Alliana Mantis Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 So, I have a question. I found some very nice items which listed on the page as full perm. Now I have been using this item a lot modifying on it to create something for friends. I don't sell it. And I credit the original owner. Now the original item's owner started in on a friend of mine that I used her stuff, and it was licensed and it was NEVER allowed to be used by anyone else. When it was told she sold it full perm she started to threaten with a lawsuit, and the fact she would do a copyright claim... what do I do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cindy Evanier Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 3 minutes ago, Alliana Mantis said: So, I have a question. I found some very nice items which listed on the page as full perm. Now I have been using this item a lot modifying on it to create something for friends. I don't sell it. And I credit the original owner. Now the original item's owner started in on a friend of mine that I used her stuff, and it was licensed and it was NEVER allowed to be used by anyone else. When it was told she sold it full perm she started to threaten with a lawsuit, and the fact she would do a copyright claim... what do I do? You will have to read the TOS that it was sold to you under and make sure you adhered to those. Did you hand out full perm versions to your friends? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyona Su Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Let her bring the lawsuit (it will not happen). Was there a notecard included with the item that specifies the terms? Are those terms also displayed in detail on the Market Place page (or in-world vendor) where you purchased it and can know those terms BEFORE you buy it? If any of the answers to these are "no" - then you're in the clear. The primary license for full=perms items is usually "Must be no-copy OR no-transfer" and " Cannot sell as-is on its own." That's about it. Once you make any change and set those perms to no-transfer or no-copy, then you can pretty much do anything you want with it. If that creator is harassing you or your customers/friends, then perhaps you should file an Abuse Report over it. I would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alliana Mantis Posted January 10, 2019 Author Share Posted January 10, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Alyona Su said: Let her bring the lawsuit (it will not happen). Was there a notecard included with the item that specifies the terms? Are those terms also displayed in detail on the Market Place page (or in-world vendor) where you purchased it and can know those terms BEFORE you buy it? If any of the answers to these are "no" - then you're in the clear. The primary license for full=perms items is usually "Must be no-copy OR no-transfer" and " Cannot sell as-is on its own." That's about it. Once you make any change and set those perms to no-transfer or no-copy, then you can pretty much do anything you want with it. If that creator is harassing you or your customers/friends, then perhaps you should file an Abuse Report over it. I would. She did not display in detail on the Market Place page (or in-world vendor) where I purchased it and I couldn't know those terms BEFORE I bought it Edited January 10, 2019 by Alliana Mantis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alliana Mantis Posted January 10, 2019 Author Share Posted January 10, 2019 7 minutes ago, Cindy Evanier said: You will have to read the TOS that it was sold to you under and make sure you adhered to those. Did you hand out full perm versions to your friends? There was no TOS when I bought it, and I did not hand out full perm to my friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cindy Evanier Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 4 minutes ago, Alliana Mantis said: There was no TOS when I bought it, and I did not hand out full perm to my friends. I don't think you have anything to worry about then if there was nothing in the packaging or MP listing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyona Su Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 7 minutes ago, Alliana Mantis said: She did not display in detail on the Market Place page (or in-world vendor) where I purchased it and I couldn't know those terms BEFORE I bought it This is all it states 6 minutes ago, Alliana Mantis said: There was no TOS when I bought it, and I did not hand out full perm to my friends. Then you *definitely* have a case for "harassment" abuse report - IF it continues. As for lawsuits, people throw that term around the same way they throw around the "Nazi" term. All it does is lessen the weight of the term. I wouldn't be concerned about it at all and just keep on doing what you're doing, you have purchased the right to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alliana Mantis Posted January 10, 2019 Author Share Posted January 10, 2019 2 minutes ago, Cindy Evanier said: I don't think you have anything to worry about then if there was nothing in the packaging or MP listing. 2 minutes ago, Alyona Su said: Then you *definitely* have a case for "harassment" abuse report - IF it continues. As for lawsuits, people throw that term around the same way they throw around the "Nazi" term. All it does is lessen the weight of the term. I wouldn't be concerned about it at all and just keep on doing what you're doing, you have purchased the right to do so. Thank you both so much! I got a bit worried, as I am new to this whole thing. And my friend messaged me she was being messaged about this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cindy Evanier Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 1 minute ago, Alliana Mantis said: Thank you both so much! I got a bit worried, as I am new to this whole thing. And my friend messaged me she was being messaged about this So the merchant hasn't bothered to contact you directly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alliana Mantis Posted January 10, 2019 Author Share Posted January 10, 2019 Just now, Cindy Evanier said: So the merchant hasn't bothered to contact you directly? Not that I know of, she was told multiple times I wasn't online at the time. And that I would deal with it, when I did get online. I have been putting my kids to bed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cindy Evanier Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Just now, Alliana Mantis said: Not that I know of, she was told multiple times I wasn't online at the time. And that I would deal with it, when I did get online. I have been putting my kids to