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TMP Legacy mesh body

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1 hour ago, Katt Dragoone said:

Everyone complaining will end upjoining giveaway 🤣

It is more like a raffle.  100 units over a period of 30 days (or 31 days, depending on interpretation).

Edited by Erwin Solo

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4 hours ago, Erwin Solo said:

There is frankly no reason for the head to be a separate mesh

Actually, there is. Because heads came long before bodies did and they are separate skill sets. I'm not saying it's optimal or right, I am saying there is a reason.

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9 hours ago, Katt Dragoone said:

Everyone complaining will end up joining the giveaway 🤣

. . .guilty as charged. I like free stuff as much as anybody else.

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10 hours ago, Katt Dragoone said:

Everyone complaining will end up joining the giveaway 🤣

Yes it's quite obvious. A majority of people like free stuff. So yes, they will enter a contest to get said free stuff.

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On 11/16/2019 at 9:50 AM, Erwin Solo said:

The models are opensource from Linden Labs at http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Project_Bento_Resources_and_Information .  

The default classic avatar body and a Bento body provided as an example are both open source. But, that is the classic body SL peeps have complained about ever since I came in in 2008. It is a 7k+ polygon body, head, and feet+hands. There are problems with the UV map and the weighting. The mesh bodies, heads, feet, and hands are all new topology mesh imports. Most designed from scratch.

The reason we have clothes specifically for Maitreya, Belleza, Slink, etc. is that each designer has made custom weighting when rigging the mesh body to the armature (skeleton). That is done because of the problems in the Linden open source body's weighting. So, for a tight fit the clothes designers design for a specific custom body.

Press Ctrl-Shift-R to see the difference in mesh bodies from the SL open source body.

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19 minutes ago, Nalates Urriah said:

The default classic avatar body and a Bento body provided as an example are both open source. But, that is the classic body SL peeps have complained about ever since I came in in 2008. It is a 7k+ polygon body, head, and feet+hands. There are problems with the UV map and the weighting. The mesh bodies, heads, feet, and hands are all new topology mesh imports. Most designed from scratch.

The reason we have clothes specifically for Maitreya, Belleza, Slink, etc. is that each designer has made custom weighting when rigging the mesh body to the armature (skeleton). That is done because of the problems in the Linden open source body's weighting. So, for a tight fit the clothes designers design for a specific custom body.

Press Ctrl-Shift-R to see the difference in mesh bodies from the SL open source body.

Well, the context was detachable heads and neck seams.  Since the 2002/3 beta, has something fundamentally changed in mesh or skeleton technology such that it is now essential to have a detachable head with a neck seam?  

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On 11/11/2019 at 12:34 PM, halebore Aeon said:

To be quite frank speaking about Nalates earlier post, I don't think many people will change to BOM. They really don't understand that these system layers have been updated, and a lot of skin companies have been creating updates, with system layers in their packages. A lot of people think, we are gonna go back to the days of 512 by 512 and that it will make their avatar not look as pretty. But maybe if they gave it a try, with the skins they have. They would understand, that it has changed a lot since then.

I agree, but I think the logic runs another way.  The resolution of the skin-textures could have increased to 1024x1024 to provide better looking skins, but that didn't happen.  So, the user community hacked around it with mesh bodies, and once we had escaped the 512x512 constraint at the expense of incredible complexity, we then just grabbed the mesh in Blender, hit the "scale" shortcut and scaled out by a small amount (perhaps 0.5%) to make new onionskin layers.  Having done so, we could do it over and over again and have all the onionskin layers that we could use. 

BOM came along and gave us the 1024x1024 skins we should have had in 2013, and tried to put Pandora back in the box, but (a) it was too late, and (b) BOM lacked material support (i.e., normal and specular channels).  

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On 11/16/2019 at 7:21 PM, Varistentia Varriale said:

Big (ultimate even) giveaway happening right now: https://www.meshbody.com  :) 

 

500 off the body if bought during this is not enough. If it was half price during this, it would have many who sit on the fence now, buy it. Me included. Maybe. I still see Maitreya only in some stores I shop from. Stores that sometimes enter Fifty Linden Friday.

If Maitreya goes the way of Slink Physique and the new clothes made declined for it, that would make me change to the body with best and most new content. But, I doubt Maitreya will experience a drop in creators who support it, in this year, next year ++.

I have entered the contest, of course. Free is free.

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9 hours ago, Marianne Little said:

500 off the body if bought during this is not enough. If it was half price during this, it would have many who sit on the fence now, buy it. Me included. Maybe. I still see Maitreya only in some stores I shop from. Stores that sometimes enter Fifty Linden Friday.

If Maitreya goes the way of Slink Physique and the new clothes made declined for it, that would make me change to the body with best and most new content. But, I doubt Maitreya will experience a drop in creators who support it, in this year, next year ++.

I have entered the contest, of course. Free is free.

I agree. $500 off is not enough to tempt me. But I’ll take it for free if I win the contest!

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24 minutes ago, Eva Knoller said:

I agree. $500 off is not enough to tempt me. But I’ll take it for free if I win the contest!

I never owned the original TMP mesh body, not on this avatar at least. I kinda had a lot of memories with the other one, and decided to switch to my oldest account. But I feel that it was well worth the Linden, I have multiple bodies and like to switch frequently. But this brings more to my multiple facets of my personality, something that the other bodies don't.

