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angelikiinha

Doubt about Maitreya Lara

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I'm using Lara for some time now, with a shape I did myself. I don't want to look like a giant, so my atual height is 194 cm. It makes me smaller than most avs around me, but what is really bothering me are her shoulders.

When she is arms up, they get really awkward and unnatural. I tried to adjust my shape, but it stills weird. And checking other avs using Lara, their shoulders look fine :/ I'm even thinking about buy Belleza Isis.

Is this a known issue of Lara? Maybe can you suggest some adjustment or a custom shape? I like to be "curvy" but slender (small waist, large hips, long legs) but not surreal.

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2 hours ago, angelikiinha said:

I'm using Lara for some time now, with a shape I did myself. I don't want to look like a giant, so my atual height is 194 cm. It makes me smaller than most avs around me, but what is really bothering me are her shoulders.

When she is arms up, they get really awkward and unnatural. I tried to adjust my shape, but it stills weird. And checking other avs using Lara, their shoulders look fine :/ I'm even thinking about buy Belleza Isis.

Is this a known issue of Lara? Maybe can you suggest some adjustment or a custom shape? I like to be "curvy" but slender (small waist, large hips, long legs) but not surreal.

Define weird. What is so weird about it?

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If you can, try taking a picture of what you mean and posting it here.

It may be your shape, or an animation(s) you're using, or both. Not all animations play nicely with all mesh. (I have one or two old ones that twist my wrists completely around so they look like wrung out dishcloths!) Narrow shoulders are a popular look, and that can affect things as well.

If you can snap a photo, that may help. Also, snag a Belleza demo and, using a similar shape, see if the same thing happens with that body. 

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It is most likely the animation or a combination of your shape plus the animation. There are some dances that make me have football player shoulders even though when in a normal natural pose my shoulders are very nicely shaped and on the narrow side of normal. But a picture would really help in diagnosing the issue.

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It is not easy for me to tell if you wear a mesh head because your picture is so small.

You can search the Marketplace for +Maitreya+(your head type) and sort in -> Avatar components -> Avatar shapes. Try some demos. You will see if they have shoulders that you like better.

For me, I searched for +Maitreya+Simone

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Have Maitreya Lara myself, and not experiencing this problem. Also did my own shape, and I do create poses. If the pose is messed up it can look unnatural, but that's a pose issue, not the body.

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Blush may be right on the money. Animations rotate your avatars shoulders as well, and if done badly they rotate them in unatural ways, those can range from 'huh, somehow this looks a bit off' to 'holy god I'm turning into the THING!'

This includes poses, furniture animations and AO's. I'm online a lot, hit me up sometime and I'll come have a look at you.

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Poses and animations can definitely make your body parts look strange feet for example what may look like a moderate amount of flex, toes pointing downwards on the SL male and female models that can be downloaded and used in Daz studio or other posing software and on the system body. can turn in to an extreme amount of flex on a mesh body enough the foot can appear to bend backwards.

So i don't believe the shape or body is to blame but the animations that may have been made before people/the creator started using mesh bodies

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8 hours ago, Claireschen Hesten said:

Poses and animations can definitely make your body parts look strange feet for example what may look like a moderate amount of flex, toes pointing downwards on the SL male and female models that can be downloaded and used in Daz studio or other posing software and on the system body. can turn in to an extreme amount of flex on a mesh body enough the foot can appear to bend backwards.

So i don't believe the shape or body is to blame but the animations that may have been made before people/the creator started using mesh bodies

Animations are still and should still be made like this.

Why?

Bent backwards feet on a mesh avi is what ankle fixes are for. System feet that point into the wrong direction do NOT have any fix like this. Ergo, see my first line. At least 50% of SL avi's do not use mesh bodies, most never will so us animation makers need and -want- to cater to the whole market.

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11 hours ago, Syn Anatine said:

Animations are still and should still be made like this.

Why?

Bent backwards feet on a mesh avi is what ankle fixes are for. System feet that point into the wrong direction do NOT have any fix like this. Ergo, see my first line. At least 50% of SL avi's do not use mesh bodies, most never will so us animation makers need and -want- to cater to the whole market.

I make poses, based on mesh bodies. Lots of the pose and animation creators are doing so, mesh and bento.

I wonder if its really 50% not using mesh bodies. Everywhere I go, events, clubs, hangouts, shops, exploring. Its mainly mesh I see out there (well, on females...). Same when I look on Flickr, all mesh avies. Since poses are usually made for picture purposes, I prefer to cater for the mesh bodies. And usually mesh owners also have some money to spend on their avies so its a good market. I think its not a good business model to design based on past techniques really.

Not saying system avies are bad, but the few "system people" I know its for costs, not because they really like it better. Then again, others just prefer system bodies.

11 hours ago, Syn Anatine said:

System feet that point into the wrong direction do NOT have any fix

They have, Alpha layer and mesh feet 😛

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16 hours ago, cicelydawn said:

Personally, I think all those deformers released by that guy are next to brilliant and they exactly address the visual flaws I've always had with certain appearances - with caution, though. The deforming can heavily mess with animations and their line up or may cause clipping into the body. Luckily, it's a simple object to wear and you'll see the difference in an instant. 

Depending on the circumstances, a tool like Animare might also be helpful.

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1 hour ago, Zeta Vandyke said:

I make poses, based on mesh bodies. Lots of the pose and animation creators are doing so, mesh and bento.

