Product listing reviews beyond my understanding!

[rasterscan]

Then there was the one who one starred me because my 0$L LCD wall clock didnt work as a HUD.  smh. After that one I started caring less. And furthermore I took to responding cos' you can comment on the reviews. Fight fire with fire girls its the only way. One of the best retaliators I've read is Utilizator he dont take no sh*t. And yes, I do spend far too long reading reviews and review comments. I know it's unhealthy but .... its like a sort of hobby now in its own right.

Edited February 12, 2019 by rasterscan

[Pamela Galli]

On 2/2/2019 at 3:49 AM, RohanaRaven Zerbino said:

I love to read marketplace product listing reviews as, for me, they are great source of information about Second Life community.

 

But, I have to admit I have steam coming out of my ears when I run into something I consider to be complete abuse of the review section:🤬

 

1. Leaving low rated review before contacting merchant in order to blackmail merchant to do whatever customer wish merchant to do, with a comment I-will-give-the-more-stars-if-merchant-contact-me style.

 

2. Leaving low rated review because purchase has been made prior the description reading, prior checking product category, prior demo previewing, lack of customer’s own skills needed for product usage, lack of knowledge about system restrictions and requirements ….

 

3. Rating customer’s wish list instead of product! Five minutes ago I’ve run into review with the 3 stars for product that customer stated is “beautiful”, “working flawlessly”, but she “wish there were (such and such) setting”, concluding that she “would give her a 5+ with no hesitation” IF customer’s wishlist setting would work! Seriously?!🤬

 

4. Review in “just what I needed” style. Really? And how exactly rest of the world should know what are ones needs??🤨

 

5. Review in "it is not stated that product is not for *enter whatever in here*” style. If, as an example, animation is listed in “Sitting and Lying Anims” why on Earth should I talk about AO animation in description filed at all, and why would anyone would assume it is usable for AO? 🙄 When something is in “Sitting and Lying Anims” category, it is also not a mesh chair, nor sculpted couch, nor … whatever. It is “Sitting and Lying” animation listed in that category, not animation listed in Animation Override category! And yes, I have stated that my anims are not for AO in both profile and policies sections of MP page.

 

 

There is something that I consider to be “shopping culture” that includes:

 

- paying attention on product category

 

- paying attention on shop policy

 

- paying attention on perms

 

- paying attention on maturity rating

 

- reading description

 

- reading Profile and Policies sections on the MP listing page!

 

- previewing on listing images

 

- paying attention on additional info sources at the bottom of the page like “See item in Second Life”, “View Video”, “Download instructions” ….

 

- if more info links are listed in the description field, check them!

 

- get yourself a demo, or check demo in world

 

- if not sure, contact creator prior making purchase!

 

- not using review as blackmail option

 

- not rating product according to what product could be, but for what product really is

 

- taking responsibility for your shopping decisions

 

- read: https://community.secondlife.com/forums/topic/405903-product-listing-reviews-faq-guide/

 

 

If you need to contact creator:

 

- check contact options, they are listed in profile for a reason

 

- stay polite – merchant is not your best buddy, nor your slave

 

- try to explain your problem as best as you can - we don’t have crystal balls, nor we are mind readers

 

- be patient – we have real life too, maybe merchant is on vacation, or hospital, or has technical problems, or has a sick child, or what ever

 

- keep in mind that your role-play is not our role-play

 

- use translator!

 

In short – do not assume, search for/read informations!🤕

 

We should start mailing this to idjets.

[Pamela Galli]

56 minutes ago, rasterscan said:

My worst was a disgruntled customer who used an alt to one star all my best sellers, when I used to sell for 10L cheapy cheap. One starred with lies like 'this AO deformed my avatar' and .. 'the box was empty' . I cried in here about it and was advised to up my prices, which worked.

I get the “The box is empty.” bad review sometimes. As if I have built this huge store of well reviewed products, including the one reviewed, by scamming people, and the reviewer is the first to notice. 

I have a couple bad reviews sitting there now, one is because they read the description, stated they knew about the thing they did not like but bought it anyway, the other because the item did not look the same shade of green as in the picture (photographed with default Windlight). 

