TMP Legacy mesh body

[Kia Kiyori]

5 minutes ago, halebore Aeon said:

All bodies are not really well optimized though, you just gotta find the one you really like. Lol. I actually switch back and forth between Maitreya and Legacy, depending on my mood

There's nothing more beautiful than Legacy for photography but I felt so guilty contributing to 'lag pollution' that I honestly went back to wearing Maitreya full time.

[Sammy Huntsman]

2 minutes ago, AnyaJurelle said:

There's nothing more beautiful than Legacy for photography but I felt so guilty contributing to 'lag pollution' that I honestly went back to wearing Maitreya full time.

All other bodies contribute to lag just as much, but it's really not the bodies. If you are like me, and have your avatars complexity really low, and be mindful what you wear. Even with a Legacy body, you will still look good and maintain a lower complexity as well as be a good person for trying your best to keep your overall complexity down. My complexity in SL never goes above 100k, and I think I do a really good job with my avatars appearance.

[Kia Kiyori]

18 minutes ago, halebore Aeon said:

All other bodies contribute to lag just as much, but it's really not the bodies. If you are like me, and have your avatars complexity really low, and be mindful what you wear. Even with a Legacy body, you will still look good and maintain a lower complexity as well as be a good person for trying your best to keep your overall complexity down. My complexity in SL never goes above 100k, and I think I do a really good job with my avatars appearance.

Try on your different bodies with exactly the same clothes - grab a script counter - and see how low you can go with Legacy.

I couldn't get the script count down below the recommended 3mb for attending concerts, which was annoying - but with Maitreya it's a breeze.

Clothes made for Legacy also tend to have high L.I. and in general don't include delete script options - except for Blueberry, who does go the extra mile and give that option.

In general, I found all things Legacy to really contribute to lag pollution.

[Orion Pastorelli]

For me, 50 K complexity is my soft limit, what I try to aim for. That said, my complexity score is usually around 60 K -75 K. 100K, for me,  is a "hard" limit that I will only go over for photos.  I would never go out and about in public with a complexity score over 100K.

[Sammy Huntsman]

13 minutes ago, AnyaJurelle said:

Try on your different bodies with exactly the same clothes - grab a script counter - and see how low you can go with Legacy.

I couldn't get the script count down below the recommended 3mb for attending concerts, which was annoying - but with Maitreya it's a breeze.

Clothes made for Legacy also tend to have high L.I. and in general don't include delete script options - except for Blueberry, who does go the extra mile and give that option.

In general, I found all things Legacy to really contribute to lag pollution.

I am at 5mb, that is really not that bad. A little over 3, but still that is better than some people who have probably got in the 10s and 20s of mbs.

 

[Kia Kiyori]

2 minutes ago, Orion Pastorelli said:

For me, 50 K complexity is my soft limit, what I try to aim for. That said, my complexity score is usually around 60 K -75 K. 100K, for me,  is a "hard" limit that I will only go over for photos.  I would never go out and about in public with a complexity score over 100K.

Holy bananas, Batman!!!

[Sammy Huntsman]

3 minutes ago, Orion Pastorelli said:

For me, 50 K complexity is my soft limit, what I try to aim for. That said, my complexity score is usually around 60 K -75 K. 100K, for me,  is a "hard" limit that I will only go over for photos.  I would never go out and about in public with a complexity score over 100K.

I don't even go over that kinda complexity for photos either, my hard limit is 100k. But I usually stay between the 30k and 50k mark. I find that I would rather be considerate to others, and still try my best to look as good as possible. Which is quite possible, if you really take your time and look into everything you wear.

[Sammy Huntsman]

The issue is not primarily the bodies, it's what people wear to events and totally crowded places. Like do you need to do up your avatar to the nines, when you know that the place is gonna be packed? That is the issue, you can be script and complexity conscious with any body and head. You just gotta take into consideration of what you are wearing as well. Don't be going for all those accessories you own, or that companion pet. Just come as you are, with very minimum on.

[Kia Kiyori]

Just now, halebore Aeon said:

I am at 5mb, that is really not that bad. A little over 3, but still that is better than some people who have probably got in the 10s and 20s of mbs.

 

Yeah, that's not too bad.

You really notice it at concerts though. Atm I'm on 30k complexity and 1760mb script count (that would be a bit lower but DOUX hair doesn't allow you to delete scripts (Stealthic and Truth do). More often than not I'm between 20k-26k complexity.

[Orion Pastorelli]

6 minutes ago, AnyaJurelle said:

Holy bananas, Batman!!!

I can't tell if you think if 60 K -75 K is high or low... Please clarify. 

[Sammy Huntsman]

Just now, AnyaJurelle said:

Yeah, that's not too bad.

You really notice it at concerts though. Atm I'm on 30k complexity and 1760mb script count (that would be a bit lower but DOUX hair doesn't allow you to delete scripts (Stealthic and Truth do). More often than not I'm between 20k-26k complexity.

