Too many static avatar bot's in SL

[animats]

8 hours ago, Fionalein said:

Animesh also takes up LI, bots don't - it will always remain a tradeoff between renting servertime for a bot or renting land capacity...

Valerie, at my place in Vallone, is 36LI, and about 14000 tris. 14000/666 = 21 LI, plus 15 for animesh. Like a classic avi with baked on clothing.

A rigged mesh avatar model can easily be converted to animesh, but a full bento avatar with mesh clothing can be above 120LI as animesh. Animesh characters need to be custom designed for the job to have a reasonable LI.

LL may reduce the LI cost of animesh. They wanted to start high and go down, rather than start low and raise it later. I've suggested at Server User Group that the LI for the mesh and the LI for being animesh should be a max, rather than an add. They use different resources. That would give you the first 10,000 triangles in the 15 LI price of the animesh. 15 LI animesh with 10K tris wouldn't be so bad.

(All this is for animesh objects. Animesh attachments add to avatar complexity, not land impact.)

[Lucia Nightfire]

5 hours ago, animats said:

I've suggested at Server User Group that the LI for the mesh and the LI for being animesh should be a max, rather than an add. They use different resources. That would give you the first 10,000 triangles in the 15 LI price of the animesh. 15 LI animesh with 10K tris wouldn't be so bad.

The presence of the full bento skeleton does have some render cost. That is why there is a minimum 15 LI charge. Granted, the actual impact itself varies with the hardware doing the rendering.

[Phil Deakins]

10 hours ago, kali Wylder said:

I just don't understand what all the fuss is about.  There have always been bots.  They aren't hurting you.  If you encounter somebody who does not talk to you that doesn't mean they are a bot.  They might just be afk. They might be there and be busy scripting or something. They might be antisocial. Or they might not like the look of you. Just go somewhere else.  There are real people in SL.  Some of them might not talk to you, but some will.  It doesn't mean the sky is falling.  It doesn't mean the end of SL as we know it.

I totally agree. I recently wrote a post about the negativity concerning bots. People just seem to be negative about them without giving it a moments thought, other than to be negative just for the sake of it, and usually because they've seen other people being negative about them in the past. Being irrationally negative about bots seems to be a thing here.

[Phil Deakins]

A long time ago, people were negative about traffic bots, which was fair enough. At least rational thought went into it, and the complaints were about the fairness of it. But I don't remember people being negative about bots in general back then. It was just traffic bots as far as I remember. After traffic bots were outlawed, it seems as though the negativity about them passed to bots in general. Some people just have to have things to moan about, and bots seems to have become a good target, whether there is any sense in it or not.

Those who moan will probably applaud animesh avatars that do the same job as some bots, but woe betide anyone who uses an actual unmanned user account for the same job. Totally irrational, init lol.

I think that some people's thinking is selfish; i.e. they want to know how many real people are logged in, or they don't want to treat an avatar as though it has a real person on the other end if it doesn't have one - not even for the seconds it takes to realise it. All about self, and nothing to do with SL or other people. At least when it was just traffic bots that were complained about, it was about SL and the workings of SL.

Edited March 11, 2019 by Phil Deakins

[Coffee Pancake]

21 hours ago, Fionalein said:

Animesh also takes up LI, bots don't - it will always remain a tradeoff between renting servertime for a bot or renting land capacity...

I remember one guy who used bots on static pose balls wearing huge parts of his build as attachments.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

12 hours ago, Lucia Nightfire said:

 

Even more fun is to come when Project ArcTan is implemented and texture memory will start adding to land impact.

so if I rezz a prim and put a different 1024 texture on each face, it will be worth... what? 6 land impact?

Every time you think LL couldn't do anything more stupid, they still manage to.

Edited March 11, 2019 by BilliJo Aldrin
cut out parts of the quote irrelevant to my reply

[BilliJo Aldrin]

41 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

A long time ago, people were negative about traffic bots, which was fair enough. At least rational thought went into it, and the complaints were about the fairness of it. But I don't remember people being negative about bots in general back then. It was just traffic bots as far as I remember. After traffic bots were outlawed, it seems as though the negativity about them passed to bots in general. Some people just have to have things to moan about, and bots seems to have become a good target, whether there is any sense in it or not.

