Please let us see bots.

[Coffee Pancake]

7 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:

Regardless of what anyone else would like the map to show, it's my world and my imagination, and what I do in it is my business.

Not if you aren't paying for the entire region and depending on exactly what you're doing, any neighboring regions.

Anything else is akin to defecating on the front lawn to keep property values down.

[Lindal Kidd]

IrisParis says she's seeing bots drop in.  Go visit her place, problem solved.

[Phil Deakins]

24 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

Not if you aren't paying for the entire region and depending on exactly what you're doing, any neighboring regions.

Whether or not the whole sim is owned is completely irrelevant. I said that my bots were on my land, and were nobody else's business, which of course, is correct.

In other words, you are mistaken.

[Selene Gregoire]

As long as the bots aren't hogging shared (sim) resources and causing issues for others that own/rent in the same sim, I'm afraid Phil is correct. If Phil owns the whole sim his bots are parked in, there's nothing you can really do about it other than report it to LL and they likely won't do anything. If Phil doesn't own the whole sim, and his bots are using up more than his "fair share" of sim resources, then Phil is in the wrong and LL will do something about it, if you report it.

[Coffee Pancake]

7 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

and LL will do something about it, if you report it.

No, they really wont.

[Phil Deakins]

@Selene Gregoire

You see, that's what I meant. Bots are wrongly seen as negative. The very idea of reporting bots just because they are bots, and may be using more than the land-owner's fair share of sim resources, is sheer stupidity or sheer selfishness. Selfishness because bots are not what the reporter wants in SL, but it's nothing whatsoever to do with he reporter. There really are some stupid users in SL.

 

3 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

No, they really wont.

Of course they won't. There's no reason why they should. They only do things when something is breaking the rules, and not just because some idiot thinks it would be a good idea.

[kali Wylder]

1 hour ago, Selene Gregoire said:

As long as the bots aren't hogging shared (sim) resources and causing issues for others that own/rent in the same sim, I'm afraid Phil is correct. If Phil owns the whole sim his bots are parked in, there's nothing you can really do about it other than report it to LL and they likely won't do anything. If Phil doesn't own the whole sim, and his bots are using up more than his "fair share" of sim resources, then Phil is in the wrong and LL will do something about it, if you report it.

Wrong.  LL considers it a dispute between users and they won't get involved as long as the bots are registered as bots. It happened to me because one of my neighbors AR'd me for my alt army.  LL suspended all my alts until I registered them as bots,  even though they were not bots.  I was allowed to keep 5 unregistered and the rest are now officially bots even though they aren't really. There is no such thing as "fair share" of system resources as far as LL is concerned. Just don't mess with their search stats.

[Selene Gregoire]

4 hours ago, CoffeeDujour said:

No, they really wont.

Granted, it was a few years back when they did something about the bots that were hanging out at my LZ uninvited and unwanted. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Selene Gregoire]

3 hours ago, kali Wylder said:

Wrong.  LL considers it a dispute between users and they won't get involved as long as the bots are registered as bots. It happened to me because one of my neighbors AR'd me for my alt army.  LL suspended all my alts until I registered them as bots,  even though they were not bots.  I was allowed to keep 5 unregistered and the rest are now officially bots even though they aren't really. There is no such thing as "fair share" of system resources as far as LL is concerned. Just don't mess with their search stats.

Sorry. My past experience with it says different. I don't know if any of the harassing bots were registered or not. It made no difference to the harassment. And yes LL will get involved if someone is unnecessarily hogging sim resources. That has also been my experience numerous times. 

Obviously other people's experiences have been different from mine. The reason(s) why could be due to a number of factors.

Edited March 8, 2019 by Selene Gregoire

[Phil Deakins]

13 hours ago, kali Wylder said:

Wrong.  LL considers it a dispute between users and they won't get involved as long as the bots are registered as bots. It happened to me because one of my neighbors AR'd me for my alt army.  LL suspended all my alts until I registered them as bots,  even though they were not bots.  I was allowed to keep 5 unregistered and the rest are now officially bots even though they aren't really. There is no such thing as "fair share" of system resources as far as LL is concerned. Just don't mess with their search stats.

I'm curious about this, and I have some questions.

1. Was your army of alts logged in on land that was set to show is search?

2. What was the purpose of logging in an army of alts?

3. Was each of the alts logged in with a full viewer, a thin text-only viewer, or what?

The reason why I'm curious is because Lindens sometimes get things wrong, and it may be that you weren't breaking any rules, but the Linden thought you were. It can't have been anything to do with sim resources because you were allowed to log them all in, although most of them needed to be registered, so I think it must have been on land that was in search. Which brings up the question, why were 5 allowed? The answer seems to be that the purpose of the army logging in wasn't traffic, so I'm curious as to what the army of alts was logged in for that caused LL to get involved.

 

Edited March 8, 2019 by Phil Deakins

[BilliJo Aldrin]

1 hour ago, Phil Deakins said:

I'm curious about this, and I have some questions.

