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There are a few things that some people may not know about rlv, that have recently been discovered. So I thought I would share this information for others to learn and deal with however they wish.

The first is a little known fact that even if a sub or slave has been stripped and their inventory has been blocked there is still a way they can get dressed without have to safeword or turn off rlv in firestorm. 

Firestorm has a option called 'wearable favorites' this special folder is not affected by any rlv restriction in general. What this means is any object put in this folder can be attached even if the normal inventory is blocked by rlv. You can add clothes, huds, any attachment then even if stripped by an item  collar/furniture/whatever. You can still apply the clothes/objects/huds within this folder even if you had been blocked from accessing your inventory. you can even add it as a toolbar button making it even easier to access and use quickly.

Yes there is a way to prevent this, but it requires using additional restrictions at that point which could make other activities more problematic. 

The second is that there is a way for a sub or slave to see where they are or have been even if locations and map has been blocked by rlv.

It is done by using the teleport history in firestorm. this is not affected by rlv at all it cannot be blocked or cleared by rlv. and will show where you were teleported to and from. meaning a sub can open this and see where they are at or have been after they are teleported away from the location or log in to a different location.

there is no way to prevent this at all in rlv currently. so if you block your sub/slave from seeing map/location they can still use the history to see where they have been. it keeps the history until they clear it out themselves. Which means they can ever go back to the area whenever they want as long as not tp restricted, so even if blindfolded they could go back and see what was there. either on the same account or an alt which would make tp restrictions pointless about them seeing where they were. so any dumbinants that like to leave your sub dazed and dazzled there is a way they can still go back and ever see or find that location and through the use of an alt ever learn who the normal participants of the area might be at the time they were there thus making even hiding names pointless.

Next is tp restrictions. There is a way for a sub/slave that is tp restricted to be able to get to different locations even with rlv enabled and all tp restrictions enabled on firestorm.

This is done by using the login location when logging in to sl in firestorm. you have home/last and your favorites/landmarks or a typed in choice. tp restrictions only prevent someone from logging in to a typed in location or favorite/landmark. It does not affect the use of home/last location. so any dumbinants that like to try and keep your sub/slave stuck in one place all the time..well they can still go at least one other place and cannot be stopped by rlv from doing so.

So if their last location is not the same as their set home location they can use that home location to log in to someplace different.  So if they set their home location to a sim that has scripts disabled at the region level, well...most of you should know what that means. That the scripts cannot start and the restrictions will not be applied meaning they can remove any object or attach any object at that time and talk and do whatever else was previously restricted. And no not even the AO keep alive functions will allow the scripts to run at this point. 

Which this will also prevent any collar from sending the notice that they logged in with rlv off since the scripts cannot even start to make the check and then send the notice. So they could remove the collar, do whatever they want, then put the collar back on before their owner logged in and tp back to last place the owner left them and the owner would not really know. For doing this method even stops any spy scripts in the collar from being able to spy on their location or chat or touch or sit too until the collar is replaced and they tp into a script enabled region and the scripts starts at that point.

There is a way to prevent this in firestorm but it requires the sub/slave to do it thus they could undo it and still use it whenever they wanted. So unless you can get your sub to use a client that does not allow this, well you cannot stop them from ever doing this.

So yes I sort of covered two things in that one, the next thing has to deal with mobile clients. Lumiya for android in general.

In lumiya you can enable and disable rlv on the fly, it is sandboxed. meaning no relog required to turn it off or on ever. meaning a sub/slave could log in with rlv on then turn it off and the collar would never send the notice and they would be able to do whatever they wanted at that time including removing the collar. there is no way to prevent this at all on lumiya. and no it will not trigger any scripts about the user logging in with rlv off, if they first logged in with rlv on before turning it off then removing the collar.

Oh one other thing, when turning off rlv in lumiya it will instantly clear any restriction, there is no wait time at all, and it does not allow for many of the newer blind/dazzle features of collars or blindfolds, and as far as I can tell it does not even allow forced tp to work. so any sub/slave on lumiya can free themselves easily from any trap/device/restriction without having to relog ever. so any dumbinants that like to just set them and leave and then think their/the sub/slave is stuck/restricted until they relog.. think again.

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2 hours ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

Firestorm has a option called 'wearable favorites' this special folder is not affected by any rlv restriction in general. What this means is any object put in this folder can be attached even if the normal inventory is blocked by rlv. You can add clothes, huds, any attachment then even if stripped by an item  collar/furniture/whatever. You can still apply the clothes/objects/huds within this folder even if you had been blocked from accessing your inventory. you can even add it as a toolbar button making it even easier to access and use quickly.

This is not a bug.
Blocking inventory has never blocked the ability to wear/attach items.  You can also wear/attach items from the outfit gallery when inventory is blocked.


 

 

 

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This really isn't the place to report bugs in firestorm - try https://jira.phoenixviewer.com - although for the sake of everyones sanity please keep your reports technical, concise, and limit yourself to one issue per report.

