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Security/Privacy and New Linden Homes

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2 minutes ago, Aethelwine said:

Hmm yeah I can't work out how I found them now, I can't see anything for Bellisaria.

Is because they are all sold out. When there are none available the category disappears.

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1 minute ago, Alyona Su said:

Is because they are all sold out. When there are none available the category disappears.

Exactly it is because they are in maintenance, for that reason comment it also in the topic says that they will be solving the problems of certain configurations of the houses ^^. We will have to have patience.
 
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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Alyona Su said:

Is because they are all sold out. When there are none available the category disappears.

That makes sense, one must have become available when I went through the blog post earlier.

 

Edited by Aethelwine

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Just now, Aethelwine said:

That makes sense, I one must have become available when I went through the blog post earlier.

They went quick, the mass exodus for the banlines decision doesn't seem to have had much effect.

Because the ban-line banning is *wanted* - it's a selling point LOL But no hurry, besides, there are new styles that will be coming also.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Alyona Su said:

Because the ban-line banning is *wanted* - it's a selling point LOL But no hurry, besides, there are new styles that will be coming also.

Yeah after that decision I am seriously considering making another Alt premium to get a roadside parcel.

Edited by Aethelwine
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Posted (edited)

My stay in one of the new Linden Homes lasted about 8 hours. Upon waking up to seeing the settings changed this morning, I packed up and moved back into an older Linden Home after stewing for a while over this.

I had had my previous Linden Home for nearly a decade. For the first several months, I tried to be a good neighbor and did not have banlines. I figured, hey, the fact the place was furnished and the doors were locked and the blinds were down would get the point across.

In the immortal words of the late, great Roberto De Vicenzo: What a stupid I am.

I lost count of the number of times I saw people find anyway they could to enter. Sitting on objects in the house to enter. People standing outside and clicking the front door repeatedly for 10 minutes, thinking that maybe click #319 would be the one that would cause it to magically open. People flying over the house. People standing on the roof. You name it. Privacy? Peace? Nowhere to be found. My patience finally snapped, and up went the banlines.

Even then, I'd hardly call it a peaceful experience until we were finally given the feature to prevent people outside of our parcel from seeing us in our homes, or chatting. Not only did I have the joy of listening to neighbors 70-80m shouting, I also had to put up with people camming in and either making lewd/offensive/abusive comments in local chat or IM's.

Mind you, it's not like my old home was perfect after that. Yes, I'd still get the occasional IM's. I had two instances of someone pushing objects into my home. But at least I no longer had people standing or hovering right outside my walls, or three creeps standing outside my door, pretending to pound on it, while shouting (and later IM'ing) "We're drunk! Let us in! We need a place to crash! Ohhh, and, wanna %^*@!?!" But the combination of ban lines, along with the parcel privacy, combined to reduce a good 98, 99% of the hassles I had during my first couple of years in that home.

Between the rave reviews over the new homes (bigger! more prims! new styles!), along with knowing the old Linden Homes would eventually be phased out, I figured I'd get it over with and move this morning. Hey, now I can even have a skybox! What's not to love?!

Feeling like security and privacy aren't allowed. That's what not to love.

I have, just this morning, gone from a Meadowbrook to a new home back to a Meadowbrook, solely over this "compromise" you've imposed upon us residents who would like privacy, would like to live in peace, and would like to be able to use our homes without dealing with creeps and stalkers. Oh, sure. We are getting "security orbs" in the next week. And, hey, someone wants to TP right in and harass me in my home, hey, I can add them to the ban list! That is, of course, 300 times. At which point? I guess it sucks to be me, eh?

A huge number of the problems I had trying to have a meager little home where I'd have peace and privacy disappeared thanks to options that allowed people like me to be PROactive on security, as opposed to REactive. I am supposed to take the time to add person after person after person to a ban list/blacklist, as opposed to blocking everyone but a small whitelist... Why? So someone can't fly over the house? Because someone doesn't like looking at ban lines? Hey, between you and me, I don't like how ban lines look, either... But they sure look better than some naked creep standing in my house uninvited, or, having some psychopath standing outside my house screaming all sorts of vile and hostile names because they think they're entitled to enter my house as well.

I don't think "compromise" thinks what you think it does. In order to get a new home, I'm just supposed to give up privacy and proactive security. After all, all there is are locks on the doors. Which only, in theory, can keep someone out of the house (right!). There is no way to proactively keep people out of the yard, or from standing or sitting on the roof, or even entering the shiny new skybox I can rezz. Someone wants to TP right in? What's going to stop them? Someone wants to sit on my furniture? Hey, help yourself! How about chat privacy, or not being ogled and leered at in my home? Oh well, that's the price I have to pay to be in my new (old) home, since anyone can now walk right into the yard, cam in, and see me... Or listen in on my chat.

