"Fake child" (avatars) and adult lands

[Bebe Bunny]

Good day!

There is a topic going on in a SL group in facebook where a guy who controls a child avatar says he can be wherever he wants to be that this is not against TOS. Though I've read several times that child avatars (even if controlled by an adult) cannot be in any way near adult related content.

Can someone enlighten me, please? I've looked into the TOS and I either lost something or didn't look carefully enough because the only mention to children there that I seen were talking about actual minors in real life.

It all started over a club announcement about looking for DJs and such and that they didn't allow child avatars (as all adult places I know do).

[BilliJo Aldrin]

Child avatars operated by someone over 18 in RL can go to any sim regardless of maturity rating. However they cannot place themselves in close proximity to adult situations or adult furniture/animations.

It is the responsibility of the adult piloting the child avatar to remove themselves from any adult situation.

Since (in some people's opinion) child avatars are generally on adult sims to cause trouble, most operators of adult properties just make it easier for everyone by simply not allowing child avatars, and banning them on sight.

 

Edited March 24, 2019 by BilliJo Aldrin
changed a word

[Claireschen Hesten]

Maybe a Linden can clarify but as i understand it child Av's are allowed on adult rated land but they can't use or be in the vicinity of items being used with adult animations in or be involved in adult content

[Coffee Pancake]

Child avatars can be on A rated land, but it's a risky proposition as A rated land is also the only land upon which commercialized adulating activities & accessories may be used publicly or sold.

If you can abuse report a child avatar and get some adulting adults or related adulting paraphernalia in the screenshot, then you absolutely should.

The child avatar community in SL avoid such places like the plague.

 

To add. The wiki is very clear.

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Clarification_of_policy_disallowing_ageplay

Edited March 24, 2019 by CoffeeDujour
+wiki link.

[Magnek Fang]

Another problem is some people have a bad habit of not knowing what is and isn't a child avatar these days. I've heard many complaints from people with avatars in the big-eyes-small-mouth anime style about being mistaken for child avatars. This is why I don't like to use the default head with the kemono.

[LittleMe Jewell]

In addition to the Wiki info, here is what the SL TOS specifically says about age requirements to access areas of SL:

 

So it is not against TOS for a child avatar to be present on any specific region.  However, as noted, they have to be very careful about what sort of activities is going on around them because it is against the TOS for them to not only engage in any sexual activity but to even be in the presence of sexual activity.

[brodiak90]

I have a nine-year-old boy Tweenster avatar, and as other posters have said, child avatars are permitted in all areas of SL so long as the player behind the keyboard is eighteen years old or older. However, I feel the need to clear up what is meant by adult activities as some people become confused. It means sex or furniture with sexual animations. Not blood, not violence, not profanity, not gambling or drugs etc.   

The RP sim Crack Den is a great example of this. They allow child/teen avatars on their Adult Rated sim but not in their red zone where there is sex and nudity. 

It gets frustrating when people flat out ban child avatars when they don't understand the TOS. Sure, if you understand the TOS and still want to keep kids away, then that's your purogative as a sim owner - your land your rules - but it's the people that are misinformed or confused that frustrate me. 

 

[Marianne Little]

1 hour ago, brodiak90 said:

I have a nine-year-old boy Tweenster avatar, and as other posters have said, child avatars are permitted in all areas of SL so long as the player behind the keyboard is eighteen years old or older. However, I feel the need to clear up what is meant by adult activities as some people become confused. It means sex or furniture with sexual animations. Not blood, not violence, not profanity, not gambling or drugs etc.   

The RP sim Crack Den is a great example of this. They allow child/teen avatars on their Adult Rated sim but not in their red zone where there is sex and nudity. 

It gets frustrating when people flat out ban child avatars when they don't understand the TOS. Sure, if you understand the TOS and still want to keep kids away, then that's your purogative as a sim owner - your land your rules - but it's the people that are misinformed or confused that frustrate me. 

 

My thoughts on this: It is great that the owner of Crack Den does this.

It is however, not something I would bother with, if I wanted to make a public place with adult content.

And how would I keep kid avatars out of these zones, if I made some? I do not know how Crack Den is solving this, if a kid avatar comes there and don't care about the rules, saying "I can go wherever I want". What happens if no moderators are there and can kick the obnoxious avatar out?

To accommodate kids in adult places would be too much work, and what would I get out of it? Can child avatars benefit an adult place at all, unless it is a really special role they have, as the roleplay mentioned here.

