequate warning to the undesired Resident.

Full policy in the knowledge base here: 

 

And the problem we run into is: What is "adequate?" 

  • Some argue that zero warning is adequate, which essentially deletes the requirement to provide warning nonexistent. 
  • Are we talking about adequate to cross through the parcel? Or simply to turn around and get out?
  • People don't understand different transportation methods very well. I know sailing and I know flying. I don't know the issues around driving that limit people being able to maneuver, by way of example. I do know that travel is more complex than simply pointing somewhere and going.

For those reasons, I am more a fan of picking one amount of time. It trades the flexibility on time amounts for a policy that is easy to follow and easy to enforce. I'll save the discussion on how much time is appropriate for another forum and just use the 15 seconds from these new orbs as an example to illustrate the advantages:

  • If all orbs are required to provide at least 15 seconds of warning, then no one has to debate what is "reasonable" and what is not. Everyone knows that if it is 15 seconds or more, they are safe from AR reports.
  • Governance Lindens would find that rule easy to enforce. All they have to do is see that the orb provides 15 seconds or more of warning. Then they either ignore any reports about it or they return the orb to its owner and tell them to set that amount of time or more.
  • Orb creators would know exactly the standards their orbs need to make and could script them accordingly to reject any amount less than 15 seconds.

The drawbacks would be:

  • 15 seconds would be too much time for a tiny parcel (like a 16 sqm parcel) and too little time for a large parcel (like a full sim, for example).
  • 15 seconds would not be enough for some travel methods like, for example, sailboats, whose ability to travel is limited by the wind, so they can't just turn around and leave. 

The flat number seems a better way of giving people a rule to follow that they can understand well enough to actually follow it and making it easy for LL to enforce. The drawbacks are inherent in nearly any fixed number that might be chosen, but they seem less severe than the drawbacks inherent in just requiring "adequate" warning.

That said, I'm basically a professional law & policy wonk in RL. I don't think 15 seconds would be appropriate for mainland. And I could quite happily go on and on and on about analyzing various amounts of time to determine what would be adequate. But I don't want to derail the whole thread, so I would suggest anyone who is interested in that talk about it with me outside this thread if you're interested. There are no perfect solutions. But I believe there are solutions for the rest of mainland just as there are for Bellesseria.

Edited by Female Winslet
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5 hours ago, Brinlea said:

Per alcuni di noi le cassette della posta si sono rotte durante qualche aggiornamento e tutti abbiamo dovuto archiviare i biglietti.

the same thing happened to me too, but in live I opened the chat support to make someone intervene and immediately they arrived to reset the scripts. Now it works and I installed the security

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About people having to file tickets to get their mailbox/life preserver scripts reset, you can reset them yourself now.
See this post by Patch Linden which covers 2 things, the issue with "Resident" as last name not being able to be added to access lists, AND the ability to reset your mailbox/life preserver scripts.

 

Edited by Fritigern Gothly
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6 hours ago, Female Winslet said:

True. But it runs into the same problems that exist with current policy, which says the following, with respect to warning time:

You can use scripted objects to enhance your land ownership tools. Generally, such scripts should:

  • Provide adequate warning to the undesired Resident.

And the problem we run into is: What is "adequate?" 

i posted a bit of code in the scripting forum that shows a way in which terms like "adequate" in these kinda problem cases can be considered

 

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I know people worked it out, and it is definitely the best feature SL ever gave us not being able to see avatars in parcels set to not visible, but that and land set to group should be enough to have limitations if needed, or is ban lines meaning you cannot set to group either ? 

Anyway I made an example picture for fun before I read people tested it.
 

This feature is something that people should be using for everything, we have used it for Hair Fair for years now, so that people on other sims are not loading those on adjoining sims, it cuts down on lag considerably, funny as hell when you get to a crossing and suddenly there are 20 people pushed up against it or trying to and they appear and disappear over and over :)

 

 

 

 

example 1.jpg

example 2.jpg

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11 hours ago, Yorkie Bardeen said:

Hi, I tested this just now with my own mainland parcel and Firestorm viewer.

My friends are at 110m altitude. I set my draw distance to 1024m and moved myself to 510m

No avatars visible.

410m

No avatars visible.

310m, 210m

No avatars visible.

I repeated this and did not get any visible avatars until I was within ~30m vertical distance.

 

not sure when this got changed by LL but it is something that @Patch Linden should maybe make a post about. Will save a lot of people a lot of angst about all this

when an avatar is inside the banline box area, and avatar parcel visibility is unchecked, and the parcel access is set to allow Anyone, then a avatar hovering on the roof of  the banline box cannot see an avatar inside the box, even when the avatar is 1 meter below them. Vice versa, the avatar inside the box cannot see the avatar on top

I haven't tested what you did at every height, but it seems that when both avatars are outside the box over a parcel with these settings then the physical distance between the avatars is up to 42 meters for them to see each other

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15 hours ago, Boyd Wolfhunter said:

I still think you need to have community's with different maturity levels as in adult and G to not leave any one out. as I would hate to be doing adult things with my partner and some one walks in snaps a shot and reports us and she and I  get kicked out of SL for it. I was told long ago you can do these things in your home by lindens. closed doors . 

As far as I understand you are only supposed to take reasonable precautions for noone being watching you. If the orb is in place and working you should be fine whatever you are doing and shame on the spies that try to report you!

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1 hour ago, Sasy Scarborough said:

I know people worked it out, and it is definitely the best feature SL ever gave us not being able to see avatars in parcels set to not visible, but that and land set to group should be enough to have limitations if needed, or is ban lines meaning you cannot set to group either ? 

Anyway I made an example picture for fun before I read people tested it.
 

This feature is something that people should be using for everything, we have used it for Hair Fair for years now, so that people on other sims are not loading those on adjoining sims, it cuts down on lag considerably, funny as hell when you get to a crossing and suddenly there are 20 people pushed up against it or trying to and they appear and disappear over and over :)

 

I can't say I am such a fan of the parcel visibility settings, although not such an issue for sailors here on Bellissarria widespread usage would become a pain for those flying because of the graphic rendering strain it puts on you as your passengers and nearby travellers pop in and out of existence every parcel with the setting on. Sailing the Seychelles channel in a group, always generates complaints. Because with cache memory never seeming to be utilised efficiently, it means waiting them to download and travelling around with pink clouded passengers, neighbouring boats vanishing and potential collisions.

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14 hours ago, CoffeeDujour said:

Um ... good luck getting anyone to pick up the old one if and when they even notice the new one is released.

14 hours ago, Abnor Mole said:

If they want to use the old one I imagine they will be able to. They just won't have any of the new features.

It's possible the end-user security scripts communicate with a central server (per region?) that could be set to disable those of a certain vintage, requiring a replacement... or, theoretically (with God powers) simply replace it per force. 

13 hours ago, Coby Foden said:

@Dyna Mole

Please do make the orb 1 LI. Every single LI what we can save in our parcels is very precious. 5 LI is too much to use for an orb.
Thank you. 🙂

It could also be incorporated into a reworked control panel, for 0 LI. Doesn't mean everybody activates it. Although, I guess, having it part of the control panel would suggest to folks that it's an option they should try, more than rezzing a 5 LI thing, so maybe better to wait for habits to form before making it too attractively LI-efficient.

To the approach: seems a very good solution. As @Kyrah Abattoir pointed out, the delay before warning is necessarily variable, depending on the avatar-detection scanning interval, but by luck-of-the-draw we shouldn't see too many noise notices in chat -- and anyway warning by chat is infinitely preferable to those crazy pop-ups emitted by the typical Marketplace security orb. So, good job! 

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