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Re: Gacha Missing and EMPTY BOXES....


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2 minutes ago, Finite said:

Lol. Have you seen the devil game in SL? I forget what its called. Something Devil. If that game has lasted as long as it has without any regulation then I don't see anything happening to gacha any time soon. At least you get equity from gacha.

I haven't. All I know is, LL is even lazier than EA, and won't take action on illegal stuff until they're facing legal consequences. That's why we saw the gambling and banking changes. 

Similarly, we won't see a change in gacha until the laws change- but the fact that even EA stopped doing them means there's a good chance of the laws changing if companies don't start getting their act together. 

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Hm. Hmm. Well, even if it's a bit of a necro, it does give an opportunity to bash gachas, so ..    ... Gachas are obvious gambling á la lootboxes and should be banned on the same grounds, and if

This thread has been closed after being reopened from 2019, and going way off topic. Thank you all for your participation!

Gambling is gambling, even when you call it a lootbox or a gacha. Just a matter of time before legislation forces LL to ban 'em.  Even EA did away with them, seeing the writing on the wall, and E

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2 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

I haven't. All I know is, LL is even lazier than EA, and won't take action on illegal stuff until they're facing legal consequences. That's why we saw the gambling and banking changes. 

Similarly, we won't see a change in gacha until the laws change- but the fact that even EA stopped doing them means there's a good chance of the laws changing if companies don't start getting their act together. 

Look up No Devil secondlife. This if off OP so I don't want to divulge too much into it as it'll likely go down it's own rabbit hole. But ya that's what it's called.

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6 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

Some full perm kits are well over 1000K lindens I want.  That's a lot of money! 

    L$1,000K is hardly a serious price tag. There's people who've put up prim cubes for thousands of lindens too, that doesn't mean that 'buying plywood-textured prims on the marketplace is expensive'. Even fullperm clothes tend to cost L$250-500 depending on brand, I've bought plenty of mugs, beer bottles, and similar nicknacks for L$25-50, and furniture for no more than clothing.

13 minutes ago, Finite said:

Look up No Devil secondlife. This if off OP so I don't want to divulge too much into it as it'll likely go down it's own rabbit hole. But ya that's what it's called.

   No Devil 'should' only be allowed in skill gaming regions, from which users connecting from countries or states with laws against online gambling don't have access. That people put them in other regions is an offense that will be addressed by LL only if someone ARs it to put it to their attention - they can hardly be expected to keep track of every thing people put in all regions.

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5 minutes ago, Orwar said:

No Devil 'should' only be allowed in skill gaming regions, from which users connecting from countries or states with laws against online gambling don't have access. That people put them in other regions is an offense that will be addressed by LL only if someone ARs it to put it to their attention - they can hardly be expected to keep track of every thing people put in all regions.

 

24 minutes ago, Finite said:

Look up No Devil secondlife. This if off OP so I don't want to divulge too much into it as it'll likely go down it's own rabbit hole. But ya that's what it's called.

Oh damn... what did I do....

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1 minute ago, Finite said:

 

Oh damn... what did I do....

Tis the way of the forums -- mention anything, no matter how much of a tangent, and the repsonses might likely go there.

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2 minutes ago, Finite said:

Oh damn... what did I do....

   You're not going to end an argument by trying to claim that it's 'too OP to be discussed' after just having dropped a statement that's entirely void by the Second Life terms of use. If you bring it up in a topic as an argument, it's now part of the topic. Going off-topic would be to ignore the discussion and start spamming cat pictures to willfully derail the thread. 

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Just now, Orwar said:

   You're not going to end an argument by trying to claim that it's 'too OP to be discussed' after just having dropped a statement that's entirely void by the Second Life terms of use. If you bring it up in a topic as an argument, it's now part of the topic. Going off-topic would be to ignore the discussion and start spamming cat pictures to willfully derail the thread. 

My comments were in reference to the rest of the discussion about gachas but I had a funny feeling someone would home in on that comment without the context of the rest of the discussion going on at the time so I tossed in a little disclaimer (which didn't work apparently). Not trying to "end an argument". Don't think I was making one to begin with. Just trying to continue a discussion without it going of the rails.