No. I give and everyone takes is not "compromise". Subjecting myself to harassment, griefing, stalking, and having an insecure home with no privacy because of a few people whining about flying is not "compromise". On that note... We're allowed skyboxes on the new homes? Awesome. I like that. So what's going to happen after a few people crash their planes or choppers into our skyboxes? Will skyboxes be banned too? Maybe someone doesn't like the pictures on our walls. Do they need to come down? Someone deciding to loiter in my yard hates the radio station - so, do I have to pick a new one?

I'm not sure whose opinions you sought on making this decision, but, it's painfully obvious to me that you sure didn't ask for the thoughts and feelings of those of us who have been sexually harassed, stalked, griefed and abused in our own homes in the past.

I'm looking forward to the next several months in a first generation Linden Home, until I'm eminent domained out of it. At which point I lose the ease and convenience of a "freely"-provided home (One I technically pay US$ for every month). Which means in a year or so, I either am trying to find a plot to put my home on, or just don't have a Linden Home - at least not as long as this policy remains.

My world, my imagination, my home - until I inconvenience some stranger who isn't paying my premium subscription? Thanks to this decision, it sure feels that way.

Yay for all of those cheering. I for one am quite disappointed.

Edited by Madonna Milena
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5 minutes ago, Aethelwine said:

Yeah after that decision I am seriously considering making another Alt premium to get a roadside parcel.

GOT ME A HOUSEBOAT LOL

Okay so people are still abandoning to change homes, here's how to do it...

Go to the Theme-Selection page - if you see "Meadowbrook" - ignore it. Type in the name for your home. Then hit REFRESH on your browser until you see Bellesaria show up in the Theme - Click the yellow button to take it. Then quickly as you can click the checkbox for accepting Terms and Conditions then take your home. Maybe not what you want right now, but you're in.

I was just going for a house and got a HOUSEBOAT Bahahahaha!!!

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Posted (edited)

Madonna, It sounds like you had a lot of problems with your Meadowbrook home. The big advantage of the new homes for you would be being able to have a Skybox for privacy. They are much more effective than banlines or any other parcel security options.

Edited by Aethelwine
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6 minutes ago, Madonna Milena said:

I'm not sure whose opinions you sought on making this decision, but, it's painfully obvious to me that you sure didn't ask for the thoughts and feelings of those of us who have been sexually harassed, stalked, griefed and abused in our own homes in the past.

The ban lines went up at my old Linden Home the day I was on a pose stand inside my house and noticed a dot on the minimap, cammed outside and saw a guy standing naked in my Koi pond, masturbating.

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1 minute ago, Aethelwine said:

It sounds like you had a lot of problems with your Meadowbrook home. The big advantage of the new homes for you would be being able to have a Skybox for privacy. They are much more effective than banlines or any other parcel security options.

Fewer problems thanks to the combination of ban lines, along with blocking people outside the parcel from looking in at me and chatting away without a care in the world. But now since there's nothing to proactively keep people from entering the land (just the house - supposedly), I'm now right back to where I was circa 2010.

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6 minutes ago, Gryphon Ronas said:

The ban lines went up at my old Linden Home the day I was on a pose stand inside my house and noticed a dot on the minimap, cammed outside and saw a guy standing naked in my Koi pond, masturbating.

I'm amazed I never caught anyone doing so before I put up the banlines and before they improved the privacy settings several years ago. I wouldn't be surprised if it did happen, and, I am pretty certain some of the people who used to treat my home like a fish bowl were doing so in RL. Sadly, I feel your pain.

And that is exactly what I'm not looking forward to enduring again thanks to this "grand bargain" that went into effect this morning.

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6 minutes ago, Madonna Milena said:

In other words, you got yours, to heck with my concerns and prior experiences, right?

But.. I thought this was all about the community? Unless, of course, we don't feel and think the same way.

Well, ban-lines does not sound like "community" to me. But here's the thing - we vote with our dollars and our feet. If the new LL homes aren't suiting your needs, there is always the old one or mainland, right?

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Alyona Su said:

Well, ban-lines does not sound like "community" to me.

Nor does blowing off someone speaking of prior instances of stalking, harassment and violations of privacy, along with expressing concerns that this decision is going to cause such things to happen again.

