Gender Neutral Clothes - A call to creators

[OfDragonFire]

Well, maybe not neutral.

Second Life is a medium for creativity, for diversity, exploration and expression. A wonderful one, at that, where we can be ourselves or someone else entirely - explore things we wouldn't otherwise explore, meet people we wouldn't have otherwise met; it's truly a testament to how far technology has come, creating a whole new world for us to explore. But one thing the Second Life market seem to be in short supply of, is clothes that are rigged for all bodies - regardless of gender; so people with male bodies could wear traditionally feminine clothing and vice versa. 

I know, I know -- not everyone is trans or non-binary, or want to explore different forms of self-expression - but a lot of people do, so where's the harm in accommodating them and targeting a whole new demographic? Throw out the idea that only certain people can wear certain things, and watch more people rock your clothing! People do it for club events, for parties, for Halloween, or even daily! 

I wish more creators did this and I wish more tackled v-tech - people who wear it are in short supply of skins, clothes and everything else. If I had the talent, knowledge or taste, I would do it, but even then - it takes more than one person to make it a thing!

 

So let's make this happen, hm? Let's give people the ability to wear what they want!

[Chic Aeon]

15 minutes ago, OfDragonFire said:

But one thing the Second Life market seem to be in short supply of, is clothes that are rigged for all bodies - regardless of gender; so people with male bodies could wear traditionally feminine clothing and vice versa. 

In the olden days this was much easier -- and there were more choices, but to be fair  --- it takes a TON of time to rig garments for different bodies and in some cases retopology would also be needed (male bodies and female bodies are different no matter how "gender neutral" they try to be.  

I really love the look and I miss seeing the diversity, but I can't imagine  many creators have the time and energy to accomplish what you suggest --- even if we overlook the monetary side of the process.

A few folks manage to be very creative with what they CAN get these days and I applaud them for that!

 

[Tazzie Tuque]

1 hour ago, Chic Aeon said:

In the olden days this was much easier -- and there were more choices, but to be fair  --- it takes a TON of time to rig garments for different bodies and in some cases retopology would also be needed (male bodies and female bodies are different no matter how "gender neutral" they try to be.  

I really love the look and I miss seeing the diversity, but I can't imagine  many creators have the time and energy to accomplish what you suggest --- even if we overlook the monetary side of the process.

In terms of mesh,  that would be one huge undertaking to say the least .. but when BOM gets here I would be happy to do some non mesh outfits that could be worn by anyone at all.  .

[OfDragonFire]

8 minutes ago, Tazzie Tuque said:

In terms of mesh,  that would be one huge undertaking to say the least .. but when BOM gets here I would be happy to do some non mesh outfits that could be worn by anyone at all.  .

I was under the illusion that rigging was easier, for some reason. Like, you can do it in minutes, once you have the template (body) but then again, I don't know much in terms of building. I get daunted every time I open blender to try learning the basics. 

I mean, it would be a start if people just made some traditionally feminine outfits for male bodies. Think Violetility's Genderpunk! line. 

Or even simply including V-tech occasionally, regardless of the gender demographic you're targeting. I know we are starved for content! And everything is too expensive, haha.

Can I channel my noobiness and ask what 'bake on mesh' would be? is it close to appliers?

[Tazzie Tuque]

Yes Bakes On Mesh, is like the old system for classic avatars, with layers you just put on.. only hopefully it will replace the need for all those appliers, which also take a huge amount of time to make for all the different bodies out there and some you can't because the creator of the mesh body doesn't have a kit to allow for making appliers... but ideally when BOM gets here it will be able to go on any mesh body,  probably need a hud of some sort but certainly better than making a load of appliers. 

[Bitsy Buccaneer]

13 hours ago, OfDragonFire said:

But one thing the Second Life market seem to be in short supply of, is clothes that are rigged for all bodies - regardless of gender; so people with male bodies could wear traditionally feminine clothing and vice versa.

The right question to ask is why mesh clothing is rarely rigged for all bodies. Why do only three of the mesh body brands available for women-women have wide support? Why are fewer and fewer creators making things for system avs? If you're interested in those answers, search the forums. It's been discussed plenty elsewhere. Basically it involves the low returns for time spent and the time it takes to do the work to support all of the different bodies, including system.

The result of this trend is the reduction of diversity of every sort in SL. It is just harder to find non-mainstream clothing. And the mainstream in SL has become very hypersexualised for women's clothing. Our choices are basically suburban soccer mom or show us your boobs. If you want anything else, choices are far more limited, even for women-women.

Does V-Tech not sell moddable mesh clothing for its body? I don't know if any of the big full perm mesh clothing creators would consider supporting V-Tech. Asking them would probably make more sense than dropping a noble statement in the forums. Good luck.

