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Hello,

I got my heart broken and left SL for a few years and came back to a whole new world! I have so much invested in old school primmy clothing, hair, etc. I am dragging my feet on going mesh. I don't mind the expense but it's the whole idea of parting with some of my things that are genuinely antique and made by creators who are no longer inworld. I need someone to educate me on fixed mesh and why I need it. I go places and can't see avatars made of mesh and I was given some alpha masks but when I put them on I'm invisible? I even had to use the Firestorm viewer because my laptop is truly a piece of crap. I understand that excessive prim usage creates lag and nobody likes that but someone PLEASE explain to me why I should go mesh. Are most residents using it now and how do I even begin? I'd love to sell some of my fabulous antique items if anyone can point me in the right direction. Thanks in advance!

Clearskies :)

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If you are happy with your "retro" look, then stick with it. As long as you don't plan on buying new clothes or shoes you will be fine. It is VERY difficult to find any new clothes for legacy bodies since so many people have mesh bodies.  It is a learning curve though so no need to jump right in.  

I doubt there is a big market (or even a small one) for antique clothes. Most of the folks I know tossed them long ago. I do have a guy friend that still has all his MIA (forgot what that stood for -- men in action maybe -- a free gift a week for a year at least). And of course you could only sell things that are transfer -- but many things were long ago.

Good luck and welcome back.  And so far as mesh and mesh bodies go, you ARE somewhat of a newbie. It is quite a different world now :D.

 

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1 hour ago, Clearskies March said:

I am definately NOT a newbie

 

The 'Newbie' designation has to do with the Forums only and is totally dependent on the number of posts you have made here. 

 

2 hours ago, Clearskies March said:

Hello,

I got my heart broken and left SL for a few years and came back to a whole new world! I have so much invested in old school primmy clothing, hair, etc. I am dragging my feet on going mesh. I don't mind the expense but it's the whole idea of parting with some of my things that are genuinely antique and made by creators who are no longer inworld. I need someone to educate me on fixed mesh and why I need it. I go places and can't see avatars made of mesh and I was given some alpha masks but when I put them on I'm invisible? I even had to use the Firestorm viewer because my laptop is truly a piece of crap. I understand that excessive prim usage creates lag and nobody likes that but someone PLEASE explain to me why I should go mesh. Are most residents using it now and how do I even begin? I'd love to sell some of my fabulous antique items if anyone can point me in the right direction. Thanks in advance!

Clearskies :)

Your own usage of mesh vs system/classic avatar should not impact whether or not you can see other people who are wearing mesh bodies.  If you cannot see them, that would indicate a connection issue that is preventing you from rendering them fully -- or possibly some graphics setting causing the problem.

For the alpha masks that you were given, you likely don't need any of them.  Most mesh clothing that comes in Standard sizes (the ones used primarily for system/classic avatars) will come with an alpha that will hide the parts of your body that the mesh is going to cover.  Look for items that show the Classic Avatar symbol:
889476389__SLClassicAvatarClothingPic.png.9642fb5443b626b872470969b8852535.png

Those will be items designed to work with the system/classic body/head/feet/etc...  Many of the mesh clothing sellers do still include the Standard sizes in their packages - they are typically just labeled S, M, L, XS, XL and will not only require using the included alpha, but they may require you to adjust your shape to prevent your body from poking through the clothing.

One of your biggest issues with buying new items will be shoes.  Very few creators still sell shoes for system/classic feet -- Lindy Shoes do and Ellnique Designs still has some in their Outlet.  However, you can also buy mesh feet to wear with your system body.  Slink sells mesh feet separate from their mesh body. Not sure who else might, but there are also some Slink-compatible mesh feet available on the Marketplace.  The mesh feet do look much nicer than the old system feet.  

Another problem will be if you want to change skins.  A dozen or less skin makers currently sell classic/system layer skin.  Although an LL project in the works called Bakes On Mesh (not yet released) has encouraged some of the creators to start including system layers for things again -- skins, makeups, tattoos, clothing layers.   Basically for anything you buy, you want to make sure you see that 'Classic Avatars' symbol - unless you do go ahead and get mesh feet and then you need to see the symbol for the type of feet you get.

As far as mesh heads go, I personally think that is much less important.  I've been back in SL now since early 2017 and while I do now have a mesh body, I'm still using my system/classic head.

