Why beginners don't learn the basics first?

[ChinRey]

10 hours ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

I just finished adding some example articles to my post that demonstrate what this "information" would look like.

Even something as basic as that would be an improvement.

However:

"Poly-count is important. Keep your model in tris and quads."

   - This is hardly relevant for Second Life and for game engines like Unity and UE4 too since none of these applications have any support for quads or n-gons. All meshes are triangulated when uploaded/loaded and stored that way.

---

"Too many triangles/polys is bad. Reduce them as much as possible while keeping the silhouette intact."
"Remove faces the user can't see."
"Don't remove too many though."

   + Obviously but it's amazing how many people don't know this. And why should they? How a 3D environment works, is hardly common knowledge nor will it ever be,

---

"Use as few materials as possible."

   +/- This is a two edged sword in Second Life. Reducing the number of materials can reduce the number of draw calls but this doesn't happen automatically. As far as I know, SL doesn't have any way to concolidate draw calls so there may not always be anything to gain from it. And more materials can open for more options for reusable assets which may more than compensate for the added draw calls. It's hard to say what the right balance is here. It's not something we've discussed, there's no official info about it and I would love to learn much more about it myself.

---

"Make LOD models by simplifying your model or removing parts of it."

  * That's very general advice but a good reminder. But we have to be aware that SL handles LoD models in a very different way than other 3D/game engines. The crucial factors here are that SL doesn't have adjustable Lod swap distances and it doesn't have any formal support for impostors. That means we have to adjust the complexity of the models to the swap distances rather than the other way round. It's surprising how much difference that makes to how we need to approach LoD model creation to get the best possible result.

Now, if anybody believes like what Wulfie listed is too basic, here is a simple quiz. I dont' expect many to be able to come up with exact answers but if such basic info is too basic, SL content creators should at least have a enough feel for it to come up with reasonable guesstimates:

1. You use Firestorm "out of the box", medium graphics, default rearview camera position. There's an 0.3x0.3x0.3 m mesh object on the ground in front of you. How close does your avatar have to stand to that object for you to see the high LoD model?
2. Same Firestorm "out of the box" settings but this time the mesh is much bigger: 64x64x10 m (sounds like a ground mesh to me). How far away do you have to be beofre you see the mid LoD model?
3. How many noticed that both #1 and #2 are trick questions?

---

"I search for models under 10K triangles." - Viromedia
"For desktop platforms the ideal range is about 1500-4000 polygons. [1500-8000+ triangles] Reduce if necessary." - Unity

   - What a good polycount for an item is, varies wildly of course but these numbers are way too high as averages for a well performing SL environment. It's too high for many Unity builds too. I saw a discussion at the official Unity forum about tree complexity and the concensus there was that 300-500 tris was about what one should expect for a good tree. How many triangles each asset is made from, doesn't really matter much, it's the total number of the whole scene that counts. SL environments tend to be made from far more components than game scenes so here are less resources available for each part. This is especially important for textures but it is significant for geometry too.

There's also a difference between desktop platforms and streamed virtual reality here. Once we start streaming the assets thoguh the internet, file size becomes a crucial factor. Polylist meshes will never be low on file size; Avi Bar-Zeev -c reator of the SL prim and more recently co-oniventor of MS' Hololens - actually went as far as to say they aren't suitable for streaming at all. Whether we think he exaggerated or not, we certainly don't want those files to be bigger than absolutely neccessary if we want good performance.

---

"A model needs to be optimized/rebuilt especially when sourced from high-poly applications. [Marvelous Designer, Zbrush, Poser]" - Unity 

   + That turns out to be something very few even among the professionals are aware of. All 3D modelling I have ever heard of are firmly geared towards high poly slow rendering models because that's where the big market is. Some of them have additional tools that allows them to create "game assets" too but those tools are never high on the developers' priority list and they tend to be hidden away and hard to find if you don't know where to look.

Edited May 23, 2019 by ChinRey

[Wulfie Reanimator]

8 hours ago, ChinRey said:

"Poly-count is important. Keep your model in tris and quads."

   - This is hardly relevant for Second Life and for game engines like Unity and UE4 too since none of these applications have any support for quads or n-gons. All meshes are triangulated when uploaded/loaded and stored that way.

This is still absolutely relevant when making models for SL because tris (and especially quads) make the model the easiest to work with. If you have ngons (>4 face edges), the automatic triangulation might produce bad topology (particularly relevant with lighting/shading.