[Elvina Ewing]

my "favourite" of all of my one star reviews is from a customer who wrote she refuses to pay for demos (1L$), that's why she went ahead and bought the actual product (650L$) without trying a demo. She didnt like it because it was showing too much ass crack, so one star because 650L wasted (*facepalm*). I didn't even flag it, as it looks perfectly legit, and it's still there to this day. One of my best selling items.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

On 2/12/2019 at 4:59 AM, Elvina Ewing said:

yet, a certain well-known fullperm clothing creator manages to get 95% of their reviews removed that are less than 4 stars. I watch their store daily and as soon as a less-than-4-star review appears you can bet your money on it that within next 7-10 days it will be removed. No matter what was in the review and how legit it was. I have seen very reasonable and very useful bad reviews removed from their store, and also there are a lot of comments under others' reviews where people mention "my bad review was removed, too". I have no explanation for why nearly all bad reviews of that store get systematically removed, other than that this store either is some kind of a special favourite of LL, or they keep filing tickets and reopening them until a Linden is so fed up with it that they just remove it. Which is really a great shame because this store has no demos and a review is the only way for people to know what's wrong with an item.

If its the creator i think it is, they threaten the reviewer with a  full revoking of the resell license and DMCA on any further items created with  their mesh unless the reviewer pulls the review. 

[Elvina Ewing]

5 minutes ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

If its the creator i think it is, they threaten the reviewer with a  full revoking of the resell license and DMCA on any further items created with  their mesh unless the reviewer pulls the review. 

for real?? wow... i was talking about the one that rhymes with "smelly"... i left a 2 star review on one of their products, explaining in detail what was wrong with it... It was there for 3 weeks, and i haven't heard anything from them, no threats or anything... After 3 weeks it finally got removed. I am still wondering what on earth could they possible use as a reason to flag it... I thought being a creator myself i would know how to write a proper review, but i guess when you want to split hairs you can find something "inappropriate" in any review.... I just wonder why when i do that with the reviews in my store it is rarely removed, when that store does that it just magically disappears...

[Drake1 Nightfire]

Just now, Elvina Ewing said:

for real?? wow... i was talking about the one that rhymes with "smelly"... i left a 2 star review on one of their products, explaining in detail what was wrong with it... It was there for 3 weeks, and i haven't heard anything from them, no threats or anything... After 3 weeks it finally got removed. I am still wondering what on earth could they possible use as a reason to flag it... I thought being a creator myself i would know how to write a proper review, but i guess when you want to split hairs you can find something "inappropriate" in any review.... I just wonder why when i do that with the reviews in my store it is rarely removed, when that store does that it just magically disappears...

That's the one, its actually a group of people using one Av.. Had a nice long discussion with "her" one day about a possible custom order and a few days later i messaged them and got "What are you talking about?" as a reply. Followed up with "oh you were talking to ____ not me." Not sure how legal that is as we arent supposed to share accounts per the ToS.  

[So Whimsy]

On 2/12/2019 at 10:59 AM, Elvina Ewing said:

yet, a certain well-known fullperm clothing creator manages to get 95% of their reviews removed that are less than 4 stars. I watch their store daily and as soon as a less-than-4-star review appears you can bet your money on it that within next 7-10 days it will be removed. No matter what was in the review and how legit it was. I have seen very reasonable and very useful bad reviews removed from their store, and also there are a lot of comments under others' reviews where people mention "my bad review was removed, too". I have no explanation for why nearly all bad reviews of that store get systematically removed, other than that this store either is some kind of a special favourite of LL, or they keep filing tickets and reopening them until a Linden is so fed up with it that they just remove it. Which is really a great shame because this store has no demos and a review is the only way for people to know what's wrong with an item.

I immediately know who you are talking about and I don't even buy full perm stuff! Something majorly fishy has been going on with that for a long time, I think I first noticed this 2-3 years ago and the issue wasn't new back then either.

[So Whimsy]

On 2/11/2019 at 8:42 PM, Iren Tinkel said:

Recently i dont get reviews removed even if i flag them and even if they are kinda "animations could be better......." so it looks like i reached limit for deleting silly reviews.

And yes, it is not about money. It is an insult of your work because it is art work. Something like they come to Mona Lisa, look at it and leave 1-3 stars saying pffft, it could look better, it is not what i expected, it is not in red texture so pffft.