.. What Lumiya does is entirely up to Lumiya, as they aren't an open source project they really shouldn't be using any of the same code.

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4 hours ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

Firestorm has a option called 'wearable favorites' this special folder is not affected by any rlv restriction in general. What this means is any object put in this folder can be attached even if the normal inventory is blocked by rlv. You can add clothes, huds, any attachment then even if stripped by an item  collar/furniture/whatever. You can still apply the clothes/objects/huds within this folder even if you had been blocked from accessing your inventory. you can even add it as a toolbar button making it even easier to access and use quickly.

Yes there is a way to prevent this, but it requires using additional restrictions at that point which could make other activities more problematic.

This is a very important feature for recovering sim script capacity in the face of mesh avatar and head HUDs among other load-inflating attachments. It should be impossible for anybody to block use of this feature under any circumstances, even if that would mean banning RLV from Second Life altogether.

There also should be an initiative to educate users on how to use this feature to streamline their attachment load and thus reduce both script and viewer lag.

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4 hours ago, Whirly Fizzle said:

This is not a bug.
Blocking inventory has never blocked the ability to wear/attach items.  You can also wear/attach items from the outfit gallery when inventory is blocked.

This was not a bug post nor was it meant to be one. It was simply a post to let people know of things that can be done while in rlv that they might not have known was possible before. Not everyone that has used rlv knows about either what I posted or what you posted. And some may consider it a form of cheating since it allows you wear/attach things from your inventory when it was supposed to be blocked.

But even with that in mind both of those can still technically be blocked by rlv, by simply locking the attachment points and preventing anything from being attached at that point. Which I said would cause some problems because it would then prevent things from being attached such as props from furniture or other items attempting to do so. which is why I didn't actually say how before.

3 hours ago, CoffeeDujour said:

This really isn't the place to report bugs in firestorm - try https://jira.phoenixviewer.com - although for the sake of everyones sanity please keep your reports technical, concise, and limit yourself to one issue per report.

.. What Lumiya does is entirely up to Lumiya, as they aren't an open source project they really shouldn't be using any of the same code.

This was not meant to be a bug report. but just an informative post on other things that people might not know could be done even with rlv on and certain restrictions in place. Nor was this just about one single client but rlv and its possible use in general. Not everyone that uses sl or rlv may have known about these little bits of information. so I simply posted about them.

If lumiya is using any of the same code or not, was not the meaning of this post. Just was stating out that there is a difference that some might not have known about how rlv works within it. do not assume this was a bug or issue post. if I had felt they were bugs that needed to be addressed I would have posted them in the proper place. I do know about the jira. 

2 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

This is a very important feature for recovering sim script capacity in the face of mesh avatar and head HUDs among other load-inflating attachments. It should be impossible for anybody to block use of this feature under any circumstances, even if that would mean banning RLV from Second Life altogether.

There also should be an initiative to educate users on how to use this feature to streamline their attachment load and thus reduce both script and viewer lag.

ahh, but you see it can be blocked by simply locking all the attachment points thus making it unable to be used to attach or remove items at that point. so it technically can be blocked by those who might wish to do so. because as stated some may see this as a form of cheating around the rlv restriction of being able to access inventory.

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4 hours ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

ahh, but you see it can be blocked by simply locking all the attachment points thus making it unable to be used to attach or remove items at that point. so it technically can be blocked by those who might wish to do so. because as stated some may see this as a form of cheating around the rlv restriction of being able to access inventory.

Then that functionality must be disabled in RLV's next release. It is far more important that there be unimpeded access to the rapid removal and addition of attachments than for RLV to be able to affect attachments at all. If the RLV(a) developer(s) don't adopt that direction, Firestorm and other responsible TPV developers should strip out RLV/a altogether.

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I lol'd at this post, for various reasons, not to be rude, just because I found it charming. Two hit lists you just may end up on, the Dominants who are now much wiser, but will be cranky that you made out that they do not know, or that possibly their subs have been playing them for fools, and the Submissives that are now shaking their fists at you for giving away their secrets. I use tp history a lot, for slurl locations for events and shopping I have done for blog posts, I also just recently did a post on Favourite Wearables because that is the most awesome addition to SL. 

I do like RLV and what it adds to peoples experiences, I have had some great times helping customers by notecard back and forth because they were unable to IM, but I did also IM their significant others to let them know that all communication was commercial assistance based, just in case. 

 

\o/ Favourite Wearables FOR THE WIN !!!

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7 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

This is a very important feature for recovering sim script capacity in the face of mesh avatar and head HUDs among other load-inflating attachments. It should be impossible for anybody to block use of this feature under any circumstances, even if that would mean banning RLV from Second Life altogether.

There also should be an initiative to educate users on how to use this feature to streamline their attachment load and thus reduce both script and viewer lag.

Here's a quick hint into SL's D/s community. We KNOW our various items have scripts. Some items and combination of items have a LARGE amount of scripts. On our own sims, we don't really care. The majority do so responsibly. That is, when traveling to non-D/s sims we strip down, as it were, to the bare minimum, which is usually a collar. But, when so encumbered, we travel to other D/s sims who also do not care. Thinking that we aren't aware and DO limit that load WHERE APPROPRIATE is a trifle arrogant. Perhaps we aren't the ones that need an education initiative..