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20 minutes ago, Finite said:

Not trying to "end an argument". Don't think I was making one to begin with.

Sometimes it's better to not leave the subject out when it's not exactly clear if you mean yourself (I) or someone else.

I can't decide if you mean "I'm not" and "I don't think" or if you mean "You're not" and "I don't think". I'm not trying to correct your grammar, I'm trying to ascertain your meaning and I'm not quite seeing it. A little help please? 😊

Edited by Silent Mistwalker
yes I make a lot of typos... at least I [i]try[/i] to fix them
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11 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

Sometimes it's better to not leave the subject out when it's not exactly clear if you mean yourself (I) or someone else.

I can't decide if you mean "I'm not" and "I don't think" or if you mean "You're not" and "I don't think". I'm not trying to correct your grammar, I'm trying to ascertain your meaning and I'm not quite seeing it. A little help please? 😊

It's not poor grammar at all. In fact it's quite common (and proper especially in English since we don't like redundancies) in both English and Latin languages to leave out "I" when it's already been implied. 

Edited by Finite
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1 minute ago, Finite said:

It not poor grammar at all. In fact it's quite common (and proper especially in English since we don't like redundancies) in both English and Latin languages to leave out "I" when it's already been implied. 

I know that. I said I know that. I'm saying I can't be certain if that is what you mean without asking you if that is what you mean. Please read the first sentence of my second paragraph again and look at the difference between the two (not four). 

Quote

I can't decide if you mean "I'm not" and "I don't think" or if you mean "You're not" and "I don't think".

 

"I" isn't always implied depending on context. I am asking you to clarify your context so I understand it, please.

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1 minute ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

I know that. I said I know that. I'm saying I can't be certain if that is what you mean without asking you if that is what you mean. Please read the first sentence of my second paragraph again and look at the difference between the two (not four). 

 

"I" isn't always implied depending on context. I am asking you to clarify your context so I understand it, please.

I got u. no worries. xD

My comments were in reference to the rest of the discussion about gachas but I had a funny feeling someone would home in on that comment without the context of the rest of the discussion going on at the time so I tossed in a little disclaimer (which didn't work apparently). (I'm) Not trying to "end an argument". ( I )Don't think I was making one to begin with. (I'm) Just trying to continue a discussion without it going of the rails.

Fixed I hope. I probably should have closed the statement with an "I'm".

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4 minutes ago, Finite said:

I got u. no worries. xD

My comments were in reference to the rest of the discussion about gachas but I had a funny feeling someone would home in on that comment without the context of the rest of the discussion going on at the time so I tossed in a little disclaimer (which didn't work apparently). (I'm) Not trying to "end an argument". ( I )Don't think I was making one to begin with. (I'm) Just trying to continue a discussion without it going of the rails.

Fixed I hope. I probably should have closed the statement with an "I'm".

 

Thank you! Now it makes sense. ☺️

Sometimes we are better off not busting the driver's side window out of the truck with our heads. 😉

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5 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

 

Thank you! Now it makes sense. ☺️

Sometimes we are better off not busting the driver's side window out of the truck with our heads. 😉

Ha no worries. I have to admit that it sounds weird to me hearing "I'm" multiple times in an apparent first-person thought. And goes against just about everything I've learned in college writing I and II as well as in engineering writing.

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2 minutes ago, Finite said:

Ha no worries. I have to admit that it sounds weird to me hearing "I'm" multiple times in an apparent first-person thought. And goes against just about everything I've learned in college writing I and II as well as in engineering writing.

Clarity trumps redundancy in the forums.

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5 minutes ago, Finite said:

Ha no worries. I have to admit though that it sounds weird to me hearing "I'm" multiple times in an apparent first-person thought.

 

lol 

What's weird is when you (me) know what they said was, "The cat in the hat is back." and what you actually hear is, "The hat in the black is cat." 😆

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Just now, Silent Mistwalker said:

 

lol 

What's weird is when you (me) know what they said what, "The cat in the hat is back." and what you actually hear is, "The hat in the black is cat." 😆

That's usually me typing faster than I process thoughts.

