Ways to Improve Gacha...

[FairreLilette]

This is a thread for those who want to engage in an honest discussion of HOW TO IMPROVE Gacha.

My thought is to first RETIRE all the Gacha items that are available now because, imo, the supply outweighs the demand.  

Because I have items I've had for almost two years since I joined and the item still has 5 pages worth of just one of the item on Marketplace, for example.  And, that is what I've seen with many Gacha's.  So, to me, it appears supply outweighs demand if it's hardly even sold in two years.

AND, to replace it with Gacha 2.

What would Gacha 2 be:

1)  Machines that expire in three months and those items are now retired.  A hover text would appear above the retired machine and the retired items would be put on a bulletin board.  

2)  Be able to exchange your Gacha 2 item for a copy, mod version.  You turn in your mod/transfer version for a copy/mod version.  (I saw this on one creator's sim...I thought it was a great idea.)  

So, I'd like to ask the community of other thoughts of ways to improve Gacha?

Please, no " Gacha should just go away, it's gambling" or whatever kind of posts. 

This is a thread about ways to improve Gacha, not how you feel about Gacha.

Thanks in advance for any output.

[Chic Aeon]

11 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

1)  Machines that expire in three months and those items are now retired.  A hover text would appear above the retired machine and the retired items would be put on a bulletin board.  

It is going to be extremely difficult to get content creators to go along with this.  Just saying.  

[Janet Voxel]

The simplest solution is for gatcha items to have a separate marketplace. Maybe something like eBay where you can not only rate the item, but rate the seller as well. Once they dip below a certain threshold rating they get kicked from the marketplace. 

[FairreLilette]

53 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

It is going to be extremely difficult to get content creators to go along with this.  Just saying.  

The only reason I can think of that creator's would not like about it is that they aren't really selling Gacha, they are just using those machines to sell inventory or to the one's who want to get a rare.

And, the supply does outweigh the demand.  

The market is frankly flooded...too much supply.

When supply exceeds demand, people don't wanna play that game anymore.  Your customers and resellers leave.

Something needs to change on the supply end.

What would creator's want?  

Edit in:  Not to mention, if it's only available for three months, I think creator's would sell more than would in two years.  People would hurry to get it because there isn't much time too get it.

Edited April 23, 2019 by FairreLilette

[Chic Aeon]

1 hour ago, FairreLilette said:

What would creator's want?  

Edit in:  Not to mention, if it's only available for three months, I think creator's would sell more than would in two years.  People would hurry to get it because there isn't much time too get it.

Well personally the folks I know  (NOT in clothing so not sure how that is going now) are not making all that many gachas.  While I was a monthly gacha event creator for over a year I am only doing gachas now that ALSO have fatpacks of copy items == so that customers have a choice.  "I" am mostly doing main store and Marketplace sales now (that's JUST me) and a lot of creators that I know are just not working as much also me except I have been busing making things for my new Linden Home which also gave me "products"  LOL. 

I still sell a LOT of gacha items that are old (some over two years). This in the primary market, not gacha resale.  I have no idea about other folks but I would have no interest at all in the proposed new system.  I DO heartily agree that gacha sales have gone downhill greatly over the last year -- at least at the gacha events that I took part in.  Cosmo is still doing well in gachas for me. 

While some creators (lassitude & ennui I know for sure) will trade out transfer for copy items, that can take up a fair amount of time that many don't and wouldn't want to put into the sale of a 50 - 70 linden item. 

I do HEARTILY AGREE that there needs to be a paradigm shift for retail, not just gachas but events too. So if you come up with the "next big thing" for SL I applaud you.  It is due :D.  

[FairreLilette]

3 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

Well personally the folks I know  (NOT in clothing so not sure how that is going now) are not making all that many gachas.  While I was a monthly gacha event creator for over a year I am only doing gachas now that ALSO have fatpacks of copy items == so that customers have a choice.  "I" am mostly doing main store and Marketplace sales now (that's JUST me) and a lot of creators that I know are just not working as much also me except I have been busing making things for my new Linden Home which also gave me "products"  LOL. 

I still sell a LOT of gacha items that are old (some over two years). This in the primary market, not gacha resale.  I have no idea about other folks but I would have no interest at all in the proposed new system.  I DO heartily agree that gacha sales have gone downhill greatly over the last year -- at least at the gacha events that I took part in.  Cosmo is still doing well in gachas for me. 

