Is it possible for someone to hack your IM’s?

[Beardypops]

I am wondering if it is at all possible, apart from a key logger, to hack someone’s IM’s in SL. Are there any black market huds out there for example that someone might use, or any griefer kind of tools that may be banned officially but someone could use to read your IM’s? I’ve searched around various forum posts and no one has mentioned things like huds or scripts that a person might have, where they could accomplish such a thing. I am asking because i have recently seen proof of people doing things that I didnt even know were possible in SL and the only explanation I can see would be huds or tools of some kind, so now I’m wondering just what is truly private if someone has the right tools?

[Qie Niangao]

It certainly wouldn't be a HUD -- the scripting language can't get anywhere near IM communications.

On the other hand, some folks use (extremely) unofficial viewers, any of which could theoretically leak IM content to a third party who could then sell it on to anybody in the market. That would require one of the IM participants to be using such a viewer.

Another possibility -- more difficult than installing a keylogger -- would be a man-in-the-middle somewhere on the IM communication path. I don't think the messaging is encrypted, but still this is big-league hackery, foreign state and Three Letter Agency style, so unless you're literally exchanging state secrets in SL, it's not something I'd worry about.

[Wulfie Reanimator]

2 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

I don't think the messaging is encrypted

IMs used to be sent as plain text between viewers, but that's no longer the case. 

IMs in general are relatively "snoop proof," unlike a bunch of other things that aren't/can't be protected. 

That said, "HUDs" in SL are pretty powerless to do anything of real harm. Sure, they can push your avatar around, track your online status and spam messages to you, but nothing to actually worry about.

Edited March 12, 2019 by Wulfie Reanimator

[Beardypops]

What about using them to find someone’s location in SL? I’ve seen people find the SL home of someone they have no ties to at all 

[Wulfie Reanimator]

26 minutes ago, Beardypops said:

What about using them to find someone’s location in SL? I’ve seen people find the SL home of someone they have no ties to at all 

Can't be done unless the person being tracked actually wears (or rezzes) a tracker that would report its position to someone else.

[Qie Niangao]

29 minutes ago, Beardypops said:

What about using them to find someone’s location in SL? I’ve seen people find the SL home of someone they have no ties to at all 

That's actually two different questions. Finding an arbitrary current location is limited to tattletale attachments, as Wulfie says (although ages ago it was briefly possible for a script to track an avatar through one teleport hop, as an unfortunate and extremely laggy side-effect of a then-new scripting feature).

Finding somebody's home, on the other hand, or really any likely location, is almost always the result of amateur detective work with Search and study of Group links and their associates' Profile Picks. It's fun, but a little creepy.

[Solar Legion]

Two short answers for you: No and not without scripts.

[Beardypops]

1 hour ago, Solar Legion said:

Two short answers for you: No and not without scripts.

“Not without scripts?”

 

What about using them to find someone’s location in SL? I’ve seen people find the SL home of someone they have no ties to at all 

[Madelaine McMasters]

1 minute ago, Beardypops said:

“Not without scripts?”

What about using them to find someone’s location in SL? I’ve seen people find the SL home of someone they have no ties to at all 

There is no mechanism for determining the location of an SL resident unless they are wearing a scripted object that rats them out. Most cases of finding someone probably boil down to good old fashioned sleuthing and/or social engineering. The hunter might have alts unknown to the target, friends might leak, or the target's behavior might be predictable.

[Solar Legion]

7 minutes ago, Beardypops said:

“Not without scripts?”

 

What about using them to find someone’s location in SL? I’ve seen people find the SL home of someone they have no ties to at all 

Question one, regarding IM hacking: No.

Question two, regarding location tracking: Not without scripts.

Those are the short answers.

To expound slightly on the second (and add to Maddy's post above): Users have a tendency to add Picks to their profiles while at locations they frequent or while at home, in both cases the Pick often has nothing to do with the location it was created at.

Because so many log in "At Home" it is trivial to guess that the most frequent location used for Picks may well be a user's Home location.

That covers that particular case.

If you have friends, they have the option of sharing their location with you and vice versa.

Edited March 12, 2019 by Solar Legion

[Coffee Pancake]

7 hours ago, Beardypops said:

I am wondering if it is at all possible, apart from a key logger, to hack someone’s IM’s in SL. Are there any black market huds out there for example that someone might use, or any griefer kind of tools that may be banned officially but someone could use to read your IM’s?

No.

it is 100% impossible for any in world object, a hud, a prim, whatever to intercept your IM messages. These are sent from the viewer to the server directly. Scripts do not run on the viewer, only on the server and they are tightly sandboxed. It is simply impossible.

Your confusion might in part be due to RLVa being able to block IM messages. This happens without any interception, a script sends a special predefined command to a special viewer which then replaces incoming or outgoing messages with a different message - typically something like ***IM Blocked By Senders Viewer*** - What the person actually typed is forgotten. This behavior is entirely opt in by the person getting their messages blocked. Yes. Really really.

There are no commands that would enable RLVa to intercept IM messages and there never will be.

 

Quote

I am asking because i have recently seen proof of people doing things that I didnt even know were possible in SL and the only explanation I can see would be huds or tools of some kind, so now I’m wondering just what is truly private if someone has the right tools?

SL can be a bit weird in the way it operates, If you have to ask about IM interception then I think it's fair to say you have very little idea of how any of this works, wouldn't know what you were actually looking at, and  whoever is showing off to you is taking advantage of your naivety and telling big fat lies.

33 minutes ago, Beardypops said:

“Not without scripts?”

 

What about using them to find someone’s location in SL? I’ve seen people find the SL home of someone they have no ties to at all 

This is easily accomplished via publically accessible information. Maybe they have their home in their picks, maybe their partner does, etc etc. Again, they are BSing you.

