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Guys its 2019 what can we bring to SL this year

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3 hours ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

I realize this thread is about what WE can bring to SL, but i would really like to see LL fix the borked av you get when switching from an animal av to a human one. Why cant one shape smoothly change to normal without  body parts being distorted so you have to relog? 

You shouldn't need to relog.
Use the "Reset skeleton & Animations" option.

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38 minutes ago, Whirly Fizzle said:

You shouldn't need to relog.
Use the "Reset skeleton & Animations" option.

Where is that in Firestorm?

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On 1/1/2019 at 9:11 AM, Kyrah Abattoir said:

The problem for a new starter avatar is that, to make people use it it should be not only well made and documented, but also should come full perm and with a blender project ready to use.

There's "Ruth" and "Roth", the open source avatars. Blender files available. Free SL avatars available. Full Bento. I made Ruth into an animesh pathfinding character as a test. Worked fine. About 79 LI as an animesh character.

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On 1/2/2019 at 1:09 AM, Arduenn Schwartzman said:

P.S. I have a super secret project that's about to be released into SL this month that's by no means as much as a tech challenge as ray tracing shadows and reflections. Hope people will still like it.

It's March. What was it?

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What can we as users bring to SL? Higher standards.

  • Push mesh sellers towards making decent low level of detail models. At least for large objects. Shows should be juried both in normal mode and with the LOD factor set to 0. If it looks like total crap at LOD 0, you're out of the show. Also, make negative reviews on Marketplace about such stuff. No more see-through buildings.
  • Flag sellers whose in-world store link on Marketplace no longer has their store there.
  • If it has a script, make sure it doesn't use significant resources when not in use. I've seen vehicles that had a timer event running 20 times per second when parked.
  • Report ugly floating signs as abuse. SL's advertising policy prohibits FOR SALE signs that aren't attached to the ground, rotate, flash, or are more than 8m tall. I've seen a 64m FOR SALE sign floating in midair. It disappeared after an abuse report.
  • Doors and steps should be realistically sized. It looks terrible when off-scale buildings are side by side. New Babbage and New Berlin are strict about this,  and it really helps city builds.
  • Reasonable physics models. For a chair, a cube under the seat is acceptable. One random triangle is not.
Edited by animats

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10 hours ago, animats said:

It's March. What was it?

Sit scripts with which you can set up and adjust sit positions and rotations with rapid arrow key taps, rather than tediously clicking on "X+' or "Y-" dialog buttons with 2-second intervals between each click.

https://gyazo.com/32aa26463d99419f0960ccddaa5f4260

Edited by Arduenn Schwartzman
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20 hours ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

Where is that in Firestorm?

Pie menu: Right click your avatar tag -> Appearance -> Reset -> Skel & Anim
Context menu: Right click your avatar tag -> Reset Skeleton & Animations

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2 hours ago, Whirly Fizzle said:

Pie menu: Right click your avatar tag -> Appearance -> Reset -> Skel & Anim
Context menu: Right click your avatar tag -> Reset Skeleton & Animations

Good to know, thanks! I will try it.

 

IT WORKED!!! AWESOME! Thanks @Whirly Fizzle

Edited by Drake1 Nightfire

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Do note, Drake, that for simple skeleton issues you do not need to hit the one marked as Skeleton and animation. just Skeleton works fine.

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2 hours ago, Solar Legion said:

Do note, Drake, that for simple skeleton issues you do not need to hit the one marked as Skeleton and animation. just Skeleton works fine.

No, no, no. That's not how it works. You don't correct @Whirly Fizzle, she corrects you! :P

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3 hours ago, Solar Legion said:

Do note, Drake, that for simple skeleton issues you do not need to hit the one marked as Skeleton and animation. just Skeleton works fine.

If you're removing a Bento avatar, it's best to use "Reset Skeleton & Animations" because of this issue: BUG-40838 - [BENTO] Reset Skeleton is not enough to remove all traces of a previous Bento avatar

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22 hours ago, Whirly Fizzle said:

If you're removing a Bento avatar, it's best to use "Reset Skeleton & Animations" because of this issue: BUG-40838 - [BENTO] Reset Skeleton is not enough to remove all traces of a previous Bento avatar

Problem with that Whirly is that not everyone has that issue - it does not seem to affect all Bento avatars or avatar parts.

