Security/Privacy and New Linden Homes

[Easten West]

I'm guessing we will get the security orb after Tuesdays weekly maintenance?

[Tia Peppermint]

On 4/16/2019 at 5:03 PM, Gingir Ghoststar said:

You bring up an interesting topic. I know I've seen some folks upset because they cannot afford premium. However, they will work 3 jobs in Sl to be able to afford the same amount of Linden equivalent to pay rent and buy clothes. Could there be a way for LL to start allowing folks to pay premium with Linden Dollars? I know you can cash out, and keep the USD in your account to be used for tier/premium but could there be a way to just pay straight with Linden dollars and not have to cash out? It might open up more people that otherwise might not be able to afford to live in premium housing. 

I would rather see Premium members accommodated with the housing before offering it to non-Premium members, especially since they sold out in 2 days. 

[Kyrah Abattoir]

LL doesn't pay its bills in L$ So i don't really see them doing this.

[MoiraKathleen]

In terms of security and privacy issues...  It might actually be good for new players to initially be in a location with no ban lines and sensible behaving orbs.  It will provide them an opportunity to learn to use the eject and access list tools, and to also understand that there really is no guarantee that you will be able to keep your body or your activities completely private.  I remember when I first joined, I was a lot more nervous about things, and did lock things down - ban lines, locked doors on the house, orb when I was renting from someplace that provided them.  It didn't take me too long to realize that, first, those might not be as effective as they seemed, and second, they weren't as necessary as I had initially thought.  

The parcel ban lines and the "others can see you" box unchecked used together are not quite as foolproof as I had initially thought, mainly because the ban lines do not go up very high.  So someone just needs to be up over the top of the ban lines on the parcel, and then the "can't see avatar" setting becomes worthless - they can cam down into your house and see whatever... 

People can set their viewer draw distance high, can move their camera to locations where they can see into areas where they are not physically located, even being able to see into parcels secured from physical entry by ban lines or orbs, and even take pictures.

A security orb and the "others can see you" box unchecked make a better combination, even if that allows the person to be on the parcel for 15 or 30 seconds before ejecting them off the parcel so that they can no longer see you once ejected. 

I'm a pretty modest person, but as others have mentioned, if you have a mesh body and go anyplace else outside of your house, others will likely see your body arrive in pieces without clothing (and even perhaps without applier layers applied yet).  That can be hard to adjust to, but it's something that has to be accepted if you want to wear a mesh body, and once that's accepted, it becomes easier to not worry as much about someone else 'seeing you' while you change clothes.  Granted, if someone popped into my house while I was changing or working on my shape, I would immediately eject them and perhaps even put them on the ban list for awhile, but that is a situation I have not actually experienced.  Additionally, I was reminded by a post in another thread, another person can de-render your clothes and see your body.  So that's another blow for the thought that there is real privacy.  

 Personally, I don't uncheck the "others can see you" box, because when that is unchecked, you cannot see others outside of your parcel.  If you want to feel like you are in a community, not being able to see or converse with your neighbor on the other side of the fence or with others walking by seems counter-productive.  I often will have a little skybox up very high for when I want to feel like I have privacy, but I know that is only an illusion of having privacy. Often though, that illusion is enough to make one feel comfortable. 

I do think that changing the rule about ban lines with the new Linden homes will be beneficial in the long run, but I also think that change should have been made and announced prior to the houses being opened up for occupancy, not after people started moving in.

[Chic Aeon]

23 minutes ago, moirakathleen said:

I do think that changing the rule about ban lines with the new Linden homes will be beneficial in the long run, but I also think that change should have been made and announced prior to the houses being opened up for occupancy, not after people started moving in.

Yes, that wasn't a good move -- the not thinking ahead part :D.  But so far that and the ONE house style that 90 percent of the folks are using (so much for variety LOL) are the only two real oopses that I can see so far.  All in all it has been an excellent release and hopefully the team is celebrating wildly at the offices. 

[Kyrah Abattoir]

1 hour ago, moirakathleen said:

The parcel ban lines and the "others can see you" box unchecked used together are not quite as foolproof as I had initially thought, mainly because the ban lines do not go up very high.  So someone just needs to be up over the top of the ban lines on the parcel, and then the "can't see avatar" setting becomes worthless - they can cam down into your house and see whatever... 

Yeah SL wasn't exactly designed with privacy in mind, it's a multi user experience after all.

