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Eva Paneer

Why am I crashing constantly

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Why am I crashing constantly when I'm trying to do a Teleport. Also why am I crashing when I'm just standing on a Sim that is not laggy. It's as if I can get a good twenty minutes in before I am logged out for no reason. I can maybe get in one good teleport per session then I have to relog and for some reason I'm reverted back to a place I had been days ago. This is getting maddening. I tried uninstalling and reinstalling a clean Singularity and I did the same for firestorm. Ruling both of those viewers out

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9 minutes ago, Eva Paneer said:

Why am I crashing constantly when I'm trying to do a Teleport. Also why am I crashing when I'm just standing on a Sim that is not laggy. It's as if I can get a good twenty minutes in before I am logged out for no reason. I can maybe get in one good teleport per session then I have to relog and for some reason I'm reverted back to a place I had been days ago. This is getting maddening. I tried uninstalling and reinstalling a clean Singularity and I did the same for firestorm. Ruling both of those viewers out

im experiencing that same thing as well. i know this has been going on for 4-5 days now and no word on if their looking into fixing it. but its annoying

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It has been happening to me too  for a few weeks but getting worse. I have tried both firestorm and singularity and getting the same on both.

I suspect my internet connection speed is no longer enough to  cope with the extra server load of mesh and animesh.

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did you above even try reading some forumposts? This problem has topics at multiple sections of the forum.

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10 minutes ago, Ethan Paslong said:

did you above even try reading some forumposts? This problem has topics at multiple sections of the forum.

Perhaps instead of just being narky you could have explained what the issue is?

I did do a search and found stuff and sim crossings and something under the sl viewer, neither would seem to have anything to do with crashing on tps or when not moving using other viewers.

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25 minutes ago, sylvie Gossamer said:

Perhaps instead of just being narky you could have explained what the issue is?

I did do a search and found stuff and sim crossings and something under the sl viewer, neither would seem to have anything to do with crashing on tps or when not moving using other viewers.

Check this JIRA: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-226577

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There is an issue with teleports such that they are stalling and causing disconnects for many residents.  Not every teleport, but many of them - some have estimated 2 out of 5 fail.  LL is aware there is an issue but since not everyone is experiencing it and it doesn't happen on every teleport, that makes it harder to debug. Skim the forums for various threads related to TPs and Sim Crossings also.

3 hours ago, Eva Paneer said:

Also why am I crashing when I'm just standing on a Sim that is not laggy.

Are you truly 'crashing' -- i.e. the viewer just flat exits with no warning - or are you getting the infamous 'you have been disconnected' message and you have to close the viewer yourself and relog?  There is a difference in those two.

Disconnects:  If you just tried to TP and it stalled or failed and then you were disconnected, it is likely related to the TP issue going on.  If you are really just standing aournd in a sim doing nothing and after many minutes you get disconnected, that is typically an issue with your connection itself -- maybe long ping times or high packet loss.

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34 minutes ago, sylvie Gossamer said:

Perhaps instead of just being narky you could have explained what the issue is?

narky doesn't come back with a translation for me, so guessing you mean snarky... and it wasn't .. i see nothing wrong with my question, but somehow it triggered you so guessing my comment was of any relevance.

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Thanks for that

I am getting both , random crashes when not TPing ,and TPs failing and then crashing with the TP blocked message. At one point cancelling the TP and trying again would work , but even that has stopped now.

 

I am not sure I understand the bug report, does it mean only Firestorm and Singularity are affected, and the SL Viewer isnt? If so, much as I hate it, I might download because SL is unusable at the moment

 

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38 minutes ago, Ethan Paslong said:

narky doesn't come back with a translation for me, so guessing you mean snarky... and it wasn't .. i see nothing wrong with my question, but somehow it triggered you so guessing my comment was of any relevance.

narky

(ˈnɑːkɪ)

adj, narkier or narkiest
slang irritable, complaining, or sarcastic
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12 minutes ago, sylvie Gossamer said:

I am not sure I understand the bug report, does it mean only Firestorm and Singularity are affected, and the SL Viewer isnt? If so, much as I hate it, I might download because SL is unusable at the moment

 

All viewers are affected, I believe. Wait, a friend posted to a sailing group that the the Cool VL Viewer "has cured that problem almost completely" (quoting her.)

http://sldev.free.fr/

According to my friend, you must ignore any warnings when installing, if you are willing to try it.

