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Emuna Zamani

Is Body-Shaming aThing in SL or Are Some Just Too Sensitive?

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When I was new to SL and had a relatively cheap and unheard of body/head/face (I think it costs $500 lindens for the whole package, outfits included.), I received mostly positive praise but there were several people who told me that it was a terrible looking avatar and that I was a "noob".

I didn't let it bother me a bit - but it certainly exists.

I have since moved on to better things, and consequently spent many dollars in the process. 

 

I didn't buy a new body, head, face and clothing because of that, so I suppose my point is to play SL for your own enjoyment and tell those who would attempt to make you feel bad for the way your avatar looks to get bent :P

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How do you get bullied in SL? Just block and leave the sim on the first sign of anything that bothers you if you're that sensitive. 

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32 minutes ago, purrrkitten said:

How do you get bullied in SL? Just block and leave the sim on the first sign of anything that bothers you if you're that sensitive. 

Unfortunately a lot of ways, there are situations that you cannot block, mute etc, work related bullying  with a few sides of that employer, employee, customer, owner etc, social circles of which there are so many offshoots. One person can really hurt your experience, and even worse if a group, I have seen people mention they have been stalked, followed place to place, heckled, lied about, fake IMs and the like, that is all bullying as well. It may not start out so obvious or people fear being seen as too sensitive so do not act on it, and just hurt, sometimes losing the good is worse than tolerating the bad, so they do, because there are many reasons people are so much a part of Second Life and to lose it because of the power of one or more people, over the good that it brings to your life, hard decisions.

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7 hours ago, Akane Nacht said:

I think bullying is a better term too, but there are also different definitions of bullying.

Someone may think an IM from a stranger telling them they have an embarrassing glitch in their appearance is bullying. Someone else may only think it's bullying if it's in open chat in front of others. Plus we really can't tell what people in chat mean - it may be well-intentioned advice badly worded, or language differences.

Anyway, we all know the drill - if it's really bothering us, ignore/mute/report.

   We don't always know when we are glitched in the eyes of others, especially with the whole having-all-attachments-on-the-right-hand thing that may cause glitches when we teleport. If you feel inclined to mention to someone that they're bald and think that their hair may have come off during TP, it's an issue of how you express it. 'lol why u bald' may not be the best approach, perhaps it's by choice - perhaps it's someone who's in chemo in RL and wants to project what they're going through into their SL. Maybe they'll be inclined to tell you about it, or maybe they'll be upset and feel mocked. 'Excuse me, you don't appear to have any hair on my end - I don't know whether that's by choice or if your attachments have glitched, but I thought I'd let you know just in case' would be a more emphatic way of expressing it, and if it is by choice then they'll still see where you're coming from with your approach - but then again, there are people who will throw a fit over this too. 

   It's the same with if you notice someone is flashing - a lot of people don't seem to care or notice, but if you're dancing in a short skirt and haven't alpha'd the nethers or put on knickers, well, you don't have to be a pervert to pick up on someone flaunting themselves. Should one send them a discrete IM letting them know that their bits are showing? It feels like the decent thing to do, to me - but then again, some people might do it because they want 'that' kind of attention and scold you for not finding it 'hot'. 

1 minute ago, Sasy Scarborough said:

Unfortunately a lot of ways, there are situations that you cannot block, mute etc, work related bullying  with a few sides of that employer, employee, customer, owner etc, social circles of which there are so many offshoots. One person can really hurt your experience, and even worse if a group, I have seen people mention they have been stalked, followed place to place, heckled, lied about, fake IMs and the like, that is all bullying as well. It may not start out so obvious or people fear being seen as too sensitive so do not act on it, and just hurt, sometimes losing the good is worse than tolerating the bad, so they do, because there are many reasons people are so much a part of Second Life and to lose it because of the power of one or more people, over the good that it brings to your life, hard decisions.

