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1 hour ago, Eva Knoller said:

From my understanding the Epiphany event works this way. You can unpack the box OR get points and the box disappears. This is only useful if you want an item that can be purchased with points. It also takes a heck of a lot of points to get anything. The points carry over from past events, though. 

Instead of a point system, give credit or some other means of accounting. Point systems are... well... pointless if it takes a long time to build enough points up, even if they do roll over. That's like Office Depot's system. Their points do expire now and you have 30 days to use them. The problem is it takes two weeks for them to put the points you earned on your "account" so you only have two weeks to use them. Which means most people don't use their points at all, unless they are just throwing money away buying things they don't need just to use the points. Not very intelligent.

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An item is either collectible or it isn't. What you're describing (partially) is Artificial Scarcity - not the same thing at all. To you this equates to or creates a level of collectibility. To s

Some people collect things in RL because they find the item interesting and enjoyable to collect, whether the item is considered a "collectible" by whomever sets those standards, has any sense of rari

Oh for Pete's sake. Talk to the creators! They're the ones that set those rules. They are the ones who determine when or if a gacha is retired for their creations. Ask them how often they retire or if

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1 hour ago, FairreLilette said:

And, again, Gachas are supposed to retire in the first place.

I wasn't aware that this was an across the board standard for Gachas.  I do know that some events have rules regarding gacha items, and I also know that there was a lengthy discussion here in the forums some time ago as to what was actually meant by an item being "exclusive" at an event.  I think it's up to the creator as to how long they want to keep gacha machines for a particular collection out in their stores.  

The reseller market and whether it is over-saturated or not, is not the creators' fault or responsibility, so I don't think there should be changes at the creator level to try and control or limit the resell market. 

I'm confused by a lot of what you were suggesting, and it almost sounds like you want to create the same type of "rarity" that exists in the real world, for gacha items in SL.  I don't think that will be possible.

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19 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

Instead of a point system, give credit or some other means of accounting. Point systems are... well... pointless if it takes a long time to build enough points up, even if they do roll over. That's like Office Depot's system. Their points do expire now and you have 30 days to use them. The problem is it takes two weeks for them to put the points you earned on your "account" so you only have two weeks to use them. Which means most people don't use their points at all, unless they are just throwing money away buying things they don't need just to use the points. Not very intelligent.

I’m totally with you here. It takes a long time to accumulate points if one is playing ‘responsibly’, whatever that means. For me it means not blowing 5k on gacha at one event. It is good that there are options, though, if you get duplicate items or items you just don’t want. Better than flooding the marketplace with more gacha items, which plenty seem to hate. 

 

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48 minutes ago, moirakathleen said:

I wasn't aware that this was an across the board standard for Gachas.  

@ moirakathleen It would not be feasible for me to read every post nor know everything about SL nor Gacha nor anything for that matter.  But, what I did read and how I was responded to when asking questions said Gachas retire.  

Edit:  I want to create a "collectibility" factor.  How can there be a collectibility factor if the item is just always there?

Edited by FairreLilette
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21 minutes ago, Eva Knoller said:

I’m totally with you here. It takes a long time to accumulate points if one is playing ‘responsibly’, whatever that means. For me it means not blowing 5k on gacha at one event. It is good that there are options, though, if you get duplicate items or items you just don’t want. Better than flooding the marketplace with more gacha items, which plenty seem to hate. 

 

As far as points, I sorta like the idea.  

I have used points or rewards in RL with one company.  I do use them personally in rl.  

 

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  1. You don't create a collectibility factor - that's what collectibles are for. That's a whole other discussion. 
  2. There is an entire category on the market place for Gacha items. Its use needs to be enforced and sub categories for it created. If neither is done, the category needs to be removed.
  3. Shunting them off to a whole different market or relegating their resale to an in world only location removes an entire potential set of customers/purchases. I personally would not have bought the few Gacha items I have if they where not on the marketplace. 
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2 hours ago, Solar Legion said:
  1. You don't create a collectibility factor - that's what collectibles are for. That's a whole other discussion. 
  2. There is an entire category on the market place for Gacha items. Its use needs to be enforced and sub categories for it created. If neither is done, the category needs to be removed.
  3. Shunting them off to a whole different market or relegating their resale to an in world only location removes an entire potential set of customers/purchases. I personally would not have bought the few Gacha items I have if they where not on the marketplace. 

1. Agree.

2. Agree, with the condition that if the category is removed, all gachas should also be removed. Not something I want to see happen.

3. Agree except those who purchase only a few (or rarely purchase, if at all) are not the target market. It's the ones who, for lack of a better way to put it at the moment, collect gachas.

Please note, that the only horse I have in this race is not wanting to have set filters to weed out as many gachas as possible. The search feature is screw ball enough as it is without having to filter out things that are no copy/no mod. Filtering out no copy doesn't exclude all gachas, just most. I don't want to see any unless I am specifically looking for gacha(s). Which, at this point, I have no desire to purchase and likely never will. 