 

1 hour ago, moirakathleen said:

People can set their viewer draw distance high, can move their camera to locations where they can see into areas where they are not physically located, even being able to see into parcels secured from physical entry by ban lines or orbs, and even take pictures.

You can actually drag your camera many regions away from your avatar.

1 hour ago, moirakathleen said:

do think that changing the rule about ban lines with the new Linden homes will be beneficial in the long run, but I also think that change should have been made and announced prior to the houses being opened up for occupancy, not after people started moving in.

Well even the ToS changes, I suspect the linden home rules will change a lot more on the future as people test the boundaries of the rules and how to circumvent them.

[Coffee Pancake]

Draw a line and someone somewhere will do there best to stand on it.

[Mollymews]

23 hours ago, Marsellus Walcott said:

Meanwhile, you could be changing in your skybox. Or tp to it as soon as someone gets too close. Or tp elsewhere. Or avoid changing clothes when other players are in the vicinity. Or use your body's alpha while changing, etc...Oh! And ban list that person for eternity, so he would never be able to approach your land again.

Look, I get it. You want total control of what happens within your land. You want to be able to do things exactly as you could in the old Linden Houses. That's all fair and square.

But here is the thing: The older Linden Houses were a huge failure. The word Ghost Town comes to mind.

Now, LL is trying to avoid that. They are going for something new.

picking up on these points

A question. Should LL through design, make new users who have purchased a premium account with a starter home provided by LL, jump through hoops to secure for themselves privacy, a privacy driven by modesty, when in those homes?

For 16 years now LL have been obsessed with baking the ideals of community into their own mainland offerings. A further question is: How is that working for LL after all these years, in premium account uptake and conversion?  The new starter home continent is anything but new. It's just another go by LL at the baked community ideal, same old, same old.. The only thing that makes them more attractive over LL's previous attempts is the increase in parcel size and LI  for the same price.

i predict that the isolationist tendency found on the previous 512m Linden Homes continents will continue to prevail in the main, as it did and does continue to prevail on old mainland on those parcels occupied as homes. A question is why is that ? What's with this isolationist tendency ? The fundamental answer to these types of questions is that modesty drives home parcel isolationism. A want for privacy is not a driver or tendency in itself per se. Privacy is a means to securing modesty for one's self in one's own home

there are two ways to implement home parcel privacy. Preemptive: banlines. Permissive: scripted orb. LL have now chosen to go with a permissive (after the fact) method on the new Linden Homes continent, when those who do want parcel privacy control for modesty purposes are better served by a preemptive (before the fact) method

a choice seemingly made in accordance with the baked community ideal. An ideal which has now been extended to permissively incorporate a premium account's Linden-provided home into the community commonweal - leaving the home owner with only an after-the-fact method to secure their modesty in their own home

most people do start out their SL with a sense of modesty. It can for be for some people that the longer they stay in SL the concept of modesty tends to wear away due to the vagaries of rendering. Many people though still do what they can, as best they can to be modest even with the current mesh bodies. Using appliers and judicious use of alphas to cover their bits as best they can, in addition to their mesh clothes. A person might be showing a lot of skin, but quite often their bits are pastied or alpha'ed out

a person, not you, also mentioned earlier, that SL is a multi-user environment, therefore those who want preemptive privacy control are out-of-luck.  A thing to consider, the real world is a multi-user experience also. Yet, at the base societal level there is an expectation of privacy in our own homes. How well or poorly the provided methods to secure that do operate, is immaterial to the expectation. It is only material to the operation, which is not the same thing

 

[Marsellus Walcott]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

15

7 minutes ago, Mollymews said:

picking up on these points

A question. Should LL through design, make new users who have purchased a premium account with a starter home provided by LL, jump through hoops to secure for themselves privacy, a privacy driven by modesty, when in those homes?

For 16 years now LL have been obsessed with baking the ideals of community into their own mainland offerings. A further question is: How is that working for LL after all these years, in premium account uptake and conversion?  The new starter home continent is anything but new. It's just another go by LL at the baked community ideal, same old, same old.. The only thing that makes them more attractive over LL's previous attempts is the increase in parcel size and LI  for the same price.