I don't think that viewer will make any difference because the issue comes and goes. I keep using Firestorm and I can tell you that I wasn't disconnected yesterday all day nor today so far.

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1 hour ago, sylvie Gossamer said:

I am not sure I understand the bug report, does it mean only Firestorm and Singularity are affected, and the SL Viewer isnt? If so, much as I hate it, I might download because SL is unusable at the moment

The bug affects all viewers because it is an SL/server issue, not a viewer issue.   There is a potential fix that has been rolled out to a few regions.  That fix will roll to all regions with next Tuesday's region updates.

The comment about Singularity is that that particular viewer does actually have an additional separate bug that will require a new version of the Singularity viewer.

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Since the animesh version was released it has been crash hell. Crash on start up.  Crash on TP.  Crash randomly.  Crash anywhere laggy...  I ended up downgrading to an earlier version of the firestorm and the problem has decreased, but not left completely.  I didn't really have  an option.  Firestorm crashed every five minutes or so in the animesh version.  It still crashes more often than it did before the latest 'upgrade'.

 

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Questions:

  • What do you mean by "crash"? Viewer program actually crashed completely, or you got some message to log out, or what?
  • Is this happening on teleports and region crossings only, or while within a region.

Comments:

  • It could be a hardware problem with your computer. A good test is to run the Unreal Engine 4 benchmark, "The Valley". This is a demo of what Unreal Engine can do, and it makes the graphics card, CPU, and memory all work hard. Hard enough that you'll see the GPU and CPU temperatures rise. It shows a very nice large wooded valley you can explore. There's no gameplay, although you can explore the valley if you want. Otherwise it just shows you a tour. Run that for half an hour. If it doesn't crash, your machine is in good enough shape to run Second Life. If it crashes, something is broken.

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Posted (edited)

it only began when i loaded up the animesh version of firestorm.  It stopped when I went back to the pre animesh version. So... NO, it isn't a problem with MY computer... and all my friends are having the same problem, all of a sudden... so it's NOT us.  And not just firestorm.

Edited by DeepBlueJoy
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Sorry to burst your bubble there DeepBlue but until very recently, I've not had a problem with "crashes" or disconnects on the Animesh enabled client. Why yes, Firestorm. And on Linux no less.

This is since the February release of the full Animesh capable client - I do not touch beta clients unless I have no other choice.

The most recent issues with Teleports and such have only cropped up in the last week or two - for most anyway - and those issues are on the server end. So no, you cannot rule out your own machine, deal with it.

Why users are oh so quick to blame Linden Lab is ... Well it isn't a mystery but seriously folks, just because you and those you know are having issues ...

Point blank: If it isn't widespread (meaning affecting the majority of the Grid or user base) then guess what?It's not on LL's end. It could be between LL and you (if network related) or more likely your machine itself (for most other issues and quite frankly more likely mot of the time).

That's simply how it is, like it or not. Don't go blaming the developer (goes for more than LL) for things that could very well be beyond their control.

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There is a potential fix for the teleport disconnects that was rolled to all 3 RC servers on Wednesday - BlueSteel, Magnum & LeTigre.
Is anyone still able to reproduce the teleport disconnects when TPing between two RC regions?
If all goes well with this potential fix, I expect it will be rolled to the main channel regions next Tuesday.