   I'm gonna go ahead and disagree with this. If your work environment is such, that you may not block someone who is harassing or bullying you, you're working at the wrong place. If you feel socially obliged to allow someone to take a verbal dump at you, you're hanging out with the wrong people. One must be truly delusional to call someone a friend, if one can't move out of harm's way for their sake. No one is in SL against their will. What and who you are in SL is entirely up to you.

   SL, more than RL, offers equality of opportunity. Anyone who has the ambition to do something in SL can do so with minimal RL resources needed. SL is free, there are free animation programs (Qavimator), picture manipulators (Gimp), 3D modelling programs (Blender), media portfolios (Flickr) - by the point you can afford a computer, the electricity and Internet connection to be in SL, you've essentially got all the tools you need to achieve virtually anything. To work for someone who is abusive or unkind, or to congregate with people who are apathetic to you, is one's own choice. If one is prone to allowing oneself to be manipulated and deceived, well, to quote the founder of the philosophy I live by; 'It's too bad stupidity isn't painful'. Second Life does not offer some paradisaical utopia where one is entirely free of individual responsibility for oneself - you chose how much you tolerate, and what people you want around you. Just like in reality. If one can't suffer the 'evil' of people being people, it's time to wake up and look around at the world we live in - not what Eden of Social Justice people claim we 'should' live in. What would that even entail in SL? LL banning anyone and everyone who ever hurt someone? Well that's going to clear the grid pretty fast.

   Be nice to people, if you want to be treated nice. If people start off by not treating you nicely, learn how to bite back or how move on. Being a victim may garner some empathy from those who can relate to your situation - but it's never going to move you forward, in fact it's going to risk grounding you in your subsistence and make you accepting of it.

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2 hours ago, purrrkitten said:

How do you get bullied in SL? Just block and leave the sim on the first sign of anything that bothers you if you're that sensitive. 

I could be wrong but it seems like you have not had to deal with someone who was hell-bent on making your SL experience unpleasant. They will create alt after alt, use all types of grief types tools and scripts. It is exhausting for the person that they are trying to bully. In some instances, the bully wins because the person gets tired of blocking alt after alt and filing complaint after complaint. I know of many people that have abandoned accounts and SL businesses.

Just because it has not happened to you does not mean it isn't possible. It also isn't a matter of being sensitive. Anyone would grow tired of this battle.

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3 hours ago, Sasy Scarborough said:

I have seen people mention they have been stalked, followed place to place

I saw those posts too and that's because they are wearing something that's giving away their location. 
 

1 hour ago, Emuna Zamani said:

I could be wrong but it seems like you have not had to deal with someone who was hell-bent on making your SL experience unpleasant. They will create alt after alt, use all types of grief types tools and scripts. It is exhausting for the person that they are trying to bully. In some instances, the bully wins because the person gets tired of blocking alt after alt and filing complaint after complaint. I know of many people that have abandoned accounts and SL businesses.

Just because it has not happened to you does not mean it isn't possible. It also isn't a matter of being sensitive. Anyone would grow tired of this battle.

If you're this sensitive, stay off the internet.

RL bullying is far, far worse, btw.

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18 hours ago, purrrkitten said:

What in the world???

When did I ever say I have ever said anything to anyone about their avatar?

I mind my own business. How someone chooses to look in SL is their choice.

If I like someone's avi, I will compliment them. If I don't like their avi, I don't say anything. 

Genuinely confused as to why I'm getting attacked for something I've never done. 

Welcome to the forums. I'll add my rolling eyes emoji when I get home from work.

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Gabriele Graves said:

Not everyone is as confident about their choices or have as much self-esteem about themselves to just shrug off people taking time out of their day just to be horrible to them without having feelings about it.  It is bullying and bullies often say their victims "are being too sensitive", "it shouldn't bother them" or "they ought to toughen up" to justify their behaviour.  Nobody has a right to tell anyone that they are wrong to have feelings about being bullied.

It's great if you personally feel that it doesn't bother you and you can ignore it but nobody should expect everyone else to feel the same way.