i predict that the isolationist tendency found on the previous 512m Linden Homes continents will continue to prevail in the main, as it did and does continue to prevail on old mainland on those parcels occupied as homes. A question is why is that ? What's with this isolationist tendency ? The fundamental answer to these types of questions is that modesty drives home parcel isolationism. A want for privacy is not a driver or tendency in itself per se. Privacy is a means to securing modesty for one's self in one's own home

there are two ways to implement home parcel privacy. Preemptive: banlines. Permissive: scripted orb. LL have now chosen to go with a permissive (after the fact) method on the new Linden Homes continent, when those who do want parcel privacy control for modesty purposes are better served by a preemptive (before the fact) method

a choice seemingly made in accordance with the baked community ideal. An ideal which has now been extended to permissively incorporate a premium account's Linden-provided home into the community commonweal - leaving the home owner with only an after-the-fact method to secure their modesty in their own home

most people do start out their SL with a sense of modesty. It can for be for some people that the longer they stay in SL the concept of modesty tends to wear away due to the vagaries of rendering. Many people though still do what they can, as best they can to be modest even with the current mesh bodies. Using appliers and judicious use of alphas to cover their bits as best they can, in addition to their mesh clothes. A person might be showing a lot of skin, but quite often their bits are pastied or alpha'ed out

a person, not you, also mentioned earlier, that SL is a multi-user environment, therefore those who want preemptive privacy control are out-of-luck.  A thing to consider, the real world is a multi-user experience also. Yet, at the base societal level there is an expectation of privacy in our own homes. How well or poorly the provided methods to secure that do operate, is immaterial to the expectation. It is only material to the operation, which is not the same thing

 

I honestly beg to differ.

First: baked communities DO work when done right. Just check all those several huge privately run estates (Hollywood, Eden, Fair Chang, etc... ) which have been running for several years.

Now, it is anything but new?

When has LL removed ban lines before?

When did they really put an effort in the overall looks of the continent as they did in Bellisseria? Not even Blake is close to that.

What made Blake such a huge success, when it comes to desirability, is its sheer quantity of "water" parcels and the freedom of travel in it. Guess what? The new continent is trying to mimic exactly that.

Again, they can't really force us to interact with each other. But, after roughly a week in the new continent, I can tell you this: I have never had so many opportunities to do so from within my parcel ever since I first joined SL, back in 2005.

Heck, just check the map at ANY time. It's always buzzing with activity. The original LH was never like that. Not even when they first launched.

I have parcels both in Blake and Jeugeot. Both have water and road access. And, still,  I've spent most of my time lately in that new continent. They did something right there.

Will it work? No idea. But I sincerely think it's worth a shot. It's, imho, one of the most exciting things LL has brought to us in the last few years. And I'm sincerely hoping that ban or no ban lines, they succeed in what they have planned for it.

[Itazura Radio]

1 hour ago, Mollymews said:

picking up on these points

A question. Should LL through design, make new users who have purchased a premium account with a starter home provided by LL, jump through hoops to secure for themselves privacy, a privacy driven by modesty, when in those homes?

For 16 years now LL have been obsessed with baking the ideals of community into their own mainland offerings. A further question is: How is that working for LL after all these years, in premium account uptake and conversion?  The new starter home continent is anything but new. It's just another go by LL at the baked community ideal, same old, same old.. The only thing that makes them more attractive over LL's previous attempts is the increase in parcel size and LI  for the same price.

i predict that the isolationist tendency found on the previous 512m Linden Homes continents will continue to prevail in the main, as it did and does continue to prevail on old mainland on those parcels occupied as homes. A question is why is that ? What's with this isolationist tendency ? The fundamental answer to these types of questions is that modesty drives home parcel isolationism. A want for privacy is not a driver or tendency in itself per se. Privacy is a means to securing modesty for one's self in one's own home

there are two ways to implement home parcel privacy. Preemptive: banlines. Permissive: scripted orb. LL have now chosen to go with a permissive (after the fact) method on the new Linden Homes continent, when those who do want parcel privacy control for modesty purposes are better served by a preemptive (before the fact) method

a choice seemingly made in accordance with the baked community ideal. An ideal which has now been extended to permissively incorporate a premium account's Linden-provided home into the community commonweal - leaving the home owner with only an after-the-fact method to secure their modesty in their own home

most people do start out their SL with a sense of modesty. It can for be for some people that the longer they stay in SL the concept of modesty tends to wear away due to the vagaries of rendering. Many people though still do what they can, as best they can to be modest even with the current mesh bodies. Using appliers and judicious use of alphas to cover their bits as best they can, in addition to their mesh clothes. A person might be showing a lot of skin, but quite often their bits are pastied or alpha'ed out

a person, not you, also mentioned earlier, that SL is a multi-user environment, therefore those who want preemptive privacy control are out-of-luck.  A thing to consider, the real world is a multi-user experience also. Yet, at the base societal level there is an expectation of privacy in our own homes. How well or poorly the provided methods to secure that do operate, is immaterial to the expectation. It is only material to the operation, which is not the same thing

 

Or, maybe since most of these houses are being snapped up by long term residents they are seeding it with the sort of people who don't mind a new person duckwalking accidentally into their back yard every now and then. They might strike up a conversation and offer to even help them or point them to someone who can. So when those new premium members get a Linden Home to start with they'll be met with friendly faces and hellos instead of teleports and get off my lawns.