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Cheaper land. If land were cheaper, people would be more inclinded to start new projects. As SimCity used to say, lower taxes to encourage growth.

Also, I'd like better diagnostic tools and metadata. I'd like to be able to see where a given bone is and how it's affecting a mesh item, or what something's physics shape actually is. The current options (what I can find anyways) is an unusable blob (for avatar debugging) or completely unhelpful (looking at physics or bounding boxes).

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Land prices are not set by Linden Lab, Tier prices are and with the increase of Tier allowance on Premium accounts, they have effectively reduced that cost by a small amount.

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On 5/19/2019 at 2:00 PM, JonC Weatherwax said:

Cheaper Land Tiers!

For premium accounts, that was done in April 2018 via doubling the tier allowance (as Solar said). If you're talking about private/estate regions, there was a price cut in July 2018. LL won't reduce their income from land without offsetting it in other ways, so everyone become premium and buy more from the Marketplace ... the land price cut you want is up to you!

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8 minutes ago, JonC Weatherwax said:

Are the land impact and prim limits set on Mainland?

Let's please NOT increase those until there's progress on sim performance with modest script loads.

(I think it's merely coincidental that the now widespread collapse of the Scripts Run metric seemed to start when those prim limits were raised, but regardless: right now the majority of regions are not keeping up with their scripts. Whatever the cause, currently there's really not the spare capacity we used to think we had.)

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On 2/21/2019 at 10:32 AM, Jackson Redstar said:

SL has been here since what, 2003? since then computers are like 50 times more powerful at least, graphic cards are blazing fast, most now have blazing fast internet speed, yet, rezzing hasn't improved much at all, and maybe gone done some because of all the complex mesh. It is true SL is more stable in general than in the old days, just not really any faster. and once you turn on the shaders and shadows still the same ol crap show.  Try being at a sim with 40+ mesh avatars with all the shaders on.

and one would think by now that sim crossings would be seamless too 

There's a reason for that. The complete and utter lack of optimization when it comes to user created content. You want SL to run better? You want mirrors and other high end features? You want to be able to run SL with all the shiny turned on with your gamer PC that already runs AAA games at max settings no problem? Lightning fast rez times?

 Then content creators need to start optimizing their work. Simple as. In fact, you can have all the rendering performance improvements and faster rez times right now, if you know how to optimize the content you own and make yourself.

The problem is, that is not going to happen unless LL makes it happen. And whenever anyone suggests ways in which LL can do this, even the most conservative methods that would allow people to keep all their current content and most SL residents wouldn't notice any change until years later when they were enjoying much better performance, the userbase throws a fit.

Edited by Penny Patton
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8 hours ago, Penny Patton said:

There's a reason for that. The complete and utter lack of optimization when it comes to user created content. You want SL to run better? You want mirrors and other high end features? You want to be able to run SL with all the shiny turned on with your gamer PC that already runs AAA games at max settings no problem? Lightning fast rez times?

 Then content creators need to start optimizing their work. Simple as. In fact, you can have all the rendering performance improvements and faster rez times right now, if you know how to optimize the content you own and make yourself.

The problem is, that is not going to happen unless LL makes it happen. And whenever anyone suggests ways in which LL can do this, even the most conservative methods that would allow people to keep all their current content and most SL residents wouldn't notice any change until years later when they were enjoying much better performance, the userbase throws a fit.

There're more reasons to it. So no need to focus on "but the creators!" that badly. Yes, they are responsible too, especially when someone releases a 1m triangles decor set that everyone grab and put to their home, but it's not just them.

SL suffers from the similar problem that many old "games" do, most notably multiplayer/mmo ones. The "engine". Now SL is not your average "game" or game at all, but that part is the same more or less. Take some old (really old) mmorpg, for example Lineage 2 (2003/2004 release date). It still lags on modern hardware when there's a lot going on. It uses only 1 thread/core. Then take Starcraft 2, a pretty basic looking (especially by today's standards) RTS from 2010. it does use 2 cores and yes, it also suffers from terrible fps in big battles, even on top hardware, with zero user created content.