Being horrible to people about their personal choices can certainly invoke feelings of shame in a person for having their preferences.
My vote on the OP is that it is in the broad category of bullying and could be definitely described as "shaming" if it makes you feel that way.

These are our avatars which are our representation in a virtual world, a virtual body, the concept is very well entrenched therefore it is quite reasonable to call it "virtual body shaming" or "body shaming" in the context of the virtual world.

I prefer bullying as the term.

 

I've had people attack me over my body/style choices more than once, but I look at them and think really? The only disaster around here is you.

Then I thank them for their concern, wish them a nice day, say something negative about how they look, and mute them.

😁

Edited by BilliJo Aldrin
changed stuff
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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, purrrkitten said:

I saw those posts too and that's because they are wearing something that's giving away their location. 
 

If you're this sensitive, stay off the internet.

RL bullying is far, far worse, btw.

I feel the reason why some are close-minded to unfair treatment in SL is because they keep comparing it to RL or some other unfair treatment that also happens in SL.

I am a person of color that has experienced racism. That DOES NOT mean that I can not empathize with anyone else that is not my ethnicity that has experienced some sort of unfair treatment. That would be selfish and even arrogant for me to behave as though what I have dealt with is worse than what anyone else has faced.

You do not know what some people have been through that log on to SL in order to socialize, create or whatever else they choose. Some people are not able to leave their homes due to whatever reason. Telling them to stay off the Internet is like telling them to possibly cut the only connection that they have to others. I refuse to take part in that ever again.

Edited by Emuna Zamani
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Emuna Zamani said:

I feel the reason why some are close-minded to unfair treatment in SL is because they keep comparing it to RL or some other unfair treatment that also happens in SL.

I am a person of color that has experienced racism. That DOES NOT mean that I can not empathize with anyone else that is not my ethnicity that has experienced some sort of unfair treatment. That would be selfish and even arrogant for me to behave as though what I have dealt with is worse than what anyone else has faced.

You do not know what some people have been through that log on to SL in order to socialize, create or whatever else they choose. Some people are not able to leave their homes due to whatever reason. Telling them to stay off the Internet is like telling them to possibly cut the only connection that they have to others. I refuse to take part in that ever again.

Do not compare someone not liking your SL shape to racism.

And to answer your original question, yes. You're too sensitive. A virtual body cannot be body shammed, it's not real.

Edited by purrrkitten
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4 minutes ago, purrrkitten said:

@Emuna Zamani

Why did you make this thread if you didn't want differing opinions? I'm just wondering. 

I am going to respond to both of your statements in one post if that is okay.

Number 1 - Why do you continue to say that I am sensitive? The reason for me starting this discussion was not because anyone said anything to me. It came about due to a conversation that I had with a friend about how some feel in Second Life when it comes to their avatars. I stated that in one of my posts already.

Number 2 - I value anyone's opinion as long as they are being respectful which you have been. At the same time, you should allow me to give my opinion in return.

With that. I think that we have probably come to a point to let it rest. We see things very differently on this topic.

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it's the intent of the bullies/shamers which counts here, not the fact that we are just pixels on a computer who can mute, log off tp away etc.

the intent to cause another person (because there is a live person sitting at the computer) discomfort or shame that is what is counted.

i never get upset when someone attempts to troll me , i ignore or mute, but that doesn't excuse their troll behavior, because my avatar is not real. 

body shaming, racism etc it all exists in sl even if we are a virtual world

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Darcy Kingmaker said:

it's the intent of the bullies/shamers which counts here, not the fact that we are just pixels on a computer who can mute, log off tp away etc.

the intent to cause another person (because there is a live person sitting at the computer) discomfort or shame that is what is counted.

i never get upset when someone attempts to troll me , i ignore or mute, but that doesn't excuse their troll behavior, because my avatar is not real. 

body shaming, racism etc it all exists in sl even if we are a virtual world

Yes, it's the intent that matters. It's always fascinated me how some people feel the need to reach outside of their own lives in order to spend time, money and energy in an effort to make someone else feel bad. My feeling is that the tendency to do so here is the same impulse which causes people to participate in 'shaming' in real life. Not just lack of empathy...but a discomfort with themselves that is so strong, when they see people who embody whatever personal issue paining them, and that person seems happy or content; the shamer feels the need to try to transfer some of their own baggage onto the other person. An "i'm not okay that you've found a way to be at peace with yourself when i haven't figured out how to be at peace with myself. you should feel humiliated...let me help" reaction.

