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27 minutes ago, Klytyna said:

Wait... You are the owner of an SL business called "Virtual Disgrace" who used to sell RLV scripted "capture, kidnap and rape" equipment?

You are the person who added a "Capture" button for CARP activities to the menus of 4.x, 6.x, 7.x and No.9 Opencollars.

So you'd like certain "redlines activities" banned, just not the ones YOU personally make money off?

LMAO...



 

If I understand correctly, @Garvin Twine makes a distinction between groups dedicated to consensually roleplaying forced sex, and groups dedicated to expressing pure misogyny that even go out of their way to state that they are not roleplaying. I make the same distinction.

And I sense that groups called "Jews Deserve No Rights" or "Black People Deserve Misery", stating how Jews are all the property of non-Jews, or black people are worth only what white people say they are, would cause more overall offence and greater calls to action...
 

Edited by Amina Sopwith

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14 minutes ago, Garvin Twine said:

First of all, the scripts are free so I do not make money of them.

Second, this is no "rape" equipment, what ever that might be.

Obviously you did not read my whole post :).


 

And you apparently didn't read my post at all, I didn't say "virtual disgrace, makers of peanut no 9" I said...

"Who used to sell capture kidnap and rape" equipment", as in back in the pre oc 4.0 days when you had that pokey little skybox store selling ugly prim-build CARP gear.

In addition, before stating that you "make no money" off VD, perhaps you should go and remove all the not-free VD products from your store on the MP, it would make the "make no money" claim more believable.

You make money of activities some people would like banned from SL for being "sick immoral deviancy", and yet you apparently support the removal of "sick immoral deviancy", just not YOURS...

In this regard you are JUST like the "digital artist" over at Renderotica, who was happy to see "BDSM" banned from the galleries, because he had two teen daughters he didn't want raped by fetish art fans, but who was quite happy depicting "morally ok hetro vanilla 3-some action with two hot babes who LOOK a little bit 'just 15 barely illegal' but who obviously are not because that would make him a hypocrite", because that's "Normal" and NO threat to his two teen daughters...

So, you make money of one persons banlist activity while complaining that your banlist activities haven't been banned.



 

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Its Christmas... Also why are we still attacking people who are on topic with a thread? I don't care what ever excuses, insults etc are made against me on this. Had my way all this evil rp would be gone. But I am doing what I can. By making suggestion that LL atleast investigates this matter for themselves. 

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14 minutes ago, Klytyna said:

And you apparently didn't read my post at all, I didn't say "virtual disgrace, makers of peanut no 9" I said...

"Who used to sell capture kidnap and rape" equipment", as in back in the pre oc 4.0 days when you had that pokey little skybox store selling ugly prim-build CARP gear.

Who ever it was it was not me, I was not in SL at all that time, but took a break. Interesting what you all know what I did :).

16 minutes ago, Klytyna said:

So, you make money of one persons banlist activity while complaining that your banlist activities haven't been banned.
 

You still did not read my post it seems, I never asked for anything to be banned but for certain phrases and group that go beyond any role play to be removed nor do I make money of a ban list, what nonsense is that?

But normal discussions do not seem to be possible here as there will be always someone who has to make things personal where I just wanted to add a slightly wider point of view be seen here, too.

So... bye, no point in discussing here when it all goes to personal attacks.

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3 minutes ago, Amina Sopwith said:

makes a distinction between groups dedicated to consensually roleplaying forced sex, and groups dedicated to expressing pure misogyny that even go out of their way to state that they are not roleplaying. I make the same distinction

I don't...

See, there are plenty of groups, and activities, that *I* personally, would be OVERJOYED to see banned...

There really are, and many of them are misogynistic in the extreme.

BUT, I'm old enough, and cynical enough to KNOW what would happen if I tried to GET them banned with some campaign. The term is "Blowback".

Let's take a REAL example, from the United Rebel Colonies of Murica.

Once upon a time, in Murica, some CLUELESS FUGGING SELF RIGHTIOUS MORONS, decided that the laws proscribing the making and distribution of kiddie porn in Murica were simply not good enough, and they proposed a NEW law.

Bill 2257.

Any politician who DARED to speak out against 2257's many and obvious flaws was demonised for "supporting kiddie porn".

So what did the bill essentially demand?