I think you're also blind to another one of my concerns: In the next 12 months or so, I will either have to move into a new Linden Home, or, not have a Linden Home at all. Then what?

Some of us have spent the last few hours reading this thread and listening, even if we strongly disagree. Yet, it sure seems like us in the minority (or silent majority? I don't know yet) are just being told "Take it or leave it."

I'm wondering how many of you would maintain that stance if you put up with what some of us have had to over the years?

As far as voting with my dollars... This will make me strongly reconsider staying as a premium member when the old Linden Homes get phased out. Something LL may want to think about.

Edited by Madonna Milena
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16 minutes ago, Madonna Milena said:

Fewer problems thanks to the combination of ban lines, along with blocking people outside the parcel from looking in at me and chatting away without a care in the world. But now since there's nothing to proactively keep people from entering the land (just the house - supposedly), I'm now right back to where I was circa 2010.

You are allowed to use your own security orb until LL provides theirs.  They will provide one that will have a minimum time setting before ejecting someone and it will be limited in some way as to how far above/below it will protect.  

Since ban lines never went all the way up anyway, I could have always come on to your land above the ban lines and then simply cammed in.  There really is no such thing as "total privacy" in SL.

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Your experience with jerks is not unique to you, had some very real issues with actual stalking and harassment .. none of which ban lines would have solved .. stupid will sometimes happen, ban the idiots and then forget about it rather than bunkering down in a fort. The actual harassers are a different animal all together and no amount of easy 'security' will help you.

SL was better before we all got scared to leave our bubbles and talk to people.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Madonna Milena said:

Nor does blowing off someone speaking of prior instances of stalking, harassment and violations of privacy, along with expressing concerns that this decision is going to cause such things to happen again.

I think you're also blind to another one of my concerns: In the next 12 months or so, I will either have to move into a new Linden Home, or, not have a Linden Home at all. Then what?

Some of us have spent the last few hours reading this thread and listening, even if we strongly disagree. Yet, it sure seems like us in the minority (or silent majority? I don't know yet) are just being told "Take it or leave it."

I'm wondering how many of you would maintain that stance if you put up with what some of us have had to over the years?

I have no intention to belittle your scenario or experience, but there is a way to turn SL off. You are always 100% in control of your SL experience. I was only saying "Hey, if the new place isn't for you, that's fine, thank you for making room for those of us who want in". If you take that as "blowing you off" or otherwise some other offense at that then that's on you, no one else. I never say "sorry" when I'm not and especially when there's no call for it.

Edited by Alyona Su
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Being able to handle security proactively as opposed to reactively does make a big difference, though. Along with two key issues:

1. My parcel ban list hits 300 people... Now what?

2. Minimum time setting... What's that? 5 seconds? 10? 15? Do people gripe about "it's not enough warning!" and it gets increased?

I'm sitting here this afternoon thinking LL is far more concerned about the people who don't live in my home (which, again, I'm paying for) than the person who does live in it.

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4 minutes ago, Alyona Su said:

I have no intention to belittle your scenario or experience, but there is a way to turn SL off. You are always 100% in control of your SL experience.

No. If I'm being told to just logoff if I don't like the experience, I certainly don't feel in control of my SL experience. Nor do I feel in control of that experience if I basically have to "opt people out" of my home, as opposed to "opting in" those I want in my home while keeping everyone else out.

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9 minutes ago, Madonna Milena said:

Nor does blowing off someone speaking of prior instances of stalking, harassment and violations of privacy, along with expressing concerns that this decision is going to cause such things to happen again.

I think you're also blind to another one of my concerns: In the next 12 months or so, I will either have to move into a new Linden Home, or, not have a Linden Home at all. Then what?

Some of us have spent the last few hours reading this thread and listening, even if we strongly disagree. Yet, it sure seems like us in the minority (or silent majority? I don't know yet) are just being told "Take it or leave it."

I'm wondering how many of you would maintain that stance if you put up with what some of us have had to over the years?

The thing I don't understand is you have had such bad experiences at Meadowbrook that you had to shut everything down to deal with it and yet you want to go back there and where the best solution to those problems, having an orb protected skybox isn't available.

I and others haven't had the problems you have had, and I have never had to resort to those measures. I have had stalker, griefers, unwanted guests and comments shouted at me across fences but I have never encountered a problem that isn't easily resolved by some combination of banning, muting and autoreturn or in some cases an abuse report (on a griefer object off my parcel). If I was getting particle spammed or had a follower attach to me then I would retreat to my skybox, an option unavailable at one of the old Linden homes.