The threshold for poor behavior is lower here and I've noticed people give themselves license to say and do things to others they would never have the guts to stand behind in real life. So in some ways the tendency to shame people is worse here than in rl. The only good thing is that the effect is often (though not always) mitigated by the fact we're not standing face to face with the perpetrator. Most of us are able to shine them on, particularly if they don't manage to hit on something that is a pre-existing hot button for us. 

Edited by Musetta Fieschi
because spacing is good
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To no one in particular but important, what I realised a long time ago when involved in situations that involved someone else on the attack, was that the difference in RL to SL life is that we are in our homes, 99% of the people (made up number so Sasy rule always has to be odd) logged in are sitting inside their houses, some are in their bedrooms, some in offices, some just laying on the living room floor possibly surrounded by their families, no family, friends whatever the case, the important part is that it is their home, they cannot get up from a cubibcle and walk away, no HR to deal with it. No other bar down the road they can ask their bestie to go to instead. There is no escaping the situation in the moment/

While it may feel like logging off is the answer, and sure, in some cases it can be, but when it isn't it isn't and even when it is, your home has changed, you are unsafe there now, you feel different, you may get up and go wash the dishes but as you do that you are thinking about what just happpened, you may be in the situation that you can go for a walk - again not everyone can - and blow off steam that way,  sure that is great, but some can't, some can't even pick up the phone and call their whomever and vent, sometimes people are just alone.

Online and RL are the same thing, the person typing, talking, scrolling whatever is in RL the disconnect is not possible for most people, and I don't think that even if it was a switch people could just flick that as many as anyone thinks would flick it. Some people are newer to online, some people their only dealings with the internet is joining Second Life, they have no 'tools' for coping, and the hundreds I have met over the years that have come from places that mean they have never even had RL interactions enough to be strong enough, never worked, never dealt with others at all. 

It is not easy to just walk away, if it was bullies would not have anything to do. 

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~static and hissing sounds~

Sticks and stones can break my bones but words will never hurt me ~wrong, yet at the same time true.

Words spoken or written have no power or meaning other than what the listener or reader attributes to them. ~wrong, yet at the same time true.

 

what man does not understand he seeks to control,

what man cannot control he seeks to destroy,

what man cannot destroy he fears and calls evil.

Man fears to live for live backwards is evil.

 

What does all that  mean? Well it's simple there are various groups within this thread and each have their own view of what the meaning and use of certain words are, both sides will continue to argue their side is correct and refuse to accept that they may be wrong. When in fact they are both wrong and correct at the same time. But they cannot understand that so seek to control what others think about it, and when fail try to impose or destroy the othersides view or right to that view, but when they find out they cannot, they fear it and shut down and refuse to realize that both sides of the equation are equally wrong and correct at the same time.

Yes, these are not real bodies, but yes again, people are being bullied/shamed having their emotions and feelings or thoughts abused for the choices they make about them. Yes they could just try and ignore it and move on, but again it hurts when constantly having it done by random people just because they are annon behind a nick on a screen and think it gives them the right to be a jerk in how they treat others. At some point a line has to be drawn and they have to be told it is not acceptable just because they want it to be able to or claim it should be just because this is virtual and not real as in a face to face meeting between the individuals.

Sl =/= RL aka second life is not real life and nothing said or done here can hurt anyone. ~Wrong, yet true at the same time.

