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Prokofy Neva

Will the New Linden Homes Affect the Rentals Business?

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Linden Lab is always competing with their own customers, but they have a good reason -- their own customers are generally too preoccupied to assist with on-boarding new residents, and Linden Homes make a nice, easy way for new customers to have a home without fear of all the decisions and risks.

So my instinct is to say "no," the new project won't affect business. It will lead to more furniture purchases and when the economy is better it is a tide that lifts all boats.

Whenever the Lindens have built communities like this (a friend calls them "Linden Assisted Living"), it doesn't seem to affect rentals on the mainland, and certainly not on the private islands. At least, not much. Just as the Lindens rolled out what will likely be popular -- new boat slips -- one of my boat houses rented yesterday -- it has more prims and flexibility. I find boats are popular in waves -- they fill up, they're in demand, but then people get sick of them. Perhaps in spring, when they wish to plant a garden, and there is only water all around LOL. 

People like to buy their own homes and switch them out -- Linden homes get dull after awhile. There is an enormous variety of houses on the market and hopefully Linden Homes won't affect the house merchants' business.

Most rentals are on islands, Mainland rentals are a niche, and premium accounts are a minority of users, with most owning land themselves rather than using the tier to rent (some landlords like me accept tier in lieu of rent). Of course, the Lindens want to increase this number of premium accounts, and I'm all for that, because it creates more stable communities with people more dedicated to the value of SL and increasing it. It means more sales of both furniture and land.

Yes, it seems like a large number they are adding -- 400 sims ("regions," as we are supposed to call them) is nearly 10% of the 5,000 of the Mainland, correct? Or I may not have the latest numbers. But it's a lot, with more to come!

From the sound of this video, they expect to retire their old ones. Perhaps they weren't selling so well?

I find it hard to imagine that people will move into these identical suburban houses and leave the Asian, hobbit, and A-frame houses that at least represent some variety of style. To be sure, whenever I look at the map, I see a fair number of green dots over the Assisted Living sims. But in fact, whenever I got and get a house myself -- and I have tried a dozen spots -- I find there is no one on the sim. And closer to the ground, it seems no one is online. Even with the option to change wall paper and such, I myself get bored quickly with Linden homes. So it's only an anecdotal impression. I suppose the Lindens will then get rid of the old ones if the 512s are not taken, to make way for the new. So it may not stay at this higher number of 400 new regions plus whatever the figure is for the old.

The Lindens say *some* of the houses are bigger than the old ones. But some are definitely dinky and no amount of forums' regulars claiming to the contrary can undo that fact -- go and look; better yet, go and *live* and try even to fit a bed and dresser in those boxes.

The boat houses will likely be more popular than the houses, but who knows, we'll see. One good thing about the "planned communities" is that they are planned -- there are waterways, peninsulas, shores, public areas of various types -- you wish the Lindens had done this with the Mainland especially with waterways.

Ultimately, I think the Linden Homes don't compete with private rentals because of all the rules they have. You can't replace the houses. You can't have the house in search or engage in any commercial activity. That means not even a gatcha yard sale. I have commercial activity restricted in my rentals, too. Why should I have you rent cheap land and reduce your business costs and make money from land I could be making money from? That's why commercial rentals cost more. But generally if someone wants a yard sale now and then, I just ask them to put it up in the sky. If someone wants their house in search, they can do so if it is not a store, and of course stores can, and it's included in rent. That's not possible in a Linden Home, and people chafe at that restriction.

It seems you can have skyboxes on Linden Homes land at 2000 or higher, at least that's the rule in the new ones.

The main problem I see with Linden Homes is the use of ban lines. It seems there is even more use of it here than on the Mainland at large, perhaps because the houses are close together. It's super annoying trying to fly around and smacking into ban lines everywhere along the boats. You can't fly over the houses to get to the public areas due to ban lines and have to hunt for a crossing. 

Even so, I think there will be a big rush for the boats. What do you think?

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27 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

It seems you can have skyboxes on Linden Homes land at 2000 or higher, at least that's the rule in the new ones.

Those skyboxes may make some difference. As you note, the parcels will always hold one or another of the Mole-crafted prefabs, and that reduces the long-term interest of the Homes, but that may be somewhat ameliorated by the skybox option, combined with some buildable parcel area available for exterior customization (a garden, a kiddie pool, a fishing boat, etc.).

Earlier this morning I took the first houseboat parcel offered and started idly playing with it. I've long had much better waterfront than this on Zindra and on the Atoll, but it's amusing to experiment for now.

