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Prokofy Neva

Loot Boxes Revisited

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18 minutes ago, Gadget Portal said:

Lootbox: Pay in virtual Actual currency for a chance to win an item from a pre-defined list where some items are lower chance than others. Usually these items are cosmetic, like clothes.

Gacha: Pay in virtual currency for a chance to win an item from a pre-defined list where some items are lower chance than others. Usually these items are cosmetic, like clothes.

Yeah, those I can see how someone would think those are two completely different things.

You buy lootboxes with actual  money. You do not have to ever spend one thin dime to buy anything in SL. And therein lay the biggest difference. RL USD do not have to be spent in order to pay a gatcha. 

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2 minutes ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

You buy lootboxes with actual  money. You do not have to ever spend one thin dime to buy anything in SL. And therein lay the biggest difference. RL USD do not have to be spent in order to pay a gatcha. 

Incorrect.

Lootboxes are almost always purchased with virtual currency. Usually you have to pay for said currency with real money (just like SL) but often you can earn that currency in-game at a drastically reduced rate... Just like SL.

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3 minutes ago, Gadget Portal said:

Incorrect.

Lootboxes are almost always purchased with virtual currency. Usually you have to pay for said currency with real money (just like SL) but often you can earn that currency in-game at a drastically reduced rate... Just like SL.

You can buy the directly with USD in Overwatch, Hearthstones card packs, StarCraft 2, pretty much any Blizzard game that has loot boxes they are paid for with USD, not in game.

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25 minutes ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

Seeing as gatchas were not banned in SL for use by Belgium people... Apparently they are different things. And before you say they aren't, gambling was sorted by state law, not one all encompassing one, so they could easily do the same by country. Minnesota has already made lootboxes 18+ to buy, why hasn't LL implemented that for gatchas if they are the same thing? They did it with the gambling laws in the US. Why haven't they made Minnesotans unable to buy gathcas unless they are 18? Until LL says they are doing something about it, this discussion is moot.  

i keep saying there are no lootboxes in SL and try to bring the conversation back to SL related things like gatchas, just because you think they are the same, doesn't make it so. A car and a truck are both types of motor vehicles but they are very different.

Here's the thing, SL already has in place a system to tell if you are over 18, unlike most MMoRPGs which may have that info but it has no bearing on the game. If you are under 18 you can't get onto A or even M land. All LL would have to do is make sure gathcas are on gambling enabled land. Just like they did with all those card games and games of chance. The US won't make them Illegal. Big game companies pay far too much to lobbyists for that to happen. 

I am not an LL employee nor do I have insight in that process to even asking me any of that is moot.

There is no need to bring this back to SL related, the OP clearly asked if a RL world problem could bleed into SL since the gacha's are the SL equivalent to RL lootboxes. I am not sure why you want to change this thread into something it's not supposed to be.

A car is a car is a car, it doesn't matter what shape it is in, as I have said before, a car has a specific function, driving. So if driving was banned then both that truck and the car would be banned. The same applies to lootboxes and gacha's, they both have the same function (as Gadget posted above).

With the last part I agree and we've finally come to the crux of why this thread was made. How would lootbox bans impact gacha's in SL. You've offered possibly the best solution for this I have seen yet. Since both lootboxes and gacha's are gambling, they should be placed on gambling enabled sim's as that would prevent them from being banned entirely if push came to shove.

Glad we had this discussion.

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8 minutes ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

You can buy the directly with USD in Overwatch, Hearthstones card packs, StarCraft 2, pretty much any Blizzard game that has loot boxes they are paid for with USD, not in game.

Maplestory 2, EOS, Gw2, BDO, Tera -> All lootboxes bought with in game currency.

Many SL'ers use real money to buy Linden to specifically play gacha's, then sell the rare's, convert the linden into USD and cash out the profit. It doesn't matter how many currency hoops you have to jump through.

Like I said before. SL gacha's are worse in that respect as you can make profit in REAL currency from them. Most games do now allow selling the in game gold you earned from selling lootbox items to be converted back into RL cash.

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6 minutes ago, Syn Anatine said:

I am not an LL employee nor do I have insight in that process to even asking me any of that is moot.

Because you said Lootboxes and Gatchas are the same thing. If that is the case than LL needs to change how people from Minnesota are able to pay gatchas as it is illegal for anyone under 18 to buy a lootbox. Seeing as they haven't one would think that the law considers them to be different things. 

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5 minutes ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

Because you said Lootboxes and Gatchas are the same thing.

They are. You have yet to come up with a single way where they differ. It's like you're a broken record shouting the same thing in hopes of other's believing it while not giving any facts. And no, this:

1 hour ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

Because you know EXACTLY what is in a gatcha.

as you posted earlier to Fiona's response is NOT a difference as you claimed it is. Both Lootboxes and Gacha's list their contents in ALL games.

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Syn Anatine said:

They are. You have yet to come up with a single way where they differ. It's like you're a broken record shouting the same thing in hopes of other's believing it while not giving any facts.

If they were exactly the same thing then why wasn't Second Life Gatcha listed in Belgiums list of illegal virtual goods? 

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3 minutes ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

If they were exactly the same thing then why wasn't Second Life Gatcha listed in Belgiums list of illegal virtual goods? 

Why is empty box seller A on the MP banned but empty box seller B on the mp still scamming people?