Everything we say or do here has some effect on someone else behind the screen, it may anger them or hurt them or make them happy and feel good about themselves. These choices we make and the choices they make can have real life effects on people emotionally, or mentally or psychologically. Which can lead to physical problems from stress and anxiety and depression. Yet there are many people who cannot understand this or simply refuse to because they do not want to hold themselves or be held accountable or responsible for their behaviour or actions in this virtual world of fantasy and make believe. They want to live out their fantasy even if it means being a total jerk because they would not ever have the courage to do so in real life. When anyone calls them out on their actions they become defensive because they are afraid changes may happen that might eventually limit them from being able to be that jerk, taking away their new found fun and freedom from rl rules and responsibilities. Their fantasy or experience would be lessened for them and that is all they really care about, not how some stranger feels about what they said or did.

Basically these kinds of people would be classified as antisocial or sociopathic, they lack understanding and empathy for others because they either never were shown it themselves or never learned how to yet. so they believe their behavior is acceptable or should be and anyone offended should just turn the other cheek or block/mute/derender and move on. Just accept it, just deal with it, just allow it, just go with it, just flow with it, do nothing to change it. Because if anyone did do anything or caused anything to be done, then their level of fun and enjoyment based upon what they consider fun would or might be severely curtailed. So they will come in defend their right to be a jerk like its a badge of honor to do so.

Now onto the other side, yes getting hurt is a choice, yes getting angry is a choice, yes letting someone bother you 'is' a choice and we can all make the choice to not let it happen. But should we do this, we teach those that do it that its ok for them to continue to behave in this manner. So it becomes a moral and ethical dilemma, and thus causes even more issues for most here do not like having anyone else's morals or ethics or values imposed upon them for any reason at all. So again it comes down to ignore or stand up and say 'no, not acceptable' and be seen as the possible outcast by those who want it continued to be allowed because they seek numbify people toward the experience making it and others similar to it more accepted and the norm. Each little slight or abuse they can make someone numb to is another thing they can then use and take advantage of them or others with because its become the accepted norm behavior.

Fun for the sake of fun. Enjoyment at any cost. Pleasure for the sake of pleasure no matter who gets hurt or used or abused in the process. "As long as I get my fun, who cares!"

Does abuse happen in sl? Yes. Does bullying/shaming happen in SL? Yes. Should it be allowed or tolerated or accepted? That is for you to decide and not really for me to tell you. Chose wisely, for how you chose may affect someone's life in a major or drastic manner that could have far reaching impact and effect on others lives outside of SL, which if ever learned was caused because of things within SL could then cause  problems and changes to be forced upon SL by outside forces.

~We now return you to your normal fantasy broadcast~

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The real world has lost its frakking mind with overly sensitive "feelings" that is making it so a person cannot have a differing opinion for fear it will hurt someones feelings.. and now it appears that this insanity is slowing creeping its way into SL. Who cares what a persons avatar looks like?!? I change mine all the time to suit a person I'm spending time with.. if my avatar is taller than a gentleman friend's avatar, I make mine shorter or taller whatever the situation calls for. I change skins and hair styles to please a special person.. I don't say "You are body shamming me!" and run away to my "safe space".

It's just Second Life. Leave the dramatic in rl, if you want to have a good sl experience.

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Posted (edited)

I said some pages earlier that I do ridicule people with ridiculous caricatures of human avatars (like the "invisible pony rider", the carp mouths, the carrier arses, the giant boobs, or the male avatars with too short arms but muscles over muscles) -- however: I myself don't count this as body-shaming, simply because wearing these kinds of shapes on one's avatar is a choice one makes intentionally. If the person behind this avatar reacts offended by my sarcastic or ironic remarks about their avatar - well, their bad. They did intentionally choose to give their avatar this kind of shape after all, so they more or less asked for it. And to be honest, each shape of those newbie outfits in our library is way better proportioned than these caricatures of an avatar.