 

If you spend a lot of time on your product and you use less than stellar animations and the customer likes your product but critizes the animations used....that's exactly the kind of review that is neither silly nor should ever be removed. The furniture looks are 50% of the value, the animations are the other 50% because who wants to have lovely furniture with crappy freebie animations from 10 years ago?

Why you would think a review like this is silly is beyond me, please do explain.

[Arduenn Schwartzman]

I keep having discussions with people that think a checkers game should allow non-capture moves over capture moves. My checkers game does not allow it, because it's simply against the rules. I wrote a dedicated script function that would check for this situation. One person rated it 3 stars over it, but many more commented on it, either in-world, or in their review. I really don't get it why people are so adamant about it. This rule goes at the heart of the whole checkers game. No matter if people will subtract stars for this, I'm not removing the function.

Edited February 16, 2019 by Arduenn Schwartzman

[Blush Bravin]

On 2/11/2019 at 1:42 PM, Iren Tinkel said:

Recently i dont get reviews removed even if i flag them and even if they are kinda "animations could be better......." so it looks like i reached limit for deleting silly reviews.

 

 

18 hours ago, Syn Anatine said:

If you spend a lot of time on your product and you use less than stellar animations and the customer likes your product but critizes the animations used....that's exactly the kind of review that is neither silly nor should ever be removed. The furniture looks are 50% of the value, the animations are the other 50% because who wants to have lovely furniture with crappy freebie animations from 10 years ago?

If there is a demo available for your furniture where the animations can be seen before purchasing, then I would agree that the review is inappropriate and should be removed; however, if there is no demo then yes, the review should stand. I agree with Syn about the importance of the animations in the furniture; however, I don't think it's 50% of the worth, I think it's closer to 80%. In this day and age of SL, good looking furniture is a dime a dozen what makes furniture stand out to me is the quality of the animations.

[So Whimsy]

17 hours ago, Blush Bravin said:

 

If there is a demo available for your furniture where the animations can be seen before purchasing, then I would agree that the review is inappropriate and should be removed; however, if there is no demo then yes, the review should stand. I agree with Syn about the importance of the animations in the furniture; however, I don't think it's 50% of the worth, I think it's closer to 80%. In this day and age of SL, good looking furniture is a dime a dozen what makes furniture stand out to me is the quality of the animations.

I agree with you that I put the importance of animations a little too low. And you're right, beautiful furniture is a dime a dozen, with that kept in mind, great looking furniture with great looking animations shouldn't be the exception but the norm, and its unfortunately the animations a lot of creators don't put enough value on.

I can name two stores that I utterly love, like, I am obsessed with these stores and buy their decor/houses/whathaveyou ALL the time, the problem though? When I want to buy furniture I a) have to to fiddle and put in animations I want or b) shop elsewhere because they input truly generic animations into their furniture that I've seen so many times all over the grid used by other creators. It's not even the fun kind of animation where you can read a book, or drink a cup of coffee. Just the same old sitting animations.

On the point of demo's, while I agree with you that if a demo is there and should be used, impulse buys are a thing, and sometimes people don't have in world access but love the look of an item so much they'll give it a chance. Those buyers still have the right to critize a product for its components such as animations in a review and it shouldn't negate what they have to say or be deleted simply because they didn't try the inworld demo.

I've always seen demo's as optional, excessively and obsessively used by me (no sale if theres none) but not a 'you must try this else you must not write a review on it ever' situation.
A lot of people shop by sight without trying, when I didn't have my in world store I still sold animations quite frequently without people being able to try them and I thought *that* is like...one of the product niches people would never invest money in without trying. I was wrong

 

[Blush Bravin]

3 hours ago, Syn Anatine said:

On the point of demo's, while I agree with you that if a demo is there and should be used, impulse buys are a thing, and sometimes people don't have in world access but love the look of an item so much they'll give it a chance. Those buyers still have the right to critize a product for its components such as animations in a review and it shouldn't negate what they have to say or be deleted simply because they didn't try the inworld demo.

I've always seen demo's as optional, excessively and obsessively used by me (no sale if theres none) but not a 'you must try this else you must not write a review on it ever' situation.
A lot of people shop by sight without trying, when I didn't have my in world store I still sold animations quite frequently without people being able to try them and I thought *that* is like...one of the product niches people would never invest money in without trying. I was wrong

If a demo is available and the buyer simply doesn't have the time or whatever to try the demo then they should be reviewing their shopping habits and not the creator. The creator has gone through the work of providing a demo so the customer has no business writing a negative review IMO.