I think the idea that land owners "do not understand the TOS" is incorrect, it is easier for them to have a flat ban.

If I had a moderate place, I would have only safe furniture out there all over. No need to separate content in different zones, child avatars would be ok to have there. That would not be extra work.

[brodiak90]

37 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:

I think the idea that land owners "do not understand the TOS" is incorrect, it is easier for them to have a flat ban.

 

Hence the part where I say it's their land their rules. Please re-read my post. I don't have a problem with people who understand the TOS and have made that informed decision. 

[Marianne Little]

2 hours ago, brodiak90 said:

Hence the part where I say it's their land their rules. Please re-read my post. I don't have a problem with people who understand the TOS and have made that informed decision. 

I understood your post. My opinion is that the number of land owners who don't understand the TOS, is much smaller than you think.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

16 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:

I understood your post. My opinion is that the number of land owners who don't understand the TOS, is much smaller than you think.

I dunno about that... there's an incredible number of land owners that don't understand that non-sexual nudity is allowed on moderate sims.

Or... maybe they just don't have the nerve to say they don't want nudity and choose to hide behind the TOS instead.

Gees we'd love if you were naked here, but we are a moderate sim and nudity isn't allowed according to the TOS.

 

Edited March 24, 2019 by BilliJo Aldrin
added words

[Coffee Pancake]

Over all the years we ran our own region, the only child avatars who showed up indignant that they had a right to go where they liked, also tended to be the ones who would try and engage in ban-able naughty. Almost every time.

In the end we just drew a line and removed any who showed up on sight. Was not worth the risk to ourselves or our regions visitors & renters. (This was at a time when a couple of region owners we knew had been banned due to actions committed on their land by a child avatar 3rd party, they were all reinstated, but it took months and the bill still had to be paid in the interim).

More than once we had people rent land and then attempt to claim that it gave them the right to do whatever they liked, one even rented child avatar bots under the misconception that if it wasn't a real person it was all ok. The advice from LL was always 'if in doubt, abuse report and nuke from orbit'.

Region owners read the TOS very carefully as there is a not insignificant amount of money involved with setup and monthly fees.

[Shudo]

3 hours ago, Marianne Little said:

If I had a moderate place, I would have only safe furniture out there all over.

Confusing.

By TOS, moderate public land can't have sex stuff out. So yes, if you had a moderate place you MUST only have safe furniture out or risk an AR.

[Solar Legion]

5 minutes ago, Shudo said:

Confusing.

By TOS, moderate public land can't have sex stuff out. So yes, if you had a moderate place you MUST only have safe furniture out or risk an AR.

Out in public? Yeah, not exactly a good idea. Inside your home? That's not against the ToS or the CS.

You also cannot run/advertise an Adult club on Moderate land.

Not so confusing.

The part that some seem to find confusing? What is/is not classified as "public" land.

[Coffee Pancake]

4 hours ago, Shudo said:

By TOS, moderate public land can't have sex stuff out. So yes, if you had a moderate place you MUST only have safe furniture out or risk an AR.

For M rated land ..

Private naughty furniture for use by the land owner and 'friends' is fine. The furniture can be anywhere, not necessarily hidden in a home or skybox.

Public naughty furniture for use by everyone is not fine. What defines a public vs private space is a little subjective, but generally having your location listed in search would do it.

Selling naughty of any kind if also not fine.

There was a lot of worried folk back when Zindra was added that they would have to move because they owned a bed (or other contraption) with (frankly terrible) humping animations, LL were very clear that owning such contrivances for private use on M land was perfectly ok.

Edited March 24, 2019 by CoffeeDujour

[Lucia Nightfire]

Everything discussed so far has been broken down in detail at http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Adult_Content_FAQ

[Fionalein]

5 hours ago, Marianne Little said:

And how would I keep kid avatars out of these zones, if I made some? 

Same way you do with achild avatar if your whole region doesn't allow them -- you cannot! If one turns up non the less: ban and report...

 

[Nextio]

Sim owners ban child avatars in adult sims because it's just easier to deal with.  Put yourselves in their shoes, and you'll realize you might have to deal with Linden Lab one day, about the TOS and other legal issues.  It's just too much of a headache to please these child avatars who have a chip on their shoulder, so i support their bans entirely.

A lot of these child avatars just want to cause trouble or prove a point.  It's like, okay, we get it, you're not technically violating the TOS, are you satisfied now?  They need to grow up, ironically speaking.  😎

Edited March 25, 2019 by Nextio

[Shudo]

Come on Solar, Don't be a Phil, it doesn't suit you.

