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WingalingDragon

Why do people support sellers that do no mod?

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5 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

The only problem I have with it is that the family members most likely are not able to offer customer support.

I repeat myself: following your logics "Used items" and gachas should be banned first ;)

 

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12 minutes ago, Sandy Schnook said:

Then they wouldn't have to redo LMs for each item on the MP if they change stores.

They don't have to do that at all. Changing thousands of items is only a couple clicks, a little copy and paste and takes about 5mins if you don't use dial up (does that still even exist?).

You can mass edit listings, 100 of them at a time, and change the slurl (and only the slurl) for all 100 listings at once. Do this for 10 pages and it takes less than 5 minutes and voila, 1000+ product listings with an updated SLURL.

Also, for clothing I couldn't care less if they're no mod, however as soon as it comes to home & garden stuff, that sucker better be mod or else....

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1 minute ago, Solar Legion said:

It's called a Money Sink, Drake - perhaps you've heard of the concept?

Seeing as LL can set the value of the $L at will, you know darn well it isnt a money sink.

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

Seeing as LL can set the value of the $L at will, you know darn well it isnt a money sink.

What Linden Lab is capable of doing is rather irrelevant and furthermore does not negate inactive accounts acting as sinks, much as you'd like to believe otherwise.

You don't like that users are buying what they wish to buy? Tough. Get over it.

Edited by Solar Legion
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6 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

I repeat myself: following your logics "Used items" and gachas should be banned first ;)

 

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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

Maybe go back and reread all of his comments so you are taking them in context. His whole approach from the beginning is like a call to arms. Telling shoppers why are you still buying from creators who make no-mod products. And then goes further to insult creators as being shady because they have the nerve to want to make money for selling the products in different colors. 

I don't need to re-read. This isn't my first go around with this particular dog and pony show discussion (to mod or not to mod).

When it comes to mesh clothing, I have very little choice but to buy no mod. No, I don't like it and there isn't anything anyone can say or do to change my mind about it. I'm too used to being able to tweak things to fit my personality and/or needs.

Once upon a time (2005) I made homes that were no mod/no trans because I didn't want people messing up my work or giving it away for free to friends. After talking with other creators and customers, I soon realized the error of my ways. It's not about what the creator wants, especially since there is no stopping copybotting. It's about what the customer needs. How many times has anyone purchased something because what they needed didn't exist, but they could mod it to fit their needs? Have you never purchased something that wasn't exactly what you needed but you knew you could mod it to fit those needs when there was nothing else on the grid that would work? Even you are adding walls to Linden Homes to mod them to your liking/needs.

For me, the bottom line is, if it's copy/mod/no trans, I'll buy it. If it's no mod, I'll either keep looking or change my plans but I will NOT buy no mod items. That will not change. 

Creators who don't think others should have the ability (or talent) to mod items are doing their customers a disservice and outright insulting them.

Edited by Selene Gregoire

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8 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

Once upon a time (2005) I made homes that were no mod/no trans because I didn't want people messing up my work or giving it away for free to friends. After talking with other creators and customers, I soon realized the error of my ways. It's not about what the creator wants, especially since there is not stopping copybotting. It's about what the customer needs. How many times has anyone purchased something because what they needed didn't exist, but they could mod it to fit their needs? Have you never purchased something that wasn't exactly what you needed but you knew you could mod it to fit those needs when there was nothing else on the grid that would work? Even you are adding walls to Linden Homes to mod them to your liking/needs.

I have never sold a house no mod. But it's my choice to set perms how I want. It's your choice to buy said items if you want. I have explained my viewpoint on mod vs no-mod extensively. You can throw accusations at me and they will not stick. I'm not going to explain myself to you or anyone else in this thread because there's no point in repeating myself because someone chooses to not understand what I've said.

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1 minute ago, Blush Bravin said:

I have never sold a house no mod. But it's my choice to set perms how I want. It's your choice to buy said items if you want. I have explained my viewpoint on mod vs no-mod extensively. You can throw accusations at me and they will not stick. I'm not going to explain myself to you or anyone else in this thread because there's no point in repeating myself because someone chooses to not understand what I've said.

What accusations? Where did I ask you to explain yourself? 

I understood you quite well. You seem to be misreading my posts as I said I made the homes, not you. I didn't say anything about you personally.

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Incidentally, I have had no problem whatsoever getting customer support from the creator on gachas I've bought from third parties. 

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

What accusations? Where did I ask you to explain yourself? 

I understood you quite well. You seem to be misreading my posts as I said I made the homes, not you. I didn't say anything about you personally.

I didn't think you meant me about the houses, I was using an example as you did in regards to houses. 

I find this remark insulting as a creator 

33 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

Creators who don't think others should have the ability (or talent) to mod items are doing their customers a disservice and outright insulting them.

