Collaborative design experiment in Second Life

[AlinaNazmeeva]

Hi everyone, 

I am Alina and I have been in SL for a few months.

Currently I am working on my Masters thesis in Architecture, focusing on research of social spaces in virtual worlds. I have been thinking of buying land in Second Life to collaboratively design it with the residents ( if someone is on board). I want this land to be open and shared, so anyone in the group, affiliated with the land, can create anything they want there. 

I really want  to make a nice space to anyone to hang out and curious to hear any suggestions related to this proposal. Would you be interested in collaboratively designing social/community space in SL with other residents? 

 

 

 

 

[Ethan Paslong]

23 minutes ago, AlinaNazmeeva said:

 I want this land to be open and shared, so anyone in the group, affiliated with the land, can create anything they want there.

you know we have those already?.. it's called a sandbox

23 minutes ago, AlinaNazmeeva said:

I have been thinking of buying land in Second Life to collaboratively design it with the residents ( if someone is on board).

this is of course always possible.. any thoughts about the size of land you need, rules who when where... and payment?
With a handfull builders you'd already need a quite substantial parcel size ...with the costs in rent or tier (and purchase price if it's mainland)
You need in fact more than one parcel, if you plan a community space you won't like it when people start rezzing their work at the campfire or clubhouse or "funny"members to fill it with auto rezzing griefer stuff.

 

[AlinaNazmeeva]

10 minutes ago, Ethan Paslong said:

you know we have those already?.. it's called a sandbox

Yes, but I want the space to stay and be used by the people after it is designed!

10 minutes ago, Ethan Paslong said:

this is of course always possible.. any thoughts about the size of land you need, rules who when where... and payment?
With a handfull builders you'd already need a quite substantial parcel size ...with the costs in rent or tier (and purchase price if it's mainland)
You need in fact more than one parcel, if you plan a community space you won't like it when people start rezzing their work at the campfire or clubhouse or "funny"members to fill it with auto rezzing griefer stuff.

 

Agree, and the land size is something to decide collaboratively with the participants, but also for me as a mediator of the process. Since I am running this collaboration, I will be in charge of purchasing the land ( the size is TBD, depending on my budget and if I can find the members for the experiment) and managing the group integrity (so there are no funny members who would destroy other participants' designs). I wanna be friends or at least get to know a little bit the people who will participate, so maybe I would chat with everyone before confirming the membership. Maybe that could prevent griefers.. 

Regarding the design: here it is a bit tricky, but I have a few ideas of how it can be possible to everyone to be able to express themselves, but also to produce a cohesive space and meaningful spatial experience. What I have in mind includes a few rounds of experiments for emergent design where there is a gradient between personal identity spaces and shared/collective identity spaces. That would include additive and subdivision-like first steps in design, and different levels and scales of collaboration among the members. I hope it does not sound too convoluted. 

Another aspect: I don't want this experiment to take up to much time from the members, so I need to figure out if it is possible to somehow make it relatively simple and fun. The key component here is a collaboration among members and the space that could be useful and meaningful for the community.

 

[Chic Aeon]

Two things:

"group integrity (so there are no funny members who would destroy other participants' designs)."   

As long as group members do not have the ability to EDIT other people's objects (as in the friends tab and choices of just how friendly you are) I don't see this as a huge issue. Group members (except maybe two who "police") shouldn't be able to move or delete or send back items from others.  They could of course put things on top of other builds which would later have to be removed -- and there are other greifing methods, but hopefully this won't be a big deal.

"Another aspect: I don't want this experiment to take up to much time from the members, so I need to figure out if it is possible to somehow make it relatively simple and fun. The key component here is a collaboration among members and the space that could be useful and meaningful for the community."

I strongly suggest that you make your build a PRIM build (not mesh and hopefully not too many sculpts).  This would keep it faster and simpler and open up the collaboration to lots more people.     

 

Good luck with your project.  

@AlinaNazmeeva

Edited February 25, 2019 by Chic Aeon

[Bitsy Buccaneer]

This sounds like it could be a really interesting community to be a part of, at least if there's anything going on during conventional UK hours.

(Well, it would still be interesting for other people if it was going on while we're asleep )

Edited February 25, 2019 by Bitsy Buccaneer

[AlinaNazmeeva]

@Chic Aeon

@Bitsy Buccaneer

Thank you so much for your feedback and interest!

5 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

As long as group members do not have the ability to EDIT other people's objects (as in the friends tab and choices of just how friendly you are) I don't see this as a huge issue. Group members (except maybe two who "police") shouldn't be able to move or delete or send back items from others.  They could of course put things on top of other builds which would later have to be removed -- and there are other greifing methods, but hopefully this won't be a big deal.

5 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

I strongly suggest that you make your build a PRIM build (not mesh and hopefully not too many sculpts).  This would keep it faster and simpler and open up the collaboration to lots more people.     

I definitely need to do more research to understand the workflow and how the content is being placed/manipulated in SL.                                                                                                                  I will be working on the description and the details of the project during next couple of weeks, and will post it here as well for the further discussion. 

