Perrain Berenohn Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 16 minutes ago, Gearhead Gaffer said: Ah, I see where you're coming from now. This is not a mistake on LL's part, this is the result of a compromise. In order to prevent a riot LL is releasing new homes gradually in the new format with the intent of eventually replacing the old designs. They concluded, correctly, that the community would be much more upset if they had to wait years for a rollout of a full replacement all at once. Do you agree with the following statement? People paying the same fees are not getting the same service. If you disagree, please tell me why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 20 minutes ago, Perrain Berenohn said: Do you agree with the following statement? People paying the same fees are not getting the same service. If you disagree, please tell me why. Perrain, if I may, I agree the services presently differ, and I understand you want a houseboat and to be part of the community! I just think it would be too expensive to fix it via the website/land connection, especially since this is a temporary problem, and that resources should be spent elsewhere. You never know...but I suspect something new is coming around the SL Birthday time...maybe those 512 lots at a membership price reduction. Then it will be more equal for you if you haven't managed to snag a new Linden home in the meantime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylvia Tamalyn Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 3 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gearhead Gaffer Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 27 minutes ago, Perrain Berenohn said: Do you agree with the following statement? People paying the same fees are not getting the same service. If you disagree, please tell me why. I disagree because I believe you are being impatient. 5 minutes ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said: 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyona Su Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 1 hour ago, Perrain Berenohn said: Sure. But, there has not been a response to what I have said I think the problem is: People paying the same membership fee are not getting the same service. What part of this statement is untrue? What service, in any way, shape, or form, were you promised that you are not receiving? 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrain Berenohn Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: Perrain, if I may, I agree the services presently differ, and I understand you want a houseboat and to be part of the community! I just think it would be too expensive to fix it via the website/land connection, especially since this is a temporary problem, and that resources should be spent elsewhere. You never know...but I suspect something new is coming around the SL Birthday time...maybe those 512 lots at a membership price reduction. Then it will be more equal for you if you haven't managed to snag a new Linden home in the meantime. Thanks, Luna! My concerns about this are small (although my concerns that people have trouble seeing there is a problem is large). I am sure LL would respond to opinions that are held by a large number of users. The concerns of little-ol-me may not mean much. On this forum, I have simply been trying to express my opinion and see if others felt the same way and maybe had some good advice. I did get that, but it was diluted by the inanity of apologists with insults and weak arguments. We should keep in mind that the name of the forum is Second Life Community. No community can function without some basic, polite manners. Just be nice. It is not hard. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrain Berenohn Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 8 minutes ago, Gearhead Gaffer said: I disagree because I believe you are being impatient. That does not make any sense. If you disagree with the statement, then I have nothing to be impatient about. Without thinking about me, just look at the meaning of the words in the statement and decide if you agree with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrain Berenohn Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 3 minutes ago, Alyona Su said: What service, in any way, shape, or form, were you promised that you are not receiving? I did not say I was explicitly promised something. I am not making a legal argument. I am saying that the distribution of quality among available homes is unequal among members paying the same fees. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyona Su Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 5 minutes ago, Perrain Berenohn said: I did not say I was explicitly promised something. I am not making a legal argument. I am saying that the distribution of quality among available homes is unequal among members paying the same fees. You did say this. You specifically said: Quote People paying the same membership fee are not getting the same service. And I asked what service is it that you are referring to? If you are overexaggerating for dramatic effect, it is okay as people do it all the time. Feel free to change your story. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleMe Jewell Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 5 minutes ago, Perrain Berenohn said: I did not say I was explicitly promised something. I am not making a legal argument. I am saying that the distribution of quality among available homes is unequal among members paying the same fees. I have the option of using my 1024 sqm of tier for mainland, however not all mainland is equal. Some folks, due to them being online at the right time, were able to get prime mainland spots. Do I get a reduction in fees because I cannot have a prime mainland location like some others? 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gearhead Gaffer Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 1 minute ago, Alyona Su said: You did say this. You specifically said: And I asked what service is it that you are referring to? If you are overexaggerating for dramatic effect, it is okay as people do it all the time. Feel free to change your story. 1 minute ago, LittleMe Jewell said: I have the option of using my 1024 sqm of tier for mainland, however not all mainland is equal. Some folks, due to them being online at the right time, were able to get prime mainland spots. Do I get a reduction in fees because I cannot have a prime mainland location like some others? You both put this far better than I could. Thank you. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrain Berenohn Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 3 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said: I have the option of using my 1024 sqm of tier for mainland, however not all mainland is equal. Some folks, due to them being online at the right time, were able to get prime mainland spots. Do I get a reduction in fees because I cannot have a prime mainland location like some others? I doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrain Berenohn Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Alyona Su said: You did say this. You specifically said: And I asked what service is it that you are referring to? If you are overexaggerating for dramatic effect, it is okay as people do it all the time. Feel free to change your story. I did not say I was explicitly promised fairness. I just have an expectation of fairness. Maybe that is the problem. Also, why do you feel the need to be insulting? What have I ever done to make you angry at me? Edited June 4, 2019 by Perrain Berenohn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyona Su Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Perrain Berenohn said: I did not say I was explicitly promised fairness. I just have an expectation of fairness. Maybe that is the problem. Also, why do you feel the need to be insulting? What have I ever done to make you angry at me? If what I say insults you then it is your choice to be insulted. I am speaking simply and plainly as I can. Here is why your expectation of perceived fairness is unjustified in my mind: When you pay for the service, you are receiving 100% of all benefits promised to you before you paid for the service. There was no promise or description made with regard to any perceived "quality" of anything you will receive or have access to. You have received exactly the same things and access to exactly the same areas that all of us who have subscribed have. There was no promise, perceived or otherwise, no insinuation or innuendo that you would specifically receive a Bellisseria Linden Home or any other particular style or theme of anything. And yet, you want one. Many do. And Linden Lab is working very hard to build more so everyone who wants one can have one. And as hard as they work to satisfy your want, you slap them in the face about it? You are frustrated, I get it. And it is completely understandable. However, your frustration does not give you the license to place malice against Linden lab or anyone else. I am not defending Linden Lab; but I also don;t like seeing misinformation, especially intentionally-created misinformation thrown around and so in that case, I called you out on it asking for your source. If this insults you, then you are insulted, there is nothing I or anyone else can do about that. Edited June 4, 2019 by Alyona Su 4 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleMe Jewell Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 17 minutes ago, Perrain Berenohn said: 21 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said: I have the option of using my 1024 sqm of tier for mainland, however not all mainland is equal. Some folks, due to them being online at the right time, were able to get prime mainland spots. Do I get a reduction in fees because I cannot have a prime mainland location like some others? I doubt it. I guess the better question would be: Do I "deserve" a reduction in fees because I cannot get a prime mainland location like some other Premium members? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrain Berenohn Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, Alyona Su said: If what I say insults you then it is your choice to be insulted. I am speaking simply and plainly as I can. Here is why your expectation is unjustified in my mind: When you pay for the service, you are receiving 100% of all benefits promised to you before you paid for the service. There was no promise or description made with regard to any perceived "quality" of anything you will receive or have access to. You have received exactly the same things and access to exactly the same areas that all of us who have subscribed have. There was no promise, perceived or otherwise, no insinuation or innuendo that you would specifically receive a Bellisseria Linden Home or any other particular style or theme of anything. And yet, you want one. Many do. And Linden Lab is working very hard to build more so everyone who wants one can have one. And as hard as they work to satisfy your want, you slap them in the face about it? You are frustrated, I get it. And it is completely understandable. However, your frustration does not give you the license to place malice against Linden lab or anyone else. I am not defending Linden Lab; but I also don;t like seeing misinformation, especially intentionally-created misinformation thrown around and so in that case, I called you out on it asking for your source. If this insults you, then you are insulted, there is nothing I or anyone else can do about that. Thank you for understanding my frustration. I just felt your saying I was over-exaggerating was an insult. Am I displaying malice toward LL? If so, I apologize. I certainly did not mean to do so. I am just pointing out that I think they made a mistake. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJoyful Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 22 minutes ago, Perrain Berenohn said: The homes are not equal, therefore the service is not equal. But it is equal as can possibly be, ALL premium members can have a house. Before the new ones were built, we didn't ALL have exactly the same property either. Some had better locations, better layouts, etc. ALL premium members have had 1024 m2 and 351 prims since that was raised from 512 m2 and 175 prims which was raised from 117 prims. We don't ALL have everything we want at the exact moment we want it and that isn't anyone's mistake, it is just the way life is. We can whine about it but it doesn't change or help anyone, least of all the one whining. LL is working to create MOAR new homes at this moment. Before the first batches became available to everyone with an equal opportunity to get one, we ALL used our 1024 as we desired, the same as we would still be doing until the house we want appears. When the first LL homes appeared in 2010 everyone didn't move into the home of their dreams at the moment of their choosing either. Most of the people who have been aware of the progress don't feel there has been a mistake made, and we're trying our best to help you understand that. Everyone who wants a new home will get one. We only need to wait our turn and how we spend that time waiting is up to each of us to decide. 🙂 Bellisseria welcomes everyone to come and share the experience of a very rare event. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrain Berenohn Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 4 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said: I guess the better question would be: Do I "deserve" a reduction in fees because I cannot get a prime mainland location like some other Premium members? That depends. I think some inequities might simply be subjective. I think the difference in Linden homes is pretty much agreed upon (witness the rush to grab them). So, in this particular case, I think the unfairness is real. I am not familiar enough with land deals to intelligently answer to your analogy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyona Su Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Perrain Berenohn said: Thank you for understanding my frustration. I just felt your saying I was over-exaggerating was an insult. Am I displaying malice toward LL? If so, I apologize. I certainly did not mean to do so. I am just pointing out that I think they made a mistake. Now this is an entirely fair statement (Look, I know that frustration also clouds the mind and what comes out in our text sounds different from what is in our heads.) I also have to often try to remember to clarify that anything I say is how *I*, myself feel about things and that anything that may sound like I am proclaiming as "fact" is really only my own thoughts and opinions - but if we forget to specify that, people take what we write as our proclaiming a fact. Now - which is it that you are looking for? A houseboat? And Traditional? Feel free to send me a PM here in the forums and I'll tell you how I got mine, and also tell you my own planned timeline on when to abandon one. It may still not be soon enough for what you want, but it adds to your existing options, right? It's okay to be frustrated. It's also easy to brush off others who are still frustrated after we finally get our own, I try not to do that. So PM and I'll give you some not-so-secret-but-difficult-to-find tricks that may help you out. Edited June 4, 2019 by Alyona Su 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrain Berenohn Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 1 minute ago, Alyona Su said: Now this is an entirely fair statement (Look, I know that frustration also clouds the mind and what comes out in our text sounds different from what is in our heads.) I also have to often try to remember to clarify that anything I say is how *I*, myself feel about things and that anything that may sound like I am proclaiming as "fact" is really only my own thoughts and opinions - but if we forget to specify that, people take what we write as out proclaiming a fact. Now - which is it that you are looking for? A houseboat? And Traditional? Feel free to send me a PM here in the forums and I'll tell you how I got mine, and also tell you my own planned timeline on when to abandon one. It may still not be soon enough for what you want, but it adds to your existing options, right? It's okay to be frustrated. It's also easy to brush off others who are still frustrated after we finally get our own, I try not to do that. So PM and I'll give you some not-so-secret-but-difficult-to-find tricks that may help you out. awww.... you are sweet! Thank you! I will do that. Again, sorry if I was vitriolic. I am indeed frustrated. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrain Berenohn Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 11 minutes ago, BJoyful said: But it is equal as can possibly be, ALL premium members can have a house. Before the new ones were built, we didn't ALL have exactly the same property either. Some had better locations, better layouts, etc. ALL premium members have had 1024 m2 and 351 prims since that was raised from 512 m2 and 175 prims which was raised from 117 prims. We don't ALL have everything we want at the exact moment we want it and that isn't anyone's mistake, it is just the way life is. We can whine about it but it doesn't change or help anyone, least of all the one whining. LL is working to create MOAR new homes at this moment. Before the first batches became available to everyone with an equal opportunity to get one, we ALL used our 1024 as we desired, the same as we would still be doing until the house we want appears. When the first LL homes appeared in 2010 everyone didn't move into the home of their dreams at the moment of their choosing either. Most of the people who have been aware of the progress don't feel there has been a mistake made, and we're trying our best to help you understand that. Everyone who wants a new home will get one. We only need to wait our turn and how we spend that time waiting is up to each of us to decide. 🙂 Bellisseria welcomes everyone to come and share the experience of a very rare event. Sure. I get that those who have seen the progress have a different perception than I have. I still think it could have been handled better. I still think it is unfair. Whether or not being fair is a problem or even possible is a different discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJoyful Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, Perrain Berenohn said: I still think it could have been handled better. I still think it is unfair. In what way do you think it could have been handled better? What is unfair? You have said over and over you "think" it could have been handled better (which implies you have thought of a better way to have handled it) but I suspect you "wish" you had simply taken an interest in reading about the New Premium Housing sooner. Do you imagine that you would have bothered to complete a survey about what you wanted in a new Linden Home even though you didn't bother to read the announcement the new LL Homes were coming, or that they were available to be seen in Preview at the Homes expo or read that they were available? There has been nearly a year of building and progress which you have already missed or dismissed. The news of new Premium housing has been there in many forms for nearly a year and you didn't read it and didn't participate in the process until now. You are more than welcome to come and see all that's happened and all that is going on at this moment, meet your new neighbours and speculate along with the rest of us what will happen next. But I feel you are making a mistake in accusing others of making mistakes without having any valid reason for doing so. Your turn will come to get a new home, exactly the same as it will for everyone who wants to have a new LL home and in the meantime you are welcome to come and meet your future neighbours and actually see what is coming. Abnor Mole is working on the next batch of new homes right now, for the next lucky batch of Premium Members Please come and cheer him on or learn why it's being done this way before you jump to the conclusion that anyone has made a mistake Edited June 5, 2019 by BJoyful sp 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gearhead Gaffer Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 He may be a tiny little robot. But in his heart he is a colossus. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillowTenage Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 This is exciting We get to have a front row seat while the moles do their magic 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylvia Tamalyn Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 (edited) 17 minutes ago, WillowTenage said: This is exciting We get to have a front row seat while the moles do their magic I think it's a great idea to let everyone see just how much work is involved in setting up a group of homes. It might help people understand why we can't just have 100000 new ones materialize overnight. Clever moles! Edited June 5, 2019 by Sylvia Tamalyn 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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