So You Make "100% Original Mesh", Do You?

[iamyourneighbour]

I outsource now it's quicker

To be honest, bulk of the consumer base do not care as long as it works, looks good and delivery what you see in the product image. I would say about 10% of the people actually care about where the meshes come from, there are a few products with 5-6 one star reviews, meaning the bulk of people aren't even looking at the stars as long as the product image looks legible.

Publishers probably knows but couldn't care less if they can crank out another moneymaker.

Edited January 11, 2019 by iamyourneighbour

[Nacy Nightfire]

Wow.  It's been a very long time while since I posted here.   I'll mention here that I do not and never have had a business in SL or profited financially from creating mesh, although in the early years the introduction of mesh creation in SL I collaborated with a "like-minded" friend who sells the kind of items I enjoy modeling. These days I occasionally create 3d models  just for fun and as a focus to exercise my skills in Blender and Zbrush. Prior to the introduction of mesh items to SL,  I was exclusively on the consumer side of SL and probably experience things in SL more from the consumer side then the creator side..

I think the problem here is one of semantics. The term 100 percent mesh is most likely not intended to signify that the underlying low poly structure is original or the concept is unique.  I would guess it simply means that an item was uploaded  into SL as a "mesh" item by a seller who had a hand in some or all aspects in it's design and of bringing the item to completion.  Where mesh items are, by necessity, very low in poly count, I agree that most mesh structures are not a challenge to create for the average 3d artist and the mesh part is simply a canvas. Anyone who paints on a canvas creates something unique and original (not necessarily something pleasing or in the realm of fine art).

You wrote: I prefer using 'unique design' or 'innovative design' rather than '100% original" because as an artist, I am the sum of all the sights, sounds and experiences in my life, and everything goes into a big pot, gets stirred and churned and matured, and comes out in the form of a mental library in which I can create new works.

Not everyone is approaching SL as a vehicle for producing fine art.  Some of us are happy to create sub-par art because it's all we have time for and it's  relaxing and enjoyable.  And if someone want to try to sell their creations and others agree to buy these items, regardless of quality or uniqueness, it's all fine. I, personally,  might not  wish to waste my time drawing in an "adult" coloring book, but who am I to question the enjoyment other adults might get from the activity.  In any event, any so-named "unique design" is ultimately derivative, as we don't live in a bubble and we are influenced by the art produced by others we view and admire, if only on a sub-conscious level.

Again, folks who have average skills in modeling can replicate any items in SL simply because they can take screen shots to use as modeling reference guides.  On the other hand the texturing,  animating and rigging mesh, where applicable,  handling of technical aspects such as LOD creation, along with the creative context in which the mesh is used or displayed can represent the uniqueness of an item. That is the magic. (Any mesh item I could create, would, in the hands of a good texture artist and a talented designer, become a unique mesh item that would be, as a finished product, far superior then the original I created and completed.)

Re: replicating ordinary items from RL to SL.  There has always been  charm in "little versions" of ordinary common RL objects. It's the doll house effect.  For many, including myself, it's amusing and a perfectly reasonable way to enjoy oneself creatively in SL.

And you wrote: "The awesome thing about SL, and the VALUE one offers to users of it will be, will be in your creativity  in presenting an object. There are more than enough crates, barrels and park benches out there - one would think why bother modeling those again?"

When one is a beginner to 3d creation, by necessity one starts  at the beginning with barrels, bottles and boxes.  Everyone struggles at first and creating these simple, common objects is a great accomplishment. Beginner 3d content creators (myself once among them, and you as well, I'm guessing) can't wait to upload such items and display them proudly. So there will never be a point where budding creators will decide there are enough original crates, barrels and boxes brought into SL.  And that's a good thing.  We all have to start somewhere.   

Many folks who participate in SL have limited time and/or artistic vision - members may not have lofty goals for what they create or how they spend their time in SL.  Many of us simply just want to de-stress and enjoy SL creatively in a simple fashion.  So if folks simply want to copy items from RL or copy items from SL to test their skills and possibly improve the original it in some way (and then perhaps try their luck selling these items on the Marketplace),  why judge?

[Kyrah Abattoir]

I've met a few people before who boasted that they created fully "original" content and took great pride in walling themselves from any accidental inspiration to keep their art "pure" and free from the influence of others.

Their work was absolutely awful and they where the only ones convinced that it had any value.

Claiming that your work is in no way inspired by things you've seen in your life is arrogance and a falacy.

 

If by "Original Mesh" you mean "I made this myself!" I wish it was a lot clearer to differenciate them because I have no interest in promoting asset flippers.