Seems to me like the first thing a lot of newbies do is strip off their clothing in a public place and comment about how they look like a naked Ken or Barbie. Which do you think is going to put them off staying in SL more in those critical early stages? Is it the prospect that someone somewhere might get a peek at their blurry pixel ta-tas or their non-existent gentleman sausage? Or is it not seeing much of anyone to talk to and anyone they do see has given them the definite impression they probably don't want to talk to them (or possibly anyone else)? Will the environment that shapes their experience tell them this is a dangerous place where strangers should be feared and you need to protect yourself? Or will it tell them strangers are welcome because they can often be a good thing? Every friend you have now was once a stranger.

Edit: BTW, I remember when default avatars were much more modest, catering to the idea that anything more than a slightly shaded nipple might offend people's sensibilities. It didn't. If anything they complained they were too modest and went right out and upgraded to a more anatomically correct model.

Edited April 22, 2019 by Itazura Radio

[Mollymews]

1 minute ago, Marsellus Walcott said:

Will it work? No idea. But I sincerely think it's worth a shot. It's, imho, one of the most exciting things LL has brought to us in the last few years. And I'm sincerely hoping that ban or no ban lines, they succeed in what they have planned for it.

i hope that it does work for LL in terms of increasing the rate of premium uptake/conversion. And I am happy that you can see how this is going to work for you. As I am also happy for those like yourself, of which there are many. Baked commonweal community living is not for everyone, but for those who are into it then this is a pretty good offering from LL

When anything new is introduced by LL, it does generate a fair amount of excitement, goodwill and enthusiasm. After the first flush of new things, matters tend to drift toward being ordinary and everyday, and people fall back to their normal habits. Which is the basis for my cautioning

 

someone else made on here an interesting posit also, about maybe there could be an alternative closed continent offered as an option for new premium accounts in addition to the current more open home parcels

i would find it interesting to see how such a closed box/room offering would go. For example: a closed box/room 1024x1024x4096. Can see nothing (including objects) beyond the room's boundaries. Cannot move outside the bounds of your room. No dots show up on the minimap or world map. Scripts cannot see other avatars or objects outside of the room

what for me would be most interesting, would be the uptake ratio of  closed box/room parcels as home spaces, compared to the new Linden Homes offerings. Ebbe Linden talks a lot about making data-driven decisions. Perhaps he might try something like closed box parceled continents as an option for new premium accounts in addition to the existing more open parcel offering , to give him something completely different to measure data against

[Mollymews]

12 minutes ago, Itazura Radio said:

Seems to me like the first thing a lot of newbies do is strip off their clothing in a public place and comment about how they look like a naked Ken or Barbie. Which do you think is going to put them off staying in SL more in those critical early stages? Is is the prospect that someone somewhere might get a peek at their blurry pixel ta-tas or their non-existent gentleman sausage? Or is it not seeing much of anyone to talk to and anyone they do see has given them the definite impression they probably don't want to talk to them (or possibly anyone else)? Will the environment that shapes their experience tell them this is a dangerous place where strangers should be feared and you need to protect yourself? Or will it tell them strangers are welcome because they can often be a good thing? Every friend you have now was once a stranger.

yes new people who are not yet premium or have not yet put money into SL do that. Change their outfits on the platforms at Social Island and on the paths and public spaces at the Community Gateways.  Many more new people though can be found at the bottom of oceans,hovering way up in the sky, and/or hiding in the bushes doing this

for new people it is not a binary choice between deciding where they get changed, or, deciding to chat to the other people at the Social Island/Gateway. They can decide to both, either or neither, independently, and they do. One decision is not dependent on the other

[Kyrah Abattoir]

I don't think the privacy concerns of residents are the main issue that prevents good user retension. I've always been a believer that whether it's games or virtual world, this is more than just providing a piece of software, it's about sticking to a vision instead of trying to broaden your userbase as much as possible by trying to cater to absolutely everyone. You will fail.

