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Weird things happening (harassment?)


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4 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Unless that person doesn't want to, in which case I sort of feel she merits at least moral support.

I can see standing your ground if you own the land, but standing your ground in a sandbox? What are you gaining by staying there? If you think the AR is pointless then there's even less of a reason to stay, because in all likelihood the griefer won't go anywhere as long as they're getting some satisfaction. Your being there is only prolonging the behavior. It won't change.

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3 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

I have NEVER felt as though I was leaving with my tail between my legs. I did what was appropriate. I filed a detailed AR with pic showing evidence of abuse. I then removed myself because there is no reason for anyone to stay where they are being abused.

Well, good. If you didn't feel that you were being forced out, then, well, really you weren't. You were employing an entirely sensible approach, and I'm certainly not going to criticize you for it.

But I think it's legitimate too for those who feel that they are being bullied to push back. Again, YMMV. Your sensible approach certainly makes for more peace of mind . . . unless you are sufficiently bothered by feeling harassed that just leaving robs you of that. And in that case, maybe it's actually more sensible to fight back, even knowing that you aren't going to "win."

8 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

I guess you did not read my other post in this thread about my experiences over the years. I too mentioned Ivory Tower as a good alternative as well as Builder's Brewery. And yes, both are policed by the owners quite well. 

No, I missed that. I'd forgotten about Builder's Brewery: I've used it also a few times in the deep, dark, distant past.

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2 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

 

And, again, for a new person, leaving is undoubtedly the best advice. Unless that person doesn't want to, in which case I sort of feel she merits at least moral support.

My question is, if that person doesn’t want to leave the presence of a bad actor, what does that tell you about his objective? Obviously not to avoid being griefed or whatever. You don’t hang around what you want to avoid.

So whatever you determine that objective is, is what you want to give moral support for.  

And what they want, looks a lot like revenge/justice. And I can’t give moral support while someone wastes their time trying to get blood from a turnip.

 

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2 minutes ago, Pamela Galli said:

And what they want, looks a lot like revenge/justice.

I can't blame anyone for wanting revenge or justice in these cases, but they aren't going to get it anyway. There's no point. If the Lab acts you won't know it. You will not be privy to any actions taken. There's absolutely no reason to stay unless you enjoy the abuse, which isn't likely.

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Just now, Pamela Galli said:

My question is, if that person doesn’t want to leave the presence of a bad actor, what does that tell you about his objective? Obviously not to avoid being griefed or whatever. You don’t hang around what you want to avoid.

So whatever you determine that objective is, is what you want to give moral support for.  

And what they want, looks a lot like revenge/justice. And I can’t give moral support while someone wastes their time trying to get blood from a turnip.

 

Pamela, I think it's entirely legitimate to suggest that a person who doesn't want to leave is being foolish. But the part I've highlighted above smacks waaaay too much of blaming the victim.

Let her decide how she wants to respond, without making utterly unnecessary and highly speculative judgements about her motivations. You're entirely free, obviously, to criticize her decision as a waste of time, counterproductive, or whatever. But it's unfair to assume that, because she doesn't want to follow your "sensible advice," she must be after "revenge" or something else that makes her sound a bit like a "bad actor."

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Just now, Blush Bravin said:

I can't blame anyone for wanting revenge or justice in these cases, but they aren't going to get it anyway. There's no point. If the Lab acts you won't know it. You will not be privy to any actions taken. There's absolutely no reason to stay unless you enjoy the abuse, which isn't likely.

Exactly. If justice was available, I would strive for it. But If I spent any time at all contemplating how much bad people have injured me in SL, I could not even bring myself to log in. When I advise someone who has experienced some minor irritation to move on, I know what The alternative is. 

Trying to get justice/revenge will just spoil your SL and profit you nothing. 

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12 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

Now what might be fun is if we all gathered at that sandbox and gave the griefer a taste of his own medicine, but then we'd just be vigilantes and subject to ARs ourselves.

Yeah, neither advisable nor really very ethical . . . but fun.

