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Areaian Ellisson
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Prim counts for the old homes, on their existing 512 plots, won't be done for all the reasons Molly mentioned and likely more we haven't thought of yet.  And the plots cannot be enlarged without a lot of work - so that also will not happen.  Somebody had previously mentioned moving the continent to give it water access and Patch said that he even looked into that option, but it also won't work for many reasons.  

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The increase is not just for the new homes.  They have added all sorts of things to the Premium benefit list over the years and have NEVER increased the price........... since 2003.  There are folks that really don't give a rat's patooty about getting a Linden Home - have never used one -- and are perfectly fine with the price increase because they know that they have gained a lot over the years.

It is up to each person to decide what is and is not worth it to them.  And every time we renew for more than a month, we take a chance that something happens in that time period that we don't like or causes us to not get our full benefit out of things.  We all have our RL issues and have to decide these things individually. 

You can whine and complain all you want, but I guarantee you it will make no different.  The new price is set.  You will not get any sort of reduction just because you currently cannot get a new home.  Like I said - plenty don't even want one and still have no problem with the price increase.

 

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4 hours ago, roseelvira said:

AMEN  AMEN AMEN   I HAVE TO AGREE    CHANGE  PRIM AND  LAND FOR FIRST GENERATION   HOMES  TO EQUAL TO THE NEW HOMES AND HOUSE BOATS  ,  IF LINDEN LABS HAD DONE THAT I DO THINK MORE PREMIUMS WOULD BE MORE TRUSTING OF WHAT THEY ARE ANNOUNCING . They said they were going to gradually phase the first generation homes . IF THEY INCREASED THE PRIM AND LAND  AMOUNT  FOR THE FIRST GENERATIONS HOMES IT WOULD BE A POSITIVE AND  THEN THEY COULD TAKE THEIR TIME WITH THE NEW HOUSE BOATS AND HOMES ,,,, 

Would you like LL to stop building the new homes and go back and improve the old ones and then go back to making new ones so they can phase out the old ones?  That would take a lot more time to get the new homes built than it’s taking now.

Everyone had an equal chance to get a new Premium LL Home.  I guess you didn’t read the Second Life blog feed on your dashboard or go to see the  Preview of the new homes in March or attend a Town Hall meeting in the last year or read any of the blogs about the upcoming release or watch any of the videos until the Homes were all sold out and now you have to wait?

Prims and land impact are a physical load on the servers.  That’s why I can’t just decide I’d like to have 351 prims on my 512 in the same way I can’t just decide I’d like my refrigerator to hold 34 jugs of milk or my car carry 19 family members to a picnic.

LL is doing the best they can do.  They can’t make magic servers serve double prims.  LL can’t make employees and Moles appear out of thin air to build 40,000 homes at once no matter how much they would like to be able to.  RL homes in new subdivisions take time to build and so do these virtual ones.

Should the people who did follow the process and progress which has been going on for nearly a year give up theirs because 35,000 other Premium Members don’t have a new House yet?  What if only 10,000 Premium Members ended up deciding they wanted New Homes but everyone had to wait until the 30,000 were built?  

Please think about how you or anyone else could possibly do any better and share that plan (hopefully one which doesn’t require magic or faeries or require the Unified Theory to be useful 😉with the Forums or offer it to LL.  

You can come and visit, explore, watch and enjoy this beautiful new continent while it’s being built and celebrate this rare occasion! 😊

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3 hours ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

How is it that you are paying for less prims and land? A premium account gets a 1024 land allowance, period. If you use it on a new Linden home, an old Linden home, or Mainland, it is still the same land allowance. You are paying for the exact same land allowance as every other Premium member. 

For me, the issue is that the new Linden home allows one to put more objects in that residence.  No matter how you parse the square meters and LI between the new versus the old homes, the package of land and LI in the new homes is more desirable for me and probably for the many people who are flocking to fill these homes.  