[animats]

LL seems finally to have found someone who understands game balance. That someone got this right, and they'll have more influence within LL due to that. I'm curious to see what happens next.

Game balance is usually thought of as weapon strength adjustment in a first person shooter, but the social aspects have been worked on before. If you're into this at all, read the famous paper, The Lessons of Lucasfilm's Habitat. Randy Farmer and Chip Morningstar built the very first online graphical virtual world. Before the Internet. They made its society work, more or less. It was all new back then, and they had some surprises. They describe some of their mistakes.

A more recent paper is Social Design Practices for Human-Scale Online Games from 2018. This has a good list of references. An important one is Game design patterns that facilitate strangers becoming “friends”. This gets very specific. The "proximity" section is directly relevant to SL, which is very land-oriented. Under "proximity", they list:

• Density
  "A high density game is one with a low amount of distance between players so they are likely to bump into one another. A low density game is one with a large amount of distance between players." (The startup of the new continent got that one right)

• Frequent serendipitous meetings
  "Due to high density, people are likely to ‘randomly’ bump into one another repeatedly. This creates exposure and familiarity between strangers. Meeting the same person again and again feels like magical fate, but it is primarily the outcome of well designed statistics and logistics." (Got that one, too)
   
• Crossing class, race and age boundaries
  "The single most effective method of creating friends that cross traditional social boundaries is to put two people together in close proximity. People form friendships with those that are nearby and if their choices are limited, they’ll form choices with those that would not be their instinctive (often biased) choice." (Probably got that one.)
   
• Connection to other requirements (This is more relevant to games and role play)

I get the feeling that whomever is pulling the strings behind this new continent understands this.

If our little virtual society is going to be manipulated, it's good to have someone with a clue doing it.

 

 

[Zoya McDonnagh]

4 hours ago, animats said:

LL seems finally to have found someone who understands game balance. That someone got this right, and they'll have more influence within LL due to that. I'm curious to see what happens next.

Game balance is usually thought of as weapon strength adjustment in a first person shooter, but the social aspects have been worked on before. If you're into this at all, read the famous paper, The Lessons of Lucasfilm's Habitat. Randy Farmer and Chip Morningstar built the very first online graphical virtual world. Before the Internet. They made its society work, more or less. It was all new back then, and they had some surprises. They describe some of their mistakes.

A more recent paper is Social Design Practices for Human-Scale Online Games from 2018. This has a good list of references. An important one is Game design patterns that facilitate strangers becoming “friends”. This gets very specific. The "proximity" section is directly relevant to SL, which is very land-oriented. Under "proximity", they list:

• Density
  "A high density game is one with a low amount of distance between players so they are likely to bump into one another. A low density game is one with a large amount of distance between players." (The startup of the new continent got that one right)

• Frequent serendipitous meetings
  "Due to high density, people are likely to ‘randomly’ bump into one another repeatedly. This creates exposure and familiarity between strangers. Meeting the same person again and again feels like magical fate, but it is primarily the outcome of well designed statistics and logistics." (Got that one, too)
   
• Crossing class, race and age boundaries
  "The single most effective method of creating friends that cross traditional social boundaries is to put two people together in close proximity. People form friendships with those that are nearby and if their choices are limited, they’ll form choices with those that would not be their instinctive (often biased) choice." (Probably got that one.)
   
• Connection to other requirements (This is more relevant to games and role play)

I get the feeling that whomever is pulling the strings behind this new continent understands this.

If our little virtual society is going to be manipulated, it's good to have someone with a clue doing it.

 

 

Interesting reads! Thank you for posting them. As I was reading, my thoughts would drift between here in SL and in a certain popular MMORPG that is definitely "low density" for those starting out in it.

[Blush Bravin]

7 hours ago, Mollymews said:

picking up on these points

A question. Should LL through design, make new users who have purchased a premium account with a starter home provided by LL, jump through hoops to secure for themselves privacy, a privacy driven by modesty, when in those homes?