' 

2 hours ago, Bitsy Buccaneer said:

This sounds like it could be a really interesting community to be a part of, at least if there's anything going on during conventional UK hours.

(Well, it would still be interesting for other people if it was going on while we're asleep )

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   The hours is a good point to consider. How can everyone collaborate if not everyone is present on the land simultaneously? Maybe we can leave some spatial clues on the site, or leave a note for those who is absent during the change.  Or each new member has to complete another creator's part, so each member designs a space or an artifact that is a spatial continuation of the artifact/space designed by the previous creator. Many ideas, time to get to work!

[Chic Aeon]

45 minutes ago, AlinaNazmeeva said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     Or each new member has to complete another creator's part, so each member designs a space or an artifact that is a spatial continuation of the artifact/space designed by the previous creator. Many ideas, time to get to work!

Just wanted to note that pretty much this exact idea was tried at LEA a few years ago (Linden Endowment for the Arts sims) and it did NOT work - LOL.   The artists involved were not willing to "add on, change, etc" what had come before.     These were established artists so regular folks may be more inclined, but thought I would throw that in there.  In fact I don't think the exhibition was ever finished. 

 

One thing that DID work very well at LEA (long ago now) was for one person to build the "framework" and the other artists came in and picked a spot within that framework (an area of the sim that they wanted to add to) and did their thing there.  

I think I have an old video of this.  Going to check. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SI4r079zV6U

I became the last "artist" to contribute when I made a machinima (and a story) from their combined works -- wasn't a plan, I was just doinmythang.  It was a very popular exhibit. 

 

It seems like a lot of creative types (and that includes "builders" as well as "artists") don't play all that well with other in creative endeavors. I certainly do not LOL .   So watch out for that if you haven't considered. 

Just some thoughts. Hope it all works out well --- be sure and let us know!!!!

Edited February 26, 2019 by Chic Aeon

[animats]

You might want to talk to the Builder's Brewery people. They have a large sandbox and some other work areas you can use by arrangement, plus people who know how to build things in Second Life.

[Gingir Ghoststar]

This sounds very interesting. 

 

[Kyrah Abattoir]

My recommendation would be to "require" whatver is being built to be purposely built for the experiment, that way you can avoid the folks who will rez a premade thing and waste space.

[AlinaNazmeeva]

Hi everyone!

Thank you  very much for the feedback and interest!

I am almost done with the design of the structure and rules of the project. Additionally, I got my first land and have been experimenting with 3d-modeling and uploading models from different software ( I work in 3dsmax, Cinema4d and Sketchup).

Regarding the land: The land is 5000m2: not so big but should suffice for the first playtest! That in my opinion can work for the group of ~8 people. Based on the results of this test, I could think of the modifications for the larger space.

Regarding the built elements: I propose to create a library of 3d elements which can be used. It will potentially save time and will open the experiment for the people who are not professional builders.

Below is the short description of general logic of the experiment, which I am very happy to share for your comments but also it is time for me to find the people who would be interested in participation.

The experiment itself evolved into a game-like experience: there is a structure, rules and rounds.

Overview:

It is a two-round semi-cooperative game for up to 10 players. You are appropriating space, negotiating with each other over land, claim right of way across other players’ property and design and decorate your own land. Right of way through other players’ property is a cooperatively owned land, shared between the initial owner and the player, who claimed the right of way. Cooperatively owned land has to be designed cooperatively, with the input from all players who has a stake in it.  

Goals: The collective exercise is to design a shared space. Shared space emerges if most of the areas you own are shared with someone else. So, right of way is a shared space. Thus, the collective wins if your property is not only yours. If the site has less than 50% of the total area as shared space, everybody loses. The whole area is successful (everyone wins) if the proportion of shared spaces is larger than the proportion of individually owned spaces. However, there are also two types of the individual winners. First, the participant with the most individually owned land is a winner within the game. The individual landowner who has the least of individually owned land (the one who gave up the most) is a second winner.

During the first round your goal is to acquire as much land as you can. You can’t place your properties adjacent to each other. You can place our property adjacent to other players’ holdings. There is a minimum and a maximum size of the land you can have. Yet the shape/size of the land you own is determined by other players. Each player is assigned a special 'land use' (education, convention, culture, green, entertainment) to help to determine a program for their property.

During the second round you have to connect your discrete properties through the rights of way, and negotiate rights of way for other players across your land. The size of right of way is determined by the shape of the land ( the width of RoW has to be a half of the shortest side of your property).

My goals as a designer: I want to see what kind of space will emerge from social interaction and negotiation. I am interested to see collaboration, emerging from competition. Scarce land and uncomfortable rules become the first trigger for participants to negotiate and to collaborate.

Second Life goal: To have a space which will be used with the community afterwards. Ideally, I imagine it changing and evolving according to the rules after the space is designed during the first experiment.

Any feedback and interest in participation is very much appreciated!!!

Also, last time @Bitsy Buccaneer and @Gingir Ghoststar were interested in participation. Let me know if this is something you would like to be a part of!

 

Edited April 15, 2019 by AlinaNazmeeva

[Bitsy Buccaneer]

I can't this month

On 4/14/2019 at 4:12 PM, AlinaNazmeeva said:

Any feedback and interest in participation is very much appreciated!!!