In real-life though it's something entirely different, simply because nobody chooses their real-life body-shape intentionally. For example, overweight (which is most often the case with body-shaming) can be caused by an eating disorder (which almost never is a choice, no matter what some people say) or by some severe thyroid dysfunction (which absolutely never is an intentional choice either), and so on. So, there is absolutely no reason nor excuse for me to make remarks about others.
However, what I do in RL is, I occasionally do question cases of very poor fashion taste (like, if someone wears an outfit where the parts don't match together at all, by all means), and even that only in private -- as in, 4 eyes only: that person and me -- and as cautious as I can. Because which clothes one wears usually is their own intentional choice, and choices can be questioned.

Edited by ThorinII
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I read this whole thread, and I can't believe nobody's said it yet.

Sometimes a stupid hat is a stupid hat. If you choose to wear it, people are gonna talk, and they're not always going to say nice things.

But you know what's awesome? It's not illegal to wear stupid hats. I can wear a stupid hat all day, no matter what people say to me or about me. It's my hat, and I like it.

No different in SL. My avatar is as stupid a hat as they come.

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The real issue is that some people like to play victim about everything and constantly look for ways to do so, and then they get mad when others don't play along with their delusions. 

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8 hours ago, Walelu Summerwind said:

The real world has lost its frakking mind with overly sensitive "feelings" that is making it so a person cannot have a differing opinion for fear it will hurt someones feelings.. and now it appears that this insanity is slowing creeping its way into SL. Who cares what a persons avatar looks like?!? I change mine all the time to suit a person I'm spending time with.. if my avatar is taller than a gentleman friend's avatar, I make mine shorter or taller whatever the situation calls for. I change skins and hair styles to please a special person.. I don't say "You are body shamming me!" and run away to my "safe space".

It's just Second Life. Leave the dramatic in rl, if you want to have a good sl experience.

????

What in the even? I..have you...even  read the thread beyond the original post? Because this response seems very far removed from the reailty of the thread.

people aren't "Fleeing to safe spaces" or  getting overly sensitive over  opinions, They're talking about people who constantly harass or spout abusive words like, "Urgh you're such a *****king  disgusting thing, go buy a decent avatar or log off you *****ing  hag."

Nobody's saying don't have an opinion or "your bodyshaming me :(" They're saying don't be a dipweed and don't curse-out or harass someone over their avatar. Heck I change my avatar allot,  though certain things stay the same.  I'm still gonnacl out idiots who throw tanturms over how my style doesn't cater to their exact whims.

 

Not  opinions, Tanturms, abuse and harassment. There is a difference.  and if more then one person has called you out on. ..maybe the problem isn't them but your so-called "opinion".

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48 minutes ago, AylinVali said:

????

What in the even? I..have you...even  read the thread beyond the original post? Because this response seems very far removed from the reailty of the thread.

people aren't "Fleeing to safe spaces" or  getting overly sensitive over  opinions, They're talking about people who constantly harass or spout abusive words like, "Urgh you're such a *****king  disgusting thing, go buy a decent avatar or log off you *****ing  hag."

Nobody's saying don't have an opinion or "your bodyshaming me :(" They're saying don't be a dipweed and don't curse-out or harass someone over their avatar. Heck I change my avatar allot,  though certain things stay the same.  I'm still gonnacl out idiots who throw tanturms over how my style doesn't cater to their exact whims.

 

Not  opinions, Tanturms, abuse and harassment. There is a difference.  and if more then one person has called you out on. ..maybe the problem isn't them but your so-called "opinion".

Personally, my dear... I don’t really care. I have an opinion just like everyone one on this forum. Are you “post shamming “ ? I don’t have a safe space, so I’ll just have to say go bugger off in a nice way, of course 

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9 hours ago, Walelu Summerwind said:

The real world has lost its frakking mind with overly sensitive "feelings" that is making it so a person cannot have a differing opinion for fear it will hurt someones feelings.. and now it appears that this insanity is slowing creeping its way into SL. Who cares what a persons avatar looks like?!? I change mine all the time to suit a person I'm spending time with.. if my avatar is taller than a gentleman friend's avatar, I make mine shorter or taller whatever the situation calls for. I change skins and hair styles to please a special person.. I don't say "You are body shamming me!" and run away to my "safe space".