The only things that have forced me to move are people moving in next door with banlines that light your home up like you are living in a Tokyo shopping arcade. Sure they can be turned off, but then I have to turn them on again as soon as I go out. The only sense of community they create is one antagonistic to the person running them. Banlines don't achieve anything that an orb doesn't do better, they are only any good for bouncing on and that novelty wears off pretty quickly.

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I guess I'm the only one not thrilled to death by the idea of having my linden home experience cheapened by having my land options taken away.  Yes, I agree ban lines are ugly. That's why I have my viewer set to not render them.  Problem solved!  Your viewer doesn't do this?  Use one that does.  Or ask the creator to add that feature, Its lovely.  No, this should not spread to regular mainland regions. Regular mainland is not a give away with premium.  I paid real money for my mainland AND I pay tier every month for that mainland AND I have to pay premium to own that land.  Some pay a great deal of money for their mainland.  They should have every right to have and use any land control feature available, including band lines. They did not buy that land for all the sunshine happy people who want to be able to violate somone's privacy, because it makes getting around more convenient. Oh yes my friends, a great deal of people in SL have no respect for other's land.  They think if they can see it, they can intrude.  Want to get around someone's ban lines quickly?  Open your map, click where you want to go, click teleport. The entire 11 plus years I've been in SL mainland has had ban lines.  Hey we've survived! OMG!  Oh But ban lines send a bad message. Yes, they send a message that people in SL are very often rude and nosy.  This my friends is why they were put there many years ago.  TO PROTECT LAND OWNERS FROM INTRUSIONS.  Do you climb over your neighbors fence in RL and walk through their yard to get to the neighbor on the other side of them?  Of course not.  You walk yourself out the door, down the sidewalk and there you are.  Why should people in Linden homes, or regular mainland, be forced to have their privacy violated because Mary Sunshine wants to wander all over the linden home continent flying her kite?  Linden homes may be included with premium, but you are still paying to have it.  Residents who choose to have a linden home should still have all the options for security as regular mainland owners!

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Well, I say put it to a vote.

Make a poll about the subject, and let's really see what the majority desires.

But, just between us, do you guys really think that LL made this decision without the metrics behind it?

I sure hope they aren't that amateur ;)

 

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Let's try and go away from victim blaming and belittling people's experiences. You never know what could have happened to a person on the other end of the keyboard. The debate, before that point, was going in a mostly civil direction. Let's go back to that and discuss concerns rationally and with some empathy. I admit I'm glad to not have ban lines as there were times when that would lessen my enjoyment of an area.

Yet at the same time, it would be great if some of those features, like not being able to chat to someone in the parcel or see that they're there unless you're in the parcel would be nice. A security orb that is perhaps programmed into the mailbox could be nice as well. There is going to be growing pains with this and I hope something that blends security, with the visual environment, and allowing for air travel can be done.

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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, Madonna Milena said:

Being able to handle security proactively as opposed to reactively does make a big difference, though. Along with two key issues:

1. My parcel ban list hits 300 people... Now what?

2. Minimum time setting... What's that? 5 seconds? 10? 15? Do people gripe about "it's not enough warning!" and it gets increased?

I'm sitting here this afternoon thinking LL is far more concerned about the people who don't live in my home (which, again, I'm paying for) than the person who does live in it.

1. An orb will handle more than 300 people.

2. I don't know. I would hope 20 seconds at least.

LL appear to be concerned about making a community a bit like the successful private areas attached to mainland the Seychelles, USS Sims, Fairchang, that all have bans on banlines and restrictions on orbs. Rather than going down routes they have been down before which appear from your experience to have been beset by griefers.

Edited by Aethelwine
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1 minute ago, Marsellus Walcott said:

Well, I say put it to a vote.

Make a poll about the subject, and let's really see what the majority desires.

But, just between us, do you guys really think that LL made this decision without the metrics behind it?

I sure hope they aren't that amateur ;)

 

What metrics would they have had available?  The people who opposed it were the only ones saying anything. The rest were just using the tools available to them.

I think your estimation of the decision process is overly optimistic.

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2 minutes ago, Gryphon Ronas said:

What metrics would they have had available?  The people who opposed it were the only ones saying anything. The rest were just using the tools available to them.

I think your estimation of the decision process is overly optimistic.

The obvious metrics would be to look at usage of orbs and banlines on mainland. If I recall correctly from the wiki article about 10-5% with only a tiny minority of them set aggressively under a minute.

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