Please let us see bots.

[Selene Gregoire]

4 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

My point is, if it were a private island region (not mainland), how could a resident with their own private island region blame someone else with their own private island region for causing lag with bots?

Read what I quoted again.

Quote

in fact a single server process can host multiple regions.

Regions/sims can be on the same server. If one region is using more resources than others... do I really need to go into what amounts to the same thing?

[Selene Gregoire]

3 hours ago, Blush Bravin said:

I struggle with the transition to using region instead of sim. But I am doing my best to make the change. I think having Patch respond to one of my posts as, "What's a sim?" did the trick for me. 

Next time just point him to the section on the wiki I quoted. 

[Love Zhaoying]

20 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

Regions/sims can be on the same server. If one region is using more resources than others... do I really need to go into what amounts to the same thing?

Yes, I was aware that multiple regions share the same server. Can you tell when your region and another’s share the same server? That’s what I was getting at, sorry.

[Blush Bravin]

5 hours ago, Selene Gregoire said:

A named 256 m x 256 m (65,536 m²) area hosted by a single simulator process (sim). In common usage, the term "simulator" or "sim" may also refer to a region, but in fact a single server process can host multiple regions. They can be flagged as General, Moderate, or Adult.

 

27 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

Next time just point him to the section on the wiki I quoted. 

When I read the statement you posted, I don't get the same meaning you do. When it says, "but in fact" to me it means but really it's this not the prior thing. So I read it like this: 

In common usage, the term "simulator" or "sim" may also refer to a region, but in fact really a single server process sim can host multiple regions. I took it as correcting the misuse of the term.  

But we know what people mean when they use the term. Whether someone calls gasoline gas or petro we get the meaning .. right?

[Parhelion Palou]

On 2/26/2019 at 3:53 PM, CoffeeDujour said:

Bots .. lets have them shown on the map in a different color, keep the green dot for real people, this is a social platform, let us at least see where the real people are.

If LL was ever crazy enough to implement this, I'd see if I could register myself as a bot. People would think there's a new breed of illogical bots wandering around.

[Selene Gregoire]

1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Yes, I was aware that multiple regions share the same server. Can you tell when your region and another’s share the same server? That’s what I was getting at, sorry.

In the past you could get that info from LL. I don't know about now and I don't know if there is a way to tell for certain other than asking LL.

[Selene Gregoire]

1 hour ago, Blush Bravin said:

 

When I read the statement you posted, I don't get the same meaning you do. When it says, "but in fact" to me it means but really it's this not the prior thing. So I read it like this: 

In common usage, the term "simulator" or "sim" may also refer to a region, but in fact really a single server process sim can host multiple regions. I took it as correcting the misuse of the term.  

But we know what people mean when they use the term. Whether someone calls gasoline gas or petro we get the meaning .. right?

Pretty much.

What it is saying is that each simulator process (server) can host more than one region. An estate, which is made up of several sims/regions, may have all or part of the sims/regions hosted on the same server. Makes more sense to do that than have say a 10 sim/region estate scattered across two or more servers.

Residents were calling them sims long before LL decided the proper term was regions.

[Blush Bravin]

10 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

Residents were calling them sims long before LL decided the proper term was regions.

For as long as I can remember LL has referred to them as regions. When we log in the progress bar says connecting to region. The map refers to region. I can't remember anything in the UI that refers to sims. I know residents have used the term sim, but I still think it's a mistake. Honestly, I now prefer region because I think it's a better description of the area rather than calling it a sim. So, I guess that's why I'm motivated to change my mindset to using region. I still make mistakes and say sim when I want to say region, but I'm getting better about it.

And I apologize for keeping this derail going. I'll stop.  

[LittleMe Jewell]

9 hours ago, CoffeeDujour said:

Oblivious to the silencing effect a parcel stacked full of bots has.

No one else will want to hang out on that sim, no one will move in or make a home, no one will set up shop or start a club and everyone who has land is left holding onto it with a choice to either take a massive loss or wait the bot farmer out.

Hmmm, so if I leave all my alts logged on all the time, I might end up with an empty sim all to myself?  

 

*wonders if it is worth the possible reprimand*

[Fionalein]

languages evolve while getting used, calling some common use of a word "wrong" is fighting windmills - true LL calls them regions, ... but back to topic, LL also calls them scripted agents, ...

