Skin Fair and BoM

[Blush Bravin]

I got into Skin Fair for an early peek this morning, and while my window shopping didn't cover each and every shop, I looked around enough to get a pretty good idea that skinners just aren't thinking about BoM. It seems that everywhere I looked only appliers were being offered. None of the ones I actually cammed had system layers available. I'm surprised and a bit disappointed. I'm not buying any new skins that don't have BoM support. So guess I won't be shopping Skin Fair this season.

[So Whimsy]

Not trying to hijack your topic, but events as a whole seem to be taking a nosedive.

I admit, I spent 20k+L per arcade for YEARS. Keyword, spent. I was *stoked* for this months arcade. Went there, and left.
Total amount of Linden spent: 0.
Literally 0.

Creativity is going down the drain, its the same old same old at ANY type of event.
You just named another symptom of it. Creators being like sheep and moving from one fad to the other. At this point you either dev for mesh bodies or make mesh or you won't even get into an event.

Or has anyone seen any sculpt works presented at any events lately?

If you go to events you either get to look like a harlot or you add more of the same looking furniture to your home that you already have 32432 alternative but incredibly similar designs in your inventory.

/end rant

[Blush Bravin]

I was actually looking forward to finding skin enhancements. I really like adding moles, freckles, wrinkles, blemishes and tattoos to enhance the looks of my avatar. With BoM coming this will be much easier to do. So these were the kinds of things I was eager to see. Of course none of it will work unless my favorite skinner also makes system layers for my mesh body and head to use with BoM. With BoM seemingly closer to release I expected to see the skinners coming on board with releasing system layers or adding system layers to newly released applier packs. But nope! Nada! Not there!  

I'm not spending one more linden on skins or skin enhancements that are only offered as appliers.

[Fionalein]

8 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

With BoM coming this will be much easier to do.

That's the point - "coming" - the thing is not here yet - customers don't wanna buy "for possible future use" they want to use it NAOW!

They will be there next skin fair - given SL managed to release BOM until then, that is ...

 

Edited March 7, 2019 by Fionalein

[Blush Bravin]

LOL .. that's a year away. Considering Vir's recent post, today, in the other thread, it looks like BoM is now on the fast track. 

7 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

That's the point - "coming" - the thing is not here yet - customers don't wanna buy "for possible future use" they want to use it NAOW!

This is why adding system layers to the newly released applier packages would have been a smart move, IMO. I know I'm not the only one waiting to spend my money for things I can use with BoM.  

I totally understand them waiting to update inventory of previously released merchandise. I'm just talking about all these new skins being released today.

Edited March 7, 2019 by Blush Bravin

[LittleMe Jewell]

I've been finding more and more makeup packages that are including BoM layers, so I was hoping the trend would continue with the Skin Fair.  Sad to hear that is not to be the case.

[Chic Aeon]

8 hours ago, Syn Anatine said:

Not trying to hijack your topic, but events as a whole seem to be taking a nosedive.

I admit, I spent 20k+L per arcade for YEARS. Keyword, spent. I was *stoked* for this months arcade. Went there, and left.
Total amount of Linden spent: 0.
Literally 0.

Creativity is going down the drain, its the same old same old at ANY type of event.
You just named another symptom of it. Creators being like sheep and moving from one fad to the other. At this point you either dev for mesh bodies or make mesh or you won't even get into an event.

Or has anyone seen any sculpt works presented at any events lately?

If you go to events you either get to look like a harlot or you add more of the same looking furniture to your home that you already have 32432 alternative but incredibly similar designs in your inventory.

/end rant

I have some Skin Fair comments but wanted to say that I agree with your comments.

I have gone from nine events to one as a creator and I have to say that the last six months IN GENERAL have had events on the downslide even looking as a blogger.  [ I just deleted some lines there are I have no PROOF so keeping quite] but it is easy to see that many creators aren't all that enthused about creating lately.  

Happily THIS month seemed better  at the events that I watch (and I agree that The Arcade was pretty boring with lots of folks that I had never EVER heard of and some odd things -- I bought one item from D-Lab off the Marketplace at a good price; the extent of my Arcade shopping) were BETTER this month.  I had tons of well made things to feature from Cosmopolitan and took some photos in front of backdrops at other events -- shades of my first years of blogging LOL.