I clearly said public access moderate land, this means clubs and other places that people allow the general public into.

Behind closed doors allows one to place sexual equipment into one's home, mature land aimed for public access doesn't fall into that policy.

[Solar Legion]

14 minutes ago, Shudo said:

Come on Solar, Don't be a Phil, it doesn't suit you.

I clearly said public access moderate land, this means clubs and other places that people allow the general public into.

Behind closed doors allows one to place sexual equipment into one's home, mature land aimed for public access doesn't fall into that policy.

I'm not "being a Phil" here, Shudo.

"Public access" is - outside of clubs or other businesses and even parks or similar - a gray area at best.

A user's home, even one without security, is not "public" or "public access" for example.

Nothing at all confusing there.

Now to be a bit clear as to why I responded to your initial post the way I did: 

Quote

Confusing.

By TOS, moderate public land can't have sex stuff out. So yes, if you had a moderate place you MUST only have safe furniture out or risk an AR.

No mention at all in the post concerning access or even examples given as to your meaning, compounded by the bit in blue.

Say what you mean in the future - if you mean public venues (clubs, parks, malls and such) then actually put that in your post. Do remember that some of us will go by what is actually in front of us, word for word.

[norajulian]

1 hour ago, Nextio said:

A  lot of these child avatars just want to cause trouble or prove a point.  It's like, okay, we get it, you're not technically violating the TOS, are you satisfied now?  They need to grow up, ironically speaking.  😎

Again, though, most of the kid community DOES avoid adult regions regardless. As a very active member of this community, albeit not as a child myself, the troublemakers or the ‘ugly trolls’ are usually the ones who pop in. The biggest issue that arises when the community gets frustrated is when a store that has PG furniture is located on adult land that they aren’t allowed at. This is a very rare occasion, but sometimes happens.

More often than not, the frustration is when the land is MODERATE and bans child avatars out of fear. This extends to clubs, shops, parks, etc. 

All in all, though.. your land, your rules. It is what it is. 

[Ceka Cianci]

13 hours ago, Sylvannas Zulaman said:

Good day!

There is a topic going on in a SL group in facebook where a guy who controls a child avatar says he can be wherever he wants to be that this is not against TOS. Though I've read several times that child avatars (even if controlled by an adult) cannot be in any way near adult related content.

Can someone enlighten me, please? I've looked into the TOS and I either lost something or didn't look carefully enough because the only mention to children there that I seen were talking about actual minors in real life.

It all started over a club announcement about looking for DJs and such and that they didn't allow child avatars (as all adult places I know do).

 

Basically just because a sim is rated Adult,doesn't mean it has a lick of adult content on it..The world doesn't automatically set the rating of the land,the sim owner does..

I used to have my sims set to adult..Not really for any other reason than, just B'cause..

Half the time I didn't have anything down on the ground and just used them more for a sandbox more than anything.. Some set them up like that for certain RP or just to be on the safe side..

Adult rated sims does not always mean there is porn there..

 

[Ceka Cianci]

Sorry for the double post

The forums are acting strange for me tonight..lots of lag..

 

Edited March 25, 2019 by Ceka Cianci

[Fionalein]

In Caspervend easter Hunt 17 I first came into contact with virtual pregancies*, one of the observations I made is that virtual childbirth seems to be adult rated. So one example of porn free adult sims are virtual child clinics...

 

* and now have funny little collection of WTF items like a coffin shaped manger for those vampire babies you might have one day...

Edited March 25, 2019 by Fionalein

[BilliJo Aldrin]

6 hours ago, Solar Legion said:

I'm not "being a Phil" here, Shudo.

"Public access" is - outside of clubs or other businesses and even parks or similar - a gray area at best.

A user's home, even one without security, is not "public" or "public access" for example.

Nothing at all confusing there.

Now to be a bit clear as to why I responded to your initial post the way I did: 

No mention at all in the post concerning access or even examples given as to your meaning, compounded by the bit in blue.

Say what you mean in the future - if you mean public venues (clubs, parks, malls and such) then actually put that in your post. Do remember that some of us will go by what is actually in front of us, word for word.

If your home doesn't have a security orb, ban lines or group only access, it IS considered public or public access. You CANNOT have any adult objects in any place on a M rated sim that is public access, even your own bedroom, if you don't take steps to restrict access.

Edited March 25, 2019 by BilliJo Aldrin
clarified sim rating