For 16 years now LL have been obsessed with baking the ideals of community into their own mainland offerings. A further question is: How is that working for LL after all these years, in premium account uptake and conversion?  The new starter home continent is anything but new. It's just another go by LL at the baked community ideal, same old, same old.. The only thing that makes them more attractive over LL's previous attempts is the increase in parcel size and LI  for the same price.

i predict that the isolationist tendency found on the previous 512m Linden Homes continents will continue to prevail in the main, as it did and does continue to prevail on old mainland on those parcels occupied as homes. A question is why is that ? What's with this isolationist tendency ? The fundamental answer to these types of questions is that modesty drives home parcel isolationism. A want for privacy is not a driver or tendency in itself per se. Privacy is a means to securing modesty for one's self in one's own home

there are two ways to implement home parcel privacy. Preemptive: banlines. Permissive: scripted orb. LL have now chosen to go with a permissive (after the fact) method on the new Linden Homes continent, when those who do want parcel privacy control for modesty purposes are better served by a preemptive (before the fact) method

a choice seemingly made in accordance with the baked community ideal. An ideal which has now been extended to permissively incorporate a premium account's Linden-provided home into the community commonweal - leaving the home owner with only an after-the-fact method to secure their modesty in their own home

most people do start out their SL with a sense of modesty. It can for be for some people that the longer they stay in SL the concept of modesty tends to wear away due to the vagaries of rendering. Many people though still do what they can, as best they can to be modest even with the current mesh bodies. Using appliers and judicious use of alphas to cover their bits as best they can, in addition to their mesh clothes. A person might be showing a lot of skin, but quite often their bits are pastied or alpha'ed out

a person, not you, also mentioned earlier, that SL is a multi-user environment, therefore those who want preemptive privacy control are out-of-luck.  A thing to consider, the real world is a multi-user experience also. Yet, at the base societal level there is an expectation of privacy in our own homes. How well or poorly the provided methods to secure that do operate, is immaterial to the expectation. It is only material to the operation, which is not the same thing

 

As a moderator for the Maitreya Lara Friends group, I see people asking where to find pasties or how to cover up their bits all the time. I remember oh so many years ago when going to shop at the Free Dove there were changing rooms so people could be modest. So I agree that modesty is a very real issue for some residents. But I do believe they are a minority, but being a minority shouldn't mean your needs are ignored.

As for forced community, I kind of disagree. I'm a retired teacher. If there is a better example of forced community I don't know of one. It works. It has problems but we don't give up on it. We find ways to work with different personalities and different needs. We don't let the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few though. We have to find a way to serve all. Is it easy? No!

Unfortunately, some believe in using segregation to meet the needs, which is completely wrong. To say you go over there and play and we'll play here is absurd especially when here is new and shiny and over there is old and worn out with little appeal. I personally sold double prim land in Barcola and opened another premium account just so I could live in Bellisseria. That's how much shinier it is over regular mainland. 

Edited April 22, 2019 by Blush Bravin

[Alyona Su]

6 hours ago, Itazura Radio said:

Edit: BTW, I remember when default avatars were much more modest, catering to the idea that anything more than a slightly shaded nipple might offend people's sensibilities. It didn't. If anything they complained they were too modest and went right out and upgraded to a more anatomically correct model.

Back on the Teen grid, you had parma-underwear. Could *not* be removed. 

[Boyd Wolfhunter]

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Posted 11 minutes ago

I would like to choose what maturity level to live in G,M or A .  we all pay we should have a choice to what fits us best. this world is made from and for all of us no one should be excluded every ones SL is different  we are all here for different reasons. as with no ban lines limits what you can do in your own home/land  that you pay for  I do not like seeing the ban lines and shut them off with the option in my viewer. and I understand community is good but as the previous post states some one entering could still be shocked 😲 if said reason for being shocked is in the right maturity level you won't have to be worried about banned or suspended account for doing something in your own home/yard. and how much lag are the orbs going to create if every one has one running. I personally  would like a maturity level choice so I can do things in my own home yard with out getting the boot from SL. and this way you can just ban old school way and not use the orb and not worry about getting in trouble from what you choose to do on your land and not cause lag from the orb script running.

[Zoya McDonnagh]

3 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

So I agree that modesty is a very real issue for some residents. But I do believe they are a minority, but being a minority shouldn't mean your needs are ignored.