And it would make for a highly entertaining climax to a Thelma and Louise sort of SL movie/machinima. Perhaps we could have the guy who wanted to produce a movie about the death of Peter Rabbit direct it?

Edited by Scylla Rhiadra
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14 hours ago, BelindaN said:

This ^^^ locking you into an object is quite worrying?

What's the way out? What if you log out and back in at home for example?? Does it require a report to the Lindens???

See, this is why you need to take my Avatar Safety class (Caledon Oxbridge University, Sundays, 10 am SL Time).

If you get caged, you can:

  • Right click an object outside the cage and sit on it
  • Rez a cube inside the cage, sit on it, and edit it to position it and yourself outside the cage
  • Double click teleport to a spot outside the cage
  • Teleport to your Home or to another region
  • Log off and re-log at a different location

No, you don't have to report caging...or anything else, really, except theft of your account...to LL.

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21 minutes ago, Lindal Kidd said:

If you get caged, you can:

  • Right click an object outside the cage and sit on it
  • Rez a cube inside the cage, sit on it, and edit it to position it and yourself outside the cage
  • Double click teleport to a spot outside the cage
  • Teleport to your Home or to another region
  • Log off and re-log at a different location

No, you don't have to report caging...or anything else, really, except theft of your account...to LL.

But where is any of the satisfaction of giving the bully a taste of his own medicine? I was taught to treat others as they treat me, so I really need to learn how to cage people, Lindal. When is THAT class? 

:o 

Edited by norajulian
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41 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Let her decide how she wants to respond

I guess you think I have some control over how other people respond to irritations. I don’t. All I can do is tell them the truth: revenge may be sweet but you are not getting it. No, naming and shaming is not allowed here. No, forumites are not going to boycott that creator you are mad at. No, LL will not ban everyone who annoys you, and even if they did, they would not tell you. No, there is nothing whatsoever to be gained by engaging a griefer — it’s the old ‘wrestling a pig’ metaphor. 

Once in a while we get people who really do want to know how to solve a problem with someone, rather than seeing to it that they are punished, but not often. 

It would be helpful, since we get some version of this call to arms at least weekly, if everyone simply spoke the truth about how SL operates (see above), even if it isn’t what they want to hear. 

 

 

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The way I respond to griefers depends on my mood and the time of day. My reactions have probably run the gamut; from avoidance to going toe to toe in a pitch battle of words. The suggestions to simply avoid public sandboxes is totally sound. Unless you are in such a mood where you've already engaged with the person and leaving would make you feel like you're backing down and you don't want to.

This is not one of those situations which is black and white. If the OP chooses to AR, keep them blocked and sit while at the sandbox, this is her right. Nothing wrong or weird about it. She asked for advice, took what worked for her and left the rest. She may change her mind and decide to utilize some of the other measures described in time.

Don't see there's a need to get bent out of shape, call on 'truth and beauty, or cast aspersions on her motivations. Which honestly, is exactly as futile as choosing to continue going back to the sandbox. Perhaps you're courting drama.

Hilarious.

Edited by Musetta Fieschi
because spelling is a thing
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4 hours ago, Pamela Galli said:

No, there is nothing whatsoever to be gained by engaging a griefer — it’s the old ‘wrestling a pig’ metaphor.

 

Not going to a specific place because a specific griefer doesn't want you to is engaging the griefer by doing what they want.

I'd say the best thing for the OP to do is to learn how to neutralize the attacks to make the griefer feel impotent, while not doing anything in-world to acknowledge the griefer's existence.

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5 hours ago, Pamela Galli said:

I guess you think I have some control over how other people respond to irritations. I don’t. All I can do is tell them the truth: revenge may be sweet but you are not getting it. No, naming and shaming is not allowed here. No, forumites are not going to boycott that creator you are mad at. No, LL will not ban everyone who annoys you, and even if they did, they would not tell you. No, there is nothing whatsoever to be gained by engaging a griefer — it’s the old ‘wrestling a pig’ metaphor. 