You're not going to fix it with just better optimized content, not fully at least, it will be more of a band-aid solution. Not saying it wouldn't have any effect, it would, but viewer need some serious rewriting as well. To use at least 4 cores for starters, it already would make things much better for most people. I've seen LL are planning to rewrite how cache works, so that can hopefully help some too.

P. S.

You also want too much from the hobbyist creators. There are contless examples when professional developers release completely broken AA(A) game that they can't fix for months, if not years. One that crashes, suffers from poor performance even in closed hardware environment (consoles, where it's pretty much same specs for every user) and often make awful ports to PC, that "should" run times better, but end up unplayable. And that's paid developers with full-time work and at least some experience in creating things. You can't expect even fraction of that experience from usually a single person who does make something for SL in their free time, often for fun or to just to have some pocket money to spend in SL. Add too strict requirements and most will be gone, leaving the non-creators such as myself with poor choice and bad variety of products. No way LL would want that, ever.

Edited by steeljane42
typos

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19 minutes ago, KanryDrago said:

I invented lsl herpes thats my contribution

That ain't nuthin. I have LSLTBI.

Linden Scripting Language Traumatic Brain Injury

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On 6/20/2019 at 6:55 PM, steeljane42 said:

You're not going to fix it with just better optimized content, not fully at least, it will be more of a band-aid solution.

You are greatly underestimating the impact unoptimized content has on Second Life.

To put it in perspective, I have a 10 year old computer, but in optimized sims and only rendering optimized avatars I can run SL at Ultra settings and get a consistent 30+ FPS. Frequently around 60FPS. That's with no texture thrashing. No stuttering. And the environments all load lightning fast. And these are not ugly or simple environments.

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My SecondLife looks that good, all the time and runs better than what most people experience with brand new computers experience. Even my laptop with onboard graphics is able to run SL relatively well in these environments. Not at these settings, of course, but still, it illustrates how crippling unoptimized content is for the average person.

Meanwhile, if I go anywhere else in SL with those settings, aside from mostly empty sandboxes, I'm lucky if my fps is in the teens. Even with deferred rendering off, I'll still get constant stuttering and severe texture thrashing. And, of course, things take forever to load.

If you have a computer made within the past 10 years, with a low to mid range graphics card, and you're not able to make SL look at least as good as the above screenshots while maintaining 30-60FPS THAT is the impact unoptimized content has on your SecondLife experience. What's more, if you try and shove unoptimized content into a brand new rendering engine you'll run into the same problems because it still has to work with the same rendering hardware.

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And when people have optimized avatars, I can have 10-20 or so avatars with me in these environments and still not see a serious FPS hit. Meanwhile, it only takes one unoptimized avatar to drag my framerates right down and bring back texture thrashing and graphics stuttering. Just one.

Edited by Penny Patton

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On 6/20/2019 at 6:55 PM, steeljane42 said:

P. S.

You also want too much from the hobbyist creators. There are contless examples when professional developers release completely broken AA(A) game that they can't fix for months, if not years. One that crashes, suffers from poor performance even in closed hardware environment (consoles, where it's pretty much same specs for every user) and often make awful ports to PC, that "should" run times better, but end up unplayable. And that's paid developers with full-time work and at least some experience in creating things. You can't expect even fraction of that experience from usually a single person who does make something for SL in their free time, often for fun or to just to have some pocket money to spend in SL. Add too strict requirements and most will be gone, leaving the non-creators such as myself with poor choice and bad variety of products. No way LL would want that, ever.

And this is wrong, too, by the way. Optimizing SL content isn't difficult at all. If you have the skills to create SL content, you already have the skills to optimize that content. The reason nobody does is because few SL content creators know why they need to. LL doesn't explain it to them. There's nothing preventing them from uploading framerate killing content. It would not take much at all to nudge content creators into making better optimized content. You can do it without getting so strict it would drive people out of SL, but that's the boogeyman people always bring up.

The analogy to broken AAA game releases isn't accurate at all. The reason you occasionally see a game released in a sorry state like that is due to said game being rushed to market, often while those working on the game are doing so under terrible working conditions including massive amounts of mandatory overtime. And the performance issues are typically due to problems with the game engine, not unoptimized content.

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