$#@! Ban Lines

[Female Winslet]

Recently, I bought my first waterfront land in many years. It's on a river near the Mare Secundus. And yesterday I decided to go take a trip all the way down to the coastal areas around the snowland subcontinent. And so I set forth. I journed across the Mare Secundus and proceeded into the perilous straits of unnamed to the Sea of Fables. I passed through the perilous river of whatever it is to Ice Bay. And south I went to another lake whose name I don't know. And as I entered the  strait heading further south, I came to a sim crossing. I bravely continued on seeing no hazard. And as soon as I crossed the sim crossing, I immediately was in an area with ban lines with no warning whatsoever. I got instantly ejected back to my home. So much for a long trip. Almost finished and then ruined very close to the destination.

There used to be a HUD used to warn of ban lines that could help avoid them. But it doesn't seem to exist anymore. Does anyone know of tools that would help deal with the ban line plague? They needn't be sailing specific since all who travel in vehicles on the mainland seem to have the same kind of problem. I run into it when I drive my car too, for example. 

[Jasmin Helstein]

I think the HUD you are refering to is the Banline HUD or Ban Line / Explorer HUD for full. I just checked the market place and it still exists, it's sold by Triple Peccable.

I do have one myself but I don't use it often though, I find it to be rather slow. I use it mostly to find places to rezz a vehicle. If you are using the Firestorm viewer you can make parcel borders visible in the mini map as an alternative. Personally I prefer that over the HUD, it gives a more detailed view and is faster, just assume every parcel has banlines raised and you will be fine 🙂

[MoiraKathleen]

If you were ejected back to your home, I wonder if that was a security orb rather than a parcel ban line.  I can't recall from other discussions around here, whether or not a HUD can detect parcels with security orbs or not.   

Regarding ban lines,  in addition to the HUD mentioned above, if you use the Firestorm Viewer its mini-map shows parcel boundaries and parcels with ban lines.  I've found the FS mini-map to be very useful especially when boating. 

[TechDave]

Check out Pathfinder Pro in MP. I’ve not tried it but have put in my fav’s for the moment. At L$250 it doesn’t seem too expensive if it works.

sorry I don’t have a link to post here

[animats]

Kelly Shergood is working on a security orb map of SL for aviators. The data comes from an attachment she gives out to a few people which looks for known security orb objects and logs them. It's a bit coarse-grained for boating in narrow channels. It's intended for flight planning, for "avoid this entire area" navigation. Coverage is currently spotty but will probably improve.

I've recently encountered two security orbs that threaten people on Linden roads. They can't actually eject you, but claim they're going to.

[TechDave]

13 minutes ago, moirakathleen said:

If you were ejected back to your home, I wonder if that was a security orb rather than a parcel ban line.  I can't recall from other discussions around here, whether or not a HUD can detect parcels with security orbs or not.   

Regarding ban lines,  in addition to the HUD mentioned above, if you use the Firestorm Viewer its mini-map shows parcel boundaries and parcels with ban lines.  I've found the FS mini-map to be very useful especially when boating. 

If it sent you Home it was most likely an Orb. I’ve only ever gotten stuck in bam line, and sometimes you can Edit yourselves out of them. 

I need to check FS mini map a little closer. Do have property lines on but not ban lines

[MoiraKathleen]

 

4 minutes ago, TechDave said:

I need to check FS mini map a little closer. Do have property lines on but not ban lines

The parcel shows up all red if it has ban lines up. There may be a certain distance from the parcel that you need to be within for it to show up as red.  (I have a long skinny parcel, and my neighbor's didn't show up as red until I got near the end of my parcel closest to theirs).

[Female Winslet]

2 hours ago, moirakathleen said:

If you were ejected back to your home, I wonder if that was a security orb rather than a parcel ban line.  I can't recall from other discussions around here, whether or not a HUD can detect parcels with security orbs or not.   

Regarding ban lines,  in addition to the HUD mentioned above, if you use the Firestorm Viewer its mini-map shows parcel boundaries and parcels with ban lines.  I've found the FS mini-map to be very useful especially when boating. 

Yup, I misspoke. It was definitely ban lines, but I should not have said it sent me all the way home. 

2 hours ago, moirakathleen said:

 

The parcel shows up all red if it has ban lines up. There may be a certain distance from the parcel that you need to be within for it to show up as red.  (I have a long skinny parcel, and my neighbor's didn't show up as red until I got near the end of my parcel closest to theirs).

The minimal is hugely useful for navigating, but the problem is, it doesn’t show that a parcel has ban lines until you are pretty much on top of it. And even then, it often doesn’t show anything if the ban lines are on a different sim, like where these were. I do have one myself but I don't use it often though, I find it to be rather slow. I use it mostly to find places to rezz a vehicle. If you are using the Firestorm viewer you can make parcel borders visible in the mini map as an alternative. Personally I prefer that over the HUD, it gives a more detailed view and is faster, just assume every parcel has banlines raised and you will be fine 

9 hours ago, Jasmin Helstein said:

If you are using the Firestorm viewer you can make parcel borders visible in the mini map as an alternative. Personally I prefer that over the HUD, it gives a more detailed view and is faster, just assume every parcel has banlines raised and you will be fine 

🙂

I am using Firestorm and I’ve had parcel borders shown probably for a year without having even turned them off once. I find them useful for sailing, driving, and many other things as well. Unfortunately, Linden rivers and canals and such, like we are talking about here, are very narrow and it is difficult to keep yourself within them without stepping ever so slowly over the line. Even more so when there is a sim crossing involved, as in this case. And even more so when there is a curve involved, as was also true in this case. 