I'm not going to address the talent aspect because I don't predetermine the talent of my customers. But I do decide if they will have the ability or not to modify my creations. There are things I make that I don't want changed for whatever reason. I shouldn't have to even explain why I don't want them modded. It's my choice .. and as I've said over and over .. and fickin over again .. you have the right to not buy said item. This really is ridiculous.

Added: In case you haven't noticed .. I can be easily riled. My mom says it's the Irish in me. 

Edited by Blush Bravin
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Posted (edited)

I don't, personally. Or rather, it depends on the item. If it's clothes in particular, the creator better have exactly the color scheme(s) I like, or just leave it modifiable. Otherwise I'm not buying. It's fully within their rights to decline my money. Not that I understand why but not everyone's going to understand each other.

Edited by Cinos Field

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Posted (edited)

My stance on this is the same as the last 19 times in the last year someone has spat the dummy over this subject.

If it looks cool I will buy it. If it doesn't then I won't. If it's mod, bonus. If it isn't, oh well.

Life is too short to stress about this. Creators make all kinds of things and the beauty of SL is they can do it any way they want. If you don't like it then simply don't buy from them.

Edited by ItHadToComeToThis
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6 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

I didn't think you meant me about the houses, I was using an example as you did in regards to houses. 

I find this remark insulting as a creator 

I'm not going to address the talent aspect because I don't predetermine the talent of my customers. But I do decide if they will have the ability or not to modify my creations. There are things I make that I don't want changed for whatever reason. I shouldn't have to even explain why I don't want them modded. It's my choice .. and as I've said over and over .. and fickin over again .. you have the right to not buy said item. This really is ridiculous.

Please stop taking your feelings about what others have said and/or done out on me. I am not those other people.

I feel the same way about other creators who think people don't have the intelligence or ability/capability to mod something so that it fits their needs. There have been so many times I wanted to do something in SL and couldn't because the only items available didn't quite fit my needs and they were no mod. I can't tell you how many projects I had to shelve over the years because of that.

Yes, it is your creation. Yes, you have the right to dictate it being mod or no mod. Yes, I have the right to not buy your nomod product. And round and round it goes.

*sighs* You seem to be taking the things I'm trying to say personally and that is not how they are meant. 

If an item is copy and I mess it up then there is no issue. I can just rez out a new one and try again. I assume creators not setting permissions no copy/mod would be a no brainer.

After much trial and error, I found it best to make my items copy/mod/no trans. 

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1 hour ago, Selene Gregoire said:

Creators who don't think others should have the ability (or talent) to mod items are doing their customers a disservice and outright insulting them.

Nearly all of my creations are copy/mod, but there was this one cave in more recent years I just could not make mod. I had learned something about the balance of certain colors and the interplay of light. These factors of of color & light and how they balanced was so crucial for the form of the cave and its beauty, and I didn't want it changed. So if somebody likes that cave they'll have to buy it for what it is and how it fits into their existing landscape with those colors, but if they want a cave they can change rock & water textures with to fit their land better then they can buy one of my other caves.
I'm not doing a customer a disservice and outright insulting them by making something no-mod -- perhaps they could combine other colors and make something even more beautiful out of the elements that nature provides. I just wanted this one creation to stay as it is, and I should have that right without being labeled as some kind of insensitive creep who insults customers.

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Basically if I had to tell anything to no mod creators is at least have a full RGB palette of color options with a HUD. Just primary colors is not enough.

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This topic is always a recurring theme in SL and it's annoying.  I just don't understand why it's so important to people.  Why even care this much after 15 years?  Is it really that important?  The system has been working fine all these years but people still aren't satisfied and they want to drag everyone else into their own utopian bubble of pro-mod.  It's just a weird  evangelizing obsession at this point.

The color/tint argument is also invalid because not all textures will be represented as they should be.  Modifying the various aspects of the product could also potentially hurt sales if others see it in a distorted modified state.

I don't really have any reason to mod most things anyway, besides resizing something, or dropping animations inside an AO.  If we're talking clothing and hair, resizing manually isn't really needed anymore since most items are fitted mesh now.  I usually only need to resize something if the item is outdated, or if some content creator hasn't learned how to add resize scripts in their newly released items.

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On 3/19/2019 at 5:13 AM, HarrisonMcKenzie said:

As for how my clothing looks reflecting on my skills as an artist, the answer to that should be self-evident. If someone sees a piece of my clothing and it looks like complete garbage, they are going to assume that's my doing. That hurts my sales. Your desire to ruin my work doesn't outweigh my desire to protect my brand.

I'm a little late to this thread but I always took a different approach.  Along with offering the item as modify, I include the AO map and UV map for the mesh clothing that I created and where possible, detailed instructions for modifying and scripts for injecting those custom textures into a complex item.  Textures were never my excitement and I knew that most of my customers liked to play around by linking items (yes even rigged mesh has a reason for linking items), adding scripts and so on.

