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Constantine Linden

Security/Privacy and New Linden Homes

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2 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Well, you can only ban and ignore someone whom you've already identified as a trespasser or potential problem.

In fairness, I wouldn't want to dictate to people the kinds of security they want or need, just as I tire of hearing the pro-privacy crowd dismissing the concerns of vehicle users out of hand.

Personally, I don't much care about such things, but it's important to acknowledge that others may have reason to secure their privacy proactively, before it's violated. And that's what the security orbs are for.

Those are the tools you will use when dealing with real nuisance, imho. Hence why I said "ultimately".

But yes, I have no beef with decently programmed security orbs. As long as it's not a 3 secs warning and home TP, I'm perfectly fine with it. It's why I believe LL going in this direction is a good thing. So that every security orb out there in the new continent will behave exactly how they think it should. Nothing more nor less. :)

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Just wanted to apologize....I was trying to get a guy out of my boat yesterday, and I did not realize that what I did caused ban lines to appear. I was clueless, but not malevolent. I'm glad the ban lines are being taken down as I had no intention of being a bad neighbor or making the neighborhood ugly or difficult to navigate. I'm not worried about someone walking in on me doing anything adult....I just find it difficult to live anywhere where people can and do just come in and make themselves at home while I am standing there.

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9 minutes ago, Amigatu Choche said:

we don't want people walking in our homes , using our items , squatters, just like you don't want someone walking in your home in RL and making them self at home. I hate ban lines too but until we can lock our homes without someone jumping on a chair to enter it , we are stuck with ban lines. If people had more respect for others property, we would not need ban lines. yes I know this is a virtual reality game...….

 

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From the start of this year I have been going back and forth with myself about continuing with Second Life (I dropped Premium in January). I go in-world maybe once a week but still check the forums once a day but this is a deal breaker for me. Goodbye Linden Lab

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Posted (edited)

Edmund, this only affects the New Linden Homes continent not SecondLife as a whole. You're not a Premium Member so this doesn't affect you and shouldn't be a reason for leaving SL.

Edited by BobbieEarhart
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Whoooo! After 15 years it's happened - it's finally happened!!!!

YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you!!!!!!

Wow, to be able to walk and drive without any ban lines or fear of them - truly a realistic freedom of exploration!

 

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5 minutes ago, Aylana Basset said:

Why don't  you make the ban lines as tall as the houses that way it doesn't interefere with flying. 

Because while the height is part of the problem, the other part is that they are unsightly and they jut out into waterways and some are so near roadways that they interfere with vehicles too. I have open rez on my home with no ban lines, with an object return time limit. I've yet to have any issue and I've done this on the mainland too. When I had my private sim that had a whole mall and park the land was open rez with auto-return. Not once did I ever have an issue. I even, in one of my stores earlier configurations, had my work area as the second floor of the building. I put an invisible prim wall in place so folks could come to see what I was working on but not get in the way and the orb I had allowed me to set a protective area around just the work area. I think it only had the opportunity to TP someone away twice and one of those was a friend being a pia because she was bored. 

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1 hour ago, Marsellus Walcott said:

I still don't get it... If some people crave for solitude, why not simply go to a private sim? Or why even bother staying in a social game like SL?

 

There are actually people in SL for things other than social stuff.  Many come here simply for the building / creative aspect.  Granted, the majority of those likely won't want a Linden Home in a "community" setup.  Though if those folks want a Linden home simply because it gives them a home without having to buy land and pay tier, they will also probably be the ones that will just put up a skybox and live there.

 

 

57 minutes ago, Amigatu Choche said:

This is great news and understandable Constantine , but you just made it where I cant rez or build on my land there! :( 

The stuff about ban  lines and security orbs will in no way prevent you from rezzing and building on your own land.

 

 

54 minutes ago, Aylana Basset said:

As a premium member my privacy settings were turned off today...  I was told it was because of complaints about the ban lines? You can turn those off in your settings!!! An orb may be only one prim but that is one prim that I can use for other things. The whole idea of having land under premium member ship is to use these settings. Otherwise others can just walk into your land.  People need to learn how to use their settings not penalize others for their ignorance. 

Not all viewers have the ability to turn off the viewing of ban lines.

 

 

49 minutes ago, BobbieEarhart said:

I see one small problem with Constantine offering security orbs through the Linden Homes Content Creation Packs. I have a houseboat and I think I've read the New Linden Homes wiki on Content creation Packs but my houseboat controller does not have that option. " You may receive the Content Creation Pack by clicking on the appropriate menu option in your House Controller. " Going to check again.

If you haven't found this yet, it is option 6 via the house changer buoy thingy.