8 hours ago, ChinRey said:

- What a good polycount for an item is, varies wildly of course but these numbers are way too high as averages for a well performing SL environment. It's too high for many Unity builds too. I saw a discussion at the official Unity forum about tree complexity and the concensus there was that 300-500 tris was about what one should expect for a good tree. How many triangles each asset is made from, doesn't really matter much, it's the total number of the whole scene that counts. SL environments tend to be made from far more components than game scenes so here are less resources available for each part. This is especially important for textures but it is significant for geometry too.

Those numbers are, of course, very rough estimates and only the necessary amount should be used based on the item and its size. You wouldn't make a small pencil with 1500 tris because Unity said so. But regardless of what the numbers actually should be, the problem is that things like the Belleza body is naked and headless but over 307'000 triangles. Even if the model was unchanged, better design choices (detachable parts instead of forcibly including even unused parts in the same object) would reduce the amount of garbage taking resources away from each viewer trying to render the scene. Even the popular Catwa Catya head is over 45'000 tris on its own. A robe from Moon Elixir is over 113'000 tris.

8 hours ago, ChinRey said:

There's also a difference between desktop platforms and streamed virtual reality here. Once we start streaming the assets thoguh the internet, file size becomes a crucial factor. Polylist meshes will never be low on file size; Avi Bar-Zeev -c reator of the SL prim and more recently co-oniventor of MS' Hololens - actually went as far as to say they aren't suitable for streaming at all. Whether we think he exaggerated or not, we certainly don't want those files to be bigger than absolutely neccessary if we want good performance.

3D models are actually very compressible. A high-density mesh takes up significantly less memory than a single 1024x1024 texture. In fact, here's some Demon Hooves from Sweet Thing as an example. They cover both legs from the knee down, almost 8K triangles but the amount of video memory the mesh takes is 1KB. (A single blank 32x32 texture takes 3KB video memory. Fully textured, including materials, the Demon Hooves take up 16KB video memory.) The Belleza body takes up 9728 KB or 9.5 MB memory excluding textures. The textures add 57'860 KB or 56.5 MB. I believe the video memory is roughly the same as the download size, maybe a few bytes (B, not KB) smaller. As for literal file size, that depends entirely on the file format. An XML (human-readable text format) for an 8K model with textures could be around 30KB on your HDD, but there are much better formats that would take up much less space.

You can check these numbers with the Inspect window. "TMem" is texture memory, "VRAM" is video memory in total. VRAM minus TMem = Mesh memory.
This to say, the memory bandwidth of a mesh is barely an issue compared to the cost of rendering it. (Especially in the case of VR, because everything MUST be rendered twice per frame, for each eye.)

8 hours ago, ChinRey said:

"A model needs to be optimized/rebuilt especially when sourced from high-poly applications. [Marvelous Designer, Zbrush, Poser]" - Unity 

   + That turns out to be something very few even among the professionals are aware of. All 3D modelling I have ever heard of are firmly geared towards high poly slow rendering models because that's where the big market is. Some of them have additional tools that allows them to create "game assets" too but those tools are never high on the developers' priority list and they tend to be hidden away and hard to find if you don't know where to look.

Just because you didn't know about it doesn't mean "very few professionals are aware of it." If you're gonna keep saying "professional," you'll have to define who you consider to be a professional. SL creators might technically be professionals in the sense that they are doing it as their job, but to me the word also implies in-depth knowledge in the field they're working in. A professional designer in game development is generally given a triangle budget to worth with, so the moment they're done sculpting their 3 million poly model or exporting their 150-600K outfit, they know for an absolute FACT that it needs to be either retopologized (jeez that's a hard word) or heavily reduced to be usable in the game.

But I agree, it's much easier to find "how to model" tutorials that aren't concerned with optimizing the mesh for real-time rendering.

Edited May 23, 2019 by Wulfie Reanimator

[ChinRey]

14 hours ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

This is still absolutely relevant when making models for SL because tris (and especially quads) make the model the easiest to work with. If you have ngons (>4 face edges), the automatic triangulation might produce bad topology (particularly relevant with lighting/shading

Yes but this was about the polycount specifically.

 

14 hours ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

Those numbers are, of course, very rough estimates and only the necessary amount should be used based on the item and its size. You wouldn't make a small pencil with 1500 tris because Unity said so. But regardless of what the numbers actually should be, the problem is that things like the Belleza body is naked and headless, but over 307'000 triangles. Even if the model was unchanged, better design choices (detachable parts instead of forcibly including even unused parts in the same object) would reduce the amount of garbage taking resources away from each viewer trying to render the scene. Even the popular Catwa Catya head is over 45'000 tris on its own. A robe from Moon Elixir is over 113'000 tris.

