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KarolinaKatt

Multiple crashes

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REcetnly my Firestorm has been crashing more and more frequently. Last days more than once every fifth minute. This forced me to make a totall uninstall - cleaned everyting - and install the new Firestorm Beta. But this behaves exactly the same. I have Windows 10 Home edition. I have set all graphics to low, my cache to max, it still crashes badly. I cant no longer do anything in SL. Does anyone have an idea what is happening? I am now practiacally unable to run SL and it is very sad.

The crashes are weired. Parts of SL is first stopping. I notice it is about to chrash when I cannot open profiles, I can rotate my avatar, but not move in any direction. No IM is reaching me and I am probably not able to send IMs either, despite it is looking like that. After some minutes the screen goes grey and a pop up tells me it has crashed.

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Well, ISPs are known to blow off customers will difficult problems. For them to say they don't see anything wrong when tracert doesn't work... well DUH!  They are blowing smoke at you. The ISPs often point fingers rather than spend the time to find and fix a difficult problem.

That ICMP routing is difficult to explain may be true. But, that it is the primary means of testing a connection and it is a simple it works or it doesn't. So, why doesn't it?

I am guessing Sweden has some agency that oversees businesses. Some are likely specifically tasked to handle Internet issues. In the USA we have several. So, if an obvious tracert failure is not being handled, start complaining to those agencies. Include your tracert outputs and SL tests. At some point your ISP will fix the problem as you are consuming more time than fixing the problem.

Your tracert should look something like this, but in reverse: (I can't reach your final IP as it is behind a firewall)

C:\WINDOWS\system32>tracert 65.99.185.249

Tracing route to 65.99.185.249 over a maximum of 30 hops

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.1.1
  2     7 ms     7 ms     8 ms  [redacted]
  3     9 ms     7 ms    10 ms  [redacted]
  4    10 ms    11 ms    12 ms  [redacted]
  5    10 ms    11 ms    11 ms  ae55.bar2.SanDiego1.Level3.net [4.16.106.5]
  6     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  7    40 ms    40 ms    39 ms  ae-1-11.ebr5.Dallas1.Level3.net [4.69.134.18]
  8    58 ms    59 ms    60 ms  ae-41-41.ebr2.Atlanta1.Level3.net [4.69.209.237]
  9    59 ms    61 ms    59 ms  ae-1-11.ae-1-11.ebr1.Atlanta1.Level3.net [4.69.214.93]
 10    79 ms    82 ms    71 ms  4.69.217.78
 11     *        *       72 ms  ae-1-11.ebr4.Washington1.Level3.net [4.69.204.254]
 12   149 ms   150 ms   149 ms  ae-40-40.ebr2.Paris1.Level3.net [4.69.137.173]
 13   169 ms   157 ms   163 ms  ae-50-50.ebr1.Frankfurt1.Level3.net [4.69.132.122]
 14   162 ms   163 ms   167 ms  4.69.163.146
 15   166 ms   161 ms   161 ms  ae-49-49.ebr1.Dusseldorf1.Level3.net [4.69.163.94]
 16   191 ms   188 ms   196 ms  ae-50-50.ebr1.Stockholm2.Level3.net [4.69.133.106]
 17     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 18   183 ms   186 ms   180 ms  212.73.250.254
 19   178 ms   178 ms   178 ms  213.80.86.225
 20   179 ms   178 ms   178 ms  213.212.14.50
 21   189 ms   193 ms   190 ms  65.99.185.249

Trace complete. - 1/9/2019 11:04 AM PST

 

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Thank you Nalates!

I will call my ISP up as soon as I can. 

The 65. etc address is the ISP servers. Obviously their firewalls works well :)

I still cant get out of this 65. area, when running TRACERT, so I guess they have a firewall in that direction also.

Still I CAN run SL over wifi at both my home router and via mobile hotspot. So that indicates a problem with the router, dosen't it?

On the other hand I can prevent SL crashes by simply make a TP when I notice it is coming. This confuses me.

By weekend I will reset my router again, if I find time. Turning all stones......

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It could indeed be your router.  There have been several cases in the past of a particular brand or model of router having issues with SL.  Is there any way you can borrow a different router for a day or two?  (If your ISP provides the router, this can be a trickier problem!)

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4 hours ago, Lindal Kidd said:

It could indeed be your router. 