It does feel strange, though, conforming to the cookie-cutter suburban aesthetic that I've always eschewed.

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6 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

Those skyboxes may make some difference. As you note, the parcels will always hold one or another of the Mole-crafted prefabs, and that reduces the long-term interest of the Homes, but that may be somewhat ameliorated by the skybox option, combined with some buildable parcel area available for exterior customization (a garden, a kiddie pool, a fishing boat, etc.).

Earlier this morning I took the first houseboat parcel offered and started idly playing with it. I've long had much better waterfront than this on Zindra and on the Atoll, but it's amusing to experiment for now.

It does feel strange, though, conforming to the cookie-cutter suburban aesthetic that I've always eschewed.

The Lindens shouldn't have had ban lines work if they allow skyboxes and should have told people to put orbs in their skyboxes and not harass their fellow residents on the ground.

I grew up in RL suburbia which I and even my parents fled after awhile, so I pall comes over me when I see those identical houses. But less and less percentage of Americans seem to live in suburbia and perhaps that's why they aspire to it virtually (they can't afford a house in RL as our parents did). I do see some people adding things as you say but I guess I can't get much of a garden on a boat house lol. Maybe I will get one of the tiny ones on another account and decorate it for tinies.

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12 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

I grew up in RL suburbia

Soon, this will be a disability. I, too, was raised in suburbia.

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Posted (edited)

It's hard to predict the future of course but I believe the new homes will mostly be populated by people who own their own 512 or 1024 on Mainland now. There will also be some moving from the old Linden Homes and from the islands but probably not nearly as many as LL seems to hope and the private estate owners may fear.

The mainland rentals are probably the part of SL that will be the least affected. Those are mainly occupied by people who are not premium members and I can't believe many wil sign up for premium if they aren't already.

Edited by ChinRey

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On 4/16/2019 at 2:52 PM, Prokofy Neva said:

The Lindens shouldn't have had ban lines work if they allow skyboxes and should have told people to put orbs in their skyboxes and not harass their fellow residents on the ground.

Yesterday's change to disable banlines and (soon) disallow all security scripts except the approved Linden version will draw a bunch of folks from the Mainland. Sure, a few folks will reject Linden Homes for lack of their beloved banlines and hair-trigger orbs, but they'll never move the market the way vehicle users and "freedom to roam" advocates seem to be flocking to the new continent.

Especially in light of the new rules, it's very early days and there's surely too little data to assess impact on Mainland rentals in particular. But for those renting-out waterfront (Mainland or even private Estate parcels) around Blake Sea specifically, it may be difficult to preserve the very substantial premium margins they've enjoyed. Sailing on the new continent isn't (yet?) at comparable scale, but it definitely has appeal to those of us tired of getting separated from our watercraft by "privacy" measures whenever we venture anywhere near shore.

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On 4/17/2019 at 10:29 AM, ChinRey said:

It's hard to predict the future of course but I believe the new homes will mostly be populated by people who own their own 512 or 1024 on Mainland now. There will also be some moving from the old Linden Homes and from the islands but probably not nearly as many as LL seems to hope and the private estate owners may fear.

The mainland rentals are probably the part of SL that will be the least affected. Those are mainly occupied by people who are not premium members and I can't believe many wil sign up for premium if they aren't already.

So you think this is merely a displacement, not new Premiums getting these homes, but old premiums abandoning or selling their mainland and then taking one of these homes? That would be a shame. The Lindens used to tell us how many premium accounts were. It reached 100,000, then started to go down, and then they stopped reporting it like 10 years ago. So I wonder what it is now.

You're right that mainland rentals are people who aren't premiums -- but I find a fair number of my customers in fact *are* premiums. They buy land, even several parcels. Then they also have a rental for a change or a getaway. Or in between sales and new purchases, they rent. They rent went SL is working badly because they can leave easier (as some of my tenants are doing in the last few days as TPs haven't worked). Some come back, and then don't buy for awhile. SL has to be working well for people to buy.

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8 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

Yesterday's change to disable banlines and (soon) disallow all security scripts except the approved Linden version will draw a bunch of folks from the Mainland. Sure, a few folks will reject Linden Homes for lack of their beloved banlines and hair-trigger orbs, but they'll never move the market the way vehicle users and "freedom to roam" advocates seem to be flocking to the new continent.