As far as the various 'cheats' go, if a sub is using a cheat to get around restrictions, then what is the point of playing along at all? As a submissive, the sub that cheats, is missing the point of patience. If it's a matter of 'too many restrictions' then either talk to your Dominant or runaway. Just be honest. If you are a Dominant, why would you care about this? Either trust your sub or don't have them in your collar. Trust is a two-way street.

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9 minutes ago, Roxy Couturier said:

As far as the various 'cheats' go, if a sub is using a cheat to get around restrictions, then what is the point of playing along at all? As a submissive, the sub that cheats, is missing the point of patience. If it's a matter of 'too many restrictions' then either talk to your Dominant or runaway. Just be honest. If you are a Dominant, why would you care about this? Either trust your sub or don't have them in your collar. Trust is a two-way street.

This!!!

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Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, Roxy Couturier said:

Here's a quick hint into SL's D/s community. We KNOW our various items have scripts. Some items and combination of items have a LARGE amount of scripts. [...[

I want to be sure I'm clear that I'm not complaining here about script load specific to D/s attachments.* I'm talking about how the Wearable Favorites functionality helps address the overall inflation of script lag across the grid since the advent of mesh attachments (as well as the unfortunate growth of superstitiously no-mod attachments requiring yet more scripts). The point of making attachment and detachment as quick and effortless as possible is to get as many of those scripts (especially HUDs) removed from as many avatars as possible as much of the time as possible. This has the additional benefit of reducing viewer lag by reducing the pixel acreage of worn HUD textures.

If there's some other way to get those benefits, that would be great. Otherwise it may be time for separate lines of TPVs, one for general use (such as Firestorm, etc.) and one for RLV (such as Catznip, Restrained Love, etc.).

One ironic thing, though: Catznip pioneered this feature with the Folder tab of Quick Preferences. I'm kinda guessing Kitty might favor retaining that functionality, protecting it by disabling RLVa's ability to lock attachment points from rapid attachment/detachment. That's what I'd argue for -- seeing the "cheat-defeating workaround" as the bug.

________________
* Although... I recently stumbled on an approach that I'm now thinking might accidentally help with that, too. Especially cuffs, which I think could benefit from a significant redesign anyway to get up to modern content standards.

Edited by Qie Niangao
add a hyphen for clarity

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3 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

I want to be sure I'm clear that I'm not complaining here about script load specific to D/s attachments.* I'm talking about how the Wearable Favorites functionality helps address the overall inflation of script lag across the grid since the advent of mesh attachments (as well as the unfortunate growth of superstitiously no-mod attachments requiring yet more scripts). The point of making attachment and detachment as quick and effortless as possible is to get as many of those scripts (especially HUDs) removed from as many avatars as possible as much of the time as possible. This has the additional benefit of reducing viewer lag by reducing the pixel acreage of worn HUD textures.

If there's some other way to get those benefits, that would be great. Otherwise it may be time for separate lines of TPVs, one for general use (such as Firestorm, etc.) and one for RLV (such as Catznip, Restrained Love, etc.).

One ironic thing, though: Catznip pioneered this feature with the Folder tab of Quick Preferences. I'm kinda guessing Kitty might favor retaining that functionality, protecting it by disabling RLVa's ability to lock attachment points from rapid attachment/detachment. That's what I'd argue for -- seeing the "cheat defeating workaround" as the bug.

________________
* Although... I recently stumbled on an approach that I'm now thinking might accidentally help with that, too. Especially cuffs, which I think could benefit from a significant redesign anyway to get up to modern content standards.

And you're missing the point of the 'R' in RLV. It stands for restrained. It's been the main feature of RLV since its inception. It's rather the whole point. I'm not sure what would constitute such an emergency as to require immediate removal of all scripted items?

Firestorms addition of RLVa is one of it's major selling points. As was with Emerald before it. For those that want the functions of RLV, and some other TPV had RLV, which prevents the removal of locked attachments, how would that cure your worry of not being able to 'quickly' detach items? RLVa is RLVa. RLV is RLV. They prevent locked items from being easily detached. That's really the major point of using it.

You have to turn on RLVa to use it in FS. It's off by default. Whether it's FS or some other RLV capable viewer, what's the difference if an item becomes unattachable?

Actually iirc Marine's RLV pioneered an outfits folder within the RLV Folder. Again, iirc Kitty expanded on that functionality. But I fail to see any script emergency that would require immediate detachment of items that a relog with RLV off wouldn't be just as effective.

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19 minutes ago, Roxy Couturier said:

Actually iirc Marine's RLV pioneered an outfits folder within the RLV Folder. Again, iirc Kitty expanded on that functionality. 