[OfDragonFire]

14 hours ago, Tazzie Tuque said:

Yes Bakes On Mesh, is like the old system for classic avatars, with layers you just put on.. only hopefully it will replace the need for all those appliers, which also take a huge amount of time to make for all the different bodies out there and some you can't because the creator of the mesh body doesn't have a kit to allow for making appliers... but ideally when BOM gets here it will be able to go on any mesh body,  probably need a hud of some sort but certainly better than making a load of appliers. 

 

I've spent few hours last night researching it, watched the Strawberry Singh and Cathy Foil videos and scrolled through the forums. I can't say I fully understand, because I am someone who learns better from doing rather than simply hearing or listening, and my ADHD makes it so I am bound to have missed a point I am confused on - like how this will apply to mesh clothes, for instance, but it seems revolutionary.

I know omega released a hud for people to test it on the beta browser, since it's not out yet, and my Lelutka head has a button for it (that confused the ever living hell out of me when I first saw it), but from what I understand it'll be built in? So you simply wear tattoos, skins, etc, the same way you do with system avis. 

4 hours ago, Bitsy Buccaneer said:

Does V-Tech not sell moddable mesh clothing for its body? I don't know if any of the big full perm mesh clothing creators would consider supporting V-Tech. Asking them would probably make more sense than dropping a noble statement in the forums. Good luck.

There are v-tech creators that allow you to texture their clothes to fit your style, but that doesn't solve the problem of little diverse options. Some Maitreya outfits work for it, since it's a Maitreya flat chest add-on, but it can be tricky to find things that do. 

And I suppose, but making a forum post is harmless and I ended up learning a lot about something I've always been interested in. Posts can help you reach a wider audience, meet awesome new people, share ideas and learn things. I am glad I made this post, and I hope people hear your complaint about hypersexualized clothes and help you find ones that better suit your desires.

[Fionalein]

Sadly each rigging to a body costs a serious amount of time or money so anything beyond your basic customer base's needs is a bonus you have to invest in first. Currently a handful of bodies dominate the market and in a feedback loop designers make only cloth for those - which again leads to improves market share of those bodies as they are the ones "most supported".

[Shudo]

21 hours ago, OfDragonFire said:

I was under the illusion that rigging was easier, for some reason. Like, you can do it in minutes, once you have the template (body)

Sadly no. This video is worth watching if you want to understand just a tiny bit more.

 

[Zeta Vandyke]

On 3/24/2019 at 6:19 PM, Bitsy Buccaneer said:

And the mainstream in SL has become very hypersexualised for women's clothing. Our choices are basically suburban soccer mom or show us your boobs

I really disagree with this. There are so many awesome looking, fashionable acceptable decent cloths for sale these days. Some of the biggest brands like Blueberry or Addams sell great looking outfits that are perfectly acceptable to wear in public. There are tons of normal length and boob covering dresses, jeans, tops, jackets and whatever out there from great designers that are not skimpy at all. Its much better actually these days compared to the earlier years.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

On 3/24/2019 at 1:19 PM, Bitsy Buccaneer said:

Our choices are basically suburban soccer mom or show us your boobs. If you want anything else, choices are far more limited, even for women-women.

Over 2 million items in womens apparel on the MP and its all either soccer mom or stripper? I highly doubt that.

[Tazzie Tuque]

3 hours ago, Zeta Vandyke said:

And the mainstream in SL has become very hypersexualised for women's clothing. Our choices are basically suburban soccer mom or show us your boobs

I also totally disagree with this statement.  Yes there are skimpy, and sexy outfits out there, of course there are because there IS a market for those types of styles,  as for suburban soccer mom clothing.. lol  I am not sure I even know what that is, unless you mean just jeans and T shirts,  which are worn by a whole lot of women in a wide variety of styles and textures.  But there is so so much more out there, as noted by other responses here.  Widen your search parameters,  visit some actual stores in world,  perhaps you might find a whole lot more and varied styles than you seem to have been finding.  

[Janet Voxel]

Checking in on disagreeing on mainly stripper or soccer mom clothing being out there.

Theres lots of good stuff out there and it’s not even hard to find. 

[Robin Kiyori]

To bring  it around back on topic.

 

There is a market for  more androgynous/unisex clothing, Stores like the Secret Store, Stories,  all provide more feminine clothing  for V-tech that isn't just  "yet another crop top",  Certain stores  provide both  male-mesh body  and  female/flat chest  versions of the same outfit.

We'll not get a perfect world where every store has fitting for every body. Like other posters have said,  that just isn't viable  in the terms of  profit vs  cost and  effort. 

But there can and  is a demand for more styles that would suit both without necessarily  creating too much effort for too little profit. Even if it's just  for the more popular mesh body brands.  We just have to prove to the makers that there is a want for it and support and share the stores that do it!

Edited March 28, 2019 by AylinVali