That’s true with road vehicles like cars. But even more so with vehicles like boats and planes that do not travel on a solid surface and tend to deal with drifting and inertia. So the net result is that basically we can (and do) try, but ban lines can make tight spaces essentially impassable. I own a parcel near Mare Secundus and I go boating there all the time. But I never use the most direct route because it passes through a tight spot with a sharp curve. Even when I slow down to less than one knot, it’s very difficult to make it through without hitting the ban lines. And it’s a whole lot easier to just go around it. 

 

[animats]

I have some ban line resistance in the bikes I sell, and in a boat and helicopter for my own use. These will bounce off a "no object entry" ban line. Technical discussion here. Watercraft builders, this should be a standard feature for watercraft intended for use in narrow SL waterways.

Security orbs remain a problem, but on waterways, it's usually a ban line that gives trouble. Also, places where the boat can enter but the avatar can't are really bad. That ejects the avatar from the vehicle and the parcel, leaving the vehicle behind. If you limit avatar access, limit object access too. I have a JIRA request in to make behavior better in that situation.

I know of one spot on Heterocera where you get shot at by pusher cannons while trying to navigate the narrow strip of Linden water between the private parcel and the edge of the world. Small boats can be rolled over by this. I'm not sure if this should be considered griefing.

[Shudo]

1 hour ago, animats said:

I know of one spot on Heterocera where you get shot at by pusher cannons while trying to navigate the narrow strip of Linden water between the private parcel and the edge of the world. Small boats can be rolled over by this. I'm not sure if this should be considered griefing.

Yes, it is clearly griefing. Without naming and shaming please drop some hints so we can AR storm them.

[Christhiana]

I think ban lines should work both ways. People can't get into your parcel, but you can't get out either

[animats]

55 minutes ago, Shudo said:

Yes, it is clearly griefing. Without naming and shaming please drop some hints so we can AR storm them.

If you want to see this, rez a boat at Calleta sim's public dock, and head north, then west a few sims along the southern edge of Heterocera. Narrow boats may be able to make it past the black-walled parcel with hidden guns. It's a tight fit; one of those places where there are only a few meters of Linden water before the edge of the world.

[Female Winslet]

3 hours ago, animats said:

I have some ban line resistance in the bikes I sell, and in a boat and helicopter for my own use. These will bounce off a "no object entry" ban line. Technical discussion here. Watercraft builders, this should be a standard feature for watercraft intended for use in narrow SL waterways.

I wish you'd make the script available for purchase on the MP. I bought the demo and I need to work on editing the script so that it moves back away from the banline without bouncing like a ball. But this sounds like a big step toward a solution.

That said, I've been able to get the script to work in the ball, but not yet in a boat or similar object.

1 hour ago, Christhiana said:

I think ban lines should work both ways. People can't get into your parcel, but you can't get out either

Sounds good to me! Can security orbs work the same way too? "Hello, owner. You have left your parcel. You're not supposed to do that. You have 1 second until you a teleported back home. WOOSH!"

With a 300 person ban list on every parcel, it's hard to imagine any legitimate reason why someone *needs* ban lines or security orbs. Just eject/ban anyone who causes problems. If you have more than 300 trouble makers, you might want to look in the mirror to see if you are helping to create your own problems.

[Shudo]

3 hours ago, animats said:

If you want to see this, rez a boat at Calleta sim's public dock, and head north, then west a few sims along the southern edge of Heterocera. 

Thanks,

She has installed turrets that fire physical rounds at passing boats.

Edit: Insane! There are 30 turrets on that 4K parcel to make sure nobody comes near her home.

 

 

Edit 2: As I was filing the report she appeared - a tiny little Fae avatar - and turned off those turrets. Problem might be solved, it's worth trying in a few days.

Edited March 28, 2019 by Shudo

[Fionalein]

Maybe the owner just liked the looks and had no idea they would fire on their own.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

17 hours ago, animats said:

I have some ban line resistance in the bikes I sell, and in a boat and helicopter for my own use. These will bounce off a "no object entry" ban line. Technical discussion here. Watercraft builders, this should be a standard feature for watercraft intended for use in narrow SL waterways.

Security orbs remain a problem, but on waterways, it's usually a ban line that gives trouble. Also, places where the boat can enter but the avatar can't are really bad. That ejects the avatar from the vehicle and the parcel, leaving the vehicle behind. If you limit avatar access, limit object access too. I have a JIRA request in to make behavior better in that situation.