I absolutely agree with you (except it wouldn't surprise me at all if somebody uploaded a 1500 tris pencil to SL). add to it that there is effectively no LoD for fitted mesh in SL, it's nearly always rendered at full resolution.

 

14 hours ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

3D models are actually very compressible. A high-density mesh takes up significantly less memory than a single 1024x1024 texture.

As I said, it's especially important for textures but that doesn't mean mesh file size doesn't matter. This is actually one of the few things LL has documented although they are a bit vague (internal file size 1/8th of the dae file). I've done some calculations bssed on how much data is actually needed to represent a mesh model. I've posted about it twice already and I really don't see a point in doing it again. All I can say is that the figures I came up with were fairly close to LL's - that is about 40-100 tris per downlaoded kilobyte of mesh.

 

14 hours ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

Just because you didn't know about it doesn't mean "very few professionals are aware of it." If you're gonna keep saying "professional," you'll have to define who you consider to be a professional. SL creators might technically be professionals in the sense that they are doing it as their job, but to me the word also implies in-depth knowledge in the field they're working in. A professional designer in game development is generally given a triangle budget to worth with, so the moment they're done sculpting their 3 million poly model or exporting their 150-600K outfit, they know for an absolute FACT that it needs to be either retopologized (jeez that's a hard word) or heavily reduced to be usable in the game.

I knew about it and we've discussed it in the forums before.

By "professionals" I meant people who work with 3D modelling for a living outside SL and perhaps build for SL either as a hobby or as a small extra income. It has nothing to do with how skilled they are, most 3D modellers do not work in the game industry so the disticntion between game assets and high poly isn't something that is important for their daytime job.

Edited May 24, 2019 by ChinRey

[MaKaylaa93]

I just spent an hour reading thru this post entirely.  As a person new to mesh at first it put me off ever asking a question in the forum.  I thought my noob questions will just get me scoffed at.  But I'm thirsty for knowledge so I continued to read thru everything.  I have recently begun the task of learning how to build mesh and import into SL.  My quest began with a simple request from my partner to make him a shirt from scratch.  I love a challenge so thought I would attempt it.  That was a month ago.  I can say as someone completely new to mesh that the information on the net is scattered, fractured, sometimes misleading but always overwhelming.  I got more questions to research about the topic from this post than I uncovered in a month of scouring the internet blindly.  So I want to say thank you for this thread.  Thank you for sharing your insights and knowledge.  Thank you all for the time you put in to educating people like me who just want to learn to do something and do it correctly.  We ARE out here, the hungry ones.  The new ones.  The ones who want to learn to do this the right way.  The ones willing to put in the time and effort.  So please dont stop teaching us.  We need to learn from you all.

[Ana Stubbs]

23 minutes ago, MaKaylaa93 said:

I just spent an hour reading thru this post entirely.  As a person new to mesh at first it put me off ever asking a question in the forum.  I thought my noob questions will just get me scoffed at.  But I'm thirsty for knowledge so I continued to read thru everything.  I have recently begun the task of learning how to build mesh and import into SL.  My quest began with a simple request from my partner to make him a shirt from scratch.  I love a challenge so thought I would attempt it.  That was a month ago.  I can say as someone completely new to mesh that the information on the net is scattered, fractured, sometimes misleading but always overwhelming.  I got more questions to research about the topic from this post than I uncovered in a month of scouring the internet blindly.  So I want to say thank you for this thread.  Thank you for sharing your insights and knowledge.  Thank you all for the time you put in to educating people like me who just want to learn to do something and do it correctly.  We ARE out here, the hungry ones.  The new ones.  The ones who want to learn to do this the right way.  The ones willing to put in the time and effort.  So please dont stop teaching us.  We need to learn from you all.

I was in your position in September. There is hope. Perservere. It's very fufilling once you get over the initial WTF.

