What's up with sim crossings?

[Jo Clip]

[Aishagain]

Well, let's hope it isn't something fundamental in the EEP code, 'cos it's coming back to the RC's on Wednesday, "with regressions fixed".  I do hope this doesn't cause the Band-aid to fall off.

[Qie Niangao]

56 minutes ago, Aishagain said:

Well, let's hope it isn't something fundamental in the EEP code, 'cos it's coming back to the RC's on Wednesday, "with regressions fixed".  I do hope this doesn't cause the Band-aid to fall off.

Interesting. The release notes say:

Quote

• Fixed EEP Regressions

"Regressions" in the EEP code, or elsewhere caused by the EEP code? Or do they even really mean "regressions"?

I wonder how much detail they'll give at the server user group tomorrow. Could be worth the hour.

[jaja2939]

5 hours ago, Jo Clip said:

this could be the problem with your internet connection if you use the wifi or maybe the Linden found the region crossing disconnect incident in specific region.

[Whirly Fizzle]

5 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

Interesting. The release notes say:

"Regressions" in the EEP code, or elsewhere caused by the EEP code? Or do they even really mean "regressions"?

I wonder how much detail they'll give at the server user group tomorrow. Could be worth the hour.

Probably a fix for this: BUG-226815 - [EEP] Since the grid was rolled to 19.04.15.526263 yesterday, region windlight is broken for all legacy viewers - settings reset on Apply.

[animats]

I just tried a long trip in a helicopter. Belessaria to northern Heterocera and back. Two hours, 286 region crossings, one failure. Shot down three times by no-delay security orbs.

No failures on motorcycles for several days now.

Just went around Robin Loop (13 sim crossings) twice with a rider on the back of my bike. No problems.

Looking encouraging.

[MBeatrix]

2 hours ago, animats said:

I just tried a long trip in a helicopter. Belessaria to northern Heterocera and back. Two hours, 286 region crossings, one failure. Shot down three times by no-delay security orbs.

No failures on motorcycles for several days now.

Just went around Robin Loop (13 sim crossings) twice with a rider on the back of my bike. No problems.

Looking encouraging.

Like I wrote several times, it comes and goes without any apparent fix. Too many variables... Vehicles/avatars traffic, networks, regions running low on resources, you vehicle and your own connection, your avatar's complexity and scripts, and who knows what else.

Edited April 30, 2019 by MBeatrix

[jaja2939]

I'm Currently Using The Fast Fibre Optic 500 mbps in Thailand provided by 3BB and tp disconnect problem are on minimum compared with wifi connection.

[Rachel1206]

9 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

Interesting. The release notes say:

"Regressions" in the EEP code, or elsewhere caused by the EEP code? Or do they even really mean "regressions"?

I wonder how much detail they'll give at the server user group tomorrow. Could be worth the hour.

The book above as seen on ground in The Linden Village  would explain the fluctuations and unpredictable behavior in regard to sim/region crossings and TP, EEP side effects!

More serious: I suspect some latency server side could be the reason behind all the troubles, we experience. And higher ping times to the simulation servers make the troubles worse. As European I typical have 172-220 ms ping time on fiber to Tuscon, AZ ( 16 ms to my IP), compared to US friends, who tell my their ping time is like 90 ms or less and experience less troubles with crossings.

But I had no problems normally before and drove, sailed mainland - clocked 1,000+ miles on mainland in vehicles even with high LI and heavy scripts loads and did for example just for fun Bay City with 160+ MPH.

I really hope, they will be able to iron out what is causing the problems, we have - all though sim/region crossings got better, we are still far from, how it was earlier *sigh*. At least LL acknowledge the problem and takes it serious.

 

 

Edited April 30, 2019 by Rachel1206

[MBeatrix]

2 hours ago, Rachel1206 said:

The book above as seen on ground in The Linden Village  would explain the fluctuations and unpredictable behavior in regard to sim/region crossings and TP, EEP side effects!

More serious: I suspect some latency server side could be the reason behind all the troubles, we experience. And higher ping times to the simulation servers make the troubles worse. As European I typical have 172-220 ms ping time on fiber to Tuscon, AZ ( 16 ms to my IP), compared to US friends, who tell my their ping time is like 90 ms or less and experience less troubles with crossings.