Thought:

"The cat in the hat is black."

Actually typed:

"The hat in the black is cat."

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1 minute ago, Finite said:

That's usually me typing faster than I process thoughts.

Thought:

"The cat in the hat is black."

Actually typed:

"The hat in the black is cat."

 

That's my typing.

And my hearing.

A lot like missing gachas and empty boxes on the MP.  Sometimes it's a major PITA, sometimes not.

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17 hours ago, Pris Aquila said:

I'm having the same problem. First it was losing adorable Mutresse Shortie Cats "Annoyed" and now a Scarlet Creative house that I paid $400L for! What is the deal?

Aside from the possibility that the seller has sold you an empty box (whether accidentally or deliberately), there's another possibility.

IF the gacha box attaches to your screen as a hud, and you click to unpack, you may not get the item because some unpacker scripts can't unpack a no-copy item if the box is worn - they are trying to COPY the item into your inventory and obviously a no-copy item won't copy. In this case, you should rez the box/hud on the ground instead, open it the old-fashioned way. (Right click, Open, Copy to Inventory).

 

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3 hours ago, So Whimsy said:

Thanks for the chuckle!

LOL, Whimsy.  Are you the only one who saw I wrote "Apple Farm" instead of "Apple Fall"?  

There is a rather ritzy country inn in central California called The Apple Farm.   Pic for proof.  LOL  No, there really is...this is it.

applefarm.jpg

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On 4/22/2019 at 9:37 AM, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Re. the empty box, I've often wondered about this, particularly when one is buying a "rare": what happens when the reseller runs out of the item that's for sale on the marketplace? Presumably, the item needs to be removed from the MP, and it is the reseller who must do that. And if they don't, and someone buys an item that is no longer available, an empty box is sent instead?

This hasn't happened to me . . . but I haven't bought many gacha from the MP. But it does sound as though one has to rely upon the reseller to keep tabs on their inventory, or be organized (and ethical) enough to offer refunds when an item no longer available has been purchased.

Another reason to rather dislike gacha, maybe.

But that's NOT how gatcha sales work on the MP. And given the propensity for people to ask for handouts and refunds who didn't actually buy something and may have actually received it, I see no reason to offer refunds as a courtesy on the MP. Like thousands of other gatcha re-sellers, I put a disclaimer on my profile (not in every listing so as not to annoy you with extra texts the way many officious people do) that says a system that delivers from my inventory directly to yours is not one that I provide refunds for. So buyer beware. Far fewer people can try the scam of claiming something didn't deliver now that the system has direct delivery.

When you upload an item that is a single copy, it automatically becomes "Limited Quantities".

When it sells, there is no empty box that stays on the MP; the file for that item falls back into the "Unlisted" category in my experience in 99.9% of cases. So your idea that after a sale, an empty box remains for sale for people to buy it is incorrect -- the system does not work that way.

Yes, I suppose in theory you can have a situation of a buyer getting an empty box and you having an empty set of file folders - but I've actually never seen it happen that way. In my experience buyers don't get gatchas more because the box didn't deliver at all, than because they actually got an empty original merchant's box with no gatcha in it.

While it's possible to take a plywood box, label it exactly the same as the gatcha, put nothing in it, and sell it, I would say close to 100% of the gatcha sellers on the MP do not do that or gatcha selling would simply never work on the MP as everyone would lose confidence in it. It's much easier to FIND gatchas on the MP and often they are cheaper than what is selling world. So everyone interested in them is motivated. In my personal history of buying many gatchas on the MP, I have never gotten an empty box with no rare gatcha in it. Because most people are decent. 

I have literally sold thousands of gatchas, some very expensive rares. I have had exactly 3 times an empty box situation has occurred in the 5 years I have been doing this, and all of them in the last year, not in the previous years (maybe the system is more stressed now).

The first time it happened, the person who got an empty box from the original merchant immediately denounced me as a thief and kept on loudly accusing me of theft publicly in groups, etc. I looked on my account, I didn't see any box. I know definitely I put that gatcha in the box. I had one two of them. One I put in world with the rest of the set set and deleted its box. The other I checked multiple times to make sure it was in the box and put it on the MP.