I wonder if we're even talking about the same functionality. What I'm discussing has nothing to do with RLV at all, really -- except, in the original post, it was identified as a way for subs to attach/detach some stuff that some doms apparently think RLV should prevent. As far as I'm concerned those doms should either adopt a different, special-purpose viewer so the rest of SL can benefit from the new functionality, or they can learn to live with the fact that their subs could "cheat" by using this feature as intended.

I would absolutely not favor development to break the new functionality for anybody, sub, dom, or anybody else.

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2 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

Then that functionality must be disabled in RLV's next release. It is far more important that there be unimpeded access to the rapid removal and addition of attachments than for RLV to be able to affect attachments at all. If the RLV(a) developer(s) don't adopt that direction, Firestorm and other responsible TPV developers should strip out RLV/a altogether.

Sounds like a witch hunt to me. People don't bother to detach their mesh body/head HUDs and other heavy things like combat HUDs without RLV(a) too, it's their choice and their right. Just like it's their right and choice to first enable RLV(a) and then to let someone block attach/detach functionality. If they are okay with it (and if they are not - no one stops them from either communicating with their partner or disabling RLV(a) ), then it's their choice too. Or you going to argue that their choice is "bad and wrong", because of your beliefs about how SL should be light on scripts? Then better start with breedables and scripted NPC babies, unlike people with some heavy attachments those are in-world 24/7 hammering servers to the point of making whole regions unusable. Yet, there they are and it doesn't look like they are going anywhere sadly.

And while I never ever "lock all attachments", because it's just silly and serves no reason, I do like the ability to lock a certain attachment point or whole folder (in #RLV, obviously). It lets me to lock scripltess items with ease, other method is dropping locking script into those items, but it's a lot of hassle and some things are no mod too, so it's way better to just lock scripltess items that way.

I also do like the FS' favorite wearable feature a lot. As noted in OP, it lets me to block the inventory if needed and yet let people to fix/change their avis via HUDs. Saves a lot of time and OOC chat where they'd ask me to unlock inventory for a bit to do so, then tell me they are done and so on.

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13 minutes ago, steeljane42 said:

I also do like the FS' favorite wearable feature a lot. As noted in OP, it lets me to block the inventory if needed and yet let people to fix/change their avis via HUDs. Saves a lot of time and OOC chat where they'd ask me to unlock inventory for a bit to do so, then tell me they are done and so on.

I simply don't understand how anybody could object to the favorite wearable feature being capable of overriding any RLV attachment blocks. I guess, if it's some D/s thing, the contents of that folder could be exposed to the Dom or whatever it takes to satisfy this urge, but letting RLV cripple the feature (as it apparently does now) is an anachronism.

I'm surprised this is even an issue, given how much attention D/s developers (collar creators, etc.) have given to managing script load. It seems to be a huge priority, so it's weird folks seem to be pushing back on this relatively easy step.

(Oh, and you really don't want to get me started on breedables. That's a totally different disaster. The thing is, though, they're waning, while the scripted attachment problem multiplies month over month.)

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4 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

I wonder if we're even talking about the same functionality. What I'm discussing has nothing to do with RLV at all, really -- except, in the original post, it was identified as a way for subs to attach/detach some stuff that some doms apparently think RLV should prevent. As far as I'm concerned those doms should either adopt a different, special-purpose viewer so the rest of SL can benefit from the new functionality, or they can learn to live with the fact that their subs could "cheat" by using this feature as intended.

I would absolutely not favor development to break the new functionality for anybody, sub, dom, or anybody else.

I'm still trying to grasp what exactly would constitute a 'script emergency' that a re-log with RLV off wouldn't accomplish. It's really simple. checking the little box to activate RLV deactivates something that could easily be a misclick activation. Because it's the whole point of RLV. What's the difference if it's RLV, FS or any other TPV that disallows that activation?

As far as I'm concerned FS doesn't need to take out RLVa, it's already off by default for those concerned with whatever a script emergency might be.

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28 minutes ago, Roxy Couturier said:

What's the difference if it's RLV, FS or any other TPV that disallows that activation?

The point is to encourage as many folks as possible to remove as many scripted attachments as possible as much of the time as possible, to somewhat alleviate an emerging crisis in script lag (as well as the nagging viewer lag folks keep complaining about, caused by excessive HUD textures). The hope is that this feature, as it's added to mainstream viewers, will make the script reduction painless, without reaching the point where we face intrusive script limits on what avatars can wear and still be permitted to teleport between sims.

I  understand that some RLV users would prefer to block attachments even from the quick add/remove feature. If they must insist on that, it should be in some other, non-mainstream viewers, to discourage that behavior from spreading. 

Maybe voluntary, "organic" adoption of the quick add/remove feature won't be enough to address the problem, no matter how much we try to encourage it. Maybe there are other solutions, but the alternatives I've seen suggested are pretty ugly. One might be to block teleports by users with excessive attached scripts. That might not be all bad, except it would incur opportunity cost in the form of (mostly) server-side development. Another approach some have suggested is to increase server capacity for running scripts, but that would increase cost of land ownership (or some other revenue stream), which is the total opposite direction the Lab has been trying to move.