Especially in light of the new rules, it's very early days and there's surely too little data to assess impact on Mainland rentals in particular. But for those renting-out waterfront (Mainland or even private Estate parcels) around Blake Sea specifically, it may be difficult to preserve the very substantial premium margins they've enjoyed. Sailing on the new continent isn't (yet?) at comparable scale, but it definitely has appeal to those of us tired of getting separated from our watercraft by "privacy" measures whenever we venture anywhere near shore.

Oh, is that ever good news! Because boating was looking like an impossibility, let alone flying, just to get out of your own lot, past your trigger-happy neighbour, out into the clear. I wonder what their security will be like, whether it will only work directly inside a house. That in theory should be possible for them.

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i dont think the demand for mainland will decrease, if anything i noticed its been going up now around sansara and jeogeot since they opened up the new home sims.

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I think there will be a temporary decline of demand for mainland, as people flock to try out the new Linden Homes. I think large swathes of old linden homes will get removed from the grid; maybe they'll consolidate everyone who wants to stay there, on the one "continent" instead of the four or so it used to be.

I don't think it will affect regular mainland much at all, in fact after six months, as people start to get bored with the Linden Homes and begin abandoning them, they will want to move back. 

Linden Support will also be a major factor I think; I already have a support ticket in because my Linden Home house disappeared completely and I'm unable to rez another.  I really don't think Linden Lab are prepared for the level of support requests they are going to receive about these houses, and people who can't get their tickets resolved will have no choice but abandon.

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10 hours ago, Matty Luminos said:

I already have a support ticket in because my Linden Home house disappeared completely and I'm unable to rez another. 

Oh bad luck :(    I must say the new region looks magnificent, risked a drive around on the new roads today. Incredibly popular too, the amount of green dots on the map is jaw dropping and I wish LL every success with this interesting new development.

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Well, colour me impressed. My faulty mailbox was fixed in slightly over 12 hours and I have a house again!  I also bought myself a sailboat and managed to sail almost halfway round the continent before a rough sim crossing disconnected me. It really is a lovely place. 

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There is currently much screaming here in the forums about there currently being no homes/boats available and many of those people are saying that the only reason they recently upgraded to Premium is for these houses/boats.  Thus there really has been an influx of new Premium users.  Whether or not they remain Premium and remain in Linden Homes is yet to be seen.

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Posted (edited)

Let's be honest, renting has always been a terrible deal for everyone except the landlord.

Quote

Qie Niangao wrote:

It does feel strange, though, conforming to the cookie-cutter suburban aesthetic that I've always eschewed.

But it's exactly what I've been looking and waiting for. And, the fact that we have polar opposite opinions here is important. Mainland will always have a place.

I bought-in to the VERY expensive Bay City plot just to have an aesthetic that was similar to these Linden Homes. That northeast 80s/90s vibe is exactly where I wanted to be. So I'm very happy this exists. Can't wait for them to print more so I can actually get one.

I don't think it will kill land rentals, or mainland, though. There will always be a place for people who want to built their OWN place and not fit to a particular theme.

For people like me, though, I happily sold my 1024 sqm "prime mainland" Bay City plot to jump on this free plot, which has only half the prims, just for the better neighborhood view.

Some of us just want to play dollhouse in a cookie-cutter town. I don't know how many of us there are, but hey, we filled it up fast so LL knew their demographic here.

Edited by Adeon Writer
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Re: "Let's be honest, renting has always been a terrible deal for everyone except the landlord."

Tell that to my hundreds of tenants, some of whom have been in my rentals literally for 10 years.

No one gets into Mainland rentals for the profits. 

 

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2 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

No one gets into Mainland rentals for the profits. 

hate to agree with ya prokofy but is true. my friend and i are barely renting enough to cover tier but its ok as long as people are having fun

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Tell that to my hundreds of tenants, some of whom have been in my rentals literally for 10 years.

A good point. My statement came off as a little harsh too. Rental doesn't work for me, but everyone is different.

Still, I don't see Linden homes being any danger to land rental. The 0LI houses are nice, but you only get their own selection. That's one edge you'll always have over LL.

As I understand it, LL's setup with linden homes isn't doing anything special that only the Lindens can do - just houses with their root on their own parcels. If you wanted to, you could offer their same service on a smaller scale, with your own 0LI (from the renter's perspective) content/scripts. Not everyone's a scripter, but the stuff they're using isn't too complex.

Edited by Adeon Writer

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5 hours ago, Adeon Writer said:

As I understand it, LL's setup with linden homes isn't doing anything special that only the Lindens can do

The Lindens created a continent without banlines and zero-trigger security orbs. No Mainland landlord can do that.