I wonder if its really 50% not using mesh bodies. Everywhere I go, events, clubs, hangouts, shops, exploring. Its mainly mesh I see out there (well, on females...). Same when I look on Flickr, all mesh avies. Since poses are usually made for picture purposes, I prefer to cater for the mesh bodies. And usually mesh owners also have some money to spend on their avies so its a good market. I think its not a good business model to design based on past techniques really.

Not saying system avies are bad, but the few "system people" I know its for costs, not because they really like it better. Then again, others just prefer system bodies.

They have, Alpha layer and mesh feet 😛

You are right that poses are used most often by those with mesh bodies, hence why I did not mention them and talked exclusively about animations, which are used by everyone in SL, the playing fields for both are entirely different.

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The problem with overextended ankles has been with us for longer than mesh bodies. We started having this issue the moment we put on our first pair of Slink high feet. That was years and years ago. Fortunately some animators have caught on to the fact and have started making animations that don't break our ankles but too many have not. For those few who still use system feet, it's not going to harm their animations if the ankles don't overextend for them. So why not make animations that don't make our ankles break?

I can't say this enough or strong enough .. I absolutely HATE ... HATE ... HATE ankle locks. I don't want to look as though I have my ankle in an invisible cast when I'm dancing!!! It's the main reason why over a year ago I stopped buying shoes for the high foot and only buy flats and mids.

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2 hours ago, Blush Bravin said:

The problem with overextended ankles has been with us for longer than mesh bodies. We started having this issue the moment we put on our first pair of Slink high feet.

Longer than that even.  I remember having an Ankle Lock object that I sometimes used way back in my early days - early 2007.   Even then, there were poses that would bend the ankle too far back when you were wearing high heels.

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I think what you're describing seems like a common complaint I've had (and I have heard about) with the Lara body. The Lara body is very nice, but it doesn't like its shoulders being on the very low end of the shape slider which is where I tend to go. Try making the shoulders slightly broader and see if that stops the deformation.

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The main reason I don’t wear a Maitreya are the brolic looking shoulders.

So it’s not just you OP.

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32 minutes ago, janetosilio said:

The main reason I don’t wear a Maitreya are the brolic looking shoulders.

 

On 3/8/2019 at 7:50 PM, angelikiinha said:

When she is arms up, they get really awkward and unnatural.

The main reason I suggest it's animations is because it's only when the arms are up. If she felt they were like that all the time then perhaps it would simply be a preference in body type but that's not likely in this case.

You can demo Slink, Maitreya, and Belleza bodies and put them all on at the same time. Make sure the skins are three very different tones so it's easy to tell them apart. Then use the alpha hud for all three and hide/show the shoulders as needed. Then you can do a comparison of the shoulders. The Slink and Maitreya are very similar with the Belleza being more slope shouldered. 

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Posted (edited)

I'm not sure if the image helps, but her shoulder look "down" and out of place; it's exactly the problem we see here https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/Shoulder-Bring-Down-DEMO/16442853. To be honest, it's way stranger sometimes (arms up is "ugh... wth?"). Shoulders are around 50 here - above it, she becomes too unnatural, and below, the deformation is worse.

Thanks for the suggestion of shoulder deformers, I did not even know it exists. Sounds like a solution, I'll try. Ankle locks saved me using another body (Altamura) and since Lara have the function in HUD, I'm still using it.

weirdshoulders.jpg.849602ae8457c2cfaf275a4abf474181.jpg

Edited by angelikiinha
deformer, not lock
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48 minutes ago, angelikiinha said:

Ankle locks saved me using another body (Altamura) and since Lara have the function in HUD, I'm still using it.

I wish there was a discreet checkbox for Ankle Lock in the Maitreya HUD when in minimised mode (also an Alpha Lock), instead of having to click several times to get to it for certain poses, and then off again. The Maitreya Ankle Lock always works, I've never known it not to work, unlike some of the more convenient 'animation ankle-locks' which, once on-screen, are one click away.

I can't say I've ever really noticed the Maitreya shoulders issue. My shoulders are usually set between 30 and 40.

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4 hours ago, Candice LittleBoots said:

The Maitreya Ankle Lock always works

I use an ankle lock from a shoe supplier combined with Maitreya. Without it I kept re-applying the lock over and over after TPing or re-logging.

The combi works flawlessly so far.

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16 hours ago, Mercedes Avon said:

I think what you're describing seems like a common complaint I've had (and I have heard about) with the Lara body. The Lara body is very nice, but it doesn't like its shoulders being on the very low end of the shape slider which is where I tend to go. Try making the shoulders slightly broader and see if that stops the deformation.

I keep my shoulder slider at 40 or slightly below. I never get close to 50. I look like a football player with pads with it set that high.

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Posted (edited)

I've definitely noticed a difference in how the shoulders in particular look between 2 different brands of AO's that I have.  With one, the shoulders often kind of droop forward some when standing, the other one the shoulders are up and back when standing, but that AO also creates a curved back like you're trying to stick your chest in someone's face.  I've also noticed that there can be a difference in how some clothes fit across the shoulder blades at times depending on which of the AO brands I'm using.  So it can be a trade-off of which aspects are more important. 

Depending on which body I'm wearing, I keep the shoulder sliders between 37 and 41.

Edited by moirakathleen
added slider info
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15 minutes ago, moirakathleen said:

I've also noticed that there can be a difference in how some clothes fit across the shoulder blades at times depending on which of the AO brands I'm using

Oh that's probably a thing too yeah. Used only Vista for the past well, 12 years. So can't really judge that, but makes sense.

Using Maitreya on my alts too, never had any shoulder problems on any of them though.

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