1. Was your army of alts logged in on land that was set to show is search?

2. What was the purpose of logging in an army of alts?

3. Was each of the alts logged in with a full viewer, a thin text-only viewer, or what?

The reason why I'm curious is because Lindens sometimes get things wrong, and it may be that you weren't breaking any rules, but the Linden thought you were. It can't have been anything to do with sim resources because you were allowed to log them all in, although most of them needed to be registered, so I think it must have been on land that was in search. Which brings up the question, why were 5 allowed? The answer seems to be that the purpose of the army logging in wasn't traffic, so I'm curious as to what the army of alts was logged in for that caused LL to get involved.

 

I'm wondering, Was the army of alts all registered to the same e-mail address? I thought LL rules only allowed 5 alts per e-mail. That might be why the rest were suspended until they were registered as bots

 

[Phil Deakins]

The rule is or was 5 accounts per email, but, if that were the reason, the result wouldn't have been registering them as bots. It would have been cancelling them.

I'm wondering about Tiny Empires. I think that people use multiple accounts for that, don't they? So I'm thinking that kali might have been playing that with an army of alts, or doing something that required multiple alts to do, and doing it on land that's in search. It's all I can come up with that would require most of them to be registered and still allow 5 unregistered ones.

 

15 hours ago, kali Wylder said:

I was allowed to keep 5 unregistered and the rest are now officially bots even though they aren't really.

If the problem was that the army was on land that's in search, then they came under the 'no artifically inflating traffic' rule, even if the purpose was nothing to do with traffic. If that's the case, then it's not that the Linden decided they were actual bots, but declaring them was a workaround that allowed you to continue using them without them artifically inflating the traffic count.

[kali Wylder]

9 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:

I'm curious about this, and I have some questions.

1. Was your army of alts logged in on land that was set to show is search?

2. What was the purpose of logging in an army of alts?

3. Was each of the alts logged in with a full viewer, a thin text-only viewer, or what?

The reason why I'm curious is because Lindens sometimes get things wrong, and it may be that you weren't breaking any rules, but the Linden thought you were. It can't have been anything to do with sim resources because you were allowed to log them all in, although most of them needed to be registered, so I think it must have been on land that was in search. Which brings up the question, why were 5 allowed? The answer seems to be that the purpose of the army logging in wasn't traffic, so I'm curious as to what the army of alts was logged in for that caused LL to get involved.

 

1) It was my private mainland - group owned by me and my first av who both pay premiums and donated our land to the group so as to pay no tier. I've owned it since 2012 and never had any issues with my neighbors until a new rather pushy entitled renter a few plots away started complaining.  I live in Bay City and they have community meetings where I imagine the issue was raised.  A bunch of Bay City Citizens started hovering outside my land and calling me names which i didn't notice at first because my alts use Radegast viewer and I don't monitor local on them since they are all me.  My land was not set to show in search.

2) They play tiny empires.

3) a thin text-only viewer called Radegast

When I finally did notice the folks hovering outside my platform, they had a Linden with them and the Linden was able to enter my land bypassing my security orb which was rather alarming. In fact that was why I noticed because my security orb notified me.

[kali Wylder]

8 hours ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

I'm wondering, Was the army of alts all registered to the same e-mail address? I thought LL rules only allowed 5 alts per e-mail. That might be why the rest were suspended until they were registered as bots

 

no, they have different emails.

[kali Wylder]

7 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:

The rule is or was 5 accounts per email, but, if that were the reason, the result wouldn't have been registering them as bots. It would have been cancelling them.

I'm wondering about Tiny Empires. I think that people use multiple accounts for that, don't they? So I'm thinking that kali might have been playing that with an army of alts, or doing something that required multiple alts to do, and doing it on land that's in search. It's all I can come up with that would require most of them to be registered and still allow 5 unregistered ones.

 

If the problem was that the army was on land that's in search, then they came under the 'no artifically inflating traffic' rule, even if the purpose was nothing to do with traffic. If that's the case, then it's not that the Linden decided they were actual bots, but declaring them was a workaround that allowed you to continue using them without them artifically inflating the traffic count.

Yes, I think that's it.

[Selene Gregoire]

3 hours ago, kali Wylder said:

the Linden was able to enter my land bypassing my security orb which was rather alarming

There is nothing you can do to keep a Linden account from accessing/entering "your land". Personal accounts, yes, Linden accounts, no. Lindens have the law and godmode on their side.

[kali Wylder]

1 hour ago, Selene Gregoire said:

There is nothing you can do to keep a Linden account from accessing/entering "your land". Personal accounts, yes, Linden accounts, no. Lindens have the law and godmode on their side.

Yup, so i learned. Happily this all happened some time ago and the situation was resolved.  The alt army is now mostly bots which doesn't affect their ability to play TE. I moved the army to my Linden home where they continue to play blissfully unaware of anyone around them and there is hardly anyone there to be bothered by them. So my neighbors have no reason to to stalk me or complain about me hogging resources. The Linden told me I didn't have to move them once I'd caved and turned them into bots.  He said that I should not be harassed by my neighbors and that I should AR them if they harassed me. I told him that we were all adults and I'd rather end the conflict peaceably than to escalate it.