This has been depressing me for awhile (both as a creator and as a blogger) and my personal answer was to cut back on events big time AND to simply make what I want to make (often pretty niche) and THEN sell at the event I am still in.  That works for me on so many levels and indeed most of my long term selling items were things that I made because "I" wanted and needed them. 

I could go on but this IS Blush's thread on BOM LOL.   So here are my thoughts on that.

I don't think designers IN GENERAL are going to hop onto the bandwagon until Maitreya and other top body and head makers update their items to BOM.  Creators need to SELL things and most folks are not looking at BOM yet.  So patience is key. 

I haven't been to Skin Fair having been disappointed with the current "fairs" of the last years. I remember too well the OLD Skin Fair which I loved. These latest ones (not by the same folks as far as I know) are NOT the same. They are very boring  --- that vanilla event set ups and nothing really to look at so far as the build goes and stalls filled with things that often have almost nothing to do with SKINS.

To be FAIR, I haven't been to this year's Fair and didn't even know it was happening or on the horizon. So I will likely go over to look eventually but I am not expecting much. Too many great memories of Fairs of the past. 

OK that was a short TOME for me LOL.  I DID actually talk to a lot of RL folks today as well as some virtual so not sure why I am so chattily philosophical this eve. 

Edited March 8, 2019 by Chic Aeon

[Chic Aeon]

4 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

Or has anyone seen any sculpt works presented at any events lately?

Yes, fantastic and fast loading tree from ---- gotta go look and see ---- [ ROIRO - RasenTree Type-01 (FATPACK)]   at 4 land impact at BIG size and loads fast. I replaced many of my trees at LEA6 with this tree. 

But "no" very few sculpts around and most "second tier" events require "original mesh" (no comment on that part :D).   

[Shudo]

10 hours ago, Blush Bravin said:

LOL .. that's a year away. Considering Vir's recent post, today, in the other thread, it looks like BoM is now on the fast track. 

So soon instead of soon(tm)?

I hope so, but like Last Names and grid wide experiences... I think Oz set the delivery dates.

Edited March 8, 2019 by Shudo

[Bitsy Buccaneer]

12 hours ago, Blush Bravin said:

None of the ones I actually cammed had system layers available.

Good to know I may as well avoid it, not having a mesh head or being remotely interested in wearing one. Thanks Blush for saving me the frustration and let down of finding out for myself.

[Alyona Su]

9 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

I don't think designers IN GENERAL are going to hop onto the bandwagon until Maitreya and other top body and head makers update their items to BOM.  Creators need to SELL things and most folks are not looking at BOM yet.

Then these (skin) designers are idiots. The exact same texture they use to create an applier can be used to create a system skin. What, two, maybe three clicks?

The good news is that there are still a bazillion system skins and outfits, that still look awesome, on the market place from before the meshyness of SL. I see a resurgence in those people's sales coming as people rediscover (and many for the first time) just how good much of that stuff is.

Edited March 8, 2019 by Alyona Su

[So Whimsy]

9 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

Yes, fantastic and fast loading tree from ---- gotta go look and see ---- [ ROIRO - RasenTree Type-01 (FATPACK)]   at 4 land impact at BIG size and loads fast. I replaced many of my trees at LEA6 with this tree. 

But "no" very few sculpts around and most "second tier" events require "original mesh" (no comment on that part :D).   

That is what we need more of. I get that mesh is great in many ways, but when it comes to lanscaping I still prefer sculpts, simply for the fact that you can resize a simple rock with a fern plant to huge and its still 2 prim instead of like...40 if it were mesh.

 

On the topic of BOM, I don't understand why merchants won't pre-emptively put system layers with their appliers. As far as I understand it a system layer isn't made on an entirely different map so creators won't have to redraw everything, am I correct in that belief? If I am, then why not just plop a system layers in with BOM on the horizon? It would save them a lot of work once it does come out because then they'd already have a good amount of products up to date as opposed to needing to go back and updating every single skin they made?

Or is my logical there faulty?