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52 minutes ago, BJoyful said:

Would you like LL to stop building the new homes and go back and improve the old ones and then go back to making new ones so they can phase out the old ones?  That would take a lot more time to get the new homes built than it’s taking now.

Everyone had an equal chance to get a new Premium LL Home.  I guess you didn’t read the Second Life blog feed on your dashboard or go to see the  Preview of the new homes in March or attend a Town Hall meeting in the last year or read any of the blogs about the upcoming release or watch any of the videos until the Homes were all sold out and now you have to wait?

I doubt that everyone had an equal chance.  But, even if they did, this would be like playing musical chairs at a theater.  Everyone buys a ticket, but not everyone gets a seat.  Bad theater management.  

Prims and land impact are a physical load on the servers.  That’s why I can’t just decide I’d like to have 351 prims on my 512 in the same way I can’t just decide I’d like my refrigerator to hold 34 jugs of milk or my car carry 19 family members to a picnic.

I don't know anything about computer servers, but I assume the servers were set up to deal with maximum LI for more residents than are currently there.  My old neighborhood is pretty empty.  It always seemed silly to me that I would be reaching my LI limit in a neighborhood with mostly empty houses.  Even before this current situation, I thought "why don't they increase LI for these houses?".  It just seemed like a waste. 

LL is doing the best they can do.  They can’t make magic servers serve double prims.  LL can’t make employees and Moles appear out of thin air to build 40,000 homes at once no matter how much they would like to be able to.  RL homes in new subdivisions take time to build and so do these virtual ones.

Suggesting that someone is expecting magic is completely disregarding the concerns being raised here.  If people feel they are being treated unfairly, LL should (and probably does) consider their point of view and try to correct the situation quickly.  Good customer service would not stop there, however.  They should also come up with a remedy that appeases those who have been frustrated by the turn of events.  I don't know what that would be.  Maybe you have some ideas? 

Should the people who did follow the process and progress which has been going on for nearly a year give up theirs because 35,000 other Premium Members don’t have a new House yet?  What if only 10,000 Premium Members ended up deciding they wanted New Homes but everyone had to wait until the 30,000 were built?  

I don't think anyone would suggest that either.  But, thanks for the straw man.  I don't know that LL could have avoided this situation.  Maybe if they had done a survey first, to see how much people would be interested in the new homes.  If they had know there would be this much response, my guess is that they would have delayed release.  So, the answer to your last question is "yes"; because that would have been fair.  

Please think about how you or anyone else could possibly do any better and share that plan (hopefully one which doesn’t require magic or faeries or require the Unified Theory to be useful 😉with the Forums or offer it to LL.  

Also, just as one does not have to be a surgeon to bring a medical malpractice lawsuit, one does not have to work at Linden Labs to have an opinion about how well they are doing.  Why should anyone assume that things could not possibly have gone better in the release of these new homes?  If everyone thought that whoever is doing a job is always the best for that job, there would never be any progress on anything.  Please think about how LL could do better instead of trying to make people with legitimate complaints feel bad for expressing their dissatisfaction.  

You can come and visit, explore, watch and enjoy this beautiful new continent while it’s being built and celebrate this rare occasion! 😊

Thanks for the nice idea!  Have a nice day!

 

 

Edited by Perrain Berenohn
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25 minutes ago, Perrain Berenohn said:

 

I don't know anything about computer servers, but I assume the servers were set up to deal with maximum LI for more residents than are currently there.   

The total LI of a region has nothing whatsoever to do with the number of residents that are there or can be there.  Every region can have a specific amount of LI.  A regular region is 64k in size (65536 sqm) and can have a total LI of 22500 (I think that is the correct number).  Thus all parcels get an LI amount based on the parcel size as a percentage of the whole.  There are some areas where the regions are double LI.  My guess is that the underlying server for those regions is a different setup that the typical servers for normal regions, therefore LL can't just grant any region double the normal LI.