 

 

11 minutes ago, Aylana Basset said:

Why don't  you make the ban lines as tall as the houses that way it doesn't interefere with flying. 

That still doesn't solve the issue of them being ugly and causing issues for ground level stuff.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Marianne Little said:

But! If some abandon the houseboats because they are mad, it is a second chance for those who missed one.

This decision has tipped me over into wanting one. 🙂

Alas, I don’t imagine I’ll have much chance of getting one, especially with how many people are so happy and excited about this decision. 

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5 minutes ago, Female Winslet said:

This decision has tipped me over into wanting one. 🙂

Alas, I don’t imagine I’ll have much chance of getting one, especially with how many people are so happy and excited about this decision. 

I saw one available yesterday with one of my alts (didn't grab it though, since I already have one myself). If you're interested in it, keep trying. I'm sure you will eventually get it :D

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1 hour ago, Marianne Little said:

But! If some abandon the houseboats because they are mad, it is a second chance for those who missed one.

Well, per another post, the ban lines are starting to disappear.  However, I don't think the houseboats are being abandoned in massive droves -- they still aren't showing as available on my 'Select Linden Home' page.  I'm guessing there may be a few that abandon, but they'll get snapped up pretty much immediately.  There likely won't be lots available again until LL releases the next batch.

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I think this is a great idea. I have my parcel open because I know the issues with crossing sim borders on a boat. I get the random disconnects which cause me to lose my boat somewhere. Hoping the random disconnects (its the same type of disconnect as the teleport one). One suggestion would thats not on topic is the ability to pick to have a linden home on an adult rated sim, so you don't need to put the eye on if you wanna do things in the water on your parcel.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

It isn’t just vehicle users who are affected here. Off the top of my head, this affects vehicle users and:

  • Vehicle creators (no point buying their product if using it is just an exercise in frustration)
  • People walking/flying to explore or otherwise without a vehicle 
  • Anyone building something near the edge of their property
  • Anyone with neighbors (see accounts from some of being boxed in)

Fundamentally, this is an a decision that affects the entire continent positively. Why? Because the only thing that mainland areas, including LL home areas, have that a private estate does not have is a lot of space to move around in. This allows use of that space while still protecting privacy. Take away that space and private estates really are better for almost everyone. 

Fundamentally, the difference between the two sides of this issue seems to be caring about the good of the whole community versus a narrow focus on individual desires. There are not “pro” and “anti” privacy sides. Both sides recognize the importance of privacy. But one side seems focused on making sure everyone can coexist and compromise to protect privacy AND the common good of being able to use all that space to zoom by without affecting anyone. The other side, as far as I can tell, is focused on their individual preferences demanding not only that their privacy be protected, but that it be protected in exactly the way that they demand and without regard to how it affects anyone else. 

Mainland is a lot like a city. And like any city, it doesn’t work well when the dominant attitude is “my way and anybody else can take a hike.” It needs to strike the right balance. And I think this experiment, on one continent, is a great step in that direction. The overwhelmingly positive response seems to make pretty clear that it is addressing a problem that many people have  

1 hour ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Personally, I don't much care about such things, but it's important to acknowledge that others may have reason to secure their privacy proactively, before it's violated. And that's what the security orbs are for.

Yes. People in these discussions often try to equate someone flying by overhead with someone coming into their house, sitting down, and demanding dinner. Some of the few complaints posted seem to make it sound like LL is demanding that everyone get access to everyone else’s house. That is false. It is so blatantly false that it is hard to see it as a misunderstanding. It’s just a misrepresentation. 

31 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Well, per another post, the ban lines are starting to disappear.  However, I don't think the houseboats are being abandoned in massive droves -- they still aren't showing as available on my 'Select Linden Home' page.  I'm guessing there may be a few that abandon, but they'll get snapped up pretty much immediately.  There likely won't be lots available again until LL releases the next batch.

The reactions to this announcement makes me suspect that, if anything, the elimination of ban lines will *increase* the demand for one of these Linden homes, not decrease it. So I don’t imagine there will be many available. 

I value the ability to build stuff rather than having a prefab house. But these are very pretty. And the community feeling sounds great. And it’s an opportunity to live without the problem of ban lines and hopefully a chance to live without ridiculously aggressive security orbs. So now I wanna try out one of these Linden homes.

Off to see if I can get lucky and swoop into a house boat. 🙂 If not, I’ll probably end up getting a regular house later on. 

Edited by Female Winslet
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But how many is on SL now, from the big countries? Isn't it a work day? They do not know about this.

I think you are right, those who leave a boat isn't going to leave in droves. But in drips, maybe? Land with water for sailing, not just water to look at, is expensive.