While some creators (lassitude & ennui I know for sure) will trade out transfer for copy items, that can take up a fair amount of time that many don't and wouldn't want to put into the sale of a 50 - 70 linden item. 

I do HEARTILY AGREE that there needs to be a paradigm shift for retail, not just gachas but events too. So if you come up with the "next big thing" for SL I applaud you.  It is due :D.  

Okay, you said a lot there...so I need to go through it all.

But, I also needed to add...that I am a creator but have not gotten into the Gacha area yet.  

However, I would go for the 3-4 month (my 3 month is just a suggestion...but I'd think even if you stretch it out to six months...it's still to long to create a desire to buy) and then retire because I know I'd sell more in 3 months of those items than I would in two years most likely.  Less supply brings more demand.  That's just the way it works.  

As for the trade a mod/transfer item for a copy/mod one...I love the idea, and perhaps a terminal of some kind could be built?  

Edited April 24, 2019 by FairreLilette

[Chic Aeon]

2 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

  Less supply brings more demand.  That's just the way it works.  

 

After over ten years in retail (and a few decades in real life retail) I have to disagree -- perhaps for YOU though. We all need to remember that there are others in the world besides us so our viewpoints are OUR viewpoints .

But I hope it all works out for you. 

Have FUN. That's the important thing. 

[Pamela Galli]

22 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

After over ten years in retail (and a few decades in real life retail) I have to disagree -- perhaps for YOU though. We all need to remember that there are others in the world besides us so our viewpoints are OUR viewpoints .

But I hope it all works out for you. 

Have FUN. That's the important thing. 

I agree. Supply does not drive demand. if I deleted half my store it would not cause demand for my stuff to increase. 

[Mollymews]

something different then

set up a web-based auction system

 - Costs 50L to list an auction item. If seller cancels the auction then the 50L is not refunded

- Seller can set a Reserve or No-reserve

- When the item sells then LL retains 30% of the winning bid, in addition to the 50L listing fee

- Bids must be paid for in L$ and are held in escrow.

- When the winning bidder doesn't get the item, they are refunded their money

- Unsuccessful bidders are also refunded

the auction system doesn't need to be restricted to gacha resells. Any No-copy/Transfer permissons product can be sent to auction

[Sister Nova]

While the gacha enthusiasts are happy to throw their money at a machine until they are able to collect all of the items, there is going to be a flood on the market of all the 'tat' that they're looking to offload rather than delete in order to recoup some of their expenditure.

If they're taken off the marketplace then yard sales would be the best place for them. It's fun wandering around, and I often come away with stuff I've never seen before. That would prevent the sale of empty boxes too as contents can be checked at least. This is also good for the economy: rentals for landlords; tier for LL; huzzah!

The item swap machines for copy items are great, I've seen them at a couple of stores and really are a must for buildings and vehicles.

Ultimately though, the only way to control amounts is to limit the amount produced to a finite number. I really can't see that happening though... who doesn't like receiving money afterall?!

[FairreLilette]

10 hours ago, Pamela Galli said:

I agree. Supply does not drive demand. if I deleted half my store it would not cause demand for my stuff to increase. 

Well, I disagree that supply doesn't increase demand.  Deleting items is not like a limited time item. 

There are people selling Gacha's on Marketplace for as low as 2 linden.  The supply just outweighs the demand from what I've seen.  

The good about Gacha is it has brought me to creator's I really like in the antique and Shabby Chic genres I am interested in.  I would not have found those creator's otherwise.

It's a good tool.  

It just needs improvement.

I think perhaps 3 month, 6 month and 1 year Gachas machines could be a good idea.  The 3 months was a little too short though could still be used or tried along with 6 month and 1 year.  The machines would need to be color coded for 3, 6 and 12 months.

And, that's my idea.

I have a background in real life retail also with antiques, collectibles and Shabby Chic - most of which are one-of-a-kind items or hard to get and that is what collecting is about.  It is harder to find and more rare items rather than mass produced in China kind of stuff.  This is my real life background.

We need a Gacha convention and a forum area just for Gachas because I really love some of the work that is being created in the antique and Shabby Chic area - it's tremendous!  