Once in a while we get people who really do want to know how to solve a problem with someone, rather than seeing to it that they are punished, but not often. 

It would be helpful, since we get some version of this call to arms at least weekly, if everyone simply spoke the truth about how SL operates (see above), even if it isn’t what they want to hear. 

 

 

No one, least of all I, is going to question your commitment to helping people here, Pamela. And yes, it's important to give people the truth. You and others here have done that.

What is surely not necessary is castigating those who choose not to follow that advice, making fun of them in a side thread, or questioning their motivations without any real evidence.

Had this been someone who, being told that she's never going to be able to rezz a box on a parcel for which she didn't have permissions, continued to insist that she wanted to, you might have a point. Had the question even been "where can I work in a sandbox without being subjected to harassment," your frustration might be justified.

But it wasn't: it was explicitly "how do I deal with this griefer?" You're probably right: standing up to the griefer isn't going to end the griefing. But then, neither is your solution, which is to simply go elsewhere. So, in that context, the issue isn't "why won't she take the offered solution to her problem," because there IS no solution to it. Her choice isn't going to be "how can I best succeed": it's instead "how do I wish, given the available options that all lead to the same result, to deal with this bully?"

Your solution works for you, but then I'm guessing you don't often have to deal with sandbox griefers. Hers is, given her actual question, neither more not less effective than yours. And her motives in choosing one over the other aren't really something you can know. Maybe she just doesn't like being pushed around. 

Respect that choice. Given that her actual question here was about dealing with griefers, it's no worse than yours.

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8 hours ago, Lindal Kidd said:

See, this is why you need to take my Avatar Safety class (Caledon Oxbridge University, Sundays, 10 am SL Time).

If you get caged, you can:

  • Right click an object outside the cage and sit on it
  • Rez a cube inside the cage, sit on it, and edit it to position it and yourself outside the cage
  • Double click teleport to a spot outside the cage
  • Teleport to your Home or to another region
  • Log off and re-log at a different location

No, you don't have to report caging...or anything else, really, except theft of your account...to LL.

Yeah I know Lindal and I feel guilty for not finding time! But it's RL meal time so not easy!!! :)

 

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2 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

You're probably right: standing up to the griefer isn't going to end the griefing. But then, neither is your solution, which is to simply go elsewhere

Yes, in fact, avoiding going where you expect to encounter a griefer will end the griefing, unless you are wearing a tracking device. That’s why it’s not just my solution. 

 

Edited by Pamela Galli
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9 hours ago, Pamela Galli said:

All I can do is tell them the truth: revenge may be sweet but you are not getting it.

What underlies the desire to exact revenge? Usually, someone who has been harmed by another wants the other to understand the pain their actions caused for them. The attitude is "you caused me pain, now I want you to feel the pain too"!
Most people are not sadistic, wanting to cause others pain. They just want understanding for their pain.


Bringing this to those forum posters who post about a perceived slight, I can guaranfeckingtee you that if you sympathize with their pain FIRST, and then educate about the realities of what can be done the need for revenge will subside for MOST people and they will be more open to the reality of solutions. Why? because we have provided the understanding for their pain they are seeking from their offender, and this lessens the need for revenge.

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5 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:
1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

What underlies the desire to exact revenge? 

For newbies, maybe they think griefing looks fun and want to try it.

True, for some newbies...but I thought we're talking about people who are not newbie griefers, but are instead others who have usually been inworld awhile, experience a problem, and come to the forum with this problem.

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55 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

Has the OP said that she wants revenge? If not, why all the talk about revenge? I thought she said that she wanted to know how to deal with it in a way that doesn't mean having to leave that particular location.

There's only 2 things she can do.

Block/mute and derender. She can also pray the harasser doesn't decide to start an army of alts with the intent of continuing the bullying. 

OR

She can do all of the above and stay away from the areas she knows she may encounter the @$$hole.

It's up to her whether or not she wants to be a glutton for punishment. This is not me trying to insult her. This is me being blunt.

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