1. All performers real names and adresses to be kept on file with proof of age for inspection by Federal Investigators.

2. The Site owners real name and contact details displayed on the site

3. All "live video" footage to be permanently archived on hard disk for possible review by Federal investigators.

Thats the meat of it.

The legal commercial porn companies in Murica, already did all these things anyway, because it's good business.

The Illegal kiddie porn makers outside Murica, didn't care because Murican laws couldn't touch them.

So who caught the "Blowback" off 2257?

Initially, low skills single mothers working from home as self employed webcam strippers, because they had no idea how to do the cam footage archiving for the most part, and couldnt afford the needed storage, and because they had to put THEIR real name and adress on their webcam site, making them EASY targets for stalkers, rapists and serial killers.

Every Murican politician who voted for 2257 is by definition, guilty of conspiracy to commit 2nd degree murder.

That was just the START...

Murican Law is largely based off courtroom precedent.

That is, the ACTUAL law is whatever you can convince a judge to say it is.

The ink was barely dry on 2257, before the Moron Minority Test Case Litigation spam commenced. Trying to get 2257 extended by 'precedent' to cover digital artworks (is that mid twenties digital woman mesh over 18? Does she have ID?), classical art (that chick in the famous painting, who has been dead for 350 years, was she over 18 when she took her blouse off for a famous dead painter?).

You name it, the Funless-Mental Crusaders tried getting 2257 to cover it and ban it.

About the only people who NEVER suffered under 2257, were the kiddie porn makers and distributors the bill was claimed to be targeted at.

...

Much as I'd love to see a whole bunch of misogyny banned from the web, never mind SL, I'm not foolish enough to ask some legislative body to do it.

There is an old old saying...

"The Cure is WORSE than the Disease"

I'd rather suffer the existence of a misogynistic SL group than actively enlist the assistance of Arrogant Fascists, who can be relied upon to target minorities like my self NEXT if given any power or excuse...



 

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1 hour ago, Garvin Twine said:

First of all, the scripts are free so I do not make money of them

Ah that Otto, Derp! I didn't twig. Thanks Kly for noting it.

Well thanks from me Garvin for all the work you have done to improve collars, bdsm and CARP/roleplay-rape in SL  :) Not essential of course for a fertile mind, but still a useful tool. 

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24 minutes ago, Klytyna said:

I don't...

See, there are plenty of groups, and activities, that *I* personally, would be OVERJOYED to see banned...

There really are, and many of them are misogynistic in the extreme.

BUT, I'm old enough, and cynical enough to KNOW what would happen if I tried to GET them banned with some campaign. The term is "Blowback".

Let's take a REAL example, from the United Rebel Colonies of Murica.

Once upon a time, in Murica, some CLUELESS FUGGING SELF RIGHTIOUS MORONS, decided that the laws proscribing the making and distribution of kiddie porn in Murica were simply not good enough, and they proposed a NEW law.

Bill 2257.

Any politician who DARED to speak out against 2257's many and obvious flaws was demonised for "supporting kiddie porn".

So what did the bill essentially demand?

1. All performers real names and adresses to be kept on file with proof of age for inspection by Federal Investigators.

2. The Site owners real name and contact details displayed on the site

3. All "live video" footage to be permanently archived on hard disk for possible review by Federal investigators.

Thats the meat of it.

The legal commercial porn companies in Murica, already did all these things anyway, because it's good business.

The Illegal kiddie porn makers outside Murica, didn't care because Murican laws couldn't touch them.

So who caught the "Blowback" off 2257?

Initially, low skills single mothers working from home as self employed webcam strippers, because they had no idea how to do the cam footage archiving for the most part, and couldnt afford the needed storage, and because they had to put THEIR real name and adress on their webcam site, making them EASY targets for stalkers, rapists and serial killers.

Every Murican politician who voted for 2257 is by definition, guilty of conspiracy to commit 2nd degree murder.

That was just the START...

Murican Law is largely based off courtroom precedent.

That is, the ACTUAL law is whatever you can convince a judge to say it is.

The ink was barely dry on 2257, before the Moron Minority Test Case Litigation spam commenced. Trying to get 2257 extended by 'precedent' to cover digital artworks (is that mid twenties digital woman mesh over 18? Does she have ID?), classical art (that chick in the famous painting, who has been dead for 350 years, was she over 18 when she took her blouse off for a famous dead painter?).