[Blush Bravin]

1 hour ago, Syn Anatine said:

That is what we need more of. I get that mesh is great in many ways, but when it comes to lanscaping I still prefer sculpts, simply for the fact that you can resize a simple rock with a fern plant to huge and its still 2 prim instead of like...40 if it were mesh.

The LI for sculpts is being reworked and soon will be as costly or near as costly as any mesh. So use sculpts while you can because the times are a changin'.

[Blush Bravin]

1 hour ago, Syn Anatine said:

On the topic of BOM, I don't understand why merchants won't pre-emptively put system layers with their appliers. As far as I understand it a system layer isn't made on an entirely different map so creators won't have to redraw everything, am I correct in that belief? If I am, then why not just plop a system layers in with BOM on the horizon? It would save them a lot of work once it does come out because then they'd already have a good amount of products up to date as opposed to needing to go back and updating every single skin they made?

Or is my logical there faulty?

While mesh bodies and heads typically all use the SLUV that doesn't mean everything lines up the same from one head/body to another head/body. That's why Omega isn't the one size fits all every time solution for using appliers across bodies/heads. When I make seamed stockings I line up the seams on each body individually. At one time I tried making appliers for multiple bodies. Some were easy and some were downright impossible. So, I ended up deciding to just make for Maitreya .. but ....BUT with BoM I've had to start making system tattoos for my stockings. Will the seams line up just because you can use one of my tattoo layers on whatever BoM enabled body you use? Probably not.  Back in the old days we really didn't make demos much for system layer clothing, but now with BoM and mesh bodies having demos will be a must. 

I am dreading going back and updating all my applier only packages with system layers, but it's something I will have to do. All my recent releases have system layers in them. I certainly want to add those layers while it's easy and not go back and have to deal with it later. That's why I'm so surprised not to see system layers added to the skin packages at Skin Fair this year. 

@Bitsy Buccaneer I did not check each and every booth at Skin Fair so there may be system skins there. I would not skip it completely based on my report. I basically checked the skinners that I already buy from .. my list might be totally different than yours.  

[Chic Aeon]

51 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

The LI for sculpts is being reworked and soon will be as costly or near as costly as any mesh. So use sculpts while you can because the times are a changin'.

Last I read (I believe it was a meeting post on Inara's blog) that reworking of the land impact has been -- let's say downgraded and is no longer being actively worked on. I was disappointed.   

I DO agree with many that mesh "can" be way better than sculpts simply because of the loading factors. For example those land sculpts that take forever to load with the newly arrived avatar standing "inside" it seemingly trapped and drowning while it does. HATE THAT!  But, I do realize that how well a sculpt works is on line with how well a mesh works. All about the creator and how well they created.  

 

[Blush Bravin]

4 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

Last I read (I believe it was a meeting post on Inara's blog) that reworking of the land impact has been -- let's say downgraded and is no longer being actively worked on. I was disappointed.   

Can you link that article? 

[Chic Aeon]

11 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

Can you link that article? 

I would if I knew where it was, but sorry. Maybe @Inara Pey can confirm and link. I think it was fairly recently from a meeting that was talking about status of projects. And of course I could be remembering incorrectly where I saw that mentioned, but can't think of anywhere else it would have been.   

I will take a quick look and see if I can find. You and I BOTH know that The Lab's plans change readily and things at the top of the list move to the bottom.  

Nope, sorry. She posts a LOT every day   I think it would be in this sub-area of the blog, but no guarantees.   https://modemworld.me/tag/content-creation/

Good luck!!!

Maybe someone else in the know can remember, always a chance!

 

 

[Blush Bravin]

14 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

I would if I knew where it was, but sorry. Maybe @Inara Pey can confirm and link. I think it was fairly recently from a meeting that was talking about status of projects. And of course I could be remembering incorrectly where I saw that mentioned, but can't think of anywhere else it would have been.   

I will take a quick look and see if I can find. You and I BOTH know that The Lab's plans change readily and things at the top of the list move to the bottom.  

Nope, sorry. She posts a LOT every day   I think it would be in this sub-area of the blog, but no guarantees.   https://modemworld.me/tag/content-creation/

Good luck!!!

Maybe someone else in the know can remember, always a chance!