[Nacy Nightfire]

The world is and has always been full of "puffery" and falsehoods, especially in the realm of marketing/advertising.  I don't see that changing.  Add to that misunderstandings which are culturally based.  I recently watched a humorous you tube video describing the "ins and outs" of making  "matpakke" the traditional Norwegian packed lunch.  One of the popular ingredients is a  "Stabburet Leverpostei"  a canned liver pate product.  The label on the can simply has an image an adorable grinning child, not a child eating a sandwich or a picture of the actual contents.  Foreigners  might infer from the label that the can contains pate made from adorable children, as, in many places,  a food label would always be expected to reveal a picture of the contents.  False advertising?

[Sasy Scarborough]

On 1/16/2019 at 9:45 AM, Nacy Nightfire said:

 I recently watched a humorous you tube video describing the "ins and outs" of making  "matpakke" the traditional Norwegian packed lunch.  One of the popular ingredients is a  "Stabburet Leverpostei"  a canned liver pate product.  The label on the can simply has an image an adorable grinning child, not a child eating a sandwich or a picture of the actual contents.  Foreigners  might infer from the label that the can contains pate made from adorable children, as, in many places,  a food label would always be expected to reveal a picture of the contents.  False advertising?

does it come with fava beans ? (could not help myself 😛 )

[Sasy Scarborough]

back to the Turbo Squid thing.... years ago I communicated with a TS staff member about the possibility of using some purchased pieces in world, not to sell just as event decoration, it was hard to find things on theme in world at all that were not a billion prims etc and so on. The reason they gave to not allow Second Life to use Turbo Squid content, was not only the reselling of items ( at the time that was not actually clear in their TOS but we wanted to be 100% sure of everything ) , it was more to do with the fact that Second Life had copybotting and ways to extract assets that would mean those models made by Joe and sold by Joe to John to sell or use, could be taken by Sam and sold to Stan and May , Marge and Monica could get their mitts on them too. So it was a lot more to do with the security or lack thereof in world that they had issues with. This is however 7 years ago just after Mesh hit the grid, so all sorts of additional reasons now most likely, as this was when very few were actually making mesh in Second Life yet. It is hard to have hard and fast rules until someone comes along and does something you did not know you did not want someone to do, so all of those kind of sites have had to adjust accordingly.

Yes the original Mesh to upload test we all had to take was full on know your rules and laws with copyright and the like, it was LL's way of making very sure you had no excuse to say you did not know, did not stay long enough, because now when you say 'but you did that course you know this' they can go 'what course etc' 

[Arduenn Schwartzman]

On 1/10/2019 at 6:47 PM, entity0x said:

I consider an original mesh to be a piece that is concepted by, modeled by, and presented by the artist himself, albeit 'their' style and finished piece inspired by everything around them and their life experience.

I don't.

I just make stuff that I like. Also, I don't consider myself an artist, just a content creator. And I don't pretend to have a style either. I really don't care about style. Just about stuff that I find appealing.

On 1/10/2019 at 6:47 PM, entity0x said:

However, these individuals and groups seem to want to apply "100% original mesh" to mesh pieces that simply replicate already existing products from the real-world

Yes. That individual would be me. I created a notebook and a pen once. Because I needed a notebook and a pen for my game. And dice. I made them from real life because I liked them and I needed them for the game.

But then again, I'm not making stuff to have on display in a museum. Just for fun.

On 1/10/2019 at 6:47 PM, entity0x said:

Considering it is very easy for a '3D Artist' to simple 'trace' from a photograph, or even model directly from it.. where is the actual orginality?

In my underpants.

Now, if you'll excuse me. I'm off, making more 100% original mesh. Good day.

[Arduenn Schwartzman]

P.S.

Oh, the irony.

[Chic Aeon]

On 1/19/2019 at 10:41 PM, Sasy Scarborough said:

So it was a lot more to do with the security or lack thereof in world that they had issues with.

And THAT is why it is OK for TurboSquid (and Daz I think too as many folks upload from there) to be used in Sansar. All works get processed so that they cannot be (at least for now) copybotted or otherwise stolen.  Odd though as one texture place never (when I was still going there -- I don't any longer)  made rules against using their textures in Opensim which is the king of stolen goods.  

 

[iamyourneighbour]

2 hours ago, Arduenn Schwartzman said:

P.S.

Oh, the irony.