[Wulfie Reanimator]

4 hours ago, MaKaylaa93 said:

I just spent an hour reading thru this post entirely.  As a person new to mesh at first it put me off ever asking a question in the forum.  I thought my noob questions will just get me scoffed at.  But I'm thirsty for knowledge so I continued to read thru everything.  I have recently begun the task of learning how to build mesh and import into SL.  My quest began with a simple request from my partner to make him a shirt from scratch.  I love a challenge so thought I would attempt it.  That was a month ago.  I can say as someone completely new to mesh that the information on the net is scattered, fractured, sometimes misleading but always overwhelming.  I got more questions to research about the topic from this post than I uncovered in a month of scouring the internet blindly.  So I want to say thank you for this thread.  Thank you for sharing your insights and knowledge.  Thank you all for the time you put in to educating people like me who just want to learn to do something and do it correctly.  We ARE out here, the hungry ones.  The new ones.  The ones who want to learn to do this the right way.  The ones willing to put in the time and effort.  So please dont stop teaching us.  We need to learn from you all.

I should put a big asterisk on my posts, matching the size of the post, that especially the things I complain about only apply to people who refuse help. If somebody was to come in here and say "here's my model, it's 500K tris and I can't upload it, what's wrong?" I would never attack the person for not knowing what they're doing. I would, in kind words, explain to them what the issue is and how models should be created for something like Second Life and how to make their model usable. (Even going so far as to explain how to get past the face/vert limit if needed.)

Not knowing but asking for help is totally different from not knowing and refusing to listen.

[Kyrah Abattoir]

3 hours ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

Not knowing but asking for help is totally different from not knowing and refusing to listen.

Absolutely, learning is a never ending process. My intent was never to target beginners as a whole, but those who seem to be leapfrogging over important aspects of learning 3D modeling to get to an uploadable result as quickly as possible.

[animats]

Linden Labs told creators not to worry too much about mesh complexity. Fine. But then they didn't follow through and put in the heavy machinery to help with making mesh more efficient. When you create a prim, even a complex one with twists and other effects, the system takes care of its visual representation and level of detail models.  When you upload a mesh model, what you upload is pretty much what gets pushed to the GPU. This is a problem.

This has been discussed before. There are ways to deal with this. The uploader's decimator is terrible. Something with more smarts is needed. At least something as good as the one in Blender. Preferably something better, like Microsoft Simplygon. Simplygon goes beyond basic mesh reduction and  does things like convert fine detail in the mesh to a normal map on a much flatter mesh. Great for engraved lettering and such. Game asset generation is more automated than it used to be, and SL is behind on using the available tools.

Impostoring in the viewer would help. There's already impostoring for avatars.  You can set the maximum number of non-impostor avatars/animesh. Anything beyond that gets rendered 4 times a second onto a flat surface facing the viewer. Looks fine for meetings, not so great for dance clubs. Far better than going all the way to colored blobs. Try it. I normally run with only 3 non-impostor avatars visible. The viewer picks the ones to impostor by distance.

The default avatar count for impostoring is so high that it almost never turns on, so this feature isn't used much. It usually does a good job, although avatars with large attachments get clipped. Big skirts, long weapons, and large animesh companion animals tend to be partly cut off, because the surface on which the impostor is generated is sized to the avatar.

Impostoring of distant objects in general is a possible future viewer feature. All big-world games do this; otherwise they'd choke.

Meanwhile, a Python plug-in to help with LOD generation in Blender might help. I started on a Blender impostor generator, and made some progress, but then Blender announced major API changes in 2.8 without nailing down the API. So I postponed work on that until the Blender world settles.

 

[OptimoMaximo]

7 hours ago, animats said:

This has been discussed before. There are ways to deal with this. The uploader's decimator is terrible. Something with more smarts is needed. At least something as good as the one in Blender. Preferably something better, like Microsoft Simplygon. Simplygon goes beyond basic mesh reduction and  does things like convert fine detail in the mesh to a normal map on a much flatter mesh. Great for engraved lettering and such. Game asset generation is more automated than it used to be, and SL is behind on using the available tools.

It's been discussed before, but apparently the base core for such a thing can't stick in your head. Let's try to summarize it once again:

1. The library/code/program implementation needs to be free. Linden Lab won't use anything that costs a single penny. Proof of this was the choice of Collada over FBX for mesh import and the current LOD generator
2. The content can't be shared with yet another service provider. Simplygon free version does that instead.
3. The resulting content has to fall within the current mesh asset architecture: what you're describing from Simplygon just doesn't work. It not only creates more texture assets, which leads to more materials, but it also is prone to create new meshes as opposed to subsets of the high level, which in both cases would break the current asset architecture's rules. Say for a moment that the Lab is willing to create a new type of asset for this new feature (just this makes me LOL), this means that all meshes created before such implementation should be grandfathered, resulting in more spaghetti code than it is already, which means jumping to point a) and c) below.

