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37 minutes ago, SteffiiSugabum said:

I don't need to re-read them. 

If the item in question is for use in SL, it is, by virtue of being in SL, consensual, regardless of name.

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48 minutes ago, Serenityfirefly McMahon said:

You have no right to try play yourself a victim of another victim. We all have bad we have gone through. It does not give you the right to become an agressor and try make it a pathetic competition. Respect is a given till someone shows otherwise. You treat others with how you'd like to be treated. If not then it is not one way for you and one for another. She never told you you didn't you made it all about you and tried to silence her in victim competition. So stop trying to portray yourself an what you have been through as more important then what someone else has been through. It Is Not a Competition. So get over yourself. What you lived with 40 years of it?? Again making what you have been through different to what someone else has been through. You wanna talk about years? Ok soo you wanna go on about years. OK.. both mine and steffs top the amount of years you have been through. YOU have no empathy or understanding instead of trying to show that or kindness to someone thats still struggling through it you would think your years you have gone through it would show you a way to help others and have a bit more thought since you know.. You have been there an all. Grow up, the only one that has tried to make a manopoly out of it is you. Get over yourself seriously. Start using your own experiences of what you have been through to try lighten up someone elses life instead of tearing it down. 

Good effing grief. Get off your high horse. Nothing you said here is the truth. But I'm sure you'll find some way to twist this post around as an attack on you and/or Steffi. 

I don't need to justify myself to you or anyone else. You do not know more about me than I know about myself. In fact, you know nothing at all about me. Which shows just how judgmental you are based on nothing more than a handful of paragraphs that spoke a message you (and Steffi) completely misunderstood. I help people. every. day. I just don't mollycoddle them the way you would have me do. Mollycoddling does NOT help. It hinders. You may think I don't know wtf I am talking about. You couldn't be more wrong.

Life isn’t easy, but that’s why you have to be tough, why you have to be bigger than your feelings. Don't be the vocal minority that found a good cause to take too far in search of a meaningful pursuit. You are causing more harm than doing good.

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54 minutes ago, Serenityfirefly McMahon said:

So purposely going an finding someones land on sl after disliking her posts are for what purpose. Just letting you know i seen you near her land. 

I have no freakin idea what you are talking about.  If you ever saw me anywhere in SL it would simply have been due to me Shopping, doing a Hunt or general Exploring.  I almost never look anyone up inworld and never intentionally go to their places unless it is part of one of the previously mentioned activities.

 

56 minutes ago, Serenityfirefly McMahon said:

It has happened i have heard of it. Children that grew up on sl or found a way to by pass into adult content under the age of 16 and when they were irl they did it.

If I had even a dime for every time I "heard" about something on the internet that folks claim to be true that actually was true.  That is like saying 'my brother's girlfriend's uncle's friend heard about xyz'.  I seriously doubt that any child came in to SL, saw a rape RP scene and then went out and tried it in RL.  

 

59 minutes ago, Serenityfirefly McMahon said:

Rape is not a roleplay or kink, anyone that says otherwise or acted it out is devoid of humanity or morals.

It most definitely is something that people role play in RL. Whether you like it or not, that is the flat out truth.  You can call them depraved, say they have no morals, whatever.  It makes no difference - it DOES HAPPEN IN RL.

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I'm reading a lot of rhetoric in this thread that seems to be pulled directly from FOSTA/SESTA and is the reason why things are going the way they're going on social media sites like FB and Tumblr. It starts with "think of the children" and "think of the victims" but when it's put into practice, we end up with 'no female presenting nipples' and that's not a slippery slope argument, that's what actually happened already and is continuing to happen all over the internet.

Like it or not, what's being argued for here is a move toward no nude skins allowed, no augmented genitals, and no adult content at all. Second life has a sex trade. We all know it and many participate (I, for the record, don't. Please don't assume I'm here defending parts of my own experience. This is bigger than any of our individual experiences). Some of that trade involves things certain people aren't comfortable with. For some, that's rape, for others that's sex at all. When you try to make a move to get rid of the parts of a virtual choose-your-own-path experience that make you feel icky, we end up in a situation like tumblr and facebook, we end up with attacks on marginalized (and in SL's case, marginalized-presenting) communities inside the site. When you start playing moralistic games, you're going to be joined by moralizers. Moralizers hate sex and moralizers hate the gays and moralizers hate women and them's just the breaks. 