Edited by LittleMe Jewell
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2 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

The total LI of a region has nothing whatsoever to do with the number of residents that are there or can be there.  Every region can have a specific amount of LI.  A regular region is 64k in size (65536 sqm) and can have a total LI of 22500.  Thus all parcels get an LI amount based on the parcel size as a percentage of the whole.  There are some cases areas where the regions are double LI.  My guess is that the underlying server for those regions is a different setup that the typical servers for normal regions, therefore LL can't just grant any region double the normal LI.

Hmmm. I suppose that is possible.  Whatever the case may be, I imagine LL was aware of whatever technical constraints they were working with, but less aware of how popular the new homes would be.  If that is true, then the problem was not a technical one and a technical explanation would not really address it.  So, we still have the problem.  

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There is no problem. LL have implemented the new Linden homes in the only reasonable way possible. It took more than 8 months to get this new continent up and running, with approx 3000-4000 homes (I forgot the exact number). Someone on these forums (Patch?) stated there was around 38,000 old style linden homes that would need replacing.

It doesn't take a genius to work out that, even allowing for a more rapid streamlined process in the future, it will take LL years to complete this project. What should they do, continue to devote resources to the project for years and simply deny homes to ALL premium users until every single house is finished? That's very poor business planning.

Instead, they've chosen to do it rather like RL housing developments are done, in stages, where the consumer uptake of each stage helps to strength the financial position of the developer to help them continue work of the following stage.

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10 minutes ago, Eowyn Southmoor said:

There is no problem. LL have implemented the new Linden homes in the only reasonable way possible. It took more than 8 months to get this new continent up and running, with approx 3000-4000 homes (I forgot the exact number). Someone on these forums (Patch?) stated there was around 38,000 old style linden homes that would need replacing.

It doesn't take a genius to work out that, even allowing for a more rapid streamlined process in the future, it will take LL years to complete this project. What should they do, continue to devote resources to the project for years and simply deny homes to ALL premium users until every single house is finished? That's very poor business planning.

Instead, they've chosen to do it rather like RL housing developments are done, in stages, where the consumer uptake of each stage helps to strength the financial position of the developer to help them continue work of the following stage.

Yes, working on the figure of over 38000 given by LL it would suggest it could take a very very long time (years), and I don't think Premium members will be very happy if it does.  However Patch said (https://thebellisserian.wixsite.com/news):

Quote

 As we move forward, releasing more homes becomes quicker. We may try some other release strategies in the near term which could mean more releases of homes on a much faster cadence.  The one thing we do not want to erode is quality in exchange for speed. We’re going to do everything we can to keep going faster and maintain what everyone has seen so far out of the overall continent.

so hopefully it will be a relatively fast process.

Edited by Evangeline Arcadia
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2 hours ago, Eowyn Southmoor said:

There is no problem. LL have implemented the new Linden homes in the only reasonable way possible. It took more than 8 months to get this new continent up and running, with approx 3000-4000 hoTmes (I forgot the exact number). Someone on these forums (Patch?) stated there was around 38,000 old style linden homes that would need replacing.

It doesn't take a genius to work out that, even allowing for a more rapid streamlined process in the future, it will take LL years to complete this project. What should they do, continue to devote resources to the project for years and simply deny homes to ALL premium users until every single house is finished? That's very poor business planning.

Instead, they've chosen to do it rather like RL housing developments are done, in stages, where the consumer uptake of each stage helps to strength the financial position of the developer to help them continue work of the following stage.

Releasing enough homes to meet the demand would have been better.  Generally, if people are paying for a service and that service is provided unequally among the paying customers, you have a problem.  I think a survey to gauge interest in the project might have helped avoid the current situation.  I can't think of any MMORPG that would do have a situation like this.  If they did, there would be a flood of complaints.  Those complaints would be justified.  While SL is different from those services in many ways, the transparency and fairness in those services is important in the more competitive market they dwell in.  

But, hey... I can wait... I love SL and there is nothing like it.  Nevertheless, this is a problem.  I am eagerly waiting for the solution and hopeful for plans to avoid similar problems in the future.  I don't think that is asking too much.  