It's just Second Life. Leave the dramatic in rl, if you want to have a good sl experience.

There will always be feelings within sl for some people. And yes you should be concerned how you act and if it bothers someone, if not it shows you to be a shallow person here and more than likely in real life as well. for most people no matter how much they claim to just be playing a role are mimicking what they really are in real life or how they wish they could be but dont have the courage to because of social constraints. 

A lot of people take pride in what their avatar looks like, to them it is an extension of them from real life. It is not just some fantasy they are exploring. So when they are mocked or ridiculed it does hurt them. And no it should not be acceptable for this sort of behaviour even here in sl.

Just because you are willing to be a people pleaser and change to suit whatever the need or situation of who you are with does not mean everyone else should be or has too, just so they do not get attacked for how they choose to look.

Sl is not just SL for some people, it is their link to other people and thus does have a deep and emotional impact on them(which can lead to dramatic events because that is how life works), to say it should not shows how callous you are.

9 hours ago, ThorinII said:

I said some pages earlier that I do ridicule people with ridiculous caricatures of human avatars (like the "invisible pony rider", the carp mouths, the carrier arses, the giant boobs, or the male avatars with too short arms but muscles over muscles) -- however: I myself don't count this as body-shaming, simply because wearing these kinds of shapes on one's avatar is a choice one makes intentionally. If the person behind this avatar reacts offended by my sarcastic or ironic remarks about their avatar - well, their bad. They did intentionally choose to give their avatar this kind of shape after all, so they more or less asked for it. And to be honest, each shape of those newbie outfits in our library is way better proportioned than these caricatures of an avatar.

In real-life though it's something entirely different, simply because nobody chooses their real-life body-shape intentionally. For example, overweight (which is most often the case with body-shaming) can be caused by an eating disorder (which almost never is a choice, no matter what some people say) or by some severe thyroid dysfunction (which absolutely never is an intentional choice either), and so on. So, there is absolutely no reason nor excuse for me to make remarks about others.
However, what I do in RL is, I occasionally do question cases of very poor fashion taste (like, if someone wears an outfit where the parts don't match together at all, by all means), and even that only in private -- as in, 4 eyes only: that person and me -- and as cautious as I can. Because which clothes one wears usually is their own intentional choice, and choices can be questioned.

intentional or not, it may have been a deep personal choice to why they chose to look that way, to just call them out on it can show a lack of understanding or empathy or care toward someone else. And no they didn't ask for anyone to just be an insensitive jerk about it either. the person being the jerk chose to be that way because they like doing it.

the main point of this entire thread was not about those who do in secret or keep it to themselves it is about those who do it openly in local or group chat in attempt to get a rise out of the person they are doing it to. To purposefully make that person feel bad about their choice in how they look., which is a form of shaming/bullying/abuse. Those who attempt to say otherwise just do not want their ability to do so to maybe be curtailed taking away their fun from doing it.

In real life we do choose how we look, by how we eat and exercise and what clothes we choose to wear. Your questioning their fashion sense can be considered rude, because maybe to them that is the fashion they like.

Choices can be questioned as well as the behaviours of those that question the choices of someone they may not know at a personal level.

1 hour ago, purrrkitten said:

The real issue is that some people like to play victim about everything and constantly look for ways to do so, and then they get mad when others don't play along with their delusions. 

People who like to throw around the anti-victim-card excuse are usually the types of people that do exactly what this thread is about aka sociopathic. It has nothing to do with someone being delusional at all. To some people who and what they look like in SL has a very deep personal meaning and to just discredit it because you don't agree with it shows your lack of empathy or understanding or willingness to understand. "oh they are doing that just because" "Oh they just want attention" Same can be said about those that shame/bully/abuse they are doing it just because they like getting the rise out of the person they are doing it to. And when called on it get all emotional about it too and then have to defend their actions like they are now the victim.