[Selene Gregoire]

1 hour ago, Blush Bravin said:

For as long as I can remember LL has referred to them as regions. When we log in the progress bar says connecting to region. The map refers to region. I can't remember anything in the UI that refers to sims. I know residents have used the term sim, but I still think it's a mistake. Honestly, I now prefer region because I think it's a better description of the area rather than calling it a sim. So, I guess that's why I'm motivated to change my mindset to using region. I still make mistakes and say sim when I want to say region, but I'm getting better about it.

And I apologize for keeping this derail going. I'll stop.  

Not saying it isn't a mistake. Just saying that since I've been a resident (2004) everyone I encountered called them sims until fairly recently.

[LittleMe Jewell]

2 hours ago, Selene Gregoire said:

Not saying it isn't a mistake. Just saying that since I've been a resident (2004) everyone I encountered called them sims until fairly recently.

I still call them sims - ingrained habit from too many years of using that term

[Selene Gregoire]

2 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

I still call them sims - ingrained habit from too many years of using that term

Not a habit I'm concerned about breaking. On the "bad habits to break" list (in order of importance), it's pretty much at the very bottom.

[Shudo]

4 hours ago, Blush Bravin said:

Honestly, I now prefer region because I think it's a better description of the area rather than calling it a sim.

Me too. Sims are:

Which of course is trademarked, so the Lab likely were "asked gently" to "plz stop using our IP as a term in your documentation kthnzbai".

[Hintswen Guardian]

6 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

*wonders if it is worth the possible reprimand*

What possible reprimand?

[Phil Deakins]

19 hours ago, kali Wylder said:

I don't think all bots have to be run by a program.  My alts that are registered as bots are not. 

Bots do have to be run by a programme to be called bots. LL calls them 'scripted agent', which means that the avatar is run by a programme, and not a person. Yours are not bots/scripted-agents at all unless they do things automatically. The Linden who told you to register them got it wrong.

[Blush Bravin]

'Scripted Agent' is our term to describe a Second Life account that is operated by a program rather than by a real person. These are often called 'Bots' by residents and are automated avatars that perform specific tasks inworld, generally without any human intervention. There are Bots that manage Land tasks and Bots that model clothing in stores.

My 'bots' were my alts who used nothing more than a run-of-the-mill AO while standing on a pose stand. There is no need for special scripts to make an avatar a scripted agent. Certainly you can use any kind of scripts you want but the same scripts can be used by a human operated avatar and not be registered as a scripted agent. The main point here is not the scripts involved but the registering of the account.

added: For those who have never played TE let me give a little background and why those who use multiple alt accounts to play it most likely should have those alts registered as bots (scripted agents). I played TE for a short period of time and have direct experience with the game and the culture that goes along with it. There are many, MANY, who leave their alts logged in while not attended with the game running collecting gold. The benefits are much better if you monitor the game while it runs to respond to the prompts but it is not necessary and especially not necessary when you are running multiple alts at the same time. It's rather common for people to leave those alts on while they sleep at night or go to work RL. 

Edited March 13, 2019 by Blush Bravin
added info on Tiny Empires game

[kali Wylder]

5 hours ago, Blush Bravin said:

'Scripted Agent' is our term to describe a Second Life account that is operated by a program rather than by a real person. These are often called 'Bots' by residents and are automated avatars that perform specific tasks inworld, generally without any human intervention. There are Bots that manage Land tasks and Bots that model clothing in stores.

My 'bots' were my alts who used nothing more than a run-of-the-mill AO while standing on a pose stand. There is no need for special scripts to make an avatar a scripted agent. Certainly you can use any kind of scripts you want but the same scripts can be used by a human operated avatar and not be registered as a scripted agent. The main point here is not the scripts involved but the registering of the account.

added: For those who have never played TE let me give a little background and why those who use multiple alt accounts to play it most likely should have those alts registered as bots (scripted agents). I played TE for a short period of time and have direct experience with the game and the culture that goes along with it. There are many, MANY, who leave their alts logged in while not attended with the game running collecting gold. The benefits are much better if you monitor the game while it runs to respond to the prompts but it is not necessary and especially not necessary when you are running multiple alts at the same time. It's rather common for people to leave those alts on while they sleep at night or go to work RL. 