 

As to "how do you begin?" -- http://meshbodyaddicts.com/ will have a list of all of the common mesh bodies.  Their reviews are a bit dated, but the list is still fairly accurate, I think.  You will want to pick you demos of the various bodies and try them on to see if you can adjust the shape the way you want for yourself.  You will also have to learn about "appliers" which are basically the mesh equivalent of system layers.  The Mesh Body Addicts website does have some good tutorials for learning a lot of that.  Once your understand appliers, then you'll want to pick up skins to test with your mesh body.  If you stick with your system head, then you'll need a skin seller that provides both system layers for your head to use and mesh body appliers in whatever tone you select.  Be sure to demo, demo, demo. 

It is a lot to learn - don't rush yourself.  

 

Edited by LittleMe Jewell
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I second Chic's advice. Unless you have a partner you want to dress up for or something like that, use an avatar you are happy with.

Except if you do role play of course but that has nothing to do with mesh or not mesh.

 

11 hours ago, Clearskies March said:

I understand that excessive prim usage creates lag and nobody likes that...

A classic avatar will nearly always be less laggy than a mesh avatar, no matter what the render weight numbers claim. There are a couple of well documented errors in the way avatar render complexity is calculated that give fitted mesh a huge "bonus". My rule of thumb is that 50,000 ARC of mesh avatar is about the same as 200,000-300,000 ARC of classic avatar with prim and sculpt attachments when it comes to actual lag. That's a very rough estimate but it should give an idea.

 

Edited by ChinRey
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3 hours ago, ChinRey said:

I second Chic's advice. Unless you have a partner you want to dress up for or something like that, use an avatar you are happy with.

Except if you do role play of course but that has nothing to do with mesh or not mesh.

 

A classic avatar will nearly always be less laggy than a mesh avatar, no matter what the render weight numbers claim. There are a couple of well documented errors in the way avatar render complexity is calculated that give fitted mesh a huge "bonus". My rule of thumb is that 50,000 ARC of mesh avatar is about the same as 200,000-300,000 ARC of classic avatar with prim and sculpt attachments when it comes to actual lag. That's a very rough estimate but it should give an idea.

 

Unless flexi hair, jewelry and dresses is involved, that can give an ARC that goes skyhigh, am I right?

I have tried to wear my pre-mesh Zaara jewelry, and other legacy jewelry, including Donna Flora, and in my experience, the Avatar Rendering Cost for prims is higher than modern mesh.

(Edit) Plus the 1 script pr prim.

Are we really tricked when ARC rises 100 000 when putting on one single attachment?

Edited by Marianne Little
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Welcome back Clearskies.

I was a latecomer to mesh bodies. There are noticeable differences between a classic AV and a mesh one. Lines are smoother, ankles and wrists look like ankles and wrists, and actual toes instead of foot-like blobs. Another new feature is bento. Fingers can move in natural ways and mesh heads allow for more expressions. There are more 'bones' over all so it also allows for things like tails that swish, neko ears that move and resize with your base shapes ear size and wings that move naturally. If you check out the 'How does your Avatar look today' thread, many of the posters are meshed up 😁

While it's true that most clothing makers no longer make system and prim clothing there is good news if you do decide to go mesh. A new feature called bakes on mesh (BoM) is coming down the pike. BoM will allow you to wear those old system clothing on a mesh body.

The main thing that would look horrible on a mesh body are old system skins because the foot will look very weird. Also, newer skins can use 1024 x 1024 textures as opposed to the old 512 x 512. I think that goes for applier clothing as well, which is the closest thing to system clothing.

As for your not seeing mesh, there's two things i can think of that might cause the problem. Is your laptop 32 bit or 64 bit? You'll need to make sure you've downloaded the correct viewer version for your system. You also may need to allocate more cache if you can. On an older system, it may take longer for mesh to rez for you. Can you see mesh buildings or clothing? If you can, then it may just be a matter of waiting for those bodies to finally rez for you.

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I’ve been back a year after a 6 year hiatus. For me the decision ultimately came down to shopping. I love to shop in SL and customize my avi, and there was nothing new being created for my system avi anymore. If you do decide to go the mesh head route, check out Strawberrysingh.com. She had loads of mesh head reviews. She may have contributed to the 7 mesh heads I have bought in the past year. 🥴

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Welcome back Clearskies!