bed. If they were really serious, they would surely contact you. I wouldn't worry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alliana Mantis Posted January 10, 2019 Author Share Posted January 10, 2019 7 minutes ago, Alyona Su said: Then you *definitely* have a case for "harassment" abuse report - IF it continues. As for lawsuits, people throw that term around the same way they throw around the "Nazi" term. All it does is lessen the weight of the term. I wouldn't be concerned about it at all and just keep on doing what you're doing, you have purchased the right to do so. Also when my friend stated that I could then claim for false advertising she got really pissed off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cindy Evanier Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 I guess you could contact them yourself clear in the knowledge you have done nothing wrong and stand firm at any threats with a clear conscience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyona Su Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 5 minutes ago, Alliana Mantis said: Also when my friend stated that I could then claim for false advertising she got really pissed off. Well - if you got what was advertised then it's not false advertising. The real issue is any claim that there is a license that specifies any requirements. Passing it along with restricted permissions is you doing that creator a favor (unless they have specified otherwise in *before sale* information). Here's a bit of comfort for you: Linden Lab is in the United States. Therefore, whether you are in the U.S. or not, United States law applies. And United States law has already been answered in the courts that any licensing that cannot be denied or agreed to before it goes into effect is moot and is not admissible in court. Meaning: you cannot agree to a contract you cannot see before the sale. In other words: you are totally in the clear as far as any legal sense goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alliana Mantis Posted January 10, 2019 Author Share Posted January 10, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Alyona Su said: Well - if you got what was advertised then it's not false advertising. The real issue is any claim that there is a license that specifies any requirements. Passing it along with restricted permissions is you doing that creator a favor (unless they have specified otherwise in *before sale* information). Here's a bit of comfort for you: Linden Lab is in the United States. Therefore, whether you are in the U.S. or not, United States law applies. And United States law has already been answered in the courts that any licensing that cannot be denied or agreed to before it goes into effect is moot and is not admissible in court. Meaning: you cannot agree to a contract you cannot see before the sale. In other words: you are totally in the clear as far as any legal sense goes. Thank you so much she send me this long notecard when I did log in: Hello, I am a designer at the Trend Event and Original creator of the item you are currently displaying as your work and use to make custom items with. This is my original design and I do NOT give you permission to do this or use this in any other way than was agreed upon in the license agreement included in the purchase of this digital content. I am sure this is an oversight or miscommunication on your end, but still require you cease and desist all activities using this wax seal and any other wax seal designs that are the intellectual and digital property of (c)2010, insert name,insert name, and insert name. It is clearly stated in the product agreement as follows: COPYRIGHTS AND TERMS OF USE: (c)2010, insert name, All Rights Reserved By buying this product you agree to the following according to the TOS of the Online game Second Life and the legislation about copyrights related to the Digital Millennium Copyright Act: These textures and/or graphic art are only for private use. You may not print, copy, distribute or disclose them to anyone neither as they are nor as a part of any file. You are authorized to take advantage of them only in order to inscribe documents that you may give away in doing business in Gorean Sims. The violation of this agreement in any way means a copyright infringement that could set yourself under the risk of a prosecution and a DMCA take down notice. Dated this 10th day of January, 2019. Ignoring this order to cease and desist will result in further legal action. Edited January 10, 2019 by Alliana Mantis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Why would they make it full perm, with all those restrictions? Ignorance? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alliana Mantis Posted January 10, 2019 Author Share Posted January 10, 2019 5 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: Why would they make it full perm, with all those restrictions? Ignorance? I really don't know, but I find her reaction way over the top. And like stated above, She never specifies any of this on her web page. So how could I have known? You buy these things so you can modify them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alliana Mantis Posted January 10, 2019 Author Share Posted January 10, 2019 37 minutes ago, Cindy Evanier said: I guess you could contact them yourself clear in the knowledge you have done nothing wrong and stand firm at any threats with a clear conscience. 31 minutes ago, Alyona Su said: Well - if you got what was advertised then it's not false advertising. The real issue is any claim that there is a license that specifies any requirements. Passing it along with restricted permissions is you doing that creator a favor (unless they have specified otherwise in *before sale* information). Here's a bit of comfort for you: Linden Lab is in the United States. Therefore, whether you are in the U.S. or not, United States law applies. And United States law has already been answered in the courts that any licensing that cannot be denied or agreed to before it goes into effect is moot and is not admissible in court. Meaning: you cannot agree to a contract you cannot see before the sale. In other words: you are totally in the clear as far as any legal sense goes. She is now sending out notices about it to anyone who wishes to know..