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27 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

Good effing grief. Get off your high horse. Nothing you said here is the truth. But I'm sure you'll find some way to twist this post around as an attack on you and/or Steffi. 

I don't need to justify myself to you or anyone else. You do not know more about me than I know about myself. In fact, you know nothing at all about me. Which shows just how judgmental you are based on nothing more than a handful of paragraphs that spoke a message you (and Steffi) completely misunderstood. I help people. every. day. I just don't mollycoddle them the way you would have me do. Mollycoddling does NOT help. It hinders. You may think I don't know wtf I am talking about. You couldn't be more wrong.

Life isn’t easy, but that’s why you have to be tough, why you have to be bigger than your feelings. Don't be the vocal minority that found a good cause to take too far in search of a meaningful pursuit. You are causing more harm than doing good.

So your allowed to speak your truth and only it? Yeah keep trying to bs. 

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Serenity/Steffi... and Bliss...

Calm down, enjoy Christmas for what it is. A time to spend with your beloved family and friends and to count your blessings.

 

I wish you all the best for the season and I hope that your coming year is one filled with happiness and HEALING.

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Just now, Callum Meriman said:

Serenity/Steffi... and Bliss...

Calm down, enjoy Christmas for what it is. A time to spend with your beloved family and friends and to count your blessings.

 

I wish you all the best for the season and I hope that your coming year is one filled with happiness and HEALING.

Then calm yourself down with the trolling your accusing me of being steffi which i am not. Your not even bothering taking the time to read my previous post your just instantly flaming again. 

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1 minute ago, Serenityfirefly McMahon said:

Then calm yourself down with the trolling your accusing me of being steffi which i am not.

Then I will accept she is your sister and you have come to her defense. Although, when you added your words to Bliss' in the thread which predates this one

You were clearly not helping her, because look how she has been hurt here!!!

Look, my wish is genuine, as was my desire to help her from the start, which has earnt me bitten fingers from both of you for you for no reason.

I hope this festive season helps you both heal and find a bit of happiness in this sad life of abuse and hatred that we all suffer in.

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21 minutes ago, Serenityfirefly McMahon said:

So your allowed to speak your truth and only it? Yeah keep trying to bs. 

No where in any of my posts have I said or even remotely implied only I am entitled to free speech. If you haven't already crossed the line, you are bordering on gaslighting. That kind of tactic doesn't work on me.

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5 minutes ago, Callum Meriman said:

Then I will accept she is your sister and you have come to her defense. Although, when you added your words to Bliss' in the thread which predates this one

You were clearly not helping her, because look how she has been hurt here!!!

Look, my wish is genuine, as was my desire to help her from the start, which has earnt me bitten fingers from both of you for you for no reason.

I hope this festive season helps you both heal and find a bit of happiness in this sad life of abuse and hatred that we all suffer in.

Obviously you havent read my post, she is not my sister so go accuse and investigate better with your intent to harass us both. I will always help her in this forums case she is not the one that is in need of any help. So keep trying to paint your lies. Shows the whole of sl what your like. Neither i or Steffi want any help of the trolls on this thread. We so not need it. We have know who we are and how our own compasses point. Neither of us want your help either. 

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Just now, Serenityfirefly McMahon said:

Neither of us want your help either.

Then I can only wish you a Merry Christmas and hope that you can both find a way to overcome your demons. Just as so many of us have.

Be well Serenity. And to Steffi too.

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Just now, SteffiiSugabum said:

What you mean sock puppets? Lol... omg if you're saying we're the same person LOL no. If you want we will happily voice verify at the same time. Move our avatars around at the same time as we talk lol. I'm younger then Sere, we met in SL. My first ever account was actually queenbswag which you can find. I with people I trust have actually been on cam and voice. You can see my RL pic aswell on 1st life. 

Agreed, i will voice verify too. As it is almost 8am on christmas morning i am on lumiya afk finishing some last min stuff before going to my families so it will need to be later tonight. If your about steff would that be ok? Same, i reveal my rl and me usually to those close to me. I don't mind clearing up accusations up though

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2 minutes ago, Callum Meriman said:

Then I can only wish you a Merry Christmas and hope that you can both find a way to overcome your demons. Just as so many of us have.

Be well Serenity. And to Steffi too.

If you had you would not be involving yourself with people that do not want your help or involvement

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1 minute ago, Serenityfirefly McMahon said:

Agreed, i will voice verify too. As it is almost 8am on christmas morning i am on lumiya afk finishing some last min stuff before going to my families so it will need to be later tonight. If your about steff would that be ok? Same, i reveal my rl and me usually to those close to me. I don't mind clearing up accusations up though

Yeah later, or tomorrow being Christmas and all lol.