You name it, the Funless-Mental Crusaders tried getting 2257 to cover it and ban it.

About the only people who NEVER suffered under 2257, were the kiddie porn makers and distributors the bill was claimed to be targeted at.

...

Much as I'd love to see a whole bunch of misogyny banned from the web, never mind SL, I'm not foolish enough to ask some legislative body to do it.

There is an old old saying...

"The Cure is WORSE than the Disease"

I'd rather suffer the existence of a misogynistic SL group than actively enlist the assistance of Arrogant Fascists, who can be relied upon to target minorities like my self NEXT if given any power or excuse...



 

I don't see how this means that a private company can't say that hate speech contravenes its TOS, and will not be given a platform within its product. 

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I find this kind of RP truly disgusting, but lets pause for a second and really think about it, i feel and understand that it is offensive (but the world is offensive), and you can't fix any of it.I have a long list of things i find disgusting, and at the top is Christianity , and feel that any kind of RP or sim dedicated to a religion that has done horific things (including rape and violence) to indigenous people and children, around the world in the name of an imaginary person in the sky truly f'n gross.... so lets start BANNING!! i got all my demons in a row, lets go save some snowflakes! Maybe we can start a war against the Furries, i ain't got nothing against em' but with the right propaganda.....RP is RP just let it die..... if i am gonna be offended it will be against something real , not fairies playing dom and latex with unicorns in never never land.... 

Edited by Bausha

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8 hours ago, Chaser Zaks said:

That I could understand and do find as a reasonable complaint. Perhaps SL could use a word blacklisting system for search? I could find it useful for many other uses other than just blocking graphic descriptions as well, such as those who want to not see furry hangouts, afk sex places, or places with "no furries/animal avatars" in the description, etc.

It does. Use : "Sex Bed NOT rape" 

NOT removes any results containing the the word after it

Edit : Oh you mean in world?. I thought you meant on the market which already does have a system like that. 

Edited by chibiusa Ling

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1 minute ago, Amina Sopwith said:

I don't see how this means that a private company can't say that hate speech contravenes its TOS, and will not be given a platform within its product.

It doesn't.

It does point out the inadvisability of launching a campaign to get the company to outlaw what YOU don't like, because while YOU can campaign to have misogynistic hate groups banned for "hating women", the Religious Zealots can campaign to have "Friendly Atheist Chat" banned for "hating Our Lardy Flavour Cheesus Toast".

It means Machotard Testosterobigot (rez date 2006) can have Lesbian social groups banned for "hating alpha males"...

It means that "The Association Of Decent People Against Queer Marriage" can demand that SL's LGBT groups are removed for "hating normal relationships".

Somebody's many times great grandfather was savaged by a Huron squaw in 1756? They are "triggered" by the presence of "Native Americans" in SL and demand the banning of a Native only "Hate" group who run a living history RP sim...

"But but... They have a dispenser prim that gives out tomahawks and scalping knives! They talk about killing double tongued palefaces and using their hair to decorate lodgepoles! They have a statue of Tecumsah! Obviously a bannable hate group, ban them Daddy Linden Ban them!"

And so on.

That's what self appointed moral crusaders ALWAYS forget, that EVERYBODY is on somebody's hate list, and everybody HAS a hate list. If it's cool to officially enforce ONE Hate list, then it's ok to enforce them ALL, and soon there's nobody left to pick on, because EVERYONE & EVERYTHING is banned.

LL generally follow a "Let Well Alone" policy, they investigate Ar's, but that doesn't mean they WILL act, if they don't think the AR merits action.

You need to think very carefully before handing fascists a stick to beat you with. And saying it's obviously a "good thing" to allow fascists to instigate bans against the FIRST item on THEIR Hate List, is exactly such a stick.
 

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Just now, Klytyna said:

It doesn't.

It does point out the inadvisability of launching a campaign to get the company to outlaw what YOU don't like, because while YOU can campaign to have misogynistic hate groups banned for "hating women", the Religious Zealots can campaign to have "Friendly Atheist Chat" banned for "hating Our Lardy Flavour Cheesus Toast".

It means Machotard Testosterobigot (rez date 2006) can have Lesbian social groups banned for "hating alpha males"...

It means that "The Association Of Decent People Against Queer Marriage" can demand that SL's LGBT groups are removed for "hating normal relationships".