As to someone making my stuff look like complete garbage, there's an opposite to this.  If by me providing the resources, someone then made a great texture and made my item look great, that surely helped sales right? (This was never my thought process but it is as valid as the notion that someone changing the item ruins it and thus devalues the brand.)

Yes I saw a few solid black items and wondered how the purchaser reasoned that it looked good but it was their choice, just someone can go and purchase a classic work of art painting and cover it in white emulsion and then call it impressionist or whatever.

To each their own and this is the topic that just keeps giving. Ultimately, SL provides a permissions system and it's up to both parties to determine the combination that provides the solution desired. My advice is to always ask if there's something alternate that the item creator may be willing to do.  In some cases, they will on a case by case basis and on others it opens the biggest can of dramafest laden catfighting imaginable.  I've been on the receiving end of both camps but as a creator was always willing to try to help although in some cases the requested outcome cannot be delivered for various reasons.

Just as in RL, offer for sale = invitation to treat.  If the product as offered isn't appropriate, determine the possible outcomes prior to payment.  Undesired outcome = don't buy.

 

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Posted (edited)

didn't we used to be able to delete our own posts when making an accidental double post?  Oh well, it has been a while.

Edited by Sassy Romano
double post

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17 minutes ago, Sassy Romano said:

didn't we used to be able to delete our own posts when making an accidental double post?  Oh well, it has been a while.

not since I joined, - you only have a 24 hour period to edit it and change it to "..." but you cannot delete

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I see gacha resellers as the SL version of Craigslist. Or in my country, Finn.

If I buy a used refrigerator, I am not getting any support from the private seller. Unless it is so new that the warranty is still valid, and I got the receipt with the fridge. It almost never happens, that items is sold when the warranty is valid...

The RL fridge is mod, but what can I do with that? Repair it myself? I do not have that knowledge. Have it repaired for more than a new fridge will cost?

The difference is that the RL item may set me back financially, while the SL item is not. So it is not *that* important for me.

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Posted (edited)
On 3/21/2019 at 3:20 AM, Sasy Scarborough said:

Yes you said Many so I was wondering where this many are, I did not expect you to say full perms at all as that contradicts the whole base of questioning, of course full perms creators include textures, that is a given, but we were talking about people that create and sell items no mod, they are not those, so I am still wondering where this many creators with regular perms creating their own content are providing textures with the items, I already covered Furries and creators that promote the concept of Mods as in selling on your own adaptation of the work so that others may enjoy it. 

I was just curious because as I said if there were many, I want to know more of them.

Maybe they fall under the creators that promote mods, and I am definitely forgetting some unfortunately, but here's some :) Krankhaus(who also has amazing prices), ASR, M.O.R., Utilizator, Wretch, Glutz, Luca's Mesh Foundry(also good prices!)

Some of those may not give them for every item, and some might require an external download on a provided link as well.  Hopefully that helps though!

Edited by WingalingDragon

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Marianne Little said:

I see gacha resellers as the SL version of Craigslist. Or in my country, Finn.

If I buy a used refrigerator, I am not getting any support from the private seller. Unless it is so new that the warranty is still valid, and I got the receipt with the fridge. It almost never happens, that items is sold when the warranty is valid...

The RL fridge is mod, but what can I do with that? Repair it myself? I do not have that knowledge. Have it repaired for more than a new fridge will cost?

The difference is that the RL item may set me back financially, while the SL item is not. So it is not *that* important for me.

I've mentioned many times that most of my gacha items come from the MP. I haven't had any issues at all getting customer support from the creator even though I bought the item from a third party vendor. One time I was retexturing a wall and accidentally dropped the texture on one of my fave little gacha items. Well of course, I destroyed that little favorite. I contacted the creator explained what I had done and asked to exchange the destroyed item for a new one. He quickly agreed and that was that. I have many times contacted creators asking to exchange the no-copy items for copy items, and again no issues were encountered. If a creator makes an item transfer and no copy, it doesn't negate their responsibility to provide customer support to whoever currently owns the product. So I really think it's a bogus argument that buying gacha items from third-party vendors means you will not get customer support. 

Unfortunately, I think this kind of belief probably prevents people from even contacting the creator thinking that they won't get any kind of response. 

Edited by Blush Bravin

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Nextio said:

The color/tint argument is also invalid because not all textures will be represented as they should be.  Modifying the various aspects of the product could also potentially hurt sales if others see it in a distorted modified state.

Pff, if there's any argument that's invalid it'd have to be this one. Let me modify something and it'll leave a better impression than the original. :P Creators are not inherently better at making appealing designs than modders. The most obvious evidence of that is the mass of primary color outfits at events. You can do so much more with the whole rainbow at your disposal.

Also, none of the hair I buy is rigged. Not only do I have short hair, but rigged hair will not and cannot fit on my head. So it must be resized. It's not even a matter of opinion: I literally *cannot* wear no mod hair. Thankfully, many creators (CATWA for one!) allow it.

Edited by Cinos Field
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