How can you be so controversial yet so brave 

[ChinRey]

On 1/15/2019 at 11:45 PM, Nacy Nightfire said:

I recently watched a humorous you tube video describing the "ins and outs" of making  "matpakke" the traditional Norwegian packed lunch.  One of the popular ingredients is a  "Stabburet Leverpostei"  a canned liver pate product.  The label on the can simply has an image an adorable grinning child, not a child eating a sandwich or a picture of the actual contents.  Foreigners  might infer from the label that the can contains pate made from adorable children, as, in many places

...

Not just foreigners, I'm Norwegian and I never touch that stuff!

[Codex Alpha]

Well, well, well. Good for you guy who have taught me the Second Life meaning of 'original mesh', now I can feel all safe and secure buying objects from merchants who have to specifically state "I made this mesh myself".

HAHA. It's almost anti-competitive in nature, because it's like you are implying others who do NOT state 'original mesh' must be creators you can't trust. "But buy my product, because it's original mesh...." Give me a break.

SL elitist example proven.

There's even a well known SL Creator on Sansar currently, promoting 'original mesh' in their works, as if anyone even cares, except the person who lists it as such.

And what do the customers do? Do they care? Why do you want them to care?

Should we all go with your stupid 'assurance of quality' scheme and put 'original mesh' on all our listings now too?
Ha ha, y'all 'orginal meshers' are hilarious.

[Luna Bliss]

1 hour ago, entity0x said:

Ha ha, y'all 'orginal meshers' are hilarious.

I think you're missing the point, Entity...the reason why some creators started advertising mesh as 'their own' -- to differentiate themselves from those who rip off internet websites.

I'm loyal to the residents of SL who make their own content and care about art AND selling, and try not to buy from those who shovel stuff in from 3D websites just trying to make a buck.
So, I'm glad when people advertise their items as original mesh so I can be fairly sure they made it themselves.
I use quite a bit of mesh in sims I design for others if I don't have the time/talent to make it myself.

Edited January 29, 2019 by Luna Bliss

[Sasy Scarborough]

1 hour ago, entity0x said:

Well, well, well. Good for you guy who have taught me the Second Life meaning of 'original mesh', now I can feel all safe and secure buying objects from merchants who have to specifically state "I made this mesh myself".

HAHA. It's almost anti-competitive in nature, because it's like you are implying others who do NOT state 'original mesh' must be creators you can't trust. "But buy my product, because it's original mesh...." Give me a break.

SL elitist example proven.

There's even a well known SL Creator on Sansar currently, promoting 'original mesh' in their works, as if anyone even cares, except the person who lists it as such.

And what do the customers do? Do they care? Why do you want them to care?

Should we all go with your stupid 'assurance of quality' scheme and put 'original mesh' on all our listings now too?
Ha ha, y'all 'orginal meshers' are hilarious.

You asked a question, people answered to the best of their ability, insight into the why and how etc, including reference to older reasons, older badges/logos provided by groups that were created when mesh was very new to all and so on.
But then you laughed at people ? Not sure what you got out of the question and answer, but it was an insightful post. 

[Codex Alpha]

59 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I think you're missing the point, Entity...the reason why some creators started advertising mesh as 'their own' -- to differentiate themselves from those who rip off internet websites.

I'm loyal to the residents of SL who make their own content and care about art AND selling, and try not to buy from those who shovel stuff in from 3D websites just trying to make a buck.
So, I'm glad when people advertise their items as original mesh so I can be fairly sure they made it themselves.
I use quite a bit of mesh in sims I design for others if I don't have the time/talent to make it myself.

As an  'original mesher' , not only by the dictionary definition (most of the time) and of the twisted SL 'definition', I'm not missing any point.

I just don't see the need for, nor should we encourage this kind of stuff between creators here. Do I have to now jump on board because I want to be 'legit' and hopefully get the validation and credentials from some small sect of consumers who care?

All one has to do is comply with the terms and conditions of Second Life and the Marketplace and there should be no need to seperate oneself from 'others'.

Like I said, it's almost 'anti-competitive' behaviour to imply others work is not up to snuff, or somehow inferior without some community badge to say so.

Anyways, its just a post to put up to discuss, people can get all ruffled if they want.

[Luna Bliss]

28 minutes ago, entity0x said:

I just don't see the need for, nor should we encourage this kind of stuff between creators here. Do I have to now jump on board because I

...it's almost 'anti-competitive' behaviour to imply others work is not up to snuff, or somehow inferior without some community badge to say so.