I know of one spot on Heterocera where you get shot at by pusher cannons while trying to navigate the narrow strip of Linden water between the private parcel and the edge of the world. Small boats can be rolled over by this. I'm not sure if this should be considered griefing.

Do the cannons fire over the property line? I'd guess you must be on their property if the cannon fire could hit you. Most LL land has object entry disabled doesn't it?

They might  be a cool supplement to the hornets.

Edited March 28, 2019 by BilliJo Aldrin
added a line, fixed a word

[Qie Niangao]

2 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

Most LL land has object entry disabled doesn't it?

No, except on Zindra and Horizons, most "Protected" land allows object entry. A little bit of Zindra allows it, too.

I think object entry is disabled on most abandoned land and the old Linden Homes regions; presumably also on the new SSP regions.

[Blush Bravin]

[Blush Bravin]

55 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

I think object entry is disabled on most abandoned land and the old Linden Homes regions; presumably also on the new SSP regions.

Object entry is enabled in the new Linden Homes. I imagine it's so that we can travel on those lovely streets they've made for us.

[Female Winslet]

1 hour ago, Qie Niangao said:

No, except on Zindra and Horizons, most "Protected" land allows object entry. A little bit of Zindra allows it, too.

I think object entry is disabled on most abandoned land and the old Linden Homes regions; presumably also on the new SSP regions.

Object entry is enabled just about everywhere, including protected land, abandoned land, and most people’s houses. If it weren’t then you’d get the message about your objects being unable to enter whenever you tried to drive/fly/sail or used any object that sends something flying like the famous SL Furniture Gun.

 

 

[Qie Niangao]

36 minutes ago, Female Winslet said:

Object entry is enabled just about everywhere, including protected land, abandoned land, and most people’s houses. If it weren’t then you’d get the message about your objects being unable to enter whenever you tried to drive/fly/sail or used any object that sends something flying like the famous SL Furniture Gun.

Well, I guess it would be bad news for the Furniture Gun, but things sat-upon such as vehicles are a different story, and immune from the Object Entry rule.

The reason I'm so aware of this distinction is that back when Zindra was new, a couple of us had it in mind to create a passenger ferry service that would have run autonomous vehicles through the waterways. Long story short: thwarted by that rule on that continent, even though of course avatar-bearing vehicles work fine there, and unmanned vehicles work fine on roads, rails, and waterways of Sansara, Heterocera, and the other continents.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

4 hours ago, Female Winslet said:

Object entry is enabled just about everywhere, including protected land, abandoned land, and most people’s houses. If it weren’t then you’d get the message about your objects being unable to enter whenever you tried to drive/fly/sail or used any object that sends something flying like the famous SL Furniture Gun.

 

 

No. Object entry refers to objects without people sitting on them. I used to roll beach balls down the hill at my place, onto abandoned land, they stopped at the parcel line. Same with my hornets or any other moving objects I had rezzed.

However if I rezzed a car, boat, plane, whatever and sat in it and drove onto the same parcel, I was able to enter it no problem.

 

[Sandy Schnook]

@BilliJo AldrinI may have to differ on this.  I owned 2 parcels of land separated by someone not within my friends group.  I placed teleporters on my parcels and while I could use the ones within my larger parcel, they would not go into the separated parcel when I sat on and used them, and I along with the teleporter (or maybe a temp rezzed copy) would end up someplace on the borders of whichever parcel I was trying to teleport from.  The parcel between did have object entry set to not allow objects.  Now there is a definite possibility I just don't understand how those teleporters work, I am by no means a scripter, but since I was required to sit on them to use them, I would think they are moving me via an object.  If I am wrong, I freely admit again, I'm not a scripter and have no definitive clue how the teleporters are made.

Edited March 28, 2019 by Sandy Schnook
forgot to include quote

[Qie Niangao]

43 minutes ago, Sandy Schnook said:

The parcel between did have object entry set to not allow objects.

It's possible that parcel also didn't allow scripts, and that would stop an avatar-laden teleporter that happened to have a waypoint within that forbidden territory. This used to be a more common problem with teleporters that used "warpPos" transport instead of the newer llSetRegionPos() method that will just skip over no-script parcels, so the plausibility of this explanation depends on just how ancient those teleporters may have been. On the other hand, another explanation doesn't come to mind.

[Shudo]

I'd agree with Qie that Sandy's teleporters were likely the older WarpPos type being stopped for other reasons. No Object Entry should only prevent unsat on objects from passing and is very desirable to always enable, to help limit self replicating griefer objects flooding over the entire map.

In the case of the lady with the huge number of turrets, some of those were shooting outside her parcel, they were sending physical objects into the channel that would hit the boat and push it slightly. The number and speed did indicate that it could push a moving vehicle to the edge of the world and off.

To the owner's absolute credit she did come quickly while I was there, and disable the turrets that I was able to show were leaving her parcel and hitting the public area, so I do now think it was an absolutely honest and innocent mistake and not done on purpose. 

That area is now safe to travel, well as much as those old thin channels can be.

Edited March 28, 2019 by Shudo