 

Also, last time @Bitsy Buccaneer and @Gingir Ghoststar were interested in participation. Let me know if this is something you would like to be a part of!

 

I can't for a wee while yet because of other (short-term) commitments but I think I'd like to give it a try. Would you send me a friend request inworld please?

[Mollymews]

i would definitely be interested in attending as an observer, sounds pretty interesting. I am not sure I would make a good player though, as I can be a little bit bossy and I am not sure that this would be a good attribute to have in this type of game

[AlinaNazmeeva]

Hi Mollymews, 

Sure, you are more than welcome to participate as an observer!
I also need more people so I would rather offer you to give it a try as a player: more people with different collaboration styles, more interesting the game. It could make it more exciting! I ran several play-tests with my friends and it was actually the most productive when people from different backgrounds and different work styles were playing. Diversity is the key:) 

Let me know if you would participate as a player! 

1 hour ago, Mollymews said:

i would definitely be interested in attending as an observer, sounds pretty interesting. I am not sure I would make a good player though, as I can be a little bit bossy and I am not sure that this would be a good attribute to have in this type of game

 

 

[AlinaNazmeeva]

17 hours ago, Bitsy Buccaneer said:

Would you send me a friend request inworld please?

Hi Bitsy, 

 

Great to hear from you  Just sent you the request!

[AlinaNazmeeva]

Currently I have 4 participants for the experiment, and I need 5 more 

Also I made a short video, explaining some of the rules and ideas:

 

[Lancewae Barrowstone]

Any update?  

What I envisioned in reading your ideas (which I've just now seen here) was Christopher Alexander's,  A Pattern Language.   You are starting out at the "towns and communities" level and here the patterns are beginning to be laid, such as say, a rigid, grid-like conception coming from doing it all in once with a godlike overview,  or as organic and free-form morphing over time and by necessity of collaborations with the life and the buildings occurring around you and how to fit with that evolution in form of patterns and uses.   This is as any growing community will do over time and necessity.  I found myself thinking oh, I would want to build Miss Pitty Pat's house on PeachTree Street.  It was of course only a dirt lane at that time in Atlanta when the defeated Confederates straggled tragically back into the city past that house wherein Scarlett O'Hara lived with her aunt and stoodon the porch that day to watch in horror.  Oh, how Peachtree Street is different today than when Miss Pitty's bungalow sat and horse buggies passed by.   

But too, A Pattern Language is filled with stunning micro examples of how people, doing just as you envision in your experiment except extended over a span of history,  tended to create organic structures to fit with organic needs and expediencies of any particular time in both for external and internally linked utility and as integrated aesthetically.  Such a uniqueness of living found in that study of Alexander's and the patterns he isolated out of it.  Its a new world today, different ideas and technologies and different organics.  Would be fun to see what you have done so far.  

[SusanPoora]

13 hours ago, Lancewae Barrowstone said:

Any update?  

What I envisioned in reading your ideas (which I've just now seen here) was Christopher Alexander's,  A Pattern Language.   You are starting out at the "towns and communities" level and here the patterns are beginning to be laid, such as say, a rigid, grid-like conception coming from doing it all in once with a godlike overview,  or as organic and free-form morphing over time and by necessity of collaborations with the life and the buildings occurring around you and how to fit with that evolution in form of patterns and uses.   This is as any growing community will do over time and necessity.  I found myself thinking oh, I would want to build Miss Pitty Pat's house on PeachTree Street.  It was of course only a dirt lane at that time in Atlanta when the defeated Confederates straggled tragically back into the city past that house wherein Scarlett O'Hara lived with her aunt and stoodon the porch that day to watch in horror.  Oh, how Peachtree Street is different today than when Miss Pitty's bungalow sat and horse buggies passed by.   

But too, A Pattern Language is filled with stunning micro examples of how people, doing just as you envision in your experiment except extended over a span of history,  tended to create organic structures to fit with organic needs and expediencies of any particular time in both for external and internally linked utility and as integrated aesthetically.  Such a uniqueness of living found in that study of Alexander's and the patterns he isolated out of it.  Its a new world today, different ideas and technologies and different organics.  Would be fun to see what you have done so far.  

I'm interested to hear some updates too.

I'm just researching for answers and puzzling things up. The probable answers to our environmental problems arising in RL can be the collaboration and living as a community I believe, but the 'how' is the main question itself in this era I feel. People have been evolving for some time before this era to express themselves individualistically that, it scares me off that people the aren't giving priority to grow as communities and social circles in the first place; which is a need for humans. Why I'm connecting the environmental issues in RL with these virtual space project? Cause, you can see in SL itself. The banlines and etc etc, it all happens because of the need to be on their own, or per se, to be in private; but might forget that without having a wide range of social interations, life isn't healthy either. Thus, I'm trying to research the brain of RL communities and people, via the virtual spaces. 

And that's why I'd like to hear some updates too. Might help, who knows.

[Eggy UwU]

I would be so interested in doing this or contributing to the idea.

Please let me know if you want anything or ideas!