You are the one interpreting their label of "original content" as being against you when it is not directed at you -- it's directed toward the asset flippers (I assume you are not one of those?). I don't see any of them requiring a "badge" to be valid or 'one of them' -- you are imagining that --they've never said you are not legit or that you have to join them. As I said before, they are simply differentiating themselves from asset flippers (the ones I've known who use the 'original mesh' label anyway).

Personally I wish we could ban asset flippers. Here we are in an amazing 3D virtual world where one could learn about art and develop creatively, and all the asset flippers do is shovel stuff in to make a buck, commodifying what should be a creative world.

By allowing asset-flippers to hog most of the money with little effort we end up shortchanging artists. Creators need to earn some money with their time or many would have to work another job and be too tired to create.
What we're doing in SL now by allowing asset flipping is fostering theft, laziness, and commodification of our world. So yeah, I totally get why they want to label themselves as something better -- they ARE better (better than asset flippers).

[Codex Alpha]

Like I said, as soon as one group start to label themselves something,  the implication is that those who don't wear or display the label themselves could be someone not to be trusted...

It's not a good way of conducting business, and is close to becoming 'anti-competitive' behaviour, and really shouldn't be encouraged in any way on any LL platform.

Anti-Competitive or Abusive Behavior. Examples include, but are not limited to:

inflating prices on the SL Marketplace, in comparison to other e-commerce sites,

posting hostile or false reviews or comments on a competing merchant's items,

posting reviews that encourage users to buy competitor products, or visit in world locations,

posting item listings that are abusive or disparaging with respect to another merchant or their products.

using alternate or related accounts to purchase or rate your own items,

rewarding buyers for reviews unless both positive and negative reviews are rewarded.

Of course noone is OUTRIGHT disparaging or calling into question another merchant SPECIFICALLY, but it is certainly an attempt by one merchant to declare themselves above another, and now THAT merchant has to subscribe to the same group think in order to feel competitive themselves.

 

Edited January 29, 2019 by entity0x

[Luna Bliss]

10 minutes ago, entity0x said:

Like I said, as soon as one group start to label themselves something,  the implication is that those who don't wear or display the label themselves could be someone not to be trusted...

Of course noone is OUTRIGHT disparaging or calling into question another merchant SPECIFICALLY, but it is certainly an attempt by one merchant to declare themselves above another, and now THAT merchant has to subscribe to the same group think in order to feel competitive themselves.

I understand the words "original mesh" cause you to feel all this.
It does not make me feel the same way though, and it has not made anyone I know feel the way you feel, although I can imagine some others might.

If I put the label "original mesh" on one of my packages I can say for sure it would NOT be to claim I am superior over any other creator here -- it would be to say that I am the person who created it and I did not shovel it in from some 3D website and claim it as my own. I have not labeled anything like that yet -- perhaps I should -- perhaps all creators here who are not asset flippers should do this.

[Codex Alpha]

1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said:

 I have not labeled anything like that yet -- perhaps I should -- perhaps all creators here who are not asset flippers should do this.

.... I rest my case.

[Blush Bravin]

All the mesh I make is original mesh. I might use real life photography as an inspiration, a jumping off point, but it is totally my work from the first cube rezzed in Blender. But I have NEVER labeled my work as original mesh because the term doesn't mean anything in SL as far as I'm concerned. There is no accountability for using the emblem. Anyone can slap that sticker on their vendor cover but no one checks. It means NOTHING to me. Also, who really uses those stickers anymore? Those were used when mesh was first introduced but quickly it went by the wayside. It's pointless, just as pointless as the OPs original post, IMO.

[HeathcliffMontague]

All mesh I've ever imported have been relatively simple meshes made in Blender. The first thing one was of course a cube. The second was a subdivided cube etc. Is this original mesh? I hardly invented the cube as a concept

If Turbosquid models aren't allowed, btw, someone needs to take a closer look at the MP. I unfortunately bought a couple items that are so clearly from TS (won't mention any). Not optimized for SL at all.

[Pamela Galli]

Absurd. If I say, for example, that my products are tasteful, that does not imply I think that everyone else makes tasteless products. 

(The OP once said my things were not original because I made Chippendale chairs.)

 

[Cindy Evanier]

25 minutes ago, Pamela Galli said:

(The OP once said my things were not original because I made Chippendale chairs.)

Did they strip and dance for you?   Oh wait.. I was errr...  Jason Momoa anyone?  👼

[Pamela Galli]

[Theresa Tennyson]

15 hours ago, entity0x said:

Of course noone is OUTRIGHT disparaging or calling into question another merchant SPECIFICALLY, but it is certainly an attempt by one merchant to declare themselves above another

Congratulations, Marco Polo - you've just discovered advertising.