And, as I said, I think a Gacha is a great tool to find creator's and "your" store but it needs re-vamping.  Into what?  I don't know.

 

Edited April 24, 2019 by FairreLilette

[norajulian]

A few things:

How would you implement this? Secondlife is essentially user-run. The users came up with the gacha idea, not LL. Linden Lab does not have a rule about gacha, although they did create the gacha section on the marketplace after gacha didn’t die out after the first few years. 

I suppose I’m still confused over your idea of retirement. I often don’t stumble into some things created until years later and I will purchase them. Not all gachas are made for events - some are honestly just store releases. There are so many creative people pumping out items today and my RL takes priority so three months may not be enough time for me to hop around and find ALL the stores. I often stumble into stores I’ve never seen before, and I’ve been in SL for twelve years. New, creative people are joining the market every day. 

I’m confused by the bulletin board idea. Why post something up that is no longer being sold? Why would a creator make something that they can only sell for three months? And if by this, you wish to have the item sold as copy.. why would people buy the original gachas if they know that it would be posted in three months as copiable? Would they not wait until then? And even if the terminal is used... again.. why would a creator put work into something that they can’t sell in three months? 

Unfortunately, RL markets and SL markets are SLIGHTLY different. If these gachas were an oligopoly system or even a competitive monopoly, perhaps. But most stores in SL are in the pure competition market - ANYONE can join in with no barriers to entry. This is why prices remain the same (generally) across most gachas, with them at 50-100L a pull. 

Again - how would this be implemented?  

 

Edited April 24, 2019 by norajulian

[FairreLilette]

28 minutes ago, norajulian said:

 

I’m confused by the bulletin board idea. Why post something up that is no longer being sold? Why would a creator make something that they can only sell for three months? And if by this, you wish to have the item sold as copy.. why would people buy the original gachas if they know that it would be posted in three months as copiable? Would they not wait until then? And even if the terminal is used... again.. why would a creator put work into something that they can’t sell in three months? 

 

 

Retirement is what collecting is about.  It is an item that is no longer produced; i.e., it turns into something there is less of, often creating a desire to purchase and or collect retired items.  Still gets the designer's name out there because most collectibles in the real world have what is called a "hallmark" which is a stamp into the object of the designer's name (usually on the bottom of an item).  If the person likes the designs, they start collecting.

The bulletin board is to let people know THEY HAVE RETIRED items that they purchased because I have asked "How do you know if a Gacha is retired", and the answer I got, was "Ask a Creator".  Well, I did that and got no response.  But, the bulletin board is not a big deal right now.  Though there does need to be a way to know if your item is retired or not. 

I never said creator's should sell a Gacha, retire it and then sell it as a copyable.  

What has been said in this thread is:  Turn in your mod/transfer item for a copy/modify one.  Some creator's are already doing that.  And, I think it's a great idea.

And, if a retired Gacha item is mod/transfer...why would you not still stumble upon vintage/retired items?  Since it is a mod/transfer item it could be resold after 10 years, 20, 30, 50....years..........  You'd only be stumbling upon a more vintage retired item.  

 

Edited April 24, 2019 by FairreLilette

[Pamela Galli]

41 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

Well, I disagree that supply doesn't increase demand.  Deleting items is not like a limited time item. 

 There are people selling Gacha's on Marketplace for as low as 2 linden.  The supply just outweighs the demand from what I've seen.  

You are talking about supply affecting price, not demand. People don’t want things more just because there are fewer of them.

[norajulian]

4 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

. I never said creator's should sell a Gacha, retire it and then sell it as a copyable.  

What has been said in this thread is:  Turn in your mod/transfer item for a copy/modify one.  Some creator's are already doing that.  And, I think it's a great idea.

And, if a retired Gacha item is mod/transfer...why would you not still stumble upon vintage/retired items?  Since it is a mod/transfer item it could be resold after 10 years, 20, 30, 50....years..........  You'd only be stumbling upon a more vintage retired item.  

So you think it is a good idea to have mod copy items, but you also want things retired, so then those 50 people would be the only people to have the item? 