If you have a separate router rather than a router that is built in to your modem, there's an easy way to find out if the router is misbehaving.  Just bypass it temporarily.  Take the cable from your computer and plug it directly into the modem so that the incoming and outgoing signals don;lt even see the router.  If it works, you know that it's time to replace the router.  My own router died last weekend, so this is still fresh in my mind.  ;)

Just remember not to bypass the router permanently.  For one thing, you will not be able to make a wireless connection without the router, so equipment that depends on wifi will be out of luck (like your TV maybe).  More importantly, your router acts as a mechanical firewall to protect you from some kinds of hacking.  These days, you need all the safety nets in place.

BTW, a new router will cost you anywhere from about $25 to over $200, depending on the bells and whistles you want.  Routers typically have a lifetime (or obsolescence time) of three or four years, so keep that in mind as you shop.

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Ohh I dont understand these quote-functions. I think I messed up something for you Rolig...

But thank you Linda and Rolig for replys. I should have been thinking of using the cable directly. I have been doing that two years ago when the router was new and there where problem wiht the ISP.  But now I did and I have used SLfor at least 15 minutes now without being thrown out. I cant let the router be down much more, we have several items in house depending on it, but I think I have enough to call the ISP and ask for another router (it is the ISP property)  No I will reset the router totally once more first, otherwise I will be ordered to do that.

Another question just out of curiosity. When running TRACERT on 11.1.0.1 (mygod is it the US DoD I've been pinging???) I always got four jumps before timeout. Now, without the router, I get three. That feels quite understandable. But when using TRACERT on some other address, like one of the Atlanta addresses in Nalatie's TRACERT above, I come all the way to the goal. What is the difference?

But for now SL feels very stable and I am very happy. Hopefully all you guys in here have helped me to pinpoint the error. I am soo thankful for all helpful people. 

Now what about the bug reports to Firestorm and SL? Shoudl I remove them directly or what to do? My question how I could save from crashing by making a TP, still remains. I have problems to see how that can be fixed by the router.

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5 minutes ago, KarolinaKatt said:

My question how I could save from crashing by making a TP, still remains. I have problems to see how that can be fixed by the router.

When you teleport, you are asking your viewer and the SL servers to exchange a larger than normal amount of data.  The SL servers are doing most of the heavy lifting as they transfer your avatar from the control of one region to another, but there is still extra communication that has to go on for that brief period.  If your connection is unstable, it can be losing enough packets of information to garble the data and force a disconnection.  The router is perhaps the weakest link in the chain of cables and devices between you and SL, so that's a usual suspect.  As I said earlier, routers have a finite lifetime.  Heat and simple aging degrade components, so it really is necessary to replace routers every three years or so.  Fortunately, they are relatively inexpensive.

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3 hours ago, Rolig Loon said:

  If your connection is unstable, it can be losing enough packets of information to garble the data and force a disconnection.  

Well I crash out from SL if I do NOT TP away. So the TP is making Firestorm to avoid a crash. If I do not TP, then I will crash. By making the TP I can stay in SL until it crash next time. But thats not a way to go, I cannot TP every teo-three minutes, lol.

I have also now totally reset the router to factory settings once more and found that it did not help.

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On 1/11/2019 at 5:42 PM, Lindal Kidd said:

It could indeed be your router.  There have been several cases in the past of a particular brand or model of router having issues with SL.  Is there any way you can borrow a different router for a day or two?  (If your ISP provides the router, this can be a trickier problem!)

I have same issues for 5 years now. I cannot stay online more than 5 minits on a place where there is 5 avatars or more. Some told me i have a script on my avie. May be from my ex partner. My sl name is Briana Sirbu

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9 minutes ago, Briana Sirbu said:

 I cannot stay online more than 5 minits on a place where there is 5 avatars or more. 

Thank you Briana. Do you, just like me, notice in advance when SL starting to crash for you? If so, have you tried to TP to another place before the crash? My problem is only when on ethernet cable - not when on my home wifi network,

Edited by KarolinaKatt

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@Briana Sirbu

You cannot have a "script on your avie".  Scripts are ALWAYS and ONLY contained in objects.  If you think something on your avatar is causing the problem, start taking off attachments until the problem goes away.  You can still wear your skin, shape, hair base, eyes, and layer-type clothing, but remove object attachments such as hair, shoes, jewelry, mesh body parts, mesh clothing...anything that has the symbol of a little cube in your inventory.