I was in the same boat as you as far as mesh avatars go - and then I decided I'm happy with my system avatar and the options I have for it. I admit that the clothing game is getting a bit more complicated since many creators make things for mesh bodies only, but  have found that with a bit of shape adjustment and the judicious use of alphas (there are a few you can get on the marketplace) I can wear clothing made for a mesh avatar. Also, there is the advantage of shopping in outlets for older things ("old" in terms of Second Life, that is) which include standard sizes. 

I guess it depends what you want out of Second Life. I personally would wait until the bake on mesh comes around, and you'll have the best of both worlds. :)

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13 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

One of your biggest issues with buying new items will be shoes.  Very few creators still sell shoes for system/classic feet -- Lindy Shoes do and Ellnique Designs still has some in their Outlet.  However, you can also buy mesh feet to wear with your system body.  Slink sells mesh feet separate from their mesh body. Not sure who else might, but there are also some Slink-compatible mesh feet available on the Marketplace.  The mesh feet do look much nicer than the old system feet.  

Maitreya also sells a set of mesh feet that work with the classic body. There are tons and tons of Maitreya sized shoes available. Just an fyi if you are thinking of going with mesh feet and not a mesh body.

13 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

As to "how do you begin?" -- http://meshbodyaddicts.com/ will have a list of all of the common mesh bodies.  Their reviews are a bit dated,

Another source of very helpful information is Strawberry Singh's YouTube channel. She has a specific playlist of video tutorials for both mesh bodies and mesh heads. Look about half way down the page for the sub-heading, Second Life Content, https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCE6xvjkOu6wE-wJ-7-1x5bw.

 

Welcome back! I know mesh can be a bit overwhelming but there's lots of help out there. If you do decide to buy a mesh body, I suggest you join the group of whichever body you go with, as those groups offer invaluable help learning how to use the mesh. Good luck!

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1 hour ago, Marianne Little said:

Unless flexi hair, jewelry and dresses is involved, that can give an ARC that goes skyhigh, am I right?

Yes and no. All those factors are included in the ARC calculation so they show up in that number.

Fitted mesh on the other hand, adds several factors that affects the actual lag but ar not taken into account when ARC is calculated. How significant these are, can vary a lot. For some fitted mesh (especially early ones) it may not make much difference at all but other fitted meshes may well be a hundred times as laggy as their ARC says. It's almost impossible to say exactly how laggy a specific mesh avatar is but if you multiply the ARC with something between five and ten, you should be fairly close to the right ballpark for an average modern mesh avatar.

Edited by ChinRey
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2 hours ago, Blush Bravin said:

Maitreya also sells a set of mesh feet that work with the classic body. There are tons and tons of Maitreya sized shoes available. Just an fyi if you are thinking of going with mesh feet and not a mesh body.

To add if you have tons of system foot shoes Maitreya feet are the feet to go for as the shoes using shoe shape will only need re-positioning and maybe some re-sizing to work, with Slink feet it's very difficult to get acceptable compatibility with system shoes

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5 minutes ago, Claireschen Hesten said:

To add if you have tons of system foot shoes Maitreya feet are the feet to go for as the shoes using shoe shape will only need re-positioning and maybe some re-sizing to work, with Slink feet it's very difficult to get acceptable compatibility with system shoes

Aren't most mesh shoes (heels, at least) made for specific bodies "rigged" for the feet?  Rigged mesh items can't be repositioned.  I do have some boots, sneakers & sandals that aren't rigged, but I don't think I have any heels that aren't.

Edited by LittleMe Jewell
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15 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Aren't most mesh shoes (heels, at least) made for specific bodies "rigged" for the feet?  Rigged mesh items can't be repositioned.  I do have some boots, sneakers & sandals that aren't rigged, but I don't think I have any heels that aren't.