[Phil Deakins]

@kali Wylder

In that case, the Linden was flat-out wrong. As I said earlier, they don't know all the rules and sometimes they make decisions according to what they imagine rather than according to actual rules.

I don't know why the other land-owners were complaining. You probably don't know either. But there is, and was, no rule against having many unregistered avatars on land that is not set to show in search. The Linden who dealt with it imagined that there was such a rule, so s/he allowed you to keep all the alts on the land as long as only 5 remained unregistered. That means (a) it wasn't a resources issue, and (b) the Linden didn't know the rules so s/he made a mistake by inventing one.

I came across something very similar years ago when the rules changed on the launch of the adult continent. It's why I sometimes say that some Lindens don't know all the rules and sometimes gets things wrong. I used to have several scantily clad bots on sex beds in my store, so that potential customers could see, and even try, the animations before buying. They were in small cubicles that were out of sight of the main area. Although I sold furniture with sex animations in it, I chose not to join the exodus to the new adult continent.

There had been a long forum discussion with one of the main Lindens concerned with the 'adult' change, in which he said quite clearly what the new rules would be concerning sex and moderate land, including about sex animations in stores on moderate land. So I knew that my bots were not breaking any rules after the 'adult' change. But not all Lindens knew that and, surprise surprise, some interfering nutcase of a busy-body reported my bots - because of the adult animations, not the fact of them being bots. Along comes a Linden and I had to remove them, even though they didn't break any rules. I contacted to that Linden's boss (Harry - great chap!), citing the forum statements, and the bots were restored.

The Linden who dealt with my case didn't know the rules, but the rules were new so maybe he had an excuse - only maybe. The Linden who dealt with your case simply got it completely wrong. He should have known that your avatars were not breaking any rules. And what an idiotic decision s/he made - 'you can keep them all there, but register all but 5'? There's no sense in that at all. S/he was just making it up as s/he went along. S/he certainly wasn't making you comply with any actual rules. If the land was in search, s/he would also have been wrong to allow 5 to be unregistered.

Edited March 9, 2019 by Phil Deakins

[Fionalein]

1 hour ago, Phil Deakins said:

@kali Wylder

In that case, the Linden was flat-out wrong.

... [WALL OF TEXT] ...

They were? You forgot the most important rule: They can change the rules and restrict your access any time when they come to the conclusion it might impede the service they offer otherwise.

Edited March 9, 2019 by Fionalein

[Love Zhaoying]

I came here looking to see butts and was disappointed.

[Christhiana]

So if I understood correctly, you have a 1024(?)  plot on mainland that you loaded with an army of alts and you don't consider that unfair use of resources? A mainland sim only holds a max of 40 avatars you know....

[Phil Deakins]

2 hours ago, Fionalein said:

They were? You forgot the most important rule: They can change the rules and restrict your access any time when they come to the conclusion it might impede the service they offer otherwise.

No they can't. And, in this case, it doesn't apply even if they could, because all the avatars continued to be allowed to be there, so they weren't judged to be impeding any services.

Edited March 9, 2019 by Phil Deakins

[Phil Deakins]

2 hours ago, Christhiana said:

So if I understood correctly, you have a 1024(?)  plot on mainland that you loaded with an army of alts and you don't consider that unfair use of resources? A mainland sim only holds a max of 40 avatars you know....

If you are addressing kali, then you are mistaken. The Linden who dealt with it considered that all the avatars were perfectly ok to be there and not using an "unfair use of resources". That's why they all continued to be there with his/her blessing.

ETA: All this "unfair use of resources" stuff that often gets spouted is usually garbage. It sometimes applies, though not in this case, but it's usually just silly people spouting the silly garbage that they've seen other silly people spout.

Edited March 9, 2019 by Phil Deakins

[Phil Deakins]

2 hours ago, Christhiana said:

So if I understood correctly, you have a 1024(?)  plot on mainland that you loaded with an army of alts and you don't consider that unfair use of resources? A mainland sim only holds a max of 40 avatars you know....

Another point about your post...

If everyone took your post to heart, then a mainland 1024 plot owner wouldn't even be able to have a guest visit, because, by being there him/herself, s/he's already using more than her fair share of avatars for the sim, so having a guest over would be seriously criminal.

See what I mean about citing the "unfair use of resources"?

Edited March 9, 2019 by Phil Deakins

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

Another point about your post...

If everyone took your post to heart, then a mainland 1024 plot owner wouldn't even be able to have a guest visit, because, by being there him/herself, s/he's already using more than her fair share of avatars for the sim, so having a guest over would be seriously criminal.

See what I mean about citing the "unfair use of resources"?

Your logic is not good. Just because “max avatars on parcel” is bad, doesn’t mean “more than one” is bad. Christians said nothing like what you inferred. Good job!