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Gopi Passiflora

What are some of the disadvantages of living in a free society?

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3 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Did we get a definition of “free society”?

Certainly not! 9_9 Because then we'd have to have a real discussion. Can't have that now can we. ^_^

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What is sad is that in this day and age, some would say that living in a free society isn't good OR desirable.

Don't worry though, you'll get your wish soon enough.

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7 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

Certainly not! 9_9 Because then we'd have to have a real discussion. Can't have that now can we. ^_^

Ok then. If I use the Star Trek universe as a model, I don’t see any disadvantage. No money is needed. Wars only come from outside. Science is and has become the premier goal. Education for all. Explore the universe. Encounter Borg and die anyway. Even in a utopia, ya dies.

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3 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

What is sad is that in this day and age, some would say that living in a free society isn't good OR desirable.

Don't worry though, you'll get your wish soon enough.

Do you mean if Trump is re-elected? 

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1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Ok then. If I use the Star Trek universe as a model, I don’t see any disadvantage. No money is needed. Wars only come from outside. Science is and has become the premier goal. Education for all. Explore the universe. Encounter Borg and die anyway. Even in a utopia, ya dies.

ST has never been a utopia. Not the OS, NG, Voyager, DS9 or any of the movies.

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Just now, Selene Gregoire said:

ST has never been a utopia. Not the OS, NG, Voyager, DS9 or any of the movies.

The reality for most Federation (Think, Earth, Vulcan) members is, it’s pretty darn close to utopia. No need to argue, it’s ok if we disagree.

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Just now, Love Zhaoying said:

The reality for most Federation (Think, Earth, Vulcan) members is, it’s pretty darn close to utopia. No need to argue, it’s ok if we disagree.

Who is arguing?

Utopia is a pipe dream where humanity as a whole is concerned. It will never exist because humans will never change to the degree necessary.

There is no argument.

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7 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

The reality for most Federation (Think, Earth, Vulcan) members is, it’s pretty darn close to utopia. No need to argue, it’s ok if we disagree.

And yet even in the "utopia" of Star Trek, they hadn't been able to eliminate or eradicate an individual's national pride, pride in their heritage, pride in their ancestry. Why is that?

Edited by BilliJo Aldrin
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6 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

And yet even in the "utopia" of Star Trek, they hadn't been able to eliminate or eradicate national pride, pride in their heritage, pride in their ancestry. Why is that?

The ones without national pride gets swallowed up and face assimilation or elimination. In East Asia we have tribes with named in history books and no population left, they got wiped clean when they gave up their heritage. 

Remember WW2 was not won by treehuggers protesting but soldiers storming the beach. 

Edited by iamyourneighbour
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Just now, iamyourneighbour said:

The ones without national pride gets swallowed up and face assimilation or elimination. In East Asia we have tribes with named in history books and no population left, they got wiped clean when they gave up their heritage. 

You see though, in the brave new world so many people desperately wish for, national identity will become a thing of the past, we will all be "citizens of the world" and you'll feel no greater kinship to your neighbor down the street than to someone that lives on the other side of the world.

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

You see though, in the brave new world so many people desperately wish for, national identity will become a thing of the past, we will all be "citizens of the world" and you'll feel no greater kinship to your neighbor down the street than to someone that lives on the other side of the world.

 

 

 

Totally working in France right now.  

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12 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

And yet even in the "utopia" of Star Trek, they hadn't been able to eliminate or eradicate an individual's national pride, pride in their heritage, pride in their ancestry. Why is that?

Could it be because the characters in Star Trek didn't have ancestors like this?

 

confederate flag creator.jpg

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3 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

It's obvious you are trying to goad me Luna. It's really not very attractive, and its not going to work. 

You may feel goaded, but I am not trying to goad you.

I'm simply providing another side to your narrative...apparently you don't like the other side. Nobody is saying national pride or pride in one's heritage per se is bad, but if Hitler were my great great grandfather I certainly wouldn't want others to know it, or assert I should be able to feel proud in the fact he's a relative, or insist I should be able to paint a Nazi symbol on my car...

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“I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races … I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races from living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be a position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race.”

- Abraham Lincoln 

 

(Damn Lincoln is more edgy than I thought)

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54 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

And yet even in the "utopia" of Star Trek, they hadn't been able to eliminate or eradicate an individual's national pride, pride in their heritage, pride in their ancestry. Why is that?

What’s wrong with pride? Are you ashamed of your heritage and ancestry? How confusing!

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59 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

Who is arguing?

Utopia is a pipe dream where humanity as a whole is concerned. It will never exist because humans will never change to the degree necessary.

There is no argument.

But we can write about it, read about it, dream about it, aspire to it.

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28 minutes ago, iamyourneighbour said:

Abraham Lincoln 

I'm not sure why you think the attitudes of Lincoln proves some point of yours.

Here are the women who started the 13th Amendment calling for the end of slavery:

 

National League.jpg

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2 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

But we can write about it, read about it, dream about it, aspire to it.

Sure. And it's fine to write, read and dream about it but what is the purpose of aspiring to an unattainable goal? Glutton for punishment? No, thank you.

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1 hour ago, iamyourneighbour said:

So what do you do when a Muslim bakery refuses to make gay wedding cakes then 👀 

In Sydney, Mascot they didn't but it only hit local news paper for one day. 

Don't think we've had such a case.   It would be unlawful if they did refuse, though.   The question has already been decided in our Supreme Court (Christian guest-house owners and a gay couple in a civil partnership).

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1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

Could it be because the characters in Star Trek didn't have ancestors like this?

 

confederate flag creator.jpg

 

The stars and bars never was the confederate flag, it was a battle flag.  Thompson promoted it as the confederate flat in a news paper article but it in fact never was the confederate flag.  And still is not the confederate flag, that misconception came about sometime in the 1940's or 1950’s, not sure of exactly when.

 

 

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