But I had no problems normally before and drove, sailed mainland - clocked 1,000+ miles on mainland in vehicles even with high LI and heavy scripts loads and did for example just for fun Bay City with 160+ MPH.

I really hope, they will be able to iron out what is causing the problems, we have - all though sim/region crossings got better, we are still far from, how it was earlier *sigh*. At least LL acknowledge the problem and takes it serious.

It's more or less obvious that something is not right with SL. Or should I say several things? But there is something most people seem to forget: between our computer and LL's servers there are several networks, networks that neither our ISP's nor LL have any control over, and networks may have fluctuations, so I think that is a major factor to take into account. Does it explain current issues? No, but it adds to them, and sometimes that may even be the sole responsible for issues that some users experience while some others don't.

[EDIT]  The ping to my ISP is never more than 5 ms, while to Tucson AZ (Login Inc.) is usually around 160 ms, but to SL it's never less than 178 ms, and usually around 185 ms (at least the times I've checked it.)

Edited April 30, 2019 by MBeatrix
adding more info & corrections

[JoyofRLC Acker]

Yesterday and Friday Id say that sailing in Blake was a lot better, if not perfect.   However there is one thing that I think has changed on sim crossings.  (I have the viewer prediction / extrapolation turned off).    Previously if you froze on the border for more than say a couple of seconds, your vehicle would jump forward once visible motion resumed.  In other words you would would be roughly where you would have been without any extended freeze.   Now the freeze is consistently longer - 6 - 10 seconds Id say (vs 2 - 8 )  and the vehicle does NOT jump forward to where it should have been.  In other words the vehicle "really" stops.

Is anyone else observing this sort of thing?

[Hatsya]

12 minutes ago, JoyofRLC Acker said:

Yesterday and Friday Id say that sailing in Blake was a lot better, if not perfect.   However there is one thing that I think has changed on sim crossings.  (I have the viewer prediction / extrapolation turned off).    Previously if you froze on the border for more than say a couple of seconds, your vehicle would jump forward once visible motion resumed.  In other words you would would be roughly where you would have been without any extended freeze.   Now the freeze is consistently longer - 6 - 10 seconds Id say (vs 2 - 8 )  and the vehicle does NOT jump forward to where it should have been.  In other words the vehicle "really" stops.

Is anyone else observing this sort of thing? 

Yes, I have noticed this too. This seems to be the new way region crossings work, but, when it is a fast region crossing, it works really well.

 

[MBeatrix]

1 hour ago, JoyofRLC Acker said:

Yesterday and Friday Id say that sailing in Blake was a lot better, if not perfect.   However there is one thing that I think has changed on sim crossings.  (I have the viewer prediction / extrapolation turned off).    Previously if you froze on the border for more than say a couple of seconds, your vehicle would jump forward once visible motion resumed.  In other words you would would be roughly where you would have been without any extended freeze.   Now the freeze is consistently longer - 6 - 10 seconds Id say (vs 2 - 8 )  and the vehicle does NOT jump forward to where it should have been.  In other words the vehicle "really" stops.

Is anyone else observing this sort of thing?

Nope. The boat hits the border, travels a few meters ahead into the new sim and then there is a slight jump back to where the sim begins, as usual. OK, it's smoother than many times is, at most crossings, but I don't see anything new. If you keep an eye on the coordinates, you'll see that happening... in numbers, too. 😉

Edited April 30, 2019 by MBeatrix

[Jo Clip]

[Fluf Fredriksson]

I sorta hoped this topic was dead.

"Is it just me or?" ...

Since LL rolled EEP back out to a few of the server channels .. (Hello Black Stars!).. Sim crossings have got more difficult again.

No disconnects, but since the timeout is much longer now, you're stuck way up in the air for much.. much.. MUCH.. longer. Wave goodbye to whatever vehicle you were on, it's 5 sims+ away by the time you regain control.

Yes, those were the golden times. That brief window you had between "We fixed the disconnects!" and "Here's EEP again!".

[Jo Clip]

Note : on the pic on minimap, some region is showing red. Happens almost everytime I crash now. That was not happening before the 'fix'.

Note 2 : I have now that bug where you can't see the opposite sim at a given cross. Dunno if I say it well please excuse my poor english.

[Jo Clip]

To illustrate note 2 :

[MBeatrix]

14 hours ago, Fluf Fredriksson said:

I sorta hoped this topic was dead.

"Is it just me or?" ...