NOTE!
If you are a Singularity viewer user, there is another bug affecting Singularity that is causing a disconnect ~ every 15 minutes &/or teleport disconnects.
This is a separate bug with a different cause to the one filed at BUG-226577 - TPs (Teleports) causing Grid Disconnects and grey screen QUITS
Singularity have a proposed fix for this Singularity specific bug in their latest viewer build that can be downloaded here: https://virtual-nexus.xyz/down/
As far as I'm aware this Singularity fix will not fix the main TP disconnect bug that's affecting all viewers though.

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I understand some of the Jira that was created for this issue. What amazes me is no basic logic used to work this problem out. Instead people send messages to the Jira trying to replicate the problem or people write and blame peoples systems.! Just because YOU haven't had the issue doesn't mean it isn't happening! Seriously..it IS a problem. Now lets look back at when this appeared as a problem or at least started to creep across the grid . Until the roll out of Animesh and this thing called EEP there where few messages about "crashes" or "disconnects" reported. Also I notice that when one crashes or gets disconnected ones avatar "reverts" back to what one was wearing prior to this or apparel disappears. Could this be something to do with inventory moving within the viewer? Inventory is stored on server and that is a HUGE amount and getting bigger all the time. So what has happened in the last couple months that started this? It happens only when one TP's. I have not looked at whether it happens more often when changing servers..ie: Second life main to Bluesteel..or LeTigre to Magnum etc. Sadly it seems we are reverting backwards not forward in the grid. I know we get spoiled from the days when crossing a sim one would "crash"or "disconnect" but it does seem things are introduced into the Grid that really are not tested well before. Before Animesh was introduced I saw some articles about whether it was really a good thing and what load it would put on the Grid. Why it was needed and what it really served as a purpose in SL. Then out of now where suddenly we NEED stars and improvement in the sky? What is EEP? Why?? do people really look at that sky that much and one needs a fairly good system to appreciate it anyway.  Ok...so lets borrow some engineers from Sansar and please get this issue resolved we know it can be done because it was FINE for years.

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14 minutes ago, Whirly Fizzle said:

There is a potential fix for the teleport disconnects that was rolled to all 3 RC servers on Wednesday - BlueSteel, Magnum & LeTigre.
Is anyone still able to reproduce the teleport disconnects when TPing between two RC regions?
If all goes well with this potential fix, I expect it will be rolled to the main channel regions next Tuesday.

NOTE!
If you are a Singularity viewer user, there is another bug affecting Singularity that is causing a disconnect ~ every 15 minutes &/or teleport disconnects.
This is a separate bug with a different cause to the one filed at BUG-226577 - TPs (Teleports) causing Grid Disconnects and grey screen QUITS
Singularity have a proposed fix for this Singularity specific bug in their latest viewer build that can be downloaded here: https://virtual-nexus.xyz/down/
As far as I'm aware this Singularity fix will not fix the main TP disconnect bug that's affecting all viewers though.

We shall see Whirly. As of yesterday I still "crashed" or "disconnected" however we want to call it. There is an issue and it ONLY happens when tries to TP. Seems it should be easy to understand since tping has been around long time and worked fine (most of the time) until a few months ago.

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1 hour ago, Wallace Wirefly said:

I understand some of the Jira that was created for this issue. What amazes me is no basic logic used to work this problem out. Instead people send messages to the Jira trying to replicate the problem or people write and blame peoples systems.! Just because YOU haven't had the issue doesn't mean it isn't happening!

But if somebody isn't having that happen then it means it isn't happening for everyone.

Which is why people need to send messages to the JIRA to replicate the problem.

And why people's systems need to be looked at.

That's just basic logic.

 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Wallace Wirefly said:

There is an issue and it ONLY happens when tries to TP. Seems it should be easy to understand since tping has been around long time and worked fine (most of the time) until a few months ago.

The problem is that it does not happen to every avatar and it does not happen on every TP and not even the same TPs for a given avatar.  For me, it is more like roughly every 2 out of 5 TPs - and then after I disconnect and log back in, I can do the exact same TP that caused me a problem.  When something isn't consistent and easily reproducible, it can be very difficult to debug.