Those who moan will probably applaud animesh avatars that do the same job as some bots, but woe betide anyone who uses an actual unmanned user account for the same job. Totally irrational, init lol.

I think that some people's thinking is selfish; i.e. they want to know how many real people are logged in, or they don't want to treat an avatar as though it has a real person on the other end if it doesn't have one - not even for the seconds it takes to realise it. All about self, and nothing to do with SL or other people. At least when it was just traffic bots that were complained about, it was about SL and the workings of SL.

bots, afk club avatars, animesh, they all derender just as easily.

[Coffee Pancake]

4 hours ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

so if I rezz a prim and put a different 1024 texture on each face, it will be worth... what? 6 land impact?

Every time you think LL couldn't do anything more stupid, they still manage to.

Oh no .. we really do need this. Really really.

The linden viewer is stuck at 512mb vram and is easily tanked by certain locations, TPV's hack in a bit more, but it's a hack and not a real solution. We're pinned up against a wall, no more wiggle room, and avatar/object complexity continues to escalate.

The majority of SL users are not on high end fancy gfx cards.

A real solution to viewer VRAM allocation is proving rather hard to implement, some gfx cards flat-out lie about how much memory they have .. buyer beware and all that.

 

[Alyona Su]

16 hours ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

At least a simple cube is still 1 LI

...Until you convert it into Animesh. Then it jumps to 462. Bahaha!

13 hours ago, Lucia Nightfire said:

Animesh land impact is not arbitrary, but is based on charged triangles. The formula is 15 + (1.5 * charged Ktris). Charged triangles are High LOD tris plus any tri's over the 1:2, 1:4, 1:8 ratio for Med, Low and Lowest LOD's. It is explained at the bottom of this page. Your life sized orca probably has a LOD triangle schema like 10000,5000,2500,1250 or less, but your micro orca probably has LOD triangle schema like 10000,10000,10000,1 or 10000,10000,10000,10000 which will have an additional 125% or 212.5% land impact than if the creator stayed under the "optimized" ratio.

Even more fun is to come when Project ArcTan is implemented and texture memory will start adding to land impact.

~Deer staring into oncoming headlights look~

9 hours ago, Blush Bravin said:

I know it sounds painful, and believe me I am a prim hog for sure, so it will hurt me as well. But with texture resolution so out of control and causing major lag issues, I think it's a good thing. Maybe with it showing up in the LI creators will be more careful to not use 1024x1024 textures where a 256x256 is more appropriate.

It would be really painful if it were implemented and part of me says screwit: doit. Because where a 256x256 would do well, a 96x06 would do better. And yes, a texture that size can look great. The first biggest lag problem in SL is and always has been unoptimized textures designed for freeway billboard display and not the Internet.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

2 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

Oh no .. we really do need this. Really really.

The linden viewer is stuck at 512mb vram and is easily tanked by certain locations, TPV's hack in a bit more, but it's a hack and not a real solution. We're pinned up against a wall, no more wiggle room, and avatar/object complexity continues to escalate.

The majority of SL users are not on high end fancy gfx cards.

A real solution to viewer VRAM allocation is proving rather hard to implement, some gfx cards flat-out lie about how much memory they have .. buyer beware and all that.

 

I'm rapidly approaching the point where  I was 5 years ago, having a computer that is becoming unusable for SL. My setting are as low as I can go without affecting how my avatar looks, there's no shadows, frame rate is throttled at 15, which I only manage now when I'm alone on an empty sky platform. Being with a couple of friends drops it to 10, and at a busy club with draw at 32m and everyone jellied, i'll max at about 2 fps.

All these LL "fixes" aren't gonna help me, and every new improved shiny will just make things worse.

I'm hoping maybe Santa will bring me a new computer next Christmas.