Now, I agree that a different generator like the decimator that pretty much all 3D softwares have would be a great improvement already, and programming it so to not break UVs and material boundary edges isn't impossible (i can speak about Maya, and it does that pretty well). What i find arguable is the degree of changes you claim everytime this topic comes up. LL simply won't do it, because:

a) too much work

b) possibly have to pay for a license

c) too high of a chance to break something

We all know how much work power (and consequently, how much $$$) LL is inclined to spend overall; we know that from SL's history and the habit they have to delegate the work they should do to residents committed to SL more than they are (because it's work power for free) and from Sansar, which is way behind than any project any other company the size of LL would be. Their revenue is in the hundred of millions per year, yet they refuse to hire professionals full time for each department of work. This isn't my guess, the developers we talk to at the content creators meeting are hired part-time, at least until i participated, yet their number is ridiculous.

8 hours ago, animats said:

Game asset generation is more automated than it used to be, and SL is behind on using the available tools.

Sentence which i personally agree with, but having a reality check about who you're talking about (LL) in regard to the degree of commitment required to keep the platform running under the constraints dictated by the aforementioned reasons should make you think twice, before posting these claims again.

[animats]

4 hours ago, OptimoMaximo said:

create new meshes as opposed to subsets of the high level, which in both cases would break the current asset architecture's rules.

There's no SL requirement that lower level of detail meshes be a "subset of the higher level meshes." The only requirements are that they all use the same materials, and that you can't have more than 8 materials per mesh. "Use the same materials" just means that all levels of detail must have at least one tiny triangle mapped to each material in the upload set. That's a bug; it's not supposed to be quite that restrictive. Documentation says that lower levels of detail must use a subset of the higher level textures, not all of them.

Here's an example.

High and low LOD meshes. The two meshes are totally different.

This is one of my builds, a working escalator that carries riders. You can see this in world at my workshop in Vallone, or at Pierce'd & Cut in New Babbage. While it's not that common to hand-build a lower level of detail, SL supports it quite well.

Lower level LOD generators that generate new textures do create a problem, in that you have to go back and put some dummy reference to the new texture in the higher level model. I wrote an impostor generator in Python which generates a texture atlas. That's the texture of the impostor mesh. To satisfy the uploader requirement, you have to map that new texture to some useless tiny triangle in the higher LOD models. You can see my impostor generator source code on Github.

Automated level of detail generation was just turned on in Sansar this month. Anyone know how that's working out?

Comments from qualified people would be appreciated. Some of us are trying to solve this problem, rather than merely claim it can't be fixed.

 

Edited May 27, 2019 by animats

[Aquila Kytori]

 

14 hours ago, animats said:

Meanwhile, a Python plug-in to help with LOD generation in Blender might help. I started on a Blender impostor generator, and made some progress, but then Blender announced major API changes in 2.8 without nailing down the API. So I postponed work on that until the Blender world settles.

You only had to ask, .......... It was announced today that there will be no more API changes before the 2.80 release.

From the Blender developers blog :

 

So when do we get to try out the "Blender Imposter Generator addon ?  (that the Blender B I G addon  )

 

[animats]

1 minute ago, Aquila Kytori said:

You only had to ask, .......... It was announced today that there will be no more API changes before the 2.80 release.

So when do we get to try out the "Blender Imposter Generator addon ?  (that the Blender B I G addon  )

Come on, they just froze the API today and haven't finished the documentation yet. And I'm off working on animesh NPCs now. It's open source on Github; you can fork it and port it if you want. Main problem is that the rendering doesn't get the white balance right to match SL.

[Aquila Kytori]

Thanks animats.

I'm not good with the tech y stuff so will just have to be patient.

[OptimoMaximo]

13 hours ago, animats said:

Comments from qualified people would be appreciated. Some of us are trying to solve this problem, rather than merely claim it can't be fixed

I'm not saying it can't be fixed, I'm saying LL won't regardless. That is your main issue, animats: you don't read intently and start roaming off what the intervention was about

[Kyrah Abattoir]

On 5/23/2019 at 2:56 PM, ChinRey said:

"Poly-count is important. Keep your model in tris and quads."

   - This is hardly relevant for Second Life and for game engines like Unity and UE4 too since none of these applications have any support for quads or n-gons. All meshes are triangulated when uploaded/loaded and stored that way.

That's both true and false.

On static objects whether you use quads or triangles is completely irrelevant as long as you end up with the desired shading (even if most shading issues can be fixed with vertex normal editing or normal mapping)

That being said, when it comes to models intented for rigging and animation, quads usually provide better edge flow around joints, even after triangulation which leads to cleaner deformations.