Me in 2006 when receiving an unsolicited lewd IM regarding my avatar and what was accidentally seen: freezes like a deer in headlights

Me in 2019 when receiving an unsolicited lewd IM regarding my avatar and what was accidentally seen: Either ignores them totally or sends them a snarky response involving a LM to where they can buy that same body and drool over themselves
 

[Blush Bravin]

3 minutes ago, Zoya McDonnagh said:

Me in 2006 when receiving an unsolicited lewd IM regarding my avatar and what was accidentally seen: freezes like a deer in headlights

Me in 2019 when receiving an unsolicited lewd IM regarding my avatar and what was accidentally seen: Either ignores them totally or sends them a snarky response involving a LM to where they can buy that same body and drool over themselves
 

I would react the same way now. We all know that it's impossible to be modest all the time with mesh and teleporting as it is, but that doesn't mean we don't still try.  I am one of those who wears applier panties all the time. I know I'm old school and maybe too modest but I still hear my mom telling me to be sure my undies are clean in case I get into an accident.  

Love the comment about where to get their own to drool over!

[Zoya McDonnagh]

1 minute ago, Blush Bravin said:

I would react the same way now. We all know that it's impossible to be modest all the time with mesh and teleporting as it is, but that doesn't mean we don't still try.  I am one of those who wears applier panties all the time. I know I'm old school and maybe too modest but I still hear my mom telling me to be sure my undies are clean in case I get into an accident.

Either applier panties, or alpha'd out, most days here lol I joked once w/ a friend that I would love to make a line of panties with comments on them like, "Take a picture, it lasts longer!", "Like what you see, perv?", "I cammed you faster!" or simply a hand flipping  the bird. Specifically for the club cammers that focus on your booty and you know they're trying to angle their cameras up your skirt.

6 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

Love the comment about where to get their own to drool over!

While I still prefer proactive privacy when it is called for/my choice (due to stuff in the past), something in me broke after I turned 40 irl LOL I can be the sweetest, most caring person in the world, but those that tick me off? Suddenly I just do not care at all about "play nice with others!" haha

[Selenity Heartsong]

I hope everyone has had a good holiday that celebrates it. I've read most (still have some things on this page to read since I was gone I'm technically still on vacation and don't get home til late us Central Tuesday Evening) and one thing I wanted to say...

I pay my premium subscription with lindens. What I do is just cash out the lindens needed and leave it in my US balance and then there we go. I have my premium membership paid. One time I forgot to cash out my lindens and SL just did it for me but I normally just like to have it there because they only auto did it I think cuz I was more than 3 days late on it? But yeah, you can cash out lindens and pay for the premium that way.

On another note. 

I'm in the middle ground on this. So far, I haven't had to deal with issues that I know of in regards to the reason why I used it before. Also, it only became recently known that I got one of the Linden homes and I didn't do the direct to SL screenshot so the lm isn't there. The people I've had to deal with before A. Can't rez stuff and B. Still have to find me. I've only told well two people which region I'm in exactly. 

I'm also waiting to see if the linden supplied orb will work. I don't already have an orb because well I thought I had one, I remember using one before, but I am just plain NOT finding it in my inventory. #slproblems

Still, I'd jump at a beautifully landscaped, community with the option to if I needed it can't access unless you're part of the access list, group, etc. I'm not sure that the Lindens would even have to go half & half and likely more like 70 with the current layout and 30 percent Secured laid out but I could be wrong. Going half and half might be easier? Though I agree to make sure that area is widely separated from the free travel areas.

For the travel Concerns on travel sims:

In the traditional homes at least with my parcel, it doesn't go over into the protected land roads so travel that way should be safe. I've now seen how close the boat parcels are and that they do go over into what one would think would be open waters so that might need to be rethought out or perhaps have open harbour areas for those that wish to travel by boat to come and dock in at with a reasonable object return time for them to get their boat back after deboarding. Preferably next to an open rez area so people can also rez out their vehicles and the like to go and travel these nice roads.  May also be a good idea to have the sim crossings clearly marked, maybe with stop signs or stop lights? So people can know they need to slow down and that they're about to cross? Might add to the immersive feel or with one of those caution yellow signs that say sim crossing.

EDIT: ((Adding in quotes from the rest of the page I read and wanted to quote/address))

9 hours ago, Mollymews said:

i hope that it does work for LL in terms of increasing the rate of premium uptake/conversion. And I am happy that you can see how this is going to work for you. As I am also happy for those like yourself, of which there are many. Baked commonweal community living is not for everyone, but for those who are into it then this is a pretty good offering from LL

When anything new is introduced by LL, it does generate a fair amount of excitement, goodwill and enthusiasm. After the first flush of new things, matters tend to drift toward being ordinary and everyday, and people fall back to their normal habits. Which is the basis for my cautioning