That's all true except they time out after a half hour. so you have to respond to the prompts at least once per half hour. I generally aim to answer in October because they all get a prompt in October and sometimes they get extra money if they answer the prompt correctly but even a wrong answer will keep you from timing out. I don't run them at night when I'm sleeping, I run them during the day while I'm at work since I work at home and I have 3 monitors on my desk. If work is busy then I time out more often. It's illegal to use a scripted agent to play TE, that is one of the rules, you have to be a human so the time out rules apply and keep the game fair.

[Blush Bravin]

1 hour ago, kali Wylder said:

That's all true except they time out after a half hour. so you have to respond to the prompts at least once per half hour. I generally aim to answer in October because they all get a prompt in October and sometimes they get extra money if they answer the prompt correctly but even a wrong answer will keep you from timing out. I don't run them at night when I'm sleeping, I run them during the day while I'm at work since I work at home and I have 3 monitors on my desk. If work is busy then I time out more often. It's illegal to use a scripted agent to play TE, that is one of the rules, you have to be a human so the time out rules apply and keep the game fair.

There is a way to keep them from timing out. I don't remember what I did. Someone in the group showed me how to do it. I haven't played in years. Maybe they've changed it since I played though. 

I thought you had to register those alts as scripted agents as per the Linden who came when the AR was filed. So you don't use those to play TE anymore?

Edited March 14, 2019 by Blush Bravin

[kali Wylder]

On 3/13/2019 at 6:26 PM, Blush Bravin said:

There is a way to keep them from timing out. I don't remember what I did. Someone in the group showed me how to do it. I haven't played in years. Maybe they've changed it since I played though. 

I thought you had to register those alts as scripted agents as per the Linden who came when the AR was filed. So you don't use those to play TE anymore?

Yes, I can' still play with my registered scripted agents, because they are not really scripted agents they are just my alts who are registered that way because you know, reasons.  TE doesn't care what you are registered as and doesn't even know that.  What they care about is whether you are cheating at the game or not.  Using an automated method to keep from timing out is considered cheating. Players who get caught get kicked and banned from the game.

[Blush Bravin]

5 hours ago, kali Wylder said:

Yes, I can' still play with my registered scripted agents, because they are not really scripted agents they are just my alts who are registered that way because you know, reasons.  TE doesn't care what you are registered as and doesn't even know that.  What they care about is whether you are cheating at the game or not.  Using an automated method to keep from timing out is considered cheating. Players who get caught get kicked and banned from the game.

Oh I wasn't suggesting using an automated way to keep from timing out. But now, I'm thinking that since I've played, which was years ago, perhaps this has been changed. There was something in the game HUD that let you keep "playing". Really the only thing that you could do in this state was collect gold. Perhaps it was an exploit and I just didn't know it was. Thankfully I didn't play long and never got accused of cheating, which I'd never do knowingly. 

But to keep this on topic. I would still think that letting your "scripted agents" sit for 30 minutes at a time, with the only interaction being to tap the hud to keep from timing out, and then repeating that behavior all day long is in reality the behavior of a bot.

 

[Phil Deakins]

44 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

I would still think that letting your "scripted agents" sit for 30 minutes at a time, with the only interaction being to tap the hud to keep from timing out, and then repeating that behavior all day long is in reality the behavior of a bot.

It would be the behaviour of a bot, but it wouldn't be a bot. We can all mimic bots, but that doesn't make us bots

[Blush Bravin]

9 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

It would be the behaviour of a bot, but it wouldn't be a bot. We can all mimic bots, but that doesn't make us bots

[Phil Deakins]

Yes but, if it looks like a duck and doesn't quack like a duck, it's not a duck.

If it looks like a bot and isn't operated by a programme, it's not a bot.

Edited March 15, 2019 by Phil Deakins

[Blush Bravin]

35 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

If it looks like a bot and isn't operated by a programme, it's not a bot.

My alts, who were used as models in my shop, had to be registered as bots or I would have been violating TOS by gaming traffic. This is just one example of a bot not being run by a program as mine simply used a pose stand and pose animations. The point is I wasn't monitoring them. They performed a series of movements prompted by the pose stand. Is that a program? Yes, but is it what you'd call a program? I'm not sure.

Do Kali's alts function while unattended? Yes, they do. They collect gold without her doing anything for a given period of time. The HUD times out automatically after a 30 minute period. She can prevent the timeout by interacting with the HUD. And then again for a 30 minute period her alts perform a task, collecting gold, without her monitoring or doing anything with the alts. They collect gold every 3 minutes on their own.

Perhaps your definition of program is too narrow.