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2 hours ago, Evangeline Arcadia said:

Yes, working on the figure of over 38000 given by LL it would suggest it could take a very very long time (years), and I don't think Premium members will be very happy if it does.  However Patch said (https://thebellisserian.wixsite.com/news😞

so hopefully it will be a relatively fast process.

Thank you, Evangeline, for posting this url.  Patch's answer to this question shows the problem in my view:  

How do you respond to residents that feel the lack of inventory for homes in Bellisseria is “unfair”?

 

This is a tough question to answer because it emotionally strikes a chord with me.  If we opted for a cookie-cutter, universal design like the old Linden Homes, we firmly know that we would lose our edge that has made this project as successful as it’s been today.   We could have toiled away in the darkness for another year and met what I predict to be more than half of the overall need to replace the old Linden Homes, but then the wait would have been terrible.

Users will be waiting.  I am waiting.  Nothing about this is terrible, nor would it be terrible for everyone to wait.  The problem remains: people paying the same amount of money are not getting the same service.  Now, I can see that this was part of the plan and that is a disappointment.  In his answer, Patch did not give a good explanation for doing this.  There may be one.  Perhaps it is easier to make improvements after a small scale release, and then the large scale release can go more smoothly.  That is fine.  But, then explain to everyone that this is happening, call it a Beta release, and warn people that it may not be a good time to pack up and move your residence.  

I should not have to pay the same membership fee as someone who has been able to take advantage of access to a home in Belliseria.  They could pay more or I could pay less.  Tiered access should have a tiered payment.  Perhaps they could have tied the upcoming membership increase to the new homes, and delayed the increase for residents with old homes.  Maybe there is a better solution.  Just saying it is hard to create these great homes does not explain away the unfairness issue.  It looks like Patch is saying this unfair situation might go on for more than a year for some people.  That is really bad.  

The problem remains: people paying the same membership fee are not getting the same service.  

This needs to change. 

Edited by Perrain Berenohn
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10 hours ago, Perrain Berenohn said:

Also, just as one does not have to be a surgeon to bring a medical malpractice lawsuit, one does not have to work at Linden Labs to have an opinion about how well they are doing.  Why should anyone assume that things could not possibly have gone better in the release of these new homes?  If everyone thought that whoever is doing a job is always the best for that job, there would never be any progress on anything.  Please think about how LL could do better instead of trying to make people with legitimate complaints feel bad for expressing their dissatisfaction.  

I think attempting to file a malpractice suit because you didn't get surgery on the day that would be convenient for you would go as far as your opinion that LL could do something better, even though you have no idea how or what they could have done better, except that it disappoints you. 

I wish you and everyone else had a house on the new continent and no one got disappointed but neither wishes nor complaints can make the impossible possible.  I think we all learn better when we are encouraged to do better and provided some guidance and helpful suggestions rather than just endure a whining rant. 

You may have some valuable insight that could help and you are welcome to share that ♥ LL does know many are disappointed.  It will be hard for those who expect instant gratification but I think you will ultimately feel better if you exercise patience instead of just disappointment that you and others didn't get what you wanted when you wanted it. ♥  Come and enjoy watching this amazing process and you will understand why it takes time to create such a unique place and offer your input constructively and it will be appreciated and duly considered. 🙂  

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End of the day, we know LL is working on the situation. We have at least some idea of what the future will be shaped like.

It will just take time to get there.

We're all getting to where we'd like to be a little closer every day. In the meantime, not having a new house yet doesn't preclude the ability to come down and hang out with folks, build relationships with your future neighbors and gather ideas for how you want to decorate.

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I am amazed at the response to my expression of frustration at what was clearly a mistake by LL.  I have been insulted and told things that are too obvious to be worth mentioning.  But, the really annoying part is a refusal to acknowledge that LL did something wrong.  Saying there was a mistake is not ranting (although, I have admitted it is whining).  I have offered remedies for the current issue and ways to avoid this in the future.  I am trying to be constructive. 