You didn’t answer the rest of my questions. 😛 How would you implement this? Why would creators be willing to STOP selling their items after three months - what is in it for them? SL changes so quickly with prim/mesh/Rigged/animesh/land impact.... it might NOT sell years down the line, regardless as to it’s rarity. SL is not like RL in that regard. I just cleared out nearly all my non mesh items from my inventory just last week because of the textures being outdated, land impact, etc.  

SL is very much about the here and now. 

[FairreLilette]

8 minutes ago, Pamela Galli said:

You are talking about supply affecting price, not demand. People don’t want things more just because there are fewer of them.

Yeah, agreed.  I don't want all Gacha's just because there are less of them.

But, I would want to purchase the Gacha's I like because they are retiring in said amount of time ________________ (fill in the blank amount of time).

[FairreLilette]

14 minutes ago, norajulian said:

So you think it is a good idea to have mod copy items, but you also want things retired, so then those 50 people would be the only people to have the item? 

You didn’t answer the rest of my questions. 😛 How would you implement this? Why would creators be willing to STOP selling their items after three months - what is in it for them? SL changes so quickly with prim/mesh/Rigged/animesh/land impact.... it might NOT sell years down the line, regardless as to it’s rarity. SL is not like RL in that regard. I just cleared out nearly all my non mesh items from my inventory just last week because of the textures being outdated, land impact, etc.  

SL is very much about the here and now. 

Gacha's are supposed to retire in the first place.  At least that was my understanding of it.

And, the rest of your questions....retired.  lol  I don't have that much time.  You asked a lot.  

And, it's NOT mod copy items...it's mod/transfer or copy/mod.  So, could you please stop asking that question.  I will repeat myself.  We are discussing being able to change your mod/transfer Gacha item into a copy/mod item which some creator's are already doing.  

As to the question of what is in it for creator's:  I think it gets the name out there.  As I said, I would have never found the creator's I have found without Gacha.  

Uber and Gacha are two venues where I have found a lot of creator's I like I might not have found otherwise.  But, in Gacha, I am only interested in furniture of the antique and shabby chic genres.  I am not interested in wearable items.  

Edited April 24, 2019 by FairreLilette

[Janet Voxel]

To me, there’s nothing wrong with the concept of a gatcha.

The problem lies with what is often done with them (hello dozens of little items to make up the complete outfit and no copy furniture) and how they’re resold.

There’s nothing you can do on the first problem without it being punitive. There are creators that have machines that are fine. You can’t punish them for the creators that tap into the compulsive nature of human beings.

How to fix the reselling? Take them off of MP. No seriously, take them off of MP. Open up the Linden Flea Market. A sim, or sims where you get a little 512 plot for a nominal fee that you pay to LL. You set up your little stall, box up your little items and sell them. If someone rips you off, by selling a prim cube, hold them accountable. 

You clean up marketplace, get people out on the grid and you hold resellers more accountable. Three birds, one stone.

[norajulian]

20 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

And, the rest of your questions....retired.  lol  I don't have that much time.  You asked a lot.  

Ahhhhh. Convenient. 😉 

20 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

We are discussing being able to change your mod/transfer Gacha item into a copy/mod item which some creator's are already doing.  

I thought we were discussing retiring items? These are questions that must be asked! You opened up the floor to discussion, so I am asking questions. 

20 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

As to the question of what is in it for creator's:  I think it gets the name out there.  As I said, I would have never found the creator's I have found without gacha.

BUT if they retire items after so long, how would the name get out there? What if everyone that buys the gacha just rezzes it on their land and leaves it there? What if they sell it (mind you, the seller would make the big money, NOT the creator) and then the person who buys it leaves it in their inventory or leaves SL? How would that get the name out there? 

 

Again (again): How would you implement this? 

Edited April 24, 2019 by norajulian

[FairreLilette]

2 minutes ago, janetosilio said:

To me, there’s nothing wrong with the concept of a gatcha.

The problem lies with what is often done with them (hello dozens of little items to make up the complete outfit and no copy furniture) and how they’re resold.

There’s nothing you can do on the first problem without it being punitive. There are creators that have machines that are fine. You can’t punish them for the creators that tap into the compulsive nature of human beings.

How to fix the reselling? Take them off of MP. No seriously, take them off of MP. Open up the Linden Flea Market. A sim, or sims where you get a little 512 plot for a nominal fee that you pay to LL. You set up your little stall, box up your little items and sell them. If someone rips you off, by selling a prim cube, hold them accountable. 

