$#@! Ban Lines

[Alyona Su]

Neither of you will change the others' mind.

What it's about is THE POWAH TO BANISH THEE BECAUSE I AM GAWD!

/me snickers.

People turn on ban lines because it's easy and they may not even realize how that checkbox works (THEY never see the ban lines, only other people). They also may not know the White and Blacklists exist, or how to use them, or too lazy to get to them when needed, because the stranger has already entered the property.

Thus, the ban lines or security orb is an attempt at *proactively* restricting others, rather than *reactively* through the blacklist. The problem for the rest of the population is: "I couldn't care any less about your cute little, badly-built parcel, I'm just trying to pass by or over and you're punishing me for it" and the sad thing for the landowner is "You cannot plan the future on events of the past." - but they try anyway.

Edited April 3, 2019 by Alyona Su

[Blush Bravin]

45 minutes ago, Female Winslet said:

Sticking to wide open protected seas, as your map shows you did, is a huge help for avoiding ban lines and orbs indeed. I, on the other hand, tried to do the same via helicopter the other day. I got shot down by a zero warning orb on the very next sim after I started.

I'm going to guess that he didn't follow exactly above the highway every single moment. He probably strayed from side to side a bit. Did anyone shoot him down for it? 🙂 As far as I know, that's a unique to SL thing. 

In any case, if you want to make the analogy to real life, then I think you really have to deal with how real life actually is and not just parts of it. As pointed out before, there is precedent with how real life handled the issue of aviation over people's land. LL has already done something similar by lowering the ban lines. If we want to follow the RL method, then this is an obvious solution.

If we want to decide that SL and RL are not at all comparable, then maybe not.

My example was said to show that I learned from my father to use common sense when deciding how to travel based on what is available. He could have charted a course across the mountainous terrain but choose to do something easier where the likelihood of danger was mitigated. It was more a comment on how we make decisions about traveling. So, I believe my example is pertinent to how we make decisions on the best course to take in our SL traveling. It was not a comment on whether or not the land was private or public.

To quote another parent, my Momma always said where there's a will there's a way. I choose to find a way instead of complaining on all the ways that won't work. Again, I choose to be positive rather than negative. I live with rosy glasses maybe but I find my world oh so enjoyable that way.

[Shudo]

One group of people will always lose out.So the question becomes which is the smaller of the two groups to lose out? In the case of pilots vs land owners, sadly it's going to be pilots making up the smaller group, substantially smaller in fact. As good and solid as the arguments are on the flying side, and they ARE good arguments, the unchangable fact is more people want to have ban lines and zero second orbs.

As logical the arguments are for pilots, and as illogical the arguments for land owners, there are only a few thousand or so of us vs hundreds of thousands of them.

It sucks, but it's the way of this world.

Flying is possible around the water areas, and it is quite possible to fly intercontinental if you avoid the middles of the continents - I have done it *many* times.

As for zero second orbs and ban lines - treat them like region crossing crashes - part of the challenge to fly intercontinentally! You are going to have at least one bad hand-off anyway. Make it a game, how few times you get unsat on that route, make the game of intercontinental flying finding the perfect route with zero unsits.

If you've ever played a real flight sim, 90% of it is route planning anyway.

I play a similar game sailing... how long I can keep a boat rezzed in world. I rez a boat at my dock and sail every day, each day goes towards beating the previous record. When I crash in a region crossing, a new boat and I start from zero again.

Edited April 3, 2019 by Shudo

[Aethelwine]

7 hours ago, Shudo said:

One group of people will always lose out.So the question becomes which is the smaller of the two groups to lose out? In the case of pilots vs land owners, sadly it's going to be pilots making up the smaller group, substantially smaller in fact. As good and solid as the arguments are on the flying side, and they ARE good arguments, the unchangable fact is more people want to have ban lines and zero second orbs.

 

It is only a minority that use banlines and aggressive orbs along waterways, and a very tiny minority at that. Those that do spoil it and devalue the property for all their neighbours along that waterway and beyond.

For pilots banlines aren't so much of an issue because they would normally be flying above them. The frustration with zero second orbs understandable, but the problem is that the script functionality for zero second orbs are essential for giving eject powers to Djs or officers on a parcel running events on rented land to deal with griefers. It is a conundrum how or if it is possible to find a balance.

What I would like to see is Linden Lab look at some of the worst offenders along waterways and intervene, maybe by putting a discrete wall or marker around the few that do exist so they don't function as the snares they become. A handful of interventions like that between Bremmer and Sea of Fables could open up that river and join up the Sea of Fables much better with the intercontinental waterways connected to Bay City. I think it would just take one intervention like that to open up the waterways between GaetaV and Corsica\Nautilus. Or alternatively do something to the way banlines work so they don't break vehicles.

Edited April 4, 2019 by Aethelwine

[Dominique Trevellion]

On 3/29/2019 at 10:05 PM, Female Winslet said:

I ran into a good example of the problem today. I was doing a GTFO trip. I start descending to the hub to do the delivery. And bammo. Security orb wet with zero warning bounces me out and automatically bans me for three hours. 

The LL policy on security orbs is here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Land_With_Restricted_Access#Linden_official_position

It requires, among other things, that 

You can use scripted objects to enhance your land ownership tools. Generally, such scripts should:

• Provide adequate warning to the undesired Resident.

I contacted the land owner and pointed out the TOS. I thought that was rather nice of me, frankly. They responded by telling me that the LL mainland is not an appropriate place for flying and that they wouldn't change a thing. 

I filed an abuse report. Unfortunately, I doubt the lab will take action. There doesn't even seem to be a category for ARing this type of abuse even though it is plainly a violation of LL policy. 

===

===

Yes I know what you mean. Ban lines and "security orbs" only give an illusion of privacy. The problem is one of altitude. There should be an altitude above which is wide open clear air to fly in. And isn't THAT one of the reasons SL was supposed to be so great in the first place?

 

On 3/29/2019 at 10:05 PM, Female Winslet said:

 

 

Edited June 8, 2019 by Dominique Trevellion
Submitted it before I typed

[Fox Wijaya]

9 minutes ago, Dominique Trevellion said:

Submitted it before I typed

ehm.. and what did you add?

[Female Winslet]

 

2 hours ago, Fox Wijaya said:

ehm.. and what did you add?

I can add to my post that LL actually does take action on these zero warning orbs. Although they have not been responsive about it the last month or so.

[Fox Wijaya]

59 minutes ago, Female Winslet said:

 

I can add

since when you speak for Dominique?