I will agree with folks that it is frustrating as hell to those of use experiencing it, but I imagine is is equally frustrating to those trying to figure it out and fix it.

Edited by LittleMe Jewell
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Well, I only have about 200 friends, so it is entirely possible that it's NOT a representative sample.  In fact, I'm certain of it.  :-) HOWEVER...  when I start getting many comments from friends and acquaintances directly after an upgrade and many of us are suddenly having problems using only ONE service (second life) -- and it doesn't seem to matter whether we're using singularity, the SL viewer or Firestorm, it seems to SUGGEST STRONGLY that the problem just might not be with us or our computers* (heavy sarcasm). 

Patterns do matter.  The pattern over the last several weeks is that the usability of SL has become very iffy for me and many of my friends and acquaintances.

Here's what happened to me... only me of course, so stipulated for the lawyers here... Yes, it's an anecdote, so it's not probative, but it is evidentiary.

I installed the new animesh version 6.2XX of the firestorm viewer and suddenly had repeated crashes in all kinds of situations, sometimes crashing several times within a few minutes.  There were times I simply gave up on trying to get on or stay on.  I had NONE of these problems with the pre animesh beta.  The animesh beta was problematical, but not as terrible as the final version.  Then the crashing on tp began to intensify - and I'm not sure that's related to the upgrade, but everything was worse with the upgrade, so it's hard to tell why.  For some of my friends, I have started passing them a landmark before/instead sending them a TP offer... so they can log in at the location after they crash during TP.

After about a week of this repeated crashing, I got thoroughly fed up.  I downgraded to the last non animesh version of Firestorm. 

The repeated crash problem has virtually vanished. 

Although I do crash occasionally, and it tends to happen more often on TP, the downgrade has reversed the repeatocrash problem. 

Now, I don't know about anyone else, but when I do something and immediately a problem develops, and then i undo the action and the problem immediately goes away, I think there's probably could be a connection.

Further, I have friends who use the SL viewer and who have also downgraded/changed versions and also found their problems have diminished.  So it isn't just me. 

I seriously doubt my machine has fixed it self at the same time that i downgraded AND my friend's machines have  fixed themselves since they downgraded...

Your mileage may vary.  I may be newish to SL (3+ years) but I'm not new to the concept of troubleshooting or evidence based reasoning.  Just because some of you aren't having problems doesn't mean that a  lot of people are not. 

Anyway... It's my assessment that there's something wrong with the way SL is running right now... either Linden has created a problem for many, many people, or singularity, firestorm and the linden's own viewer have all had RANDOM catastrophic failure at the same time.  It may not affect everyone, but blaming US when suddenly SL becomes unusable when we haven't changed anything suggests that maybe their code isn't as well thought out as it could be.

NOTE: I have had troubles with SL that originated on my computer btw.  Therefore, I do tend to check. It's like the help desks always suggest.  1) Is it plugged in.  2) Is it turned on. 3) rtfm. 4) Are you using it right? So, yes, check your own system before you go looking for someone to blame, is a sound idea... but when 9/10 people I talk to have the same problems, originating at the same time, and after the same actions.... AND i haven't found myself having any problems on my computer...  well, then I think it's time to start asking the creator of the universe to take a look.

_____

*Well... I suppose it's possible that the game is being designed and customized only for people at the screaming edge of connectivity and resources.  Most of us do not fit those parameters, though many of us have made considerable investments.

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, animats said:

Questions:

  • What do you mean by "crash"? Viewer program actually crashed completely, or you got some message to log out, or what?
  • Is this happening on teleports and region crossings only, or while within a region.