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Just now, Serenityfirefly McMahon said:

If you had you would not be involving yourself with people that do not want your help or involvement

I guess it's my fault for seeing someone in pain and trying to reach out to them. Sorry I failed.

Merry Christmas.

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1 minute ago, Callum Meriman said:

I guess it's my fault for seeing someone in pain and trying to reach out to them. Sorry I failed.

Merry Christmas.

You keep going back and fourth towards sucking up and being against us lol. Even with the lil emoji things lol. 

But yeaah lets ALL try to have a nice Christmas day! P.s offers there if you are convinced we are alts lol. There is such a thing as close friendship yey.

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Just now, SteffiiSugabum said:

Even with the lil emoji things lol.

Have I used an emoji? *reads back* Nope. Think you are confusing me with someone else.

1 minute ago, SteffiiSugabum said:

There is such a thing as close friendship yey.

Friendship is a wonderful thing, and a great healer. It's valuable, and something to be treasured and held on to.

All my best for Christmas, may you find the happiness and joy you are certainly owed.

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UUFFFF

This is some heavy thread and at parts I am really shocked how much more people put their "right to do what they like" above other peoples feelings, concerns and actual pain.

In general, I really do not like to ban stuff from SL it is a fantasy world to live out fantasies, but at some points, aren't there just natural red lines?

I heard that beast play is banned, but still finding groups and places for ***** role play. So LL rather sees these stuff loose and not like said before in this thread this will lead to ban spankers and stuff...

When I type in SL Search "rape" I get 1553 results!

I believe that in consensual RP everything is fine even in non-consensual-consensual, but finding groups, places and profiles all over SL who use rape as keyword, makes me serious frightened what this world has become.

Misogyne clubs and parcels.

Here some other group examples .

Quote

Women Deserve Misery

Founder : Shaun Stanley

Maturity :AAdult

Women do not deserve feelings or rights. Women are here to please Men despite their feelings as slaves to Men.

Women's minds, body, soul ... their emotions and feelings. Their possessions and their money belong to Men and Men alone. This isn't for the light-hearted, this is extreme slavery including financial Domination among many, many other methods of trap-slavery.

Women are only worth the value a Man puts on her but women are expected and require to crave their misery with enthusiasm.

Quote

women deserve no rights

Founder : leland Darkstone

Maturity :MModerate

do i need to spell it out for you? women are only worth what a man says. the are nothing but property and thus needs no rights.

Quote

Women Deserve No Rights!!

Founder : Nokomus Rahl (nokomus.sautereau)

Maturity :AAdult

"IF YOU'RE A DOMME, YOU WILL BE EJECTED" THIS IS NOT AN RP GROUP. IF YOU ARE LOOKING FOR ROLEPLAY ONLY, THERE ARE OTHER PLACES FOR YOU. WITH THAT SAID, YES WE DO ...

I miss the role play factor here and I just cannot understand why such groups are not removed instantly.

I do not think it really could be banned but I would like to see that LL takes a bit more care about what groups and places are about and ban at least some of the keywords to be used.

But see, so for one this is just to play out some real weird fantasy in a safe virtual environment but things go simply to far and over the fantasy and play range here for my taste.

 

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12 minutes ago, Garvin Twine said:

I just cannot understand why such groups are not removed instantly

Did you report them already Garvin? Yes, good; No, why not?

Cause the Lab don't sit there and scroll through everything, they don't have the staff. They have endlessly asked people report things that break the TOS/CS, they beg us to draw their attention to the small pockets of horror in this huge, exciting, wild-west world.

See something you believe breaks the rules as they are written, report it. It's that simple.

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3 minutes ago, Callum Meriman said:

Did you report them already Garvin? Yes, good; No, why not?

Cause the Lab don't sit there and scroll through everything, they don't have the staff. They have endlessly asked people report things that break the TOS/CS, they beg us to draw their attention to the small pockets of horror in this huge, exciting, wild-west world.

See something you believe breaks the rules as they are written, report it. It's that simple.

I did multiple times without result. It is that simple indeed!

And I do believe the Lab does have a responsibility to filter at least for certain things and act on that.

Edited by Garvin Twine
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Just now, Garvin Twine said:

I did multiple times without result.