This is very true. Any shoes rigged for a specific body cannot be moved or resized. But before creators started rigging shoes for bodies, it wasn't common but it wasn't impossible to find  heels that fit the Slink feet. If the shoe does not go up past the ankle bones and if they are unrigged and mod then it's somewhat possible to make them fit rigged feet. IMO, it's not worth the effort involved specially since there are tons and tons of rigged shoes that fit perfectly and can be found very inexpensively or even free in some cases. IMO the best thing to do is just delete all those old unrigged shoes. :D

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4 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Aren't most mesh shoes (heels, at least) made for specific bodies "rigged" for the feet?  Rigged mesh items can't be repositioned.  I do have some boots, sneakers & sandals that aren't rigged, but I don't think I have any heels that aren't.

If it's rigged or rigged to a specific foot and can't be repositioned it wont work but if it's un-rigged or sculpt/prim so almost anything made for system feet it will work i've managed to get old system feet heels/shoes to work with Maitreya feet

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On 2/18/2019 at 10:49 PM, Clearskies March said:

Hello,

PLEASE explain to me why I should go mesh. Are most residents using it now and how do I even begin? I'd love to sell some of my fabulous antique items if anyone can point me in the right direction. Thanks in advance!

Clearskies :)

As other said... shopping. If you want to use your inventory items, you have no problems. I, on the other hand, have tried to edit newer thing to fit the old body and I found it was really not worth my time. Seraphimsl.com has links to new shopping events and you can try to go there and see if something is interesting. If you find out that it's not better than your legacy inventory, use your avatar as it is and be happy.

There are so many more demos now. Before, when you bought system layer clothes, you looked at the vendor and bought it. Use the option you have now, and demo, demo, demo mesh clothes, mesh shoes, mesh feet, mesh bodies and heads. Demo before you buy is the thing now.

Does most use mesh now? I would say yes, at least where I go. Even new starter avatars are meshed out in clothing and hair.

A mesh body in not important unless you will show a lot of skin. It can be hard to buy new bathing suits and lingerie. And small dresses like sundresses with straps. You can always use your pre mesh clothes. I will not say it looks bad. The below is all system and prims.But I can not go and buy a new bikini on system layers easy. I will have to do with what I have.4786731919_937366f1e5_z.jpg.cd2898ff3294d1ab4d77c9e42ade5b4c.jpg

And as others have said, new bones gives us better hand poses, can move each finger individually. And new expressions. This pose hands-on-the pool ladder is not photoshopped in.

32964927883_c069968bba_z.jpg.ccb30e747f508b140c26d2edf62da68d.jpg

 

Edited to add: You can open a Marketplace store and sell your inventory that is  transfer.

 

Edited by Marianne Little

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On 2/18/2019 at 4:49 PM, Clearskies March said:

Hello,

I got my heart broken and left SL for a few years and came back to a whole new world! I have so much invested in old school primmy clothing, hair, etc. I am dragging my feet on going mesh. I don't mind the expense but it's the whole idea of parting with some of my things that are genuinely antique and made by creators who are no longer inworld. I need someone to educate me on fixed mesh and why I need it. I go places and can't see avatars made of mesh and I was given some alpha masks but when I put them on I'm invisible? I even had to use the Firestorm viewer because my laptop is truly a piece of crap. I understand that excessive prim usage creates lag and nobody likes that but someone PLEASE explain to me why I should go mesh. Are most residents using it now and how do I even begin? I'd love to sell some of my fabulous antique items if anyone can point me in the right direction. Thanks in advance!

Clearskies :)

You need a mesh body so that petty, shallow people like me won't shun you.

Get Maitreya Lara, it is the absolute best and comes with hands and feet.

I'm sure there are some petty, shallow people that shun me because of my system head and flexi prim hair, but  $*%@ them

*grins*

p.s if you do get Maitreya Lara, do not wear the high foot form when barefoot, or I'll still shun you

Added note: I suppose some might call this a troll post, but i'm really trolling myself here

Edited by BilliJo Aldrin
added a line for clarification
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20 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

Added note: I suppose some might call this a troll post, but i'm really trolling myself here

Good job!

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If you really want a reason to go mesh, go get the Maitreya Lara demo and then go to one of the shopping events currently open like C88 or Kustom 9 and grab as many demos as you can find. Or to make it really easy just pick up a lot of clothing demos at Maitreya while you get the body demo. Go home and put on the Mait body and start demoing the clothing. Take a good amount of time doing that. Compare how you look in the mesh body/clothes to your system body/clothes. Then decide which you prefer. I'm willing to bet you will choose mesh. :) 

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