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10 minutes ago, halebore Aeon said:

I never owned the original TMP mesh body, not on this avatar at least. I kinda had a lot of memories with the other one, and decided to switch to my oldest account. But I feel that it was well worth the Linden, I have multiple bodies and like to switch frequently. But this brings more to my multiple facets of my personality, something that the other bodies don't.

Sure, that makes sense. I just prefer to spend my $L budget on a million bento heads and hair.

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2 minutes ago, Eva Knoller said:

Sure, that makes sense. I just prefer to spend my $L budget on a million bento heads and hair.

For me it's more of a treat, I got my body as a birthday gift for myself. So I didn't go out and splurge 5k, right when it came out. I treated myself :)

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On 11/16/2019 at 7:21 PM, Varistentia Varriale said:

Big (ultimate even) giveaway happening right now: https://www.meshbody.com  :)

Wait, wait, wait... THAT is their official website? Seriously? I mean, really? No joke?

It looks like something escaped from the early web design days, hosted on Tripod or Geocities. 😲

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18 hours ago, Erwin Solo said:

Well, the context was detachable heads and neck seams.  Since the 2002/3 beta, has something fundamentally changed in mesh or skeleton technology such that it is now essential to have a detachable head with a neck seam?  

Yes. The original SL head sliders work with morphs hard-coded into the viewer. The modern (post-Bento) heads are modifiable because they're rigged to bones. This rigging is less flexible than the morphs were so in order to have a wider range of possible head shapes the head should be removable. The presence of a seam itself doesn't automatically mean there will be a mismatch - all bodies that use alpha-cut system have dozens of seams that are normally invisible.

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22 hours ago, Erwin Solo said:

Well, the context was detachable heads and neck seams.  Since the 2002/3 beta, has something fundamentally changed in mesh or skeleton technology such that it is now essential to have a detachable head with a neck seam?  

The SL classic/BOM avatars have always been 3 parts; head, upper, and lower. The files the Lab provided provide an avatar in parts. Modelers had to assemble them into head, upper, and lower. As that is the way the skin textures work on the avatar or said another way... the "faces" (like prim faces) on the classic avatar are three. SO the skin textures are made  in 3 parts to fit to the 3 faces.

None of the Linden made avatars have detachable parts. The avatar is built into the viewer. We can't tweak it. System alpha layers are used to hide parts of the classic avatar and now BOM mesh avatars. Originally that started with feet then progressed to hands. The new mesh bodies are moving back toward a single body with hands and feet as part of the body. This reduces the number of attachment points needed.

Heads have so far remained apart from this consolidation trend. People are particular about the face. The only way to have the variety people want is to have various people sculpting heads. There is no technological reason for the separation. This is basic free market pressure shaping what is being created. I love my Slink Original, hands, and feet. I do not care for any of the Slink made heads. So, I have GA.EG head.

The seam in the neck has pretty much been there forever. What has changed is how designers handle matching up the body and head meshes. The build in classic avatar has one set of vertices on the body neck seam, which changes how the adjacent polygons are rendered. The mesh body and head has two sets of vertices on the seam. This is an area where things are curved and the render of those polygons tends to make the seam stand out. Those designers that understand how polygons are shaded have less problem with the seam, basically making it less noticeable. This is why some heads or bodies have another row of polygons extending past the seam this forcing the render to be more like the classic avatar. Different designers try different seam matching techniques.

The bigger problem is users not understanding how to minimize the effect. With mesh bodies we can use materials. It can be a pain getting the head and body using the same material and matching all the material settings. That problem is going to stay with us because people want materials and a large choice of heads. 

Edited by Nalates Urriah
correction
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2 hours ago, Lillith Hapmouche said:

Wait, wait, wait... THAT is their official website? Seriously? I mean, really? No joke?

It looks like something escaped from the early web design days, hosted on Tripod or Geocities. 😲

Needs more marquee text in rainbow comic sans.

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1 hour ago, AyelaNewLife said:

Needs more marquee text in rainbow comic sans.

   Bursts in through the door. Did someone say ... Comic Sans?!

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Has this body gotten any significant updates yet? It's really hard to find any of public changelog. In particular reduced script count or the ability to delete them all, fewer layers and some kind of fix for the gaps?

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31 minutes ago, Cinos Field said:

Has this body gotten any significant updates yet?

   Updates? From TMP? Hah.

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7 minutes ago, Orwar said:

   Updates? From TMP? Hah.

All jokes aside if they actually did push out an update soon I'd actually accept that as proof of them having changed their ways. One can always hope.

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1 minute ago, Cinos Field said:

All jokes aside if they actually did push out an update soon I'd actually accept that as proof of them having changed their ways. One can always hope.

Most mesh body companies, take a bit to pump out updates. Maybe except for Signature, who was already on it when we knew BOM was coming out. But, Look at Maitreya and even Belleza, it took Belleza 2 years to make their bodies Bento ready.

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1 hour ago, Cinos Field said:

Has this body gotten any significant updates yet? It's really hard to find any of public changelog. In particular reduced script count or the ability to delete them all, fewer layers and some kind of fix for the gaps?

https://www.meshbody.com/updates

The website is like their in-world store: A horrible experience to move around in.

Edited by Alyona Su
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