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2 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

I  understand that some RLV users would prefer to block attachments even from the quick add/remove feature. If they must insist on that, it should be in some other, non-mainstream viewers, to discourage that behavior from spreading.

That's well and fine, except the D/s RLV community that I know already polices themselves on non-D/s sims. FOR YEARS now.

RLV is so popular, it was added to Emerald and Firestorm. So good luck with that.

But if we're going to police RLV, then surely they should police the MP and all the broke and or bloated scripted items that linger there like rabid wombats. (See I can have a pipe dream too.)

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Roxy Couturier said:

RLV is so popular, it was added to Emerald and Firestorm. So good luck with that.

THIS.

I find it SO FUNNY that "RLV" is shorthand for "BDSM D/S KINKY SEXPOT SLAVEGURL" for a lot of people LOL

*I* *USE* *RLV*... to change my clothes with the CTS Wardrobe. That's about it. NONE of the OP is relevant. Which makes it a lot of hot air to me, an RLV user. Bahahahaha!

Edited by Alyona Su
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From a developers perspective, cheating out of or around RLVa restrictions is par for the course. There have always been creative ways to get around specific restriction combos. That in many ways is the point and why the list of specific restrictions is so long. It would be much easier for us to add a command like @do-everything=NO and call it a day :P

This is all par for the course with D/s relationships in SL, control is never absolute and a little mischief adds an important dynamic to any relationship.

The ability to impose scary RLV is often seen and used as a way to impose or qualify trust, when really it should be about communication and expectation. Sadly, a lot of RLV play in SL is ALL OR NOTHING. If someone applies all the locks and leave their play partner with no reason to log in aside from stare at the screen and await attention, then it really shouldn't be a surprise when that results in "cheating".

An important and often missed point is that being locked up is for the most part a whole lot more fun than enduring the locks.

Assumptions like "they still have IM and can chat" should not be taken as a given as they really might not have or care to spend their time at a dominants mercy forced to choose between boredom / talking to other people. If a locked-up playmate switches to lumiya / radegast then maybe don't take that as a lack of submissive fortitude on their part.

For the most fun, we recommend you lock hard and often, the tighter the restrictions the shorter they all stay, and under no circumstances leave the same combinations/everything in place for ever.

Oh .. and RLVa has never just been about the kink, there are many commands that have only limited utility in an adult naughty fun setting. Want to script the camera with full control to repeat the same motion over and over, say for .... film making, we got that !

 

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9 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

Then that functionality must be disabled in RLV's next release. It is far more important that there be unimpeded access to the rapid removal and addition of attachments than for RLV to be able to affect attachments at all. If the RLV(a) developer(s) don't adopt that direction, Firestorm and other responsible TPV developers should strip out RLV/a altogether.

I doubt it will be disabled. for that is an important part of rlv, the ability to control the other user and what they can do. which includes access to their inventory and wearing or removing objects if it has been restricted. it is to simulate being tied or cuffed in real life where you would not be able to get dressed or undressed. 

9 hours ago, Sasy Scarborough said:

I lol'd at this post, for various reasons, not to be rude, just because I found it charming. Two hit lists you just may end up on, the Dominants who are now much wiser, but will be cranky that you made out that they do not know, or that possibly their subs have been playing them for fools, and the Submissives that are now shaking their fists at you for giving away their secrets. I use tp history a lot, for slurl locations for events and shopping I have done for blog posts, I also just recently did a post on Favourite Wearables because that is the most awesome addition to SL. 

I do like RLV and what it adds to peoples experiences, I have had some great times helping customers by notecard back and forth because they were unable to IM, but I did also IM their significant others to let them know that all communication was commercial assistance based, just in case. 

 

\o/ Favourite Wearables FOR THE WIN !!!

Oh I am aware that I might have irritated certain people. but part of the reason for the post was to inform both sides of things they might not have known and for them to then decide what they wish to do about it. If it is a big deal to them or not if those things are done. Trust and 'communication' are important.

9 hours ago, Roxy Couturier said:

As far as the various 'cheats' go, if a sub is using a cheat to get around restrictions, then what is the point of playing along at all? As a submissive, the sub that cheats, is missing the point of patience. If it's a matter of 'too many restrictions' then either talk to your Dominant or runaway. Just be honest. If you are a Dominant, why would you care about this? Either trust your sub or don't have them in your collar. Trust is a two-way street.

toward the cheats, why do it? because you can, this is common mindset of a lot of people. This post just lets more people know that they exist and then have to decide how they want to deal with it. it brings into question of how much you really can trust your sub. how well do you communicate your desires and respond to theirs.

it's not about losing out on patience, it's about choice, I just gave those who read this more choice in how they decide to play along. brats likes to be mischievous and I just gave them the power to do so even more. It is not ever just about one side or the other in what that side wants out of the relationship. now knowing  this they have to decide how much they want to actually make the relationship work or not. will they get upset or not or discuss it and the implications of doing it and how it might affect the relationship.

yes communication is key and important within any relationship, but not a lot of people do understand this at times and either just jump into a relationship or jump out of one when things are not how they expected instead of trying to work things out. 