It is nice to be positive and to be tough to get through problems.  However, it is better acknowledge problems when they arise and discuss constructive solutions.  

Thanks to those who have provided insight and information relevant to my posts.  If your goal is to try to teach me about life, please do not bother responding to me.  

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1 hour ago, Gearhead Gaffer said:

End of the day, we know LL is working on the situation. We have at least some idea of what the future will be shaped like.

It will just take time to get there.

We're all getting to where we'd like to be a little closer every day. In the meantime, not having a new house yet doesn't preclude the ability to come down and hang out with folks, build relationships with your future neighbors and gather ideas for how you want to decorate.

True.  That is comforting.  I guess my concern at this point is the lack of information about how much time we are talking about.  In the Belliseria news interview with Patch (https://thebellisserian.wixsite.com/news), he says waiting a year to release would have only been enough to replace 1/2 of the old Linden Homes.  I don't know if that is enough to meet the current demand.  But, it makes me think some people may be waiting a year to have the opportunity to get a new Linden home.  That seems like a long time to be on a lower tier of service for the same level of payment.  I hope that will not be the case.  

There must be some estimate within LL that could be disclosed in the Forum.  Are we talking days, weeks, or months?  Do they have no idea?  An answer to either of those questions would be nice.  

Edited by Perrain Berenohn
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5 minutes ago, Perrain Berenohn said:

I am amazed at the response to my expression of frustration at what was clearly a mistake by LL I have been insulted and told things that are too obvious to be worth mentioning.  But, the really annoying part is a refusal to acknowledge that LL did something wrong.  Saying there was a mistake is not ranting (although, I have admitted it is whining).  I have offered remedies for the current issue and ways to avoid this in the future.  I am trying to be constructive. 

The bolded part is subjective, not fact.  Many of the responses that you do not like are simply because not everyone agrees that LL made a mistake.

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2 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

The bolded part is subjective, not fact.  Many of the responses that you do not like are simply because not everyone agrees that LL made a mistake.

Sure.  But, there has not been a response to what I have said I think the problem is:  People paying the same membership fee are not getting the same service.  What part of this statement is untrue? 

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Everyone has the option of a Linden Home.

It's just that the Linden Homes are currently in the middle of a renovation process which cannot be automated without then having people curate and babysit the automation process afterwards in a way that would take JUST as much time as if they had just done everything by hand to begin with.

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Is there a way before I leave my LL older home again to try to get a house boat if we can be put on a list and send a message there is our boat house... I have left my old style LL home 3 times in chance to get a house boat and they were gone. So I had to get another older LL home to hold me over until the new ones are available.. 

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4 minutes ago, Gearhead Gaffer said:

Everyone has the option of a Linden Home.

It's just that the Linden Homes are currently in the middle of a renovation process which cannot be automated without then having people curate and babysit the automation process afterwards in a way that would take JUST as much time as if they had just done everything by hand to begin with.

The homes are not equal, therefore the service is not equal.  Details of the difficulties in fixing the problem does not mean there is not a problem, and that we are not being given an estimated time (days, weeks, or months) we can expect a solution.  Meanwhile, membership fees will be collected by a process that I am sure people have made sure works just great to keep the money coming in.  

Members paying the same fees are not getting the same service, and we have no idea of how long this will be going on.  I am pretty sure LL know this is a problem.  I am confident they are working on it.  I am confused as to why people have trouble admitting this is a problem.  

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5 minutes ago, Sami Wildcat said:

Is there a way before I leave my LL older home again to try to get a house boat if we can be put on a list and send a message there is our boat house... I have left my old style LL home 3 times in chance to get a house boat and they were gone. So I had to get another older LL home to hold me over until the new ones are available.. 

Not as far as I know.   

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Ah, I see where you're coming from now.

This is not a mistake on LL's part, this is the result of a compromise. In order to prevent a riot LL is releasing new homes gradually in the new format with the intent of eventually replacing the old designs. They concluded, correctly, that the community would be much more upset if they had to wait years for a rollout of a full replacement all at once.

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