 

 

From https://modemworld.me/2019/01/11/2019-sl-user-groups-2-1-content-creation/

 ARCTAN

ARCTan is the code-name for the project to re-evaluate object and avatar rendering costs to make them more reflective of the actual impact of rendering both, which it is hoped will also help correct some inherent negative incentives for creating optimised content (e.g. with regards to generating LOD models with mesh). This project has been on a slow burn through 2018, but is due to resume in 2019 – although when is still to be determined.

That's the January 11, 2019 meeting. So it is in slow-mow but I think it's still a go. That's why I said enjoy it while you can.  

 

Edited March 8, 2019 by Blush Bravin

[Chic Aeon]

6 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

From https://modemworld.me/2019/01/11/2019-sl-user-groups-2-1-content-creation/

 ARCTAN

ARCTan is the code-name for the project to re-evaluate object and avatar rendering costs to make them more reflective of the actual impact of rendering both, which it is hoped will also help correct some inherent negative incentives for creating optimised content (e.g. with regards to generating LOD models with mesh). This project has been on a slow burn through 2018, but is due to resume in 2019 – although when is still to be determined.

That's the January 11, 2019 meeting. So it is in slow-mow but I think it's still a go. That's why I said enjoy it while you can.  

 

Good for you. I couldn't remember the Project name.  LOL.  YOUR reading of Inara's text and MY reading of Inara's text doesn't seem to be exact (laughing a lot here).  Considering how long things take that are ON the "fast track" I read "due to be resumed in 2019 but not determined" as dropping way down the list below the things that are discussed at the meetings most often ^^.  And they usually take years -- or at least more than one -- to come to fruition.  So maybe 2022?   

 

 

[Blush Bravin]

2 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

Good for you. I couldn't remember the Project name.  LOL.  YOUR reading of Inara's text and MY reading of Inara's text doesn't seem to be exact (laughing a lot here).  Considering how long things take that are ON the "fast track" I read "due to be resumed in 2019 but not determined" as dropping way down the list below the things that are discussed at the meetings most often ^^.  And they usually take years -- or at least more than one -- to come to fruition.  So maybe 2022?   

 

 

Yeah, I have no idea when we'll see it. Seems like two years we've been waiting on BoM, but maybe I'm just anxious and it just seems that long.

[Cesartje]

14 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

Yeah, I have no idea when we'll see it. Seems like two years we've been waiting on BoM, but maybe I'm just anxious and it just seems that long.

I am anxious as well, I am happy I did not get rid of my classic skins, and the ability to add multiple layers without a glitch as we used to is awesome!

[Inara Pey]

On 3/8/2019 at 3:40 PM, Blush Bravin said:

Can you link that article? 

The best place to look in my blog for SL tech news (summaries of user group meetings) is at:

Simulator + scripting news: https://modemworld.me/tag/simulator-user-group/  - this is all things SL simulator related, and updates on the SL viewer. Covers simulator deployments, major issues / outages / simultor-side projects. These are generally weekly reports.

Viewer and TPV-related updates: https://modemworld.me/tag/tpv-developer-meetings/ - these primarily covers LL projects as they impact TPVs - so general viewer projects, simulator changes that require viewer updates, projects like ARCTan (the updates to the rendering complexity calculations, which is currently on hold, but due to resume "pretty soon now (TM)". These reports are generally fortnightly (as is the meeting).

Content Creation UG meetings: https://modemworld.me/tag/content-creation/ - current content creation related projects. These reports are generally weekly.

Due to the nature of some discussions / projects, there can be a certain amount of cross-posting between categories.

Hope that helps.

[LittleMe Jewell]

Not only were the skin creators not jumping on the BoM wagon at the Skin Fair, but even most of the creators that still create system layers of their skin and makeup were not offering system layer versions of things at the fair.   Assuming the 'Heads Supporting' decals were accurate, there were exactly 4 merchants offering system layers.  One was for tattoos, one was a drag queen makeup store, one was skins, and one was everyday female makeup. Yet there were quite a few creators at the fair that still produce system layer skin and makeup at their main stores.  They just chose not to do those offerings at the Skin Fair for some reason.

I was highly disappointed.