So why didn't it deliver? It has one job to do, deliver, and with a recent feature of the MP (of 2 years ago?), deliveries go straight from my inventory to yours, so its chances of not delivering are far less. So why is the box empty? I have no idea. I wonder if this is even possible if you have set it up right. That is,  again, for that to happen you would have to either deliberately or accidentally put an empty merchant's box up on the MP with no gatcha in it. I think actually that's why many gatcha merchants create sales boxes that are on "no modify" so that once you take the item out of their box, you can't re-use their box again. They don't like complaint tickets from careless or unscrupulous people. Better to put it on no-mod! (They also do this because some gatcha events have special points or coupons that enable you to get the points instead of the item if you click to destroy it in that special system.)

I began to wonder if this loud denouncer was scamming me, making an accusation that was so heinous I would send him a $1000 gatcha to close the matter. He kept saying he was a famous merchant because he was in some popular events. Ok, I had never heard of him but who cares? He did seem to be in public events. It never occurred to him that since I was a long-time public figure in business, too, that I had no motivation to scam him in this sordid way.

He then began to announce haughtily that he simply went and got another one since he was that rich. The loudness with which he denounced me and the rapidity with which he got another one seemed awfully sus, but then, things happen. I publicized this incident on my blog so that there'd be a place the Internet could remember if he kept up any private denunciation of me. It was not in my inventory. Not in unlisted. Not in the trash. Not in the inventory not put in the Marketplace. Not inworld where I had the display of the whole set. So, in the ether? Who knows. No, I don't do the right thing and give someone $1000 anyway, as I will do with the odd time a rental box malfunctions of someone claiming to have paid beyond the 3 months visible on web accounts. Why? Because people who engage in reputational damage and denunciations in a space where good faith pretty much predominates, despite everything that can be awful about the MP do not get that courtesy.

The second time this happened, I was dismayed because I thought I couldn't possibly now defend a false charge. But this person simply quietly asked me if I could check my unlisted or my trash or my main inventory not yet on the MP. I checked unlisted, and there it was. It had become unlisted with the original merchant's box and with the rare gatcha still in it. I took it out of the MP, made sure we were both online and sent it to the buyer, as I saw her payment on the web site. We do have that backup to at least show if someone made any payment at all. She got it, and the incident was closed.

The third time this happened, I was checking my inventory which I constantly do. If I happen to have multiple copies of a gatcha I won, I put another one in the "unlisted" folder after the first copy sells, first carefully deleting the bottom file so that it goes into "listing" again. Note: it is not possible to relist an empty set of file folders. The Lindens have obviously thought this thing through. This strikes me as a cumbersome and maybe flawed routine for selling of additional copies, but we're all used to doing it and I don't know how you'd make a better one.

So again, I saw a very high-cost ultrarare sitting in my Unlisted, inexplicably, despite her payment visible on the web account. I contacted the buyer and asked her if she could check her inventory and be sure to open up the box. She wasn't even aware she hadn't received it because like a lot of buyers, myself included, things pile up in inventory and you don't have time to sort, display, or resell them and they drift slowly down into the sediments of the pre-historic era, never to be found again until you log on, notice that your inventory didn't all re-load, clear cache, clear cache again, file a ticket, and try to get a Linden to process a lost inventory claim. She confirmed she didn't receive it at all -- not an empty box, but nothing -- which seemed sensible as there it was in my Unlisted, and again, I took it off the MP and sent it to her live.

This did not discourage me from selling on the MP, or buying, nor should it discourage you, as it illustrates that loss is often a matter of not sending from the system and can be recovered from Unlisted, in my case, 2 out of 3 times, assuming the loud denouncer wasn't a scammer, which I don't think he was as a public figure in business. I don't suggest this is a relevant number at all, but I think a system that has served me, a willing seller, and others, willing buyers, at a price where we can meet, which is usually undermarket on commons and not some ridiculous sum on rares, is a really great tool in our gatchified market where most of us have lost more than we can recover, and have received items we actually never used.