Somebody's many times great grandfather was savaged by a Huron squaw in 1756? They are "triggered" by the presence of "Native Americans" in SL and demand the banning of a Native only "Hate" group who run a living history RP sim...

"But but... They have a dispenser prim that gives out tomahawks and scalping knives! They talk about killing double tongued palefaces and using their hair to decorate lodgepoles! They have a statue of Tecumsah! Obviously a bannable hate group, ban them Daddy Linden Ban them!"

And so on.

That's what self appointed moral crusaders ALWAYS forget, that EVERYBODY is on somebody's hate list, and everybody HAS a hate list. If it's cool to officially enforce ONE Hate list, then it's ok to enforce them ALL, and soon there's nobody left to pick on, because EVERYONE & EVERYTHING is banned.

LL generally follow a "Let Well Alone" policy, they investigate Ar's, but that doesn't mean they WILL act, if they don't think the AR merits action.

You need to think very carefully before handing fascists a stick to beat you with. And saying it's obviously a "good thing" to allow fascists to instigate bans against the FIRST item on THEIR Hate List, is exactly such a stick.
 

It's a question of protected characteristics. To be fair, this too throws up a lot of debate over what should and shouldn't fall within the definition. However, most people do understand that there is a distinction to be drawn somewhere between violent hate speech against women/gay people/black people/Jewish people, and laughing at someone's religious beliefs. Just as I also think most people could understand that there is a distinction to be drawn between a historic RP sim and a completely racist "what make de red man red" portrayal of Native American people. And, I thought, between consensual role-play groups and groups dedicated to absolute hate speech. Especially within the confines of a private company's own product. Not many people would find a problematic free speech discussion to be had in, for example, a toy firm refusing to manufacture racist dolls.

 

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3 minutes ago, Amina Sopwith said:

Not many people would find a problematic free speech discussion to be had in, for example, a toy firm refusing to manufacture racist dolls.

You should look at the discussions in the Netherlands around Zwarte Piet.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Amina Sopwith said:

Not many people would find a problematic free speech discussion to be had in, for example, a toy firm refusing to manufacture racist dolls

Depends on exactly who's definition of "racist" you are using...

For example, there are many people who think it's OK to be racist, as long as the targets have "coloniser skin tones", and that racist hate speech against "white people" doesn't count as Hate speech because "they deserve it for not exhibiting enough White Guilt..."

Thats a thread thats happened right here on this very forum... And the Racist in question was outraged to be called a racist by a "coloniser skintoned" person. This was after they demanded that steps should be taken to stop "colonisers" making coloniser avatars" because there were "too many in SL", including preventing skin makers from making "coloniser skins".

If your hypothetical toy firm refused to make "white dolls", that would certainly be something many would have a problem with.

....

All free speech is problematic, because the problem with free speech is... Everyone is free to do it. Not just the people who agree with you and hate what you hate.

Witness one of THIS threads more blatant fascists repeatedly claiming that anyone who disagrees with them shouldn't reply to the thread, that their opinions were not asked for, and that disagreeing with them makes those people "trolls" who engage in "personal attacks against those people on topic", and thus that not agreeing with their fascist views is "off topic".
 

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1 minute ago, Callum Meriman said:

You should look at the discussions in the Netherlands around Zwarte Piet.

 

 

I have. I've walked out of productions in mainland Europe because they were performing in blackface. It's not OK. Laughing at what someone believes religiously or politically is fine. Propagating hate against who they are is not.

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Just now, Amina Sopwith said:

I have. I've walked out of productions in mainland Europe because they were performing in blackface. It's not OK. Laughing at what someone believes religiously or politically is fine. Propagating hate against who they are is not.

And yet 88% of the Dutch think Zwarte Piet is fine and don't want him changed. So I think it's a good case against your comment....

21 minutes ago, Amina Sopwith said:

Not many people would find a problematic free speech discussion to be had in, for example, a toy firm refusing to manufacture racist dolls.

 

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2 minutes ago, Klytyna said:

Depends on exactly who's definition of "racist" you are using...

For example, there are many people who think it's OK to be racist, as long as the targets have "coloniser skin tones", and that racist hate speech against "white people" doesn't count as Hate speech because "they deserve it for not exhibiting enough White Guilt..."