 

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I don't have any real solutions to offer; just some observations.  The gacha machines became tighter about a year or so ago. That meant receiving a lot more commons before receiving the rare [which is usually what is wanted] and now those extra commons are flooding the MP.  There also seem to be many new creators getting involved along with those that have been around for a long time. That has also played a role.

Maybe asking the creators to loosen up their machines a bit to what they used to be would help every player keep their extra items to a manageable level and the creator will still make a profit.  Maybe we won't see 18 pages of the same item with prices starting at 20 lindens.

As far as events go, it seems that the creators who have been around for a long time have left most events and sell their own items at their own event or store. I don't know why but they must have left for a reason.

Personally, I wish there were trade in [or something] on most items. If I see, for example, a living room set I like but I already own 2 sets. I won't buy a new one because I can't resell or trade in the old ones I already have and I don't need 3 living room sets. That doesn't help support the new creators which I would like to do.

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7 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

Yeah, I like the idea of off of Marketplace.  Marketplace is not user-created.  It is owned by LL.  

What do you think LL would say?

 

They probably wouldn't like losing the money they make off of each and every item that is sold through the MP.  Must be quite lucrative for them.

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5 hours ago, Solar Legion said:
  1. You don't create a collectibility factor - that's what collectibles are for. That's a whole other discussion. 
  2. There is an entire category on the market place for Gacha items. Its use needs to be enforced and sub categories for it created. If neither is done, the category needs to be removed.
  3. Shunting them off to a whole different market or relegating their resale to an in world only location removes an entire potential set of customers/purchases. I personally would not have bought the few Gacha items I have if they where not on the marketplace. 

As to 1)  Of course you create a collectibility factor.  It is done in many ways.  Some designers have new items with each season (every 3 months)...others bring out a new line twice a year (every six months) while old items from last year are "retired".  A collectibility factor could be created in many ways.  As for certain other items such as decor items...I believe Fenton has a new line once a year.  Collectibility is created.  New items arrive, old items retire. 

Or you create a new item once a month, such as the "beanie baby" craze.  Or whatever that was.  I can't quite remember.   

If the Gacha items do not retire, there is no reason to collect them...the Gacha boxes just become inventory dispenser boxes with a chance to win a rare I may not want.  

I'm near to two years in SL, and I want about 4 rares out of the bazillions.  MP is flooded with rares now too.

As far as another discussion.  To me, collectibility is the crux of this discussion. 

  

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13 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

There are people selling Gacha's on Marketplace for as low as 2 linden.  The supply just outweighs the demand from what I've seen.

I'd say that this indicates more that a creator misjudged how popular specific items would be and/or their gacha machines make getting the rares way too hard.

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An item is either collectible or it isn't. What you're describing (partially) is Artificial Scarcity - not the same thing at all.

To you this equates to or creates a level of collectibility. To someone else, it may not.

Example(s): Some collect stamps. Some collect coins. Some may even collect bridge tokens or similar. Some even collect shot glasses. Some will collect foreign currency (if they travel).

Yes, some things that people collect are rare/scarce ... But not always. Don't conflate the two.

Edited by Solar Legion
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11 hours ago, Solar Legion said:

An item is either collectible or it isn't. What you're describing (partially) is Artificial Scarcity - not the same thing at all.

To you this equates to or creates a level of collectibility. To someone else, it may not.

Example(s): Some collect stamps. Some collect coins. Some may even collect bridge tokens or similar. Some even collect shot glasses. Some will collect foreign currency (if they travel).

Yes, some things that people collect are rare/scarce ... But not always. Don't conflate the two.

Yeah, but the most collectible stamps are those that are no longer produced (are kind of antique or vintage - retired) or commemorated an event and were only available for a limited time.  Many shot glasses have some of the same...it's most collectible if a designer was known, or it was set with nudes and is rare or something like that or has hula girls on it. ....yada, yada, yada.

Most coin collector's also collect coins which are no longer in circulation - retired.  

I think what you are describing here are souvenirs.  I don't see Gacha having much value as souvenirs.  

I am an antiques and collectibles dealer in real life so I've seen some of the things people THINK have value which don't AND which no antique/collectibles dealer wants, and I know a lot about the reproduction market too which comes out of China and the Phillipines...stupid people buying shot glasses with hula girls are mostly reproduced.  Sorry to report.  The reproduction market from China is what killed eBay pretty much.  Ebay is flooded with reproductions.  

Edit:  Creator's could create Gacha souvenir type items say to commemorate Second Life's 16th Birthday but you can't make too many and buyers may still have a ways to wait for those to become of worth IF they are collecting Second Life 16th birthday items for something other than just nostalgia or just to have.

  

Edited by FairreLilette
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The point -which seems to have been missed - is that any item can be collectible because the person collecting said item sees it as such. 

Rarity/scarcity does not automatically make an item collectible. At. All. 

Value is meaningless when collecting. 

Congrats, you're a dealer. You're in the business of attaching a "value" to things that have no intrinsic value, based on a set of criteria. 

Tho reality is quite different. 

Start up your own set of "collectibles" if you're looking to mirror such a system. 

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Some people collect things in RL because they find the item interesting and enjoyable to collect, whether the item is considered a "collectible" by whomever sets those standards, has any sense of rarity or not.