I honestly try to be considerate as possible with whatever body and head I wear. I will not go to a place dressed up with all my latest accessories, even in my day to day life. I will usually go with the bare minimum. But that is me.

[Kia Kiyori]

5 minutes ago, Orion Pastorelli said:

I can't tell if you think if 60 K -75 K is high or low... Please clarify. 

Sorry...high...I thought it was high   

[Cinos Field]

For the record, the Slink Hourglass is approximately 16.5k polygons. It's pretty darn optimized, so this notion of there being no optimized bodies is mildly bizarre.

(the complexity score isn't a good measurement - triangles, vertices and script time are)

Edited November 11, 2019 by Cinos Field

[Kia Kiyori]

5 minutes ago, Cinos Field said:

For the record, the Slink Hourglass is approximately 16.5k polygons. It's pretty darn optimized, so this notion of there being no optimized bodies is mildly bizarre.

(the complexity score isn't a good measurement - triangles, vertices and script time are)

I agree. I think most bodies are far better optimized than Legacy.

[Orion Pastorelli]

8 minutes ago, AnyaJurelle said:

Sorry...high...I thought it was high   

So whenever I find myself in a crowded space, for a moment, I will turn my complexity limit down to about 25K and compare my score to those around me. My score is usually among the lowest. Even though this is purely anecdotal, I still thought it was safe to say I was doing well.

Nevertheless, now I feel the need to compete and will endeavor to lower my average complexity score to the "20k-26k" range.

[Kia Kiyori]

3 minutes ago, Orion Pastorelli said:

So whenever I find myself in a crowded space, for a moment, I will turn my complexity limit down to about 25K and compare my score to those around me. My score is usually among the lowest. Even though this is purely anecdotal, I still thought it was safe to say I was doing well.

Nevertheless, now I feel the need to compete and will endeavor to lower my average complexity score to the "20k-26k" range.

Aww no don't feel the need to compete.

My preference comes purely from a sense of guilt; friends are entertainers and I kind of had a crash course what makes their lives miserable when they're giving performances - and it mostly boils down to complexity and scripts, so I began getting ruthless with my wardrobe. And body.

Hence, back to Maitreya.

[Orion Pastorelli]

15 minutes ago, Cinos Field said:

For the record, the Slink Hourglass is approximately 16.5k polygons. It's pretty darn optimized, so this notion of there being no optimized bodies is mildly bizarre.

(the complexity score isn't a good measurement - and script time are)

OK, here is the thing, what about texture memory usage? Correct me if I am wrong. I thought Visual Complexity was an aggregate score that took both geometry ( triangles & vertices) and texture memory usage into account, and that's what makes it so useful.

Side Note:  I am aware "script time" is a completely different metric that has nothing to do the visual aspect of SL.

[Cinos Field]

Just now, Orion Pastorelli said:

OK, here is the thing, what about texture memory usage? Correct me if I am wrong. I thought Visual Complexity was an aggregate score that took both geometry ( triangles & vertices) and texture memory usage into account, and that's what makes it so useful.

Side Note:  I am aware "script time" is a completely different metric that has nothing to do the visual aspect of SL.

That does play into it too, but most of the bodies - as far as I know - just use the standard SL UV skins. The complexity score just doesn't really seem to weigh all those aspects properly - a 500k polygon body is deemed about the same complexity as a 15k one, even if they use the same textures.

ArcTan might fix that once it's finally out.

[Nalates Urriah]

Complexity...

The current Complexity Index and ARC are calc'd using an old algorithm. It was designed for older hardware and a slower Internet. So, they no longer reflect a realistic scale.

The Lindens are working on a revision to the algorithm called ARCTan. When it arrives we will see a difference how we look at our avatars and what causes lag. They expect the numbers to go up... Since larger numbers would be detrimental to Land Impact and prim count on parcel they are considering how to offset that.

You can try the Black Dragon viewer to get an alternative look at ACI using an algorithm Niran (the developer of BD) thinks is more realistic for modern hardware... and that is way debatable.

While it is very debatable how much the polygon count affects performance it is much less debatable how textures and scripts affect performance. Textures are enough of a problem that the Lab went to great lengths to develop BOM. That they even bumped the BOM output from 512x512 to 1024x1024 as an incentive to get people to switch, which I think suggests how much of an issue textures are.

Anyone that flies, sails, or drives vehicles in SL understands the problems from heavy script weight. There is work going on now to improve script performance and lighten the load on the region servers.

As to optimizing a body, I think Slink has done an amazing job with Redux. The ACI drops about 10k and the script load by a a couple of MB. AFAIK it is the only body completely redesigned for BOM.

[Sammy Huntsman]

5 minutes ago, Nalates Urriah said:

Complexity...

The current Complexity Index and ARC are calc'd using an old algorithm. It was designed for older hardware and a slower Internet. So, they no longer reflect a realistic scale.