Why is Griefer A at the info hub banned and why is Griefer B at the info hub not banned?

Perhaps they haven't caught wind of the Gacha problem yet, perhaps it's in the makes, the wheels of politics grind slowly. Lootboxes were banned in belgium after the congress there was notified repeatedly about the problem, if nobody had done that they would still be oblivious to it. There could be many reasons but all of that is just speculation of course.

Back to the car and truck example. If the function was banned but politics only were aware of trucks, then cars should of course be banend too. They just haven't seen any yet.

Edited by Syn Anatine

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29 minutes ago, Syn Anatine said:

Perhaps they haven't caught wind of the Gacha problem yet, perhaps it's in the makes, the wheels of politics grind slowly. Lootboxes were banned in belgium after the congress there was notified repeatedly about the problem, if nobody had done that they would still be oblivious to it. There could be many reasons but all of that is just speculation of course.

Its been a year, they should have added it in by now. If they thought they were the same or even cared. 

Why is it a "Gacha problem?" What is the problem with them? If you don't like them, dont play them.  End of problem. 

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12 minutes ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

What is the problem with them? If you don't like them, dont play them.

But.. but.. I like the items they put in them sometimes! ...

Stopped playing them though. If they do not want to sell their stuff the normal way, I'm not spending my time on it.

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4 hours ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

If they were exactly the same thing then why wasn't Second Life Gatcha listed in Belgiums list of illegal virtual goods? 

Simply because no one has bought SL to their attention probably. They don't go around looking for games to come down on they deal with those reported to them usually by disgruntled buyers who didnt get what they hoped for.

Feel free if you are that confident to bring SL gachas to the awareness of belgium and minnesota however

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Oh lovely, this topic made its way over here ...

Got a gambling addiction? Get help. No seriously, get help.

As for the laws being made in some countries: Each and every one that does so is in need of a serious reality check.

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16 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

? Special laws there?

don't ask me was Drake who made the claim

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4 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

Oh lovely, this topic made its way over here ...

Got a gambling addiction? Get help. No seriously, get help.

As for the laws being made in some countries: Each and every one that does so is in need of a serious reality check.

There ought to be a law against laws that inconvenience us.

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Just now, Love Zhaoying said:

There ought to be a law against laws that inconvenience us.

As amusing as that would be ...

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1 minute ago, Solar Legion said:

As amusing as that would be ...

Or just get rid of all the lawyers, like in that Heinlein novel.

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Grumbling as she feels dragged into an endless argument about something she doesn't really care about, /me says "The difference between SL and most MMoRPGs  is there is no such thing as advancing game play. There's no score in SL You don't win or lose SL.  So that Belgian law has no bearing on SL."

Edited by kali Wylder
ETA I dare somebody to claim to have won the internet
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6 hours ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

You can buy the directly with USD in Overwatch, Hearthstones card packs, StarCraft 2, pretty much any Blizzard game that has loot boxes they are paid for with USD, not in game.

That isn't how it works in all MMOs. Certainly not how it works in STO.

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Just going to leave these here:

https://medium.com/@Rathgrith027_SL/loot-box-legislation-the-grave-concern-for-second-lifes-economy-d41a0dae9ff0

https://www.pcgamer.com/hackers-are-stealing-second-lifes-player-made-lootboxes-and-selling-them-for-profit/

https://nwn.blogs.com/nwn/2018/01/pc-gamer-lootbox-second-life-linden-lab-battlefront.html

https://www.tomsguide.com/us/what-are-loot-boxes-microtransactions,news-26161.html

Quote

In video games, a loot box (also called a loot/prize crate) is a consumable virtual item which can be redeemed to receive a randomized selection of further virtual items, ranging from simple customization options for a player's avatar or character, to game-changing equipment such as weapons and armor. A loot box is typically a form of monetization, with players either buying the boxes directly or receiving the boxes during play and later buying "keys" with which to redeem them. These systems may also be known as gacha (based on gashapon – capsule toys) and integrated into gacha games.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loot_box

 

Edited by Selene Gregoire
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7 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Lute case

4CB9CA9E-B9D3-41D1-BDA1-218C87EFC567.jpeg

Nope, mandoling box - lute boxes loot different and are usually way more expensive - mine cost 300€ you get a lot of lootboxes for a lute box ;)

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1 hour ago, KanryDrago said:

don't ask me was Drake who made the claim

No, i was quoting this.. 

On 2/21/2019 at 8:26 AM, Wulfie Reanimator said:

"Loot boxes" always give you something. Still classified as gambling by multiple countries now. (Netherlands, Belgium, Australia, China, South Korea, Minnesota US)

Some games allow the contents of a loot box to be traded or sold directly for real money (particularly on Steam).

There are third-party sites that allow you to literally bid your loot in order to win something better (or nothing at all).

If you read the thread, Minnesota has made it illegal for anyone under 18 to buy lootboxes in games. 

9 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

That isn't how it works in all MMOs. Certainly not how it works in STO.

I don't believe i said all... I listed the ones that you have to use USD to buy them. However, there is NO way to pay a gatcha machine in SL directly with USD. You MUST convert it to $L. 

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8 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

Nope, mandolin box - lute boxes loot different and are usually way more expensive - mine cost 300€ you get a lot of lootboxes for a lute box ;)

Google image search pops that as a bandurria case. 

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