Thats a thread thats happened right here on this very forum... And the Racist in question was outraged to be called a racist by a "coloniser skintoned" person. This was after they demanded that steps should be taken to stop "colonisers" making coloniser avatars" because there were "too many in SL", including preventing skin makers from making "coloniser skins".

If your hypothetical toy firm refused to make "white dolls", that would certainly be something many would have a problem with.

....

All free speech is problematic, because the problem with free speech is... Everyone is free to do it. Not just the people who agree with you and hate what you hate.

Witness one of THIS threads more blatant fascists repeatedly claiming that anyone who disagrees with them shouldn't reply to the thread, that their opinions were not asked for, and that disagreeing with them makes those people "trolls" who engage in "personal attacks against those people on topic", and thus that not agreeing with their fascist views is "off topic".
 

Well actually, in my country at least, there is a law against inciting violence or racial hatred and making threatening and malicious communications. While you might argue that this is a curtailment of free speech, most people don't have a problem with it. Just as they don't have a problem with their right to liberty being curtailed by the laws of trespass.

I am happy to accept that the distinctions can be hard to define and that there will be some discussion and disagreement about where they should stand. I absolutely can't ever agree that there should be no distinction at all. 

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10 minutes ago, Callum Meriman said:

And yet 88% of the Dutch think Zwarte Piet is fine and don't want him changed. So I think it's a good case against your comment....

 

Leaving aside the very specific and location-centred context of that example (and the fact that it's still wrong), there would still be little to object to in a private company deciding that it does not wish to manufacture that toy.

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1 minute ago, Amina Sopwith said:

there would still be little to object to in a private company deciding that it does not wish to manufacture that toy. 

Maybe, maybe not. However it's a curly subject that is super toxic on these forums. Some people can be weird about this and fly off the handle with mouths frothing and ears smoking. Bans have been thrown at people that hit the inworld avatar in the past.

To step back into safe space, your assertion there does make me think of the hate some private companies get for not celebrating Christmas. Although it's not a protected characteristic the private company (or school) sees no harm in scrapping the Christmas tree or not singing carols, yet there are huge swathes of people who turn redder then coke-santa's clothes at this insult.

That's part of what makes all of this so difficult. What one group think is fine is going to get right up the noses of another group. And when the pitchforks come out, well it all goes downhill.

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Just now, Callum Meriman said:

Maybe, maybe not. However it's a curly subject that is super toxic on these forums. Some people can be weird about this and fly off the handle with mouths frothing and ears smoking. Bans have been thrown at people that hit the inworld avatar in the past.

To step back into safe space, your assertion there does make me think of the hate some private companies get for not celebrating Christmas. Although it's not a protected characteristic the private company (or school) sees no harm in scrapping the Christmas tree or not singing carols, yet there are huge swathes of people who turn redder then coke-santa's clothes at this insult.

That's part of what makes all of this so difficult. What one group think is fine is going to get right up the noses of another group. And when the pitchforks come out, well it all goes downhill.

As long as they're not going into threatening or hate speech, I have no problem with people frothing. 


Like I said, the distinctions are not always easy to draw. Sometimes they can be debated forever. This is where, in most countries I think, we leave it up to a judge or jury to decide, and not everyone's going to be happy. I'm not saying it's always clear cut. But as I mentioned to another poster, most people agree that there should be protected characteristics, even if they don't necessarily agree on what they are. 

And I do draw a very strong distinction between a group dedicated to consensually roleplaying forced sex, and one dedicated simply to expressing hate speech, which may even arguably veer into violent hate speech, against a group of people for simply being female, gay, black, whatever. Obviously LL doesn't care because those groups have been around for years, they've been reported, nothing's been done. I guess that by playing in SL I have to accept that. But I do think that LL, as a private company, has the absolute perfect right to say "not on this turf" and delete them when they are found. I don't have a problem with the "free speech" element of it either. Free speech does not mean that you have a perfect right to an uncontested  platform anywhere you like. Newspaper editors are under no obligation to publish every letter they receive and LL may not give a toss about this hate, but it's not obliged to host it.

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27 minutes ago, Amina Sopwith said:

 (and the fact that it's still wrong)

absurd, the ones that made the protest are totally out of context, didn't and don't understand the origin of zwarte piet, they only use it to spend their empty life on cost of dutch society and making a childrens event to hell for everybody.
Those idiots even promoted