 I'm just having a hard time seeing gacha items as some type of limited edition, collectible type thing.  When I buy gacha items - generally from reseller shops in world - or once in a great while a pull or two from a gacha machine - I'm buying it because I happen to really like the item.  I have no idea (and don't care) whether it was from this season or from three years ago, or how many there are 'out there' in SL.

The presence of gacha items in the marketplace doesn't really bother me. 

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1 hour ago, Solar Legion said:

The point -which seems to have been missed - is that any item can be collectible because the person collecting said item sees it as such. 

Rarity/scarcity does not automatically make an item collectible. At. All. 

Value is meaningless when collecting. 

Congrats, you're a dealer. You're in the business of attaching a "value" to things that have no intrinsic value, based on a set of criteria. 

Tho reality is quite different. 

Start up your own set of "collectibles" if you're looking to mirror such a system. 

I still disagree that you are bringing up nostalgia and souvenir type situations which I don't really see Gacha as either of those.  

I need to agree to disagree with you because there are many people who don't see their collections in real life as having no value.  

You brought up coins.  Well, the coins that are most collectible have real metals in them - real metals have value.  So, do many other items.

The souvenir arena can be a tricky one as far as value.

I already do have limited items.  They are sold out.  I don't currently have any.  I will again.  

Edit:  But my limited items are not Gacha items.  They are items I run from time to time at 15 lindens.  I do it so people who don't create can have something more unique that no one else may have.  There are many people who don't know how to modify an item, so I put out limited edition items for that reason because we who create or know how to modify CAN have more unique items while those who don't know how to modify can't. 

p.s.s.  And, of course Grandma and Grandpa's items have worth and may HAVE A LOT OF WORTH.  People are better off seeking the advice of an antique's and collectibles dealer than selling at a yard sale because you only know you may have antiques but you don't know WHAT nor what the items are worth if you aren't in the business.   The money is better off going to the family than selling for a dollar a piece if you have vintage items.  k...nuff said.  

Edited by FairreLilette
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1 hour ago, moirakathleen said:

The presence of gacha items in the marketplace doesn't really bother me. 

Gachas being on the MP doesn't really bother me. What bothers me is having to filter them out with no copy/no mod because that means I'm also filtering out things I want or need to see. Which means I may not find what I need and then I'm going to be stressed and pissed because I wasted hours looking for something I had to filter out, then have to waste even more time wading through sheetloads of gachas to find it. If it even exists in SL.

When you get to be my age, life is way too short to waste that much time.

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2 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

Gachas being on the MP doesn't really bother me. What bothers me is having to filter them out with no copy/no mod because that means I'm also filtering out things I want or need to see. Which means I may not find what I need and then I'm going to be stressed and pissed because I wasted hours looking for something I had to filter out, then have to waste even more time wading through sheetloads of gachas to find it. If it even exists in SL.

When you get to be my age, life is way too short to waste that much time.

I can understand that (and I think we're around the same age).   I do occasionally search on marketplace, but I guess I have been fortunate with the things I've been looking for to not have too many gacha items cluttering up my search returns. 

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13 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

I'd say that this indicates more that a creator misjudged how popular specific items would be and/or their gacha machines make getting the rares way too hard.

They were gloves.  I really liked them so I bought five pairs at 2 and 4 linden in different colors.  The gloves were worth way more than that as I really like this particular designer.  I'd guess the gloves were just a little "too fussy" for some to want to bother with.  I like my avatar to wear warm stuff when it's cold and/or I'm going to snow sims but that's just me.  And, I liked that they fit Maitreya without having to pay too much.

But also, I have gotten furnishings for 9-10 linden.  

Gacha's have fallen below even 20.

I agree that Gacha's need to be in their category or flagged.

Sub-categories is needed too.  

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19 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

This sounds like you are saying that just because you like a particular designer, their products should cost more. O.o

That's funny.  No, I am just talking about the quality.  I think her work is awesome...I love her stuff.  

I guess what I was trying to say...is there wasn't anything wrong with the product.  It was a great design, very well done.  It just may have fallen into the too fussy category, that's why the price was so low.  

I'm not really sure.  But, 2 and 4 linden for her gloves...it was a great deal for me.  

May I Add:  I wonder if it is a good time to buy some Gacha?  I think the market has hit rock bottom.  Is it time to buy some?  

But, yet, on the other hand, there is no bottom, if the product is still there and never retires.  It's just endless.

I like Gacha 2 idea in the OP.  Gacha's need a time-frame.  

Edited by FairreLilette
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Sorry, not brining either situation up. 

You're looking at it from a monetary value lens - period. Monetary value does not equate to collectibility, period. 

It really doesn't. 

Agree to disagree, fine. 

This is something we're certainly not going to see eye to eye on anyway - one is focused on the "value" while the other isn't. 

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I doubt many gacha creators will agree to a time-frame. They already have a heavy workload and customers want to an additional workload. LL isn't going to set anything up on the MP to automatically pull "out dated" items nor will they set up a separate MP just for gachas. It would not be cost effective for them. Unless merchants don't mind all the fees being raised. Again. 

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