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyona Su Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Alliana Mantis said: It is clearly stated in the product agreement as follows: I would tell her that in order for that agreement to be viable it has to be displayed for the buyer *before* the purchase. It must be on her MP page where the product is sold. Now, if it were ME, I would say that she can give me a full 100% refund and I will destroy all copies of the product from my inventory, or I will continue to use the product under the terms and conditions stipulated on the Market Place page from where I purchased it (which there are none). (And take a screenshot of that page immediately and save it also.). In the end - tell her that there was no agreement made before purchase. Therefore she can file a DMCA takedown if she so chooses. However, if she does that, I can file a counter-demand and when you do that: if she does not bring legal action and prove that to Linden Lab, then there is a $10,000 U.S. fine (for false take-down notice) - AND I can press charges of fraud for false advertising and harassment since I purchased the item legally and there was no agreement in place at the time of purchase. At which point I will politely let her know that this would be the end of our conversation and any furth conversation should be between her attorney and mine. NOTE: I am expressing what *I* would do in this situation, I am not passing along any advice whatsoever. LOL Edited January 10, 2019 by Alyona Su 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionalein Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 (edited) 42 minutes ago, Alliana Mantis said: "You are authorized to take advantage of them only in order to inscribe documents that you may give away in doing business in Gorean Sims." the gors again - source of hilarity in SL ever since I logged on... Look at the MP again; does it say "User licensesed" below the "permissions" folder - if not make a screenshot of the permissions section, and AR for harassments. Also remove the name - despite being gors their funny sexual fetish still cannot be outed on the Forums (unless they reveal it themselves here). My advice is: stop using it and get a better one, the legal trouble is not worth the pain (but you can still AR for harrasment and maybe fraud - because if she tries selling it to nsuspecting custemrs she later tries to sue she pretty much sells you something that was not there) Now here's something to check: did you actaully buy it from her or from a cheater? If the "former owner" is not her you might have fallen for a fraudulent fullperm reseller... Edited January 10, 2019 by Fionalein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyona Su Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 41 minutes ago, Alliana Mantis said: Dated this 10th day of January, 2019. Ignoring this order to cease and desist will result in further legal action. I just noticed this part. Hmmm, to be a legal cease and desist order it must name you specifically, and she must have a proof you received it. My only comment in that regard is "good luck with that". LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alliana Mantis Posted January 10, 2019 Author Share Posted January 10, 2019 8 minutes ago, Fionalein said: the gors again - source of hilarity in SL ever since I logged on... Look at the MP again; does it say "User licensesed" below the "permissions" folder - if not make a screenshot of the permissions section, and AR for harassments. Also remove the name - despite being gors their funny sexual fetish still cannot be outed on the Forums. My advice is: stop using it and get a better one, the legal trouble is not worth the pain (but you can still AR for harrasment and maybe fraud - because if she tries selling it to nsuspecting custemrs she later tries to sue she pretty much sells you something that was not there) Now here's something to check: did you actaully buy it from her or from a cheater? If the "former owner" is not her you might have fallen for a fraudulent fullperm reseller... I already took the art down. She still threatens with DMCA I never sold it however, I only showcased it on an event, as an example. Not to be sold. She now is following me even to my home region.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionalein Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Alliana Mantis said: She now is following me even to my home region.... AR her! She might have a legit interest to check wether you sell more of her items against her TOS, but for that she must follow you to your shop - not home region. Edited January 10, 2019 by Fionalein 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alliana Mantis Posted January 10, 2019 Author Share Posted January 10, 2019 She is not responding to my reply back to her: Very well. However having spoken to Linden Labs, namely the Live chat. They state that since you sold it as: I bought the rights to modify your work, that is what listing it as you did means. Full permission. Modify: Checking this lets the next owner modify your creation. Unchecking it denies any modifications. Also: "As a rule of thumb, you buy a full permission product with the intent to modify or re-texture and resell product. You may sell as many copies of your derivative work as you want but you may not sell them as full permission. Make them either no copy or no transfer." http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Full_Perm I never sold my work. I handed it over none transferable. So right now, you made the mistake of making it full perm. This reaction from you is way over the top. And if you continue I have Linden Lab supporting me to file an abuse claim against you. That said I will take down the seal. But I will also no longer advice anyone to do any business with you. As you yourself Ma'am conduct false advertising. Which according to the flag system in SL, is something which isn't allowed. If you do wish to take me to court. Read this please: "Linden Lab is in the United States. Therefore, whether you are in the U.S. or not, United States law applies. And United States law has already been answered in the courts that any licensing that cannot be denied or agreed to before it goes into effect is moot and is not admissible in court. Meaning: you cannot agree to a contract you cannot see before the sale." You never specified on the page BEFORE you purchase your product that I am not allowed to modify your work. But you did list it in that little box. That is false advertisement, or I am sure this is an oversight or miscommunication on your end . Pixie But she does keep harassing my friend... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cindy Evanier Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 5 minutes ago, Alliana Mantis said: But she does keep harassing my friend... Your friend can AR too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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