4 hours ago, Gadget Portal said:

I read this whole thread, and I can't believe nobody's said it yet.

Sometimes a stupid hat is a stupid hat. If you choose to wear it, people are gonna talk, and they're not always going to say nice things.

But you know what's awesome? It's not illegal to wear stupid hats. I can wear a stupid hat all day, no matter what people say to me or about me. It's my hat, and I like it.

No different in SL. My avatar is as stupid a hat as they come.

Just because you might call it a stupid hat does not mean they see it as a stupid hat. so to talk openly in local or group about it shows a lack of care for others feelings. and that is what this thread was about. people who just call what someone else wears a stupid hat and then expects them to just accept it and let it roll of their back like it doesn't matter at all, which it might to that person. People have emotions and feelings and those emotions and feelings do translate over to SL and how they may choose to look. To just toss that way shows how little a person cares about what someone else feels or thinks.

Just because SL is virtual does not mean real emotions and feelings are in play by a lot of the people that are here.

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1 hour ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

Just because you are willing to be a people pleaser and change to suit whatever the need or situation of who you are with does not mean everyone else should be or has too, just so they do not get attacked for how they choose to look.

Sl is not just SL for some people, it is their link to other people and thus does have a deep and emotional impact on them(which can lead to dramatic events because that is how life works), to say it should not shows how callous you are.

Are you serious???? I am callous for telling ppl to lighten up so that they will have an enjoyable SL experience??? Yes, I do like to please my friends because it brings pleasure to me. I don't mope around and whine about how ppl are body shaming my avatar in a virtual world.(weird) .. Maybe I'll create a fat, blue-haired, enormous glasses wearing avatar so I can experience this so called virtual body shaming thing that's being discussed.. who knows, maybe I'll love the misery and drama. But, no thanks. I'm a rational, mature person who doesn't give a lot of %#*@s about what ppl think of my avatar. There's way too much drama over stupid sh*t that doesn't really matter when looking at the big picture. SL is a lovely escape from reality where IF you happen to be body shamed in RL, you can be drop dead gorgeous in SL. Why bring your RL problems to SL when you don't have to? Don't bring low self esteem and victim hood to SL. They just don't mix well. Just be happy and have fun. That's not a hard thing to do on SL.. that is, unless you have emotional/mental issues in rl. Lighten up, don't be so serious about things that cannot happen in SL and just have fun.

 

 

Edited by Walelu Summerwind

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1 hour ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

People who like to throw around the anti-victim-card excuse are usually the types of people that do exactly what this thread is about aka sociopathic.

   Sociopathy, eh - now there's a big word. Do you even psychology? 

   The 'anti-victim-card' isn't a thing. Victim Mentality is, Victim Playing is; a person who frequents those mindsets need help from a professional psychologist, not enabling by some entirely fundamentalist empathy. People who are real, actual victims of traumatizing events don't need a bunch of random people patting them on the back, they need to be given proper coping mechanisms. 

   But perhaps you think that principle is more important than reality. It doesn't matter how well-meaning you may be, but your philosophy in this regard would only be harmful in the long term to the victims - in fact, I'd go as far as to call it selfish; you getting to feel good about pretending to be a white knight at the cost of the rehabilitation of those you claim to stand up for; now there's something we can start calling sociopathic.

   To quote an actual psychology journal on the topic: "Victim mentality is a psychological term that refers to a type of dysfunctional mindset which seeks to feel persecuted in order to gain attention or avoid self-responsibility." - do you feel this is something you want to enable, because it feels nice to 'be nice', whilst giving you an outlet to vent your own frustrations on those you perceive to be at fault (even though in the vast majority of cases, one will never actually seek out the 'offender' to get their side of the story). 

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