There's certainly still a role for Mainland rentals, but I wouldn't underestimate the draw of a whole hassle-free continent, either. Mainland serves a very diverse market, but it's also uniquely appealing to explorers and vehicle users.

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7 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

The Lindens created a continent without banlines and zero-trigger security orbs. No Mainland landlord can do that.

Yes but that may be a two-edged sword. We have to assume that if people have ban lines or aggressive security orbs on their land, it's because they want them.

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Posted (edited)
On 4/18/2019 at 11:02 PM, Prokofy Neva said:

So you think this is merely a displacement, not new Premiums getting these homes, but old premiums abandoning or selling their mainland and then taking one of these homes?

I think it will mainly be people moving from their existing mainland homes and a few increasing their tier to have both. But not only of course and besides, ony time can tell. We're all only guessing at this stage.

One thing I find interesting is that I've seen people comparing Belisseria to Bay City. It seems the new continent has caught quite a bit of attention from the BC SL'ers. It's particularly interesting that nobody's yet mentioned what is supposed to be one of Bay City's biggest selling points, the double prim tier. The new continent doesn't have it of course but that doesn't seem to matter at all.

Edited by ChinRey
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I love the flexibility that renting provides. I have mainland parcels that I own, and all too often when I get bored of an area, or just wish to relocate, I will abandon or sell the parcel for a ridiculously low amount and so have never actually either profited or broken even from land ownership. Time and again I will go back to the landlords I have rented from in the past, as my SL focus shifts to their area, as it is so much easier to come and go.

I'm currently situated in Satori, and so the new Linden Homes have not drawn me to indulge. I did look at the houses when they were previewed but have yet to visit the new continent. Should another Linden Home continent appear that would say, bridge Sansara to Satori, I would definitely look at them with interest. Their ease of acquisition and disposal would certainly give them the flexibility I enjoy from rentals.

I am a multi parcel enthusiast though.. I travel, and I like to have places that I can travel to and loiter, and so the Linden Home would only ever be one of my parcels. For those that prefer to just have a home, it could be that the rental business would lose their custom.

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3 hours ago, ChinRey said:

Yes but that may be a two-edged sword. We have to assume that if people have ban lines or aggressive security orbs on their land, it's because they want them.

Yes but they're a minority, and they cause a lot of grief for others. Kind of a tragedy of the commons, really. Or anyway some kind of moral hazard.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, ChinRey said:

One thing I find interesting is that I've seen people comparing Belisseria to Bay City. It seems the new continent has caught quite a bit of attention from the BC SL'ers. It's particularly interesting that nobody's yet mentioned what is supposed to be one of Bay City's biggest selling points, the double prim tier. The new continent doesn't have it of course but that doesn't seem to matter at all.

Right. I owned 1024 sqm in Bay City Brewster for almost a year. The buy-in last May was insane. I won't even admit how much it was. Before base 1024 premium, I owned 512 sqm of the same sim for the last 5 years or so. But, I considered it the best plot of all of Mainland if you only want Base Premium, because I personally hold a high value on neighbors and immersion and, in my opinion, most of mainland is kinda ugly and immersion-breaking, but not Bay City.

These new premium homes were so attractive to me that I sold what I considered to be the best plot of mainland, at a LOSS, just to move to one, the lack of double prim didn't even matter to me. The build just looks so much nicer, and playing house in suburbs is all I wanted anyway. It might look like the 9th layer of hell to some, and I get that, but to others, me included, it's what I've been looking for in SL for a very, very long time.

Plus i can extend my drawdistance more without dying. And the neighbors are actually online!

Totally worth it to me. No regrets.

 

(And even if I sold my bay city plot at a loss, it was still a considerable pile of pocket change.)

Edited by Adeon Writer
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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, ChinRey said:

one of Bay City's biggest selling points, the double prim tier. The new continent doesn't have it of course but that doesn't seem to matter at all.

The new continent does offer a prim advantage over your own land elsewhere on Mainland - your home on the new continent does not count against the 1024 prim/LI amount. Not quite double prim, but definitely 'more prim'.

Edited by LittleMe Jewell
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15 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

Yes but they're a minority, and they cause a lot of grief for others. Kind of a tragedy of the commons, really. Or anyway some kind of moral hazard.

I think it's more correct to say the majority is against other people's ban lines and security orbs but for their own. ;)

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