Trust should be a two-way street but in some relationships it's not and often the sub thinks they have no choice in the manner at all because they were told so and just accept it without question.

By revealing this I brought into consideration that a dom really does need to get to know their sub and make sure they are a proper match for each other. As to why some might care, well simple.. some are more domineering then dominant. And really it is not that you have them in 'your' collar, but they have you in 'their' collar. For the collar ultimately belongs to the wearer of the collar. their submission 'is' a gift that they can remove at will or choice but some dominants do not believe this or try and claim otherwise. that the sub is inferior or only their to serve them and their needs and desires.

2 hours ago, Alyona Su said:

I find it SO FUNNY that "RLV" is shorthand for "BDSM D/S KINKY SEXPOT SLAVEGURL" for a lot of people LOL

*I* *USE* *RLV*... to change my clothes with the CTS Wardrobe. That's about it. NONE of the OP is relevant. Which makes it a lot of hot air to me, an RLV user. Bahahahaha!

To some it is, rlv is the a major basis of the relationship. to some it is not it is just a tool or enhancement to the relationship.

And that is your choice on how you use it, and all the post did was provide more choices for those who might use it for other reasons and then make some have to consider about those choices and how it may or may not affect the relationship.

2 hours ago, CoffeeDujour said:

From a developers perspective, cheating out of or around RLVa restrictions is par for the course. There have always been creative ways to get around specific restriction combos. That in many ways is the point and why the list of specific restrictions is so long. It would be much easier for us to add a command like @do-everything=NO and call it a day :P

This is all par for the course with D/s relationships in SL, control is never absolute and a little mischief adds an important dynamic to any relationship.

The ability to impose scary RLV is often seen and used as a way to impose or qualify trust, when really it should be about communication and expectation. Sadly, a lot of RLV play in SL is ALL OR NOTHING. If someone applies all the locks and leave their play partner with no reason to log in aside from stare at the screen and await attention, then it really shouldn't be a surprise when that results in "cheating".

An important and often missed point is that being locked up is for the most part a whole lot more fun than enduring the locks.

Assumptions like "they still have IM and can chat" should not be taken as a given as they really might not have or care to spend their time at a dominants mercy forced to choose between boredom / talking to other people. If a locked-up playmate switches to lumiya / radegast then maybe don't take that as a lack of submissive fortitude on their part.

For the most fun, we recommend you lock hard and often, the tighter the restrictions the shorter they all stay, and under no circumstances leave the same combinations/everything in place for ever.

Oh .. and RLVa has never just been about the kink, there are many commands that have only limited utility in an adult naughty fun setting. Want to script the camera with full control to repeat the same motion over and over, say for .... film making, we got that !

Oh this was not just about cheating, but just to inform those who use rlv of other possible uses that some users may be doing. Yes some may see it as cheating, and some may just see it as a brat being mischievous or disobedient and maybe wanting more attention because they feel like they have not had enough.

I agree it should not be an all or nothing thing, but there are many within SL that do see it in that manner. There is no dynamic, its their way or the highway. obey completely or else.

yes for some its a measure of trust, that if they cheat out they are not trustworthy, usually these people have trust issues themselves because of other experiences in life maybe inside or outside of sl. so they try to impose their will and choice on others without any care to how that other person feels. 

Being locked should be about the fun, the excitement the 'what will happen next' but for some it's just a means to control or cull users on who is trustworthy or not. who takes the relationship serious or doesnt. Again they probably have trust issues themself from previous experiences or are seeking some sort of karmic retribution against others because they cannot do it to the one that did it to them.

yes just because they use another client doesn't mean they are not a sub, it just may mean that is what they have to use at that time for where they are at. I was just pointing out how those different clients may use rlv and what can be done on them.

Unfortunately there are a lot of dominants in sl that think longer is better, or total and longer is better. that tpe means they get to be a jerk about how they treat their sub and their sub just has to endure it or be called a failure at being a sub. yes I know that tpe is normally for slaves, but for this instance I am going with the acceptance 'that all slaves are subs, but not all subs are slaves' so using sub a general term to refer to someone who might be submissive, be it by being a sub or slave.

Oh, I know it's not just about kink, there are parent huds where parents use them to tp their children back home at bedtime. or for clothing management or to help fight against objects being removed on teleport because of sim lag. It has lots of possible use outside of just kink related activities.

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13 hours ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

Oh I am aware that I might have irritated certain people. but part of the reason for the post was to inform both sides of things they might not have known and for them to then decide what they wish to do about it. If it is a big deal to them or not if those things are done. Trust and 'communication' are important.

I understood, that was why it was adorable lol, the people that just appreciate the information on expanding their usage would be all good.

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On 1/8/2019 at 7:26 AM, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

The first is a little known fact that even if a sub or slave has been stripped and their inventory has been blocked there is still a way they can get dressed without have to safeword or turn off rlv in firestorm. 

RLV is just an adjunct to dominance.