Edited February 17, 2019 by Blush Bravin

[So Whimsy]

3 hours ago, Blush Bravin said:

If a demo is available and the buyer simply doesn't have the time or whatever to try the demo then they should be reviewing their shopping habits and not the creator. The creator has gone through the work of providing a demo so the customer has no business writing a negative review IMO.

Just because the creator has provided a demo doesn't mean the customer utterly must demo a product before purchase, that is arguably faulty thinking on the creators part. The customers are within their rights to make a purchase without trying that demo and they are still within their rights to give a review if the products quality is not up to par.

A demo is an optional demonstration of a product provided to the customer that the customer may choose to take advantage of. Just because they didn't doesn't automatically make them forfeit their right to review the product. Cleary you and me and anyone sensible would demo the hell out of things, but at the same time I completely understand people who don't have the time or god knows what to demo.

Those people still have the right to review and the "Whatever, I know my animations used are *****ty so you should have demo'd it!" excuse is just that, an excuse for the merchant to keep making stuff with *****ty animations instead of improving themselves.

I am not advocating for silly reviews but in this specific case the mentioned reviewer did not leave a silly review. The animations were *****ty, they wrote that in their review and it doesn't matter then if a demo was there or not. The review is still truthful and should not be deleted.

[Pamela Galli]

4 minutes ago, Syn Anatine said:

The customers are within their rights to make a purchase without trying that demo and they are still within their rights to give a review if the products quality is not up to par.

It’s not mandatory, but is common courtesy, that if a creator is responsible enough to provide a demo, the prospective buyer will take the time to inspect it. I pay for four regions so my products can be inspected — otherwise the products may not be to the scale of the avatar, for example. When one size does not fit all, it’s the only way a creator can ensure that buyers get what they want. This is why in this forum the most common advice given is DONT BUY ANYTHING WITHOUT TRYING THE DEMO. That prevents  most potential problems.

[So Whimsy]

1 minute ago, Pamela Galli said:

It’s not mandatory, but is common courtesy, that if a creator is responsible enough to provide a demo, the prospective buyer will take the time to inspect it. I pay for four regions so my products can be inspected — otherwise the products may not be to the scale of the avatar, for example. When one size does not fit all, it’s the only way a creator can ensure that buyers get what they want. This is why in this forum the most common advice given is DONT BUY ANYTHING WITHOUT TRYING THE DEMO. That prevents  most potential problems.

I am aware of that, I am also aware that common courtesy isn't as widespread as we would like it to be. That however doesn't change the fact that these reviewers are still within their right to review the product and the specific review this discussion is about is valid.

[Pamela Galli]

5 minutes ago, Syn Anatine said:

I am aware of that, I am also aware that common courtesy isn't as widespread as we would like it to be. That however doesn't change the fact that these reviewers are still within their right to review the product and the specific review this discussion is about is valid.

Then we agree it is not mandatory, but is a courtesy. Both sellers and buyers have responsibilities. 

 Reviews are not removed if someone neglects to try a demo — but I for one would rather someone not buy from me rather than risk buying something that does not suit them. This is why my wish has always been to be able to block irresponsible buyers from my marketplace store.

Edited February 17, 2019 by Pamela Galli

[So Whimsy]

15 minutes ago, Pamela Galli said:

Then we agree it is not mandatory, but is a courtesy. Both sellers and buyers have responsibilities. 

 Reviews are not removed if someone neglects to try a demo — but I for one would rather someone not buy from me rather than risk buying something that does not suit them. This is why my wish has always been to be able to block irresponsible buyers from my marketplace store.

Fair enough and I do agree that such a feature would be very nice, although it's just a bandaid to use after the fact, wish something could be done before that.

[Codex Alpha]

Here's a case scenario;
A reviewer has a problem with your product, eg "Textures are too blurry".
So I review the product, find it is in fact, shockingly blurry (wondering why because it wasn't when I uploaded the product, or it's because I use a UHD monitor now and can see that it is blurry), so I do my best to fix the issue and re-uv to maximize.
Instead of flagging the review, and trying hard not to get angry because I wasn't contacted inworld about this (I always want to make the best product I can at any given time), I informed the customer it was fixed and they could re-deliver.
 