 

someone else made on here an interesting posit also, about maybe there could be an alternative closed continent offered as an option for new premium accounts in addition to the current more open home parcels

i would find it interesting to see how such a closed box/room offering would go. For example: a closed box/room 1024x1024x4096. Can see nothing (including objects) beyond the room's boundaries. Cannot move outside the bounds of your room. No dots show up on the minimap or world map. Scripts cannot see other avatars or objects outside of the room

what for me would be most interesting, would be the uptake ratio of  closed box/room parcels as home spaces, compared to the new Linden Homes offerings. Ebbe Linden talks a lot about making data-driven decisions. Perhaps he might try something like closed box parceled continents as an option for new premium accounts in addition to the existing more open parcel offering , to give him something completely different to measure data against

Not a closed box no!!! lol sorry got my mind going on that one. I really do like the layout of the current new mainland. If the old mainland was staying and they offered a way for individuals to change their current linden homes and parcels to the same 1024s or 512s with the same houses and have them not count against your LI count I could see people going back to the old method where it's not laid out like a neighborhood at all,  it would be sad to leave the beautifully landscaped version but people would do it. Except... they are phasing out all of the old premium linden homes for these new models which yay (the old houses did need an update) but they don't have the option to have the privacy they want so we're back to square one over here. 

Now I kept a Linden home instead of going to buy mainland because that is still an added expense and unless you get REALLY lucky you are going to pay anywhere from the cost of a yearly subscription or more for the mainland and then you are also just another plot near other people and then you still have the downside of having to use the prims to buy a house instead of getting the 'bonus' prims so to speak that you'd get from having a Linden home and then using those prims to decorate.

8 hours ago, animats said:

LL seems finally to have found someone who understands game balance. That someone got this right, and they'll have more influence within LL due to that. I'm curious to see what happens next.

Game balance is usually thought of as weapon strength adjustment in a first person shooter, but the social aspects have been worked on before. If you're into this at all, read the famous paper, The Lessons of Lucasfilm's Habitat. Randy Farmer and Chip Morningstar built the very first online graphical virtual world. Before the Internet. They made its society work, more or less. It was all new back then, and they had some surprises. They describe some of their mistakes.

A more recent paper is Social Design Practices for Human-Scale Online Games from 2018. This has a good list of references. An important one is Game design patterns that facilitate strangers becoming “friends”. This gets very specific. The "proximity" section is directly relevant to SL, which is very land-oriented. Under "proximity", they list:

• Density
  "A high density game is one with a low amount of distance between players so they are likely to bump into one another. A low density game is one with a large amount of distance between players." (The startup of the new continent got that one right)

• Frequent serendipitous meetings
  "Due to high density, people are likely to ‘randomly’ bump into one another repeatedly. This creates exposure and familiarity between strangers. Meeting the same person again and again feels like magical fate, but it is primarily the outcome of well designed statistics and logistics." (Got that one, too)
   
• Crossing class, race and age boundaries
  "The single most effective method of creating friends that cross traditional social boundaries is to put two people together in close proximity. People form friendships with those that are nearby and if their choices are limited, they’ll form choices with those that would not be their instinctive (often biased) choice." (Probably got that one.)
   
• Connection to other requirements (This is more relevant to games and role play)

I get the feeling that whomever is pulling the strings behind this new continent understands this.

If our little virtual society is going to be manipulated, it's good to have someone with a clue doing it.

 

 

This was a very interesting read. Thank you for posting it. I haven't met any of my neighbors yet but again... still on vacation lol.

Edited April 22, 2019 by IthilwenRose

[Dax Mars]

I log on and go to adjust my access setting to allow guests in only to find my house has been made open to bloody everybody with no warning.  Now I read here I'll to your a "approved" device for security now so people can still roam though my lot..

NO THANKS...  I'm going to go clean out my new "home" and abandon it and for back to old mainland where I still have come control over

 

[Aethelwine]

I wonder if when they move to the cloud they can offer instanced homes to premium members that have the security and more that some seem to miss from their new continent homes. I would think they could make instanced homes completely neighbourless and offer estate level security features for them.

[LittleMe Jewell]

37 minutes ago, Dax Mars said:

I'm going to go clean out my new "home" and abandon it and for back to old mainland where I still have come control over

There are a line of folks waiting to snatch the home the second it becomes available. 

LL cannot please everyone.  No matter what they do, some will not like it.  Given how few seem to have abandoned their houses over this tells me that the majority either agree with LL on it or do not mind the new rules enough to move.