 

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10 hours ago, Marsellus Walcott said:

Yup, I know this very well. But you insisted on a theoretical "1000 feet minimum" on the post this reply comes from. Read (c) carefully again, please. Also, do pay attention to the word "sparsely", which would probably be 90-95% of all mainland. Technically, we would be able to fly even lower than 500 feet at a lot of places in SL, by FAA rules (which, btw, makes no sense to me at all. SL is a very different beast from RL, imho) ;)

Considering that I was standing on the second floor of my home and was eye to eye with something flying a helicopter .. I think they were a bit low by anyone's standards. Unfortunately, I've seen choppers that low often.

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2 hours ago, Brinlea said:

Just wanted to apologize....I was trying to get a guy out of my boat yesterday

Search the Marketplace for "eject passenger" or "seat disabler" scripts. They'll help you remove those unwanted passengers easily.

I've made a one-seater copy of a couple of my boats by editing the AVpos notecard (in cases where AVsitter was used), but that's more involved. It does keep anyone else from sitting in the first place, however.

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6 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

Considering that I was standing on the second floor of my home and was eye to eye with something flying a helicopter .. I think they were a bit low by anyone's standards. Unfortunately, I've seen choppers that low often.

Most pilots don't, in my experience. Also, there are incomparably more ppl just flying low too, without any vehicle attached to them. This isn't just about flying with some prims attached to you emulating a vehicle. The freedom of movement SL allows will make situations like ppl flying at your eye level happen often.

So, what's next? Ban flying altogether?

Still, a decently tuned security orb will take care of any situation like that. So, then again, why ban lines?

 

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1 hour ago, Marianne Little said:

Land with water for sailing, not just water to look at, is expensive.

 

VERY expensive, it's why I'm not in the Blake! (Or Bay City)

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3 hours ago, BobbieEarhart said:

Someone needs to tell Constantine Linden that the ban on Ban Lines doesn't seem to be retroactive. I see several plots still with active ban lines.

 

Don't forget that your neighbors might have banned you specifically if you're still seeing ban lines.

 

Honestly, I have never liked ban lines. I'm glad to see them go. The problem I think is having your privacy ripped out from under you with no warning. Meh .. for me it's not so much of an issue except for the stalker problem I've spoken about. That is really the only reason I use an orb.

But I will tell you now .. If you are low flying right over my house or hovering right outside my parcel disturbing my peace I'm going to be adding you to my ban list. Unfortunately, that means anytime you come near in the future you'll have to deal with those ban lines. With an orb you might have gotten teleported to the boundary but you wouldn't have been added to my permanent ban list. So there are consequences, but then there always are .. for both sides of this issue.

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I think it helps if people look at Linden Homes not as something that is owed to residents as part of premium membership and more as an option. If you want land with very little restrictions or rules and being part of a community with the people around you is not something that really interests you, then Linden Homes most likely isn't for you. You'll probably be happier on mainland. Linden Homes is connected to mainland, but is definitely is not mainland in scope or purpose.

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Posted (edited)

Even though I had used my ban line recently, for a few hours, I am not opposed to seeing them removed.  I am happier to see security orbs are going to give people time to fly through parcels, I wish that were to become universal because compared to banlines, zero second security orbs are impossible to avoid at any altitude.  

Now, for my question to all of you veteran SL members.  I saw this pretty funny security item on the market place, it is not a security orb, rather it is a beehive that will spawn bees and push people around.  I think it is hilarious, but I can have a warped sense of humor at times.  Do you think this is an acceptable way to secure my property, when I want some privacy, or is it taking things too far?  Also, do you know if this would damage other people's vehicles, or cause problems for them?  While I find it funny, I don't want to cause other people problems while they are just exploring the area on their vehicles. 

 

 

 

Edited by WillowTenage
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20 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

With an orb you might have gotten teleported to the boundary

If security orbs only ever punted to the border then no one would ever be upset over them.

If you want greater privacy, freedom and independence, then maybe living in a managed community isn't a great idea. It's not like there aren't a staggering number of cheap M rated plots for sale, many of which would only have you sharing a region with a couple of other people at the most.

Otherwise it all feels a bit ... I wanna live where I can see people ... just not where people can see me.

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7 hours ago, Ethan Paslong said:

floating and rotating for sale signs at mainland... who are forbidden since many years....

 There are limits on those things. I ARd some recently on mainland that were 1) oversize, 2) floating, 3) glowing, and 4) rotating rapidly. All of which are TOS violations. They were also bright yellow. Ugh. Especially at night.

The most successful landlords in SL put up little, tasteful signs. As in real life. As a rule of thumb, the bigger the property management business, the smaller the sign. One of the biggest just uses little disks flush with the ground. Since they probably own the property next door, they don't want to annoy their own customers.

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