You clean up marketplace, get people out on the grid and you hold resellers more accountable. Three birds, one stone.

Yeah, I like the idea of off of Marketplace.  Marketplace is not user-created.  It is owned by LL.  

What do you think LL would say?

As, for myself, being a real antiques and collectibles dealer, I love "antiquing" out in the sims just like you would in rl.  But, I want to find more rare items...not tune in to MP and find 5 pages of just one of the items from a whole Gacha collection.  And, as far as the "rares"...blah, there are too many of those.  There is one rare is am interested in and it has over a page and a half of the rare on MP, so I am not interested now.  As that doesn't seem very "rare" to me.  

Gacha still needs more of a turn-over or a supply reduction.  

[FairreLilette]

21 minutes ago, norajulian said:

Ahhhhh. Convenient. 😉 

I thought we were discussing retiring items? These are questions that must be asked! You opened up the floor to discussion, so I am asking questions. 

BUT if they retire items after so long, how would the name get out there? What if everyone that buys the gacha just rezzes it on their land and leaves it there? What if they sell it (mind you, the seller would make the big money, NOT the creator) and then the person who buys it leaves it in their inventory or leaves SL? How would that get the name out there? 

 

Again (again): How would you implement this? 

Read the OP to see the two ideas adressed by me Nora.

Changing mod/transfer to copy/mod is in the OP.  

Implement?   There is no implement implied.  This would be choice.  

And, again, Gachas are supposed to retire in the first place.

And, "what if's".  I don't have time for what if cuz who knows if that would happen or not.  shrugs.

Edited April 24, 2019 by FairreLilette

[Zeta Vandyke]

For me the only reason I would ever get back into buying gacha from the machines, is if I could return each unwanted item directly on the spot and receive some value for it. Maybe points, and at certain points you can pick items from the same machine?

Current system I ignore Gacha's entirely or occasionally buy something of MP directly if I really want an item. I'm a client that wants to buy a certain item, not a dealer/reseller of your unwanted junk. So giving them points value to eventually get the item I want "could" motivate me to use the system.

 

[Eva Knoller]

33 minutes ago, Zeta Vandyke said:

For me the only reason I would ever get back into buying gacha from the machines, is if I could return each unwanted item directly on the spot and receive some value for it. Maybe points, and at certain points you can pick items from the same machine?

Current system I ignore Gacha's entirely or occasionally buy something of MP directly if I really want an item. I'm a client that wants to buy a certain item, not a dealer/reseller of your unwanted junk. So giving them points value to eventually get the item I want "could" motivate me to use the system.

 

From my understanding the Epiphany event works this way. You can unpack the box OR get points and the box disappears. This is only useful if you want an item that can be purchased with points. It also takes a heck of a lot of points to get anything. The points carry over from past events, though. 

[Arduenn Schwartzman]

20 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

[0)] first RETIRE all the Gacha items

1)  Machines that expire in three months and those items are now retired.  A hover text would appear above the retired machine and the retired items would be put on a bulletin board. 

2)  Be able to exchange your Gacha 2 item for a copy, mod version.  You turn in your mod/transfer version for a copy/mod version.  (I saw this on one creator's sim...I thought it was a great idea.)  

Thanks in advance for any output.

That's a lot to ask from all the different residents who (re)sell Gachas. Because LL sure as hell is not going to withdraw gacha items for the sake of being a gacha item. It's also a lot to ask from the gacha makers.

I propose a simpler, more cost-effective solution:

[Selene Gregoire]

1 hour ago, Zeta Vandyke said:

For me the only reason I would ever get back into buying gacha from the machines, is if I could return each unwanted item directly on the spot and receive some value for it. Maybe points, and at certain points you can pick items from the same machine?

Current system I ignore Gacha's entirely or occasionally buy something of MP directly if I really want an item. I'm a client that wants to buy a certain item, not a dealer/reseller of your unwanted junk. So giving them points value to eventually get the item I want "could" motivate me to use the system.

 

There is already a system in place for sellers that keeps account of how much you purchase and grants an increasing discount. Something similar could be easily coded or the current gacha system(s) could be modified.

This coupled with giving gachas their own section or even their own market place would kill a few hundred birds with two stones.