To this day, no response to the fix/improvement, and the review still stands, with a lower star rating than it would normally be given if all was okay.. Since not one unit has been sold since, presumably from such a low and inaccurate rating, might as well give it away for free, or just remove it from the Marketplace altogether...

I'm okay though, I just use the reply section to address their concerns, and if anyone bothers to read it, they will think "oh cool, he will fix issues if they come up"..

But technically isn't that now an outdated review that may not reflect the current status of the product?

Edited February 17, 2019 by entity0x

[Pamela Galli]

55 minutes ago, entity0x said:

Instead of flagging the review, and trying hard not to get angry because I wasn't contacted inworld about this (

If the texture was not like in the picture, LL would not remove the review, no point in flagging it, even if the texture got corrupted in the database. 

[RohanaRaven Zerbino]

For me, providing demo is a part of a good customer support. Previewing demo is a part of responsible shopping. There are 2 parties involved in the process, and if each one do their part, things should be easy.

But, let's be honest, most common merchant practice is to force potential customer to search for demo around the inworld shop  by providing main landing point instead linking MP page to actual inworld item/demo area.

This practice will put of some potential customers from previewing the demo, and they will either skip the item, either will risk and buy something according the info provided on MP.

My customers are builders, and they don't have time to waste, so linking the MP page to actual demo area is my way to support their productivity and to respect their time.

As a shopper, and for the same reason, I am mostly marketplace orientated, and if item doesn't have MP demo, I will skip the item and look for something that has MP demo listed.

So, providing inworld item preview is just not enough, it also has to be accessible - if customer must invest more than 2 minutes to reach the demo, merchant is the one who is doing something wrong with MP listing.

[Iren Tinkel]

On 2/16/2019 at 2:36 AM, Syn Anatine said:

If you spend a lot of time on your product and you use less than stellar animations and the customer likes your product but critizes the animations used....that's exactly the kind of review that is neither silly nor should ever be removed. The furniture looks are 50% of the value, the animations are the other 50% because who wants to have lovely furniture with crappy freebie animations from 10 years ago?

Why you would think a review like this is silly is beyond me, please do explain.

Reason to buy thing that has demo not trying demo before and after complain  animations are not what expected? it is kinda I buy dress online hoping that it will look same as on model and after complain that it does not fits as i expected. Sure it is silly.

[Iren Tinkel]

What for me I think that bad review for products that can be checked before purchase (demo in-world or mp) has 2 reasons - hate or trying to get money back. My 10 years merchant experience proves that.

Edited February 18, 2019 by Iren Tinkel

[So Whimsy]

5 hours ago, Iren Tinkel said:

Reason to buy thing that has demo not trying demo before and after complain  animations are not what expected? it is kinda I buy dress online hoping that it will look same as on model and after complain that it does not fits as i expected. Sure it is silly.

If you use crappy animations and a customer points that out its high noon to go out and look for high quality animations so you DON'T get such a review. It's not the time to hit that flag review button and think the reviewer should learn how to shop. Perhaps you should learn to put equal value into the animations you put into your furniture. Food for thought.

It's not a silly review. Why? Because if I found your product and read that review it would save me time from even going to your demo rezzed in world because I'd know the animations aren't good.

[Iren Tinkel]

22 hours ago, Syn Anatine said:

If you use crappy animations and a customer points that out its high noon to go out and look for high quality animations so you DON'T get such a review. It's not the time to hit that flag review button and think the reviewer should learn how to shop. Perhaps you should learn to put equal value into the animations you put into your furniture. Food for thought.

It's not a silly review. Why? Because if I found your product and read that review it would save me time from even going to your demo rezzed in world because I'd know the animations aren't good.

I make animations myself and even if they are crap - it is my art and i dont force people to buy my things. First of all i offer to try it out and i got for this whole sim. Just to rezz there demos. Customer should be responsible for his actions too. And many customers are. And me too. If i buy thing without demo and i dont like it - i think it is my fault because i was lazy to check it out. I dont run to write kinda "i dont like it" because i have brains. I read many reviews on marketplace and almost all bad reviews are silly. Not silly even - s.t.u.p.i.d. I always flag them even for another seller.

Btw you can know if animations are good or no only if you try demo. If you dont but only read reviews and believe one bad from 10 good... Well... LOL.

Edited February 19, 2019 by Iren Tinkel