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I found out that I can check bandwidth in different ways. And I get VERY different readings on the upload. (Now I do not have a clue of what this means but..) On the uploads I get around 3 Mbit/s when testing on the HTTP variant, while I have 113 on the Websockets variant. Downloads are over 100 on both.

Can someone please help me understand.

1) Is this something that can produce the crashes in SL? (But both ethernet and wifi shows similar results)

2) What is causing this difference? Can I do or check something on my router? (I have recently reset it fully)

 

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On 1/9/2019 at 10:18 PM, KarolinaKatt said:

Still I CAN run SL over wifi at both my home router and via mobile hotspot. So that indicates a problem with the router, dosen't it?

On the other hand I can prevent SL crashes by simply make a TP when I notice it is coming. This confuses me.

If WiFI and a mobile provided hotspot work, I would suspect a cable or router socket as a problem. Try a new cable.

If you are using a phone to create a hot spot (access point) it may be using the TelCo's network. You'll have see if it is connecting via your WiFi or the TelCo data plan.

HTTP vs Websockets is getting pretty deep in the weeds. SL runs on HTTP. So, I don't see where sockets-IO is going to help.

Have you run a tracert using the WiFi connection?

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Thank you Nalates!

10 hours ago, Nalates Urriah said:

If WiFI and a mobile provided hotspot work, I would suspect a cable or router socket as a problem. Try a new cable.

I get the same results with both my PC and laptop with different cables connected to different ports on the router. 

10 hours ago, Nalates Urriah said:

If you are using a phone to create a hot spot (access point) it may be using the TelCo's network.

The hotspot is the same Netgear router that transmits the problematic ethernet. And I am in Sweden so I do not use TelCo.  And I get internet via an optical fibre. At home I never use phone as hotspot.

 

10 hours ago, Nalates Urriah said:

HTTP vs Websockets is getting pretty deep in the weeds. SL runs on HTTP. So, I don't see where sockets-IO is going to help.

It is my HTTP readings at upload that are extremely low. Websockets gives good results. Are you sure there cannot be any problem there? 

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11 hours ago, Nalates Urriah said:

Have you run a tracert using the WiFi connection?

Sorry forgot: The answer is Yes I have. Same result. I have discussed earlier in this thread that pointing to other addresses than that 11.1.0.1 is jumping all the way to target and does not stop at level 4. Here is result for Tracert 4.16.106.5

 1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  www.routerlogin.com [192.168.1.1]
  2    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  65.99.187.1
  3     2 ms     2 ms     2 ms  65.99.185.249
  4    16 ms    16 ms    16 ms  94.246.65.94
  5    14 ms    15 ms    14 ms  213.212.14.49
  6    16 ms    16 ms    16 ms  213.80.86.224
  7    16 ms    15 ms    33 ms  sesto1024-rc2.ip-only.net [213.80.86.6]
  8    18 ms    18 ms    18 ms  lag-150.ear2.Stockholm2.Level3.net [212.73.250.253]
  9   187 ms   223 ms   187 ms  ae55.bar2.SanDiego1.Level3.net [4.16.106.5]

This is measured via my problematic Ehternet, not wifi.

Edited by KarolinaKatt
Correction

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At this point you have stumped me. All the things we might fix and your ISP could point to have been tested and seem ok. The fix falls to your ISP.

That jump in hop 8 to 9.... I'm not sure what is up with that. I go through 10 routers going from San Diego to Stockholm. 

We see very nearly the same travel time for me to you and you to me. 

I have no idea what is going wrong. Have you heard from your ISP and LL?

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Thank you Nalates

I have a very bad Karma now. I have been in touch with so many support caused by different problems that I cant remeber it all, but basically I have been in touch wiht ISP and they have checked - nothing wrong. LL has closed the issue, I got no reply. Netgear told me i was one month too late, or they could have exchanged my router (you see what I mean....).

I think - like most here - that it is my router. But I am very confused since I can avoid being logged out (see for the first time I did not write "crash") by making a TP. I cannot afford buy a new router by chance. And i have no other router to try either. So I guess I have to deal with it for some more time.