Of course, thanks for raising it, but I am really of the opinion that any dominant who couldn't effectively handle such an event doesn't deserve to have submissives. And on the other side of this coin, any submissive who thought to do it without a decent reason (eg: landing in a G rated area) doesn't deserve to have a dominant.

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23 hours ago, CoffeeDujour said:

The ability to impose scary RLV is often seen and used as a way to impose or qualify trust, when really it should be about communication and expectation. Sadly, a lot of RLV play in SL is ALL OR NOTHING. If someone applies all the locks and leave their play partner with no reason to log in aside from stare at the screen and await attention, then it really shouldn't be a surprise when that results in "cheating".

An important and often missed point is that being locked up is for the most part a whole lot more fun than enduring the locks.

An important and often missed opportunity for further play is bargaining with the person that locked you or some other Dom/me to be unlocked. Will you then owe that person an unspecified favor? Will you need to perform some service or task to lift the restriction?

Turn lemons into lemonade.

21 hours ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

toward the cheats, why do it? because you can, this is common mindset of a lot of people. This post just lets more people know that they exist and then have to decide how they want to deal with it. it brings into question of how much you really can trust your sub. how well do you communicate your desires and respond to theirs.

it's not about losing out on patience, it's about choice, I just gave those who read this more choice in how they decide to play along. brats likes to be mischievous and I just gave them the power to do so even more. It is not ever just about one side or the other in what that side wants out of the relationship. now knowing  this they have to decide how much they want to actually make the relationship work or not. will they get upset or not or discuss it and the implications of doing it and how it might affect the relationship.

yes communication is key and important within any relationship, but not a lot of people do understand this at times and either just jump into a relationship or jump out of one when things are not how they expected instead of trying to work things out. 

Trust should be a two-way street but in some relationships it's not and often the sub thinks they have no choice in the manner at all because they were told so and just accept it without question.

By revealing this I brought into consideration that a dom really does need to get to know their sub and make sure they are a proper match for each other. As to why some might care, well simple.. some are more domineering then dominant. And really it is not that you have them in 'your' collar, but they have you in 'their' collar. For the collar ultimately belongs to the wearer of the collar. their submission 'is' a gift that they can remove at will or choice but some dominants do not believe this or try and claim otherwise. that the sub is inferior or only their to serve them and their needs and desires.

When starting out, getting to know someone and I'm interested, I may verbally impose one restriction or another with the expectation explained that it be continued. If they've cheated out or forgone whatever I've imposed the very next day, I assume they aren't interested in my continued attention. I do try to tailor it to their kinks. but if they show disinterest, it's their loss.

Let me explain that, I've been around the D/s scene in SL for nearly 10 years on both ends of the leash. I was sub to one of the best, I've had wonderful girls in my collar** that expanded my repertoire, as it were, and learned from the mistakes I've made. Many of my girls have been (or were in) in my collar for years. Two of my girls have gone on the become awesome Dommes in their own right, having their own subs for years. I've had my heartbreaks and disappointments and I've had my triumphs and love.

Indeed, there are those that are more domineering than dominant. I've encountered it, recognize it and I know my worth, as a Domme, in comparison.

So when I say to talk to your Dom/me or runaway (if you can't talk to your Dom/me then you should bail) I sincerely mean it from a place of long experience.

 

** Yes, submission is a gift, but you're confusing the item worn, the symbol of the deeper relationship of Collaring with the status of being Collared. Let me be clear, that when I accept being placed as owner of their collar worn, it then becomes MY collar they wear. Dominance is a gift as well (ask any of the plethora of subs looking and looking and looking for a Dom/me) and I don't bestow it lightly.

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17 hours ago, Callum Meriman said:

RLV is just an adjunct to dominance.

Of course, thanks for raising it, but I am really of the opinion that any dominant who couldn't effectively handle such an event doesn't deserve to have submissives. And on the other side of this coin, any submissive who thought to do it without a decent reason (eg: landing in a G rated area) doesn't deserve to have a dominant.

Ah but you are forgetting about Brats, brats like to disobey at times. so to say anyone that cheats doesn't deserve a dom/me is pretty limited way of thinking. Not all sub's obey all the time either just because they have a dom/me that may expect them to or has commanded them to. It is part of the dynamic of dealing with that and why they might have chosen to not obey. Its a two way street, not just the dom/me's way or the highway. it's the dom/me's that act in that manner that often have sub's that just leave them for being domineering at that point.

21 hours ago, Sasy Scarborough said:

I understood, that was why it was adorable lol, the people that just appreciate the information on expanding their usage would be all good.

I'm a brat by nature. I tend to find things that make things interesting. I am sometimes a sassy, snarky brat too so I keep any owner on their feet. And that was the meaning of this post, to make owners and other subs or brats be aware of these things. A brat has to keep things fun and interesting and what better way then to find ways around restrictions imposed by rlv. Teaching the owner that rlv should just be a tool and not the core of the relationship all the time like it is for some.