That doesn't mean you can't get a good result with triangles, if you can get away with less polygons as a result, by all means, do it.

[ChinRey]

2 hours ago, Kyrah Abattoir said:

That's both true and false.

Maybe I should have made myself clearer. There are no quads of n-gons in SL mesh. If the model you upload isn't triangulated already, the uploader will triangulate it, so the polycount you end up with, will be the same regardless.

There are several other factors to take into account when deciding at which stage if the modelling process the model should be triangulated but that wasn't what I was talking about. I was just trying to debunk the myth that quads and n-gons can reduce the poly count for the end result.

[Wulfie Reanimator]

24 minutes ago, ChinRey said:

Maybe I should have made myself clearer. There are no quads of n-gons in SL mesh. If the model you upload isn't triangulated already, the uploader will triangulate it, so the polycount you end up with, will be the same regardless.

There are several other factors to take into account when deciding at which stage if the modelling process the model should be triangulated but that wasn't what I was talking about. I was just trying to debunk the myth that quads and n-gons can reduce the poly count for the end result.

There are no quads or above in any real-time rendered software that I've ever heard of. Everything is tris, but I think you missed the point in my quoted advice about how you should still work with quads, because it makes the model the easiest for you to work with. Don't work with triangles, don't work with n-gons that aren't quads.

Edited May 28, 2019 by Wulfie Reanimator

[ChinRey]

40 minutes ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

There are no quads or above in any real-time rendered software that I've ever heard of.

There are a few but not many.

 

40 minutes ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

but I think you missed the point in my quoted advice about how you should still work with quads, because it makes the model the easiest for you to work with. Don't work with triangles, don't work with n-gons that aren't quads.

I don't think there are any rules set in stone for that. Look at this simple model for example. Would it really have been easier to work with if the top surface had been divided into quads?

 

Or how about the sidewalls of this houseboat?

They will be quads eventually but not before I've figured out where to put the windows.

Edited May 28, 2019 by ChinRey

[Wulfie Reanimator]

@ChinRey You don't have to latch onto what I say that literally. If I was going to start preempting every asterisk, my posts would like triple in size on average.. until I start addressing the caveats for those asterisks as well.

Edited May 28, 2019 by Wulfie Reanimator

[ChinRey]

3 minutes ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

@ChinRey You don't have to latch onto what I say that literally. If I was going to start preempting every asterisk, my posts would like triple in size on average.. until I start addressing the caveats for those asterisks.

I know, I know. But it's amazing how often people take things literally and out of context.

Btw, there was a video on the topic posted on YouTube only two weeks ago. I suggest people go to YT and read the comments too.

 

[Gordon Nadezda]

Deleted by user. That'll teach me never to wallow in the SL forums ever again.

Edited July 3, 2019 by Gordon Nadezda
Clarification

[ChinRey]

6 minutes ago, Gordon Nadezda said:

I'm just annoyed that so many of the "experts" on threads like this one have made little to no effort to do the same.

Sorry but I don't take that criticism at all and I think I speak for all the people you try to belittle here. Look at our blogs, our posts here on the forums and the formal and informal inworld teaching we've done and I think you'll find we've all given far more costructive, practical help than you can possibly expect from us.

[Gordon Nadezda]

Deleted by user

Edited July 3, 2019 by Gordon Nadezda
Clarification

[Wulfie Reanimator]

53 minutes ago, Gordon Nadezda said:

Meanwhile, there are ZERO courses on Udemy (and almost none on YouTube) that teach people how to create mesh in Blender to include texturing, specifically for Second Life (or even Sansar, which is still in beta). I often wonder why that's the case and suspect it comes down to one thing: money. 

It is very difficult to find tutorials on making any kind of assets for any specific game, because it's too niche.

You should try looking up "how to optimize models for games" or "making 3d game assets" and the like. You'll probably have luck finding tutorials regarding specific game engines too, like "making models for Unity," but these often focus on things like importing and setting the models up within the Unity Editor as well. You shouldn't disregard these though, as the modeling process (if shown) and concerns are mostly the same.

53 minutes ago, Gordon Nadezda said:

I'm just annoyed that so many of the "experts" on threads like this one have made little to no effort to do the same.

I believe this counts as belittling by definition.

Edited July 3, 2019 by Wulfie Reanimator

[Gordon Nadezda]

Deleted by user

Edited July 3, 2019 by Gordon Nadezda
Clarification