Comments:

  • It could be a hardware problem with your computer. A good test is to run the Unreal Engine 4 benchmark, "The Valley". This is a demo of what Unreal Engine can do, and it makes the graphics card, CPU, and memory all work hard. Hard enough that you'll see the GPU and CPU temperatures rise. It shows a very nice large wooded valley you can explore. There's no gameplay, although you can explore the valley if you want. Otherwise it just shows you a tour. Run that for half an hour. If it doesn't crash, your machine is in good enough shape to run Second Life. If it crashes, something is broken.

In other words, suddenly, my machine isn't good enough to do what it has always done?  It ran fine before and it runs fine for all the other functions. I've been known to run up to three avatars at a time at ultra quality... plus in excess of 400 tabs on my browser, plus outlook, plus various other programs... all without crashing.  Now, running one suddenly results in crashing repeatedly, and TPing has become iffy... and my connection is the same, my computer is the same and behaving the same for everything else... and I am NOT the only person suddenly experiencing this change. 

Oh, and my computer isn't chugging hard, or overheating... SL just inexplicably hangs when I TP, and with the animesh client, it crashed early and often especially at logins or tps and I'm seeing naked people again, something I haven't seen since i got rid of DSL.

EDIT: I'm taking your challenge btw...  always good to make sure there's nothing going on with my machine i don't want to be going on, even though I'm 99% certain there isn't, it seems like a useful tool to have.

 

Edited by DeepBlueJoy

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There is a problem.  Everyone is agreed on this (even Linden Lab).  However something is far from clear and that is who is "crashing" and who is being "disconnected".

Some clarity is needed here.  If your viewer crashes, more often than not you'll see SL freeze, followed by "Programme not responding" or similar message and you manually quit the programme/viewer.  You may find that the viewer suddenly closes and you "crash to desktop".  There are other variants.

But they are one thing and most likely are related to your connection or your machine.

The other thing and this is what we are seeing FAR more of than usual, are disconnects, where your viewer shows a grey-scale picture and you are presented with the option to either read IMs or Quit.  That is something that "can" imply connection issues, but far more often indicates a failure of the SL server-side data flow.

In my case the issue is a sudden and large rise in the incidence of the latter and it would help to clarify some of the above complaints if posters could be a little clearer as to whether they are experiencing "crashes" or "disconnects". 

That the advent of animesh and EEP are implicated in this seem a no-brainer, but just HOW is not yet clear.

As an aside, why on earth do we need EEP?

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2 minutes ago, Aishagain said:

There is a problem.  Everyone is agreed on this (even Linden Lab).  However something is far from clear and that is who is "crashing" and who is being "disconnected".

Some clarity is needed here.  If your viewer crashes, more often than not you'll see SL freeze, followed by "Programme not responding" or similar message and you manually quit the programme/viewer.  You may find that the viewer suddenly closes and you "crash to desktop".  There are other variants.

But they are one thing and most likely are related to your connection or your machine.

The other thing and this is what we are seeing FAR more of than usual, are disconnects, where your viewer shows a grey-scale picture and you are presented with the option to either read IMs or Quit.  That is something that "can" imply connection issues, but far more often indicates a failure of the SL server-side data flow.

In my case the issue is a sudden and large rise in the incidence of the latter and it would help to clarify some of the above complaints if posters could be a little clearer as to whether they are experiencing "crashes" or "disconnects". 

That the advent of animesh and EEP are implicated in this seem a no-brainer, but just HOW is not yet clear.

As an aside, why on earth do we need EEP?

Well, just for the record, it's the option to read messages with a greyed out screen that I get the most... but I also have instances when the screen goes white and I have to manually shut it down as well as times when the program simply vanishes... it shuts down so very completely, it's no longer running.

I've also been having fun experiences with suddenly missing inventory and my friends more so than me seem to end up naked.  Mostly, i just have hair or a foot missing...  If I didn't have social reasons to be in SL, I probably would stop using it.  I didn't sign up with SL for a trouble shooting project.  I have the house that I'm rebuilding and the unfinished books that I'm writing for that.  I come here for absence of drama and problems to solve...

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