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9 hours ago, KarolinaKatt said:

Thank you Nalates

I have a very bad Karma now. I have been in touch with so many support caused by different problems that I cant remeber it all, but basically I have been in touch wiht ISP and they have checked - nothing wrong. LL has closed the issue, I got no reply. Netgear told me i was one month too late, or they could have exchanged my router (you see what I mean....).

I think - like most here - that it is my router. But I am very confused since I can avoid being logged out (see for the first time I did not write "crash") by making a TP. I cannot afford buy a new router by chance. And i have no other router to try either. So I guess I have to deal with it for some more time.

If your router is just recently out of warranty, keep yelling at them. They may give in and give you a router or sell you one at discount.

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On 1/25/2019 at 1:16 AM, Nalates Urriah said:

If your router is just recently out of warranty, keep yelling at them. They may give in and give you a router or sell you one at discount.

*Sigh* - I did try....

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I have still not solved it, Been stuggeling with a very unwilling ISP support for long time. For myself I have tested and tested. I still have an extremely low upload speed for HTTP, but not for Websocket. And since i understand Second Life (and some other applications) does use HTTP, I need to get this fixed first before I can go buy a new router. Problem is that upload is the same low wheter the router is connected or not.   
And i need to say that I have used the word "crash" incorrect. I am getting logged out from SL. I am very sorry, But i get the logged out message. I think the low upload does things to SL so it cannot sync wiht the high download in some way.  (But im only guessing....)
I will make more efforts to clear this low upload speed out as soon as possible.

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I had hoped that with any luck things would improve today... But, the main channel on the grid is not getting updated. So...

Changing from 'crashing' to getting 'logged out' means this may be the problem.

If you last about 15 minutes then get logged off... you could be one of the ones getting bitten by this problem. Not many are, so it is hard for the Lindens to get a handle on. Some have tried to replicate the problem but, no luck.

Experimenting with this problem on ADITI grid we've been able to predict when the one suffering from the problem would poof. It is like a timer going off. He avoids the logoff by teleporting at 14 minutes... not an ideal solution.

Look in the Viewer's HELP->About... to see which channel you are in. If it does not say Blue Steel, Le Tigre, or Magnum in the region name then you are in the main channel. If you are getting bumped from the main channel try hanging out in an RC region; Blue Steel, Le Tigre, or Magnum. If you are premium, you can use the sandboxes with those names. Otherwise, you can try Denby, which I think is currently in Le Tigre channel.

If this type of log off is what is happening, file a JIRA Bug Report and mention Caleb Linden. He will know who to point at the report. And include a link to this thread. Time, date, and region name need to be as precise as possible.

@Whirly Fizzle This thread may interest you as they are getting logged off rather than crashing as the title says.

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Thank you Nalates

When on ethernet from my router I cannot stay online more than one-two minutes before getting logged out. - unless I do not TP, as i talked about earlier. 

About> help shows me at .agni.lindenlab.com (if this is what i was  to look for) - and i seem to get logged from everywhere.

But it sure sounds similar. I still wait for the ISP to fix a struggeling network, hten I will consider getting a new router. I am only baffeled that the TP saves me from crashing. At the moment, I give it 75% chance it is the router - too vague to just go buy another.

I will try to keep looking at that thread you sent me, though. It is insteresting.

Thank you Again Nalates! I appreciate all help.

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3 hours ago, KarolinaKatt said:

Thank you Nalates

When on ethernet from my router I cannot stay online more than one-two minutes before getting logged out. - unless I do not TP, as i talked about earlier. 

About> help shows me at .agni.lindenlab.com (if this is what i was  to look for) - and i seem to get logged from everywhere.

But it sure sounds similar. I still wait for the ISP to fix a struggeling network, hten I will consider getting a new router. I am only baffeled that the TP saves me from crashing. At the moment, I give it 75% chance it is the router - too vague to just go buy another.

I will try to keep looking at that thread you sent me, though. It is insteresting.

Thank you Again Nalates! I appreciate all help.

agni.lindenlab.com is the server the simulator is running in.

Second Life RC BlueSteel 19.02.16.524516 is the simulator version. This is 3 or 4 lines after the server ID.

Good luck getting it fixed.

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Ive been having the same problem myself for a week or two now, its been very frustrating. I'm using Singularity but I also tested it and it happens when I'm on Firestorm too (different computer too). Happens on different sims/regions and all different times of the day. Where can we go to file the bug report? The issue has made SL practically unusable.

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