Since LL rolled EEP back out to a few of the server channels .. (Hello Black Stars!).. Sim crossings have got more difficult again.

No disconnects, but since the timeout is much longer now, you're stuck way up in the air for much.. much.. MUCH.. longer. Wave goodbye to whatever vehicle you were on, it's 5 sims+ away by the time you regain control.

Yes, those were the golden times. That brief window you had between "We fixed the disconnects!" and "Here's EEP again!".

If only it were just that I'd be a happy sailor. Crossings got noticeably worse since the last time I sailed yesterday, and yes, I just had a crash while crossing from Blake Sea - Hawser to Blake Sea - Jones Locker... I was sent flying high "thru several sims" till I was logged out.

[animats]

11 hours ago, MBeatrix said:

I sorta hoped this topic was dead.

Me too. But apparently not.

What I got out of Server User Group meeting last Tuesday is that the developers change things and it comes and goes, but they don't know why. Simon Linden pretty much admitted this.

Keep the pressure on. It's not fixed until it doesn't happen at all, short of a sim crashing, the viewer crashing, or loss of communications.

[JoyofRLC Acker]

I think a definition of "fix" also has to include clear description, with evidence or code analysis, of the root cause and the changes made to resolve it.

I'm reminded of the first lectures I attended on structured programming (ok, Im dating myself) and the comment that most "testing" can only prove that a program is incorrect, and can never prove that it is correct.

They have built something beyond their comprehension.

My suspicion is that they have tinkered with the 'freeze' at sim borders.  For me its def a few seconds longer, but also its now a genuine freeze with motion actually stopped, ie the boats position at the end of the freeze is right where it was on the border, not skipped ahead into the next sim.

Friday & Monday I had more or less clear sailing.  Wednesday & Thursday I was getting logged out again.  In fairness one session was where I was inadvertently racing with a DD of about 850m (I did wonder why the fan was on but didnt make the correct deduction alas).

So, Id say better thanks to the band-aid, whatever it is exactly, but def NOT fixed.

[MBeatrix]

8 hours ago, animats said:

[...]
What I got out of Server User Group meeting last Tuesday is that the developers change things and it comes and goes, but they don't know why. Simon Linden pretty much admitted this.
[...]

It is worrying when a Linden says something I've known for years by mere observation... Yes, it is cyclic, "it comes and goes."
And even more worrying when they admit that they don't know why, as it's something that has been happening at the very least since I started sailing, over 6 years ago.

[Jo Clip]

Enjoy...

 

[Theresa Tennyson]

8 hours ago, Jo Clip said:

Enjoy...

 

So, have you noticed the crowd that's saying, "Yes, I'm seeing that too - it's a problem for everyone"?

No?

That's because it apparently doesn't exist.

You're convincing us that you've got a bad communications setup, but that's about all.

 

[JoyofRLC Acker]

Theresa, I sort of follow where you are coming from, except that ... I think a lot of people have given up complaining as they consider it normal service.   I know that we certainly don't file tickets every time some one falls off a boat.  If we did, they'd have to buy new servers to manage the JIRA queues!   We tend to file tickets or JIRA bug for sims that are obviously broken, or maybe if we think things are especially bad, eg a couple of months ago.

There's no doubt that individual set up (location, ISP, W/LAN, computer, SL settings) all play a part.  

I'm certainly of the view that things are better (as of Friday, I haven't been in-world over the weekend) but certainly not fixed, which I would take to be as things were two months ago.  Specifically prior to that, getting logged out was, for me a rare event.  Falling off the boat, maybe once every third or fourth race.  Then during the bad spell it was Logout about every 10 - 30 sims of sailing, or just standing on my dock editing scripts whatever.  Now its about 50% of races for logout, and at least once per race for falling off so not as good as it used to be.  

NO changes in my ISP (Broadband 11ms ping and 50+Mbps local; variable to Pgoenix of course) or network.  A few weeks before the trouble started I upgraded PC (Dell 8930 w 16 GB, NV GTX 1060).   So the any adverse changes from say 3 months (ignoring the peak disconnect time period) ago are down to SL.   Sorry for so many words but that is what I mean when I say things aren't fixed (but are better than during the peak recent problem).

[Qie Niangao]

I just wish they'd tell us what they actually did.

If they're trying to fix a race condition by tweaking timing constants, it's doomed.