 

I suggest you find someone new to hang out with before your friend gets you both banned ^^

Edited March 12, 2019 by CoffeeDujour

[Whirly Fizzle]

1 hour ago, Beardypops said:

What about using them to find someone’s location in SL? I’ve seen people find the SL home of someone they have no ties to at all 

Most likely accomplished by looking at the persons profile & the locations they make their picks & other clues.
I find myself having to do this quite often when someone files a FS support ticket about a problem at their home & they don't give their home location.  If they are not online to tell me & didn't reply to their ticket I will have a snoop & see if I can find it myself.  I'm quite often successful 

That being said, if User A uses a griffy viewer with certain "features" & User A has been on the same region at one time as User B and User B has voice enabled, it is possible for User A to find the location User B is currently in if User B has voice enabled.

As for being able to snoop in on private IM conversations, I don't know of any way this is possible unless the snooper has access to the victims computer to look at chat logs, the snooper has managed to get a keylogger onto the victims computer, the snooper is sitting outside the victims home sniffing their wifi, either the snooper or victim is using a griffy viewer that phones home the IM conversation or both parties are on a non SL grid where grid admins can read back all agent chat (the same way Lindens can on SL).

8 hours ago, Beardypops said:

I am asking because i have recently seen proof of people doing things that I didnt even know were possible in SL

What exactly did you see proof of?
 

[Beardypops]

Okay, thank you all for your responses. I thought that was the case, but just wanted conclusive answers to a few of these things. Consider this post closed. 

[Lucia Nightfire]

There may be websites that bots, as they travel the grid, send parcel information to that may allow search interfacing by users.

[Ardy Lay]

There are a lot of bots running around SL looking at various things.  It would not surprise me one bit to learn that at least one bot operator is divulging the locations of agents present in a region during a brief visit to a third party or to find a bot with these capabilities made available for rent or purchase.  

[Whirly Fizzle]

3 minutes ago, Ardy Lay said:

There are a lot of bots running around SL looking at various things.  It would not surprise me one bit to learn that at least one bot operator is divulging the locations of agents present in a region during a brief visit to a third party or to find a bot with these capabilities made available for rent or purchase.  

That already happened actually.
There was a "Find your friend" HUD available on the MP that was free & you had to then pay per search for each "friend".  They used a network of bots to log all avatars on the regions & it gave you the last known locations of your "friend".
Obviously it didn't last long on the MP before it was killed with fire.
Wouldn't surprise me at all if it was still available off the grid as Lucia said above.

[Ardy Lay]

Yay.  I finally had an idea that both is in demand and is feasible to implement.  Don't mention that it's been, done, is creepy and most likely illegal in most jurisdictions including Second Life.  😉  Okay, I re-read his post and understand it now.

Edited March 13, 2019 by Ardy Lay

[Whirly Fizzle]

I found an old thread about it

 

[Beardypops]

On 3/12/2019 at 10:54 AM, CoffeeDujour said:

SL can be a bit weird in the way it operates, If you have to ask about IM interception then I think it's fair to say you have very little idea of how any of this works...

 

Thank you, Captain Obvious >.> clearly I dont know how it all works, or I wouldnt have asked. But I am not just going to sit here and trust that nothing has ever been created in the last 15 yrs that was able to do it. RLV “used” to be able to read people’s IM’s. Who is to say back then, nothing was created that could do it apart from granting permission. So I don’t necessarily believe the system is as impenetrable as everyone claims, just because people “think” it is. I know IM’s used to be sent in plain text, is that why RLV worked that way in the past? Did end to end encryption make it impossible for these types of items to work? That’s all I’m trying to find out. 

I fail to see how it makes me naive for attempting to ask people who know more about how it all works than I do. I’m sorry if I am not willing to just blindly trust simply because items that were created 10-15 yrs ago, have been banned for current sale, and just trust that means they can no longer be used. Maybe that’s how your world operates, but it sure isn’t my experience. Maybe you should check your definition of the word naive.

 

 

Edited March 14, 2019 by Beardypops

[Beardypops]

On 3/12/2019 at 9:51 PM, Whirly Fizzle said:

That already happened actually.
There was a "Find your friend" HUD available on the MP that was free & you had to then pay per search for each "friend".  They used a network of bots to log all avatars on the regions & it gave you the last known locations of your "friend".
Obviously it didn't last long on the MP before it was killed with fire.
Wouldn't surprise me at all if it was still available off the grid as Lucia said above.

Well, and that’s kind of my point. It’s all well and good to sit there in your little “it cant happen”’ safety zones, but SL has been around for 15 years and people have made a ton of huds and scripts and other nefarious things to grief and spy on people that are officially “outlawed,” but if you still have it in your inventory, who is to say you cant still use it...megaprims anyone? You may not be able to buy them, but you can sure af still rez them!! I’m with Whirly on this,  just because you cant buy it now, doesnt mean it never existed and cant still be used...

Edited March 14, 2019 by Beardypops

[Coffee Pancake]

You asked ...  I stand by my previous post.

 

[Solar Legion]

Paranoia at its finest... 

[Coffee Pancake]

That or a fishing trip ... Google didn't turn up any evil script haxors, so "innocently" ask on the forums.

[Beardypops]

Or it’s just simply someone trying to understand the technology who has been around long enough to know that people have created nefarious tools in the past. I am not sure why my questions and attempts to understand the technology has sparked you into responding to me like an a**hole. If you dont ask, you cant learn. 

 

And maybe I am paranoid, but I have seen enough things to make me question. Still dont see what is wrong with trying to understand how it all works to keep myself from wondering.

Edited March 14, 2019 by Beardypops

[Qie Niangao]

2 hours ago, Beardypops said:

RLV “used” to be able to read people’s IM’s.

Really?