In this history of my virtual life, having lost even 15,000 inventory items on one occasion, and numerous gatchas for inexplicable reasons, rezzed out inworld (but not those on the MP) I have only gotten the Lindens to refund one set of gatcha purchases, one time, with a message not to expect that again. I was on a sim. I played a gatcha and won 8 things. Their names and the fact of winning them was in chat with full names and prices as they always are with most well-made gatcha machines. I happened to copy that chat because that's an easier way to see what they are and loads faster than inventory does and then can make putting them on the MP later if you decide you don't want all of them.

Then I caaaarrreeefully went up to the right-hand upper side of my viewer, and accepted those 8 wins -- they stay up there until you accept them and they go into your inventory. This is why merchants tell you not to TP away from the sim until you get them safely tucked in. If you TP'd away before accepting them, that's on you. But I made sure I had them in inventory and saw them there. When I got back to my sim to sort out what I'd do with them, they were gone. I tried refreshing inventory. I tried relogging and clearing cache 3 times. They were gone. I at least had a handy list of them from chat. Knowing that particular merchant would never answer my ticket as she never had in 5 years except with the most icy disdain, I went to the Lindens, who are nicer these days than some people in SL. I thought, "you never know". A tenant told me she got back a gatcha lost in exactly this way that she could document with inworld chat and her web purchase history. The gatcha itself was returned, which is possible sometimes if you file a ticket quickly enough with Support. A Linden (or even you yourself) can go up and see your movements and TPs on the server records).

To my utter surprise, a Linden contacted me within 3 days and said he couldn't get the gatchas back to me, including a rare as it happened. They were gone. What he could do is as a courtesy this one time only is return me 8 x $50 (he's not going to return the market price of a rare, obviously). I wouldn't try this again, and I don't plan to. Maybe the same people who had gotten tickets from me for the 15,000 lost items for weeks on end felt bad -- I didn't get any compensation there, although they did change the messages on Trash for everyone in the system. No, I didn't inadvertently throw out 15,000 things, it's a more complicated story but whatever.

In general, uploading and selling gatchas is such a chore that I really have to force myself to do it but we all know they sell better on the MP than world, simply because they can be found easily. Only one big gatcha yard has used the place pages system to make the system show every single gatcha for sale, so that you can peruse the offerings and TP right to a gatcha. Really handy feature, and I *think* this was a matter of getting the Linden system, evidently in conjunction with Firestorm area search, to create this great thing. The rest can't or won't do this. (I'm sure not going to spend the time with my inworld stores.)

Why another long post from me? For posterity, help to newbies, and anthropologists studying virtual economies.

Because when socialists denounce a market that is thriving in SL merely because they routinely denounce capitalism, I speak up loud and long. It's destructive of people's livelihoods in some cases, or their compensations for expenses, and socialists shouldn't do that, ever, in quest of ideological purity. If they wish to denounce some flaw of capitalism because they hate capitalism, at least describe the flaw accurately. If you upload a gatcha in the box it came in from the merchant, there is no way for the Linden-coded system to keep selling an empty box, even if that box happens to be on copy, and the gatcha is of course on transfer. That is a built-in feature of the system that helps fireproof it. The only way for an empty box to keep on selling is if someone deliberately puts an empty plywood box labeled exactly like the original item, or an empty merchant's box on transfer. And again, that's why the lion's share of merchants either put container boxes not on transfer, or put them not on mod, so that no one can use their empty box as a re-selling gambit.

Gatcha is a market that gives a way for people who aren't programmers and who aren't graphics artists and who can't invest the cash you need to invest to start a land business or a skilled games business a way to participate in the economy and not only live off the Linden $300/wk pension if they have premium, or the kindness of strangers or sugar daddies.

The space of used items on transfer, mainly gatchas, is where you can gain from the miracle of SL, too, and not sit on the sidelines while the creators and the wealthy take home all the loot even as they embrace socialist ideals.

 

Edited by Prokofy Neva
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14 hours ago, Finite said:

Ha no worries. I have to admit that it sounds weird to me hearing "I'm" multiple times in an apparent first-person thought. And goes against just about everything I've learned in college writing I and II as well as in engineering writing.

Totally got you :)

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