The Lindens are working on a revision to the algorithm called ARCTan. When it arrives we will see a difference how we look at our avatars and what causes lag. They expect the numbers to go up... Since larger numbers would be detrimental to Land Impact and prim count on parcel they are considering how to offset that.

You can try the Black Dragon viewer to get an alternative look at ACI using an algorithm Niran (the developer of BD) thinks is more realistic for modern hardware... and that is way debatable.

While it is very debatable how much the polygon count affects performance it is much less debatable how textures and scripts affect performance. Textures are enough of a problem that the Lab went to great lengths to develop BOM. That they even bumped the BOM output from 512x512 to 1024x1024 as an incentive to get people to switch, which I think suggests how much of an issue textures are.

Anyone that flies, sails, or drives vehicles in SL understands the problems from heavy script weight. There is work going on now to improve script performance and lighten the load on the region servers.

As to optimizing a body, I think Slink has done an amazing job with Redux. The ACI drops about 10k and the script load by a a couple of MB. AFAIK it is the only body completely redesigned for BOM.

That's the thing, I don't think everyone will not want to have to convert to SLink. She may have done an amazing job, but lately that is all I see people suggesting for a better optimized body. But the issue is, why do we give up our investments and redo our whole look from the ground up for a new body, that is optimized better?

[Kia Kiyori]

11 minutes ago, Orion Pastorelli said:

OK, here is the thing, what about texture memory usage? Correct me if I am wrong. I thought Visual Complexity was an aggregate score that took both geometry ( triangles & vertices) and texture memory usage into account, and that's what makes it so useful.

Side Note:  I am aware "script time" is a completely different metric that has nothing to do the visual aspect of SL.

Imo, the expert in the nitty gritty is NiranV Dean (Black Dragon creator); what he doesn't know, isn't worth knowing - he can shoot the nonsense down in flames without even trying.

[Sammy Huntsman]

1 minute ago, AnyaJurelle said:

Imo, the expert in the nitty gritty is NiranV Dean (Black Dragon creator); what he doesn't know, isn't worth knowing - he can shoot the nonsense down in flames without even trying.

His viewer is nice and all, but it is pretty intensive on machines even machines running amazing graphics. His viewer has nice graphics, but not optimized to be a daily driver. I only use it to take pictures, and even then limit the amount of time I take my pictures to an hour and a half to 3 hours tops. As I know it's pretty CPU and GPU intensive.

[Kia Kiyori]

3 minutes ago, halebore Aeon said:

His viewer is nice and all, but it is pretty intensive on machines even machines running amazing graphics. His viewer has nice graphics, but not optimized to be a daily driver. I only use it to take pictures, and even then limit the amount of time I take my pictures to an hour and a half to 3 hours tops. As I know it's pretty CPU and GPU intensive.

Yes it is, but it's not his viewer I'm referring to though; it's Niran's knowledge pertaining to Orion's question I was thinking of. If he was let loose at the controls of SL, he'd have it ship shape in no time flat and we'd not have a blessed thing to complain about.

[Sammy Huntsman]

13 minutes ago, AnyaJurelle said:

Yes it is, but it's not his viewer I'm referring to though; it's Niran's knowledge pertaining to Orion's question I was thinking of. If he was let loose at the controls of SL, he'd have it ship shape in no time flat and we'd not have a blessed thing to complain about.

I honestly don't think he would, he talks a big game. But doesn't give me the confidence that he knows what he is doing. I look at him like, he made a graphically pretty viewer, that is it.

[Orion Pastorelli]

33 minutes ago, Nalates Urriah said:

Complexity...

The current Complexity Index and ARC are calc'd using an old algorithm. It was designed for older hardware and a slower Internet. So, they no longer reflect a realistic scale.

The Lindens are working on a revision to the algorithm called ARCTan. When it arrives we will see a difference how we look at our avatars and what causes lag. They expect the numbers to go up... Since larger numbers would be detrimental to Land Impact and prim count on parcel they are considering how to offset that.

You can try the Black Dragon viewer to get an alternative look at ACI using an algorithm Niran (the developer of BD) thinks is more realistic for modern hardware... and that is way debatable.

While it is very debatable how much the polygon count affects performance it is much less debatable how textures and scripts affect performance. Textures are enough of a problem that the Lab went to great lengths to develop BOM. That they even bumped the BOM output from 512x512 to 1024x1024 as an incentive to get people to switch, which I think suggests how much of an issue textures are.

Anyone that flies, sails, or drives vehicles in SL understands the problems from heavy script weight. There is work going on now to improve script performance and lighten the load on the region servers.

As to optimizing a body, I think Slink has done an amazing job with Redux. The ACI drops about 10k and the script load by a a couple of MB. AFAIK it is the only body completely redesigned for BOM.

Wow, I think you have managed to answer questions that have yet to occur to me. Thank you, I will definitely start reading your blog.