Revealing this was to in a means test the dom/me's out there. to see who can handle this and who cannot. Any dom/me worth being collared to should be able to deal with it and not lose their temper about it or they don't really deserve the brat or sub that they tried to take on.

11 hours ago, Roxy Couturier said:

An important and often missed opportunity for further play is bargaining with the person that locked you or some other Dom/me to be unlocked. Will you then owe that person an unspecified favor? Will you need to perform some service or task to lift the restriction?

Turn lemons into lemonade.

When starting out, getting to know someone and I'm interested, I may verbally impose one restriction or another with the expectation explained that it be continued. If they've cheated out or forgone whatever I've imposed the very next day, I assume they aren't interested in my continued attention. I do try to tailor it to their kinks. but if they show disinterest, it's their loss.

Let me explain that, I've been around the D/s scene in SL for nearly 10 years on both ends of the leash. I was sub to one of the best, I've had wonderful girls in my collar** that expanded my repertoire, as it were, and learned from the mistakes I've made. Many of my girls have been (or were in) in my collar for years. Two of my girls have gone on the become awesome Dommes in their own right, having their own subs for years. I've had my heartbreaks and disappointments and I've had my triumphs and love.

Indeed, there are those that are more domineering than dominant. I've encountered it, recognize it and I know my worth, as a Domme, in comparison.

So when I say to talk to your Dom/me or runaway (if you can't talk to your Dom/me then you should bail) I sincerely mean it from a place of long experience.

 

** Yes, submission is a gift, but you're confusing the item worn, the symbol of the deeper relationship of Collaring with the status of being Collared. Let me be clear, that when I accept being placed as owner of their collar worn, it then becomes MY collar they wear. Dominance is a gift as well (ask any of the plethora of subs looking and looking and looking for a Dom/me) and I don't bestow it lightly.

I had Domme that did that for me once. She helped me out of a problematic relationship and issue I was having at that time. I chose to allow her to make a request of me at some later date and time of her choice for helping me with that as repayment for her help. She even became my owner for a short time, but unfortunately rl keeps her too busy for her to be on sl much anymore.

Your testing the waters with that one restriction, and seeing if they will at least try for more than a day. that is completely understandable if either you or they were seeking or considering a possible longer term relationship. I have seen many that just jump in and jump out.. and I have seen many that just go balls to the wall with every restriction at the first chance and then leave them and expect the sub to just stay that way for days with little to no interaction as well. for a brat like me such extreme restrictions or long term with little contact brings out my snarky side the next time they see me. Most cant handle it at that point.

I didn't mean to seem like you were domineering maybe. Its just I have had a few that were..and it brings out the sassy/snarky side of me quickly when ever I think about it and what they tried to have me do..and some of the things I did do in those past times because of not knowing myself or my limits or my rights better. It makes me a little defensive at times when those feelings or memories come up.

There was a time I couldn't or I should say wouldn't runaway...because I believed it was wrong to do. That if I did I was a failure because that is what I had been made to think and believe. So there was no talking to my first Domme about things she did I didn't like... which is sort of why I can be a really snarky brat at times now. It has caused me to have a slightly jaded perspective on some things; but then again I learned a lot because of it to, not just about myself but about others.

I guess it was your terminology in how you called it YOUR collar that had me at first. But yes I do understand the symbology behind it, I understand fully about the true meaning of the two collars, the one worn that others see, and the one worn that no one sees that is around the heart. When a true relationship begins to form for some. I have it as a pick on my profile. You see it as Your collar because they gave their collar to you in a sense for you to hold it out of their belief in you. They are trusting You with their collar so you see it as Yours now because it is Your responsibility for what happens to them because they have trusted you enough to give that power to you.

I sometimes forget to turn my bratitude back down at times and lower the snarky level from 5 back down to a more easier dealt with 3 or so. It's sometimes hard when i don't really have someone that understands me much so I am left to my own devices. But such is how it is.

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On 1/8/2019 at 11:14 AM, CoffeeDujour said:

Oh .. and RLVa has never just been about the kink, there are many commands that have only limited utility in an adult naughty fun setting. Want to script the camera with full control to repeat the same motion over and over, say for .... film making, we got that !

On 1/8/2019 at 1:37 PM, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

Oh, I know it's not just about kink, there are parent huds where parents use them to tp their children back home at bedtime. or for clothing management or to help fight against objects being removed on teleport because of sim lag. It has lots of possible use outside of just kink related activities.

Okay. But again, about how RLV{a} can block viewer control of attachment points, defeating even Quick Preferences:Folder / Favourite Wearables, is there some practical use for that, outside of kink? If it's really all about the D/s thing, is there some substitute that would make everybody feel adequately D/s'd or whatever while still allowing just this specific feature to instantly add/remove scripted attachments? 

Or, if not, can we at least add a big warning pop-up, requiring anybody who blocks attachments to confirm that they surrender all rights to ever again complain about their own lag and accept responsibility for everybody else's problems? Because yeah, it's true, we let all kinds of crappy scripts loose on the grid--more's the pity--but wouldn't it at least be better if they came with warning labels?

 

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