Then the Lab have either not gotten to your reports yet (we know from Kristin they are incredibly busy) or they don't agree with you that this breaks the TOS/CS.

Either way, you did your part as they requested.

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Those groups, which to me are very distinct from designated RP groups, have been around for years. LL doesn't care. I guess their argument is that no women have to join them or stay in them. Which is true, of course, but God it's depressing that they won't display any degree of disapproval,  or take any action against, such absolute hate. It doesn't matter if there are no women in these groups, they're outright hate speech. Are there equivalent race hate groups saying that black or brown people should be enslaved and colonised? Or that Jews should be gassed? I certainly hope not. I'm guessing that if so, they don't exist in anywhere near as great a number as the sheer misogynistic hate groups and that people overall would find them as objectionable and unacceptable as they are. 

I think what a lot of men might not realise, since they aren't exposed to this, is that these views are not as small a minority as they might think. In RL, though I have never been raped, I have been sexually assaulted and harassed to the quite normal level for an adult woman of my age. Groped on public transport and in nightclubs, had filth I won't repeat screamed at me in streets or whispered in my ear. And all the death and rape threats online, of course. In SL alone, despite my limits being very clear when I was rp-ing, I have had men attempt to RP cutting off my clitoris, slitting my throat and more besides, and boy you'd love to hear what they said when I said I didn't permit that. Yes, I know it wasn't really happening. Yes, I ARed, derendered and logged out. But please don't anyone tell me I'm not allowed to be disturbed or appalled by it. And I somehow get the sense that some people expect me to be more accepting of it than they would a Jewish player encountering someone who wanted to RP gassing them, or a black player encountering someone who wanted to RP lynching them.


I don't have an objection to designated kinky RP groups, but when I'm reminded of these misogynistic hate groups, I'm also reminded that its not some barely present underground cabal of five people. It's a minority of men, of course, but it's more than you think, in both RL and SL. And I know this because in both worlds, they go out of their way to show me how disgusting they are, how much they hate me and what they would do to me if only they could get away with it. 
 

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Isn't "rape" one of the most common sexual fantasies out there? I'm certainly not suprised, that its such a common theme to be found in adult sims of any kind. Whatever floats your boat, I guess... I don't get why someone needs to obsess over roleplay and kink, that plays out between consenting adults, does not translate into real life and can be avoided, if you don't want to participate in it. Thats like people getting offended by the mere existance of furries... and its hilarious how some here act as if there were no women joining roleplays like that.

Ones real life experiance is no ground to dictate to the rest of the world what they can play or not.

Ones feelings are not the ruler for other peoples private activites.

Ones feelings and experiances are their own business.

People have the freedom to be disturbed, disgusted and such, but the moment they put themselves higher than their fellow residents and require that their feelings are what dictates the rules for others, the line is crossed. Can't understand why? Just turn it around and think about the things you enjoy. There is certainly a group of people out there, who feels strongly against those things as well. Just think about religious people in the real world, trying to force their believes and customs on others.

Its also easy to imagine that making it against the ToS to roleplay rape is easy and simple, but its not. You may think, you are just banning those nasty sex clubs and dark alley hangouts, but wording might be slippery and a moment later, you have touched on anything that even slightly looks like "forced" interaction (so bye BDSM), as well as any roleplay setting, where rape might happen as a story consequence, but without being its main focus or even goal.

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2 hours ago, Garvin Twine said:

In general, I really do not like to ban stuff from SL it is a fantasy world to live out fantasies, but at some points, aren't there just natural red lines?

Wait... You are the owner of an SL business called "Virtual Disgrace" who used to sell RLV scripted "capture, kidnap and rape" equipment?

You are the person who added a "Capture" button for CARP activities to the menus of 4.x, 6.x, 7.x and No.9 Opencollars.

So you'd like certain "redlines activities" banned, just not the ones YOU personally make money off?

LMAO...



 

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5 minutes ago, Klytyna said:

Wait... You are the owner of an SL business called "Virtual Disgrace" who used to sell RLV scripted "capture, kidnap and rape" equipment?

You are the person who added a "Capture" button for CARP activities to the menus of 4.x, 6.x, 7.x and No.9 Opencollars.

So you'd like certain "redlines activities" banned, just not the ones YOU personally make money off?

LMAO...



 

First of all, the scripts are free so I do not make money of them.

Second, this is no "rape" equipment, what ever that might be.

Obviously you did not read my whole post :). Then you might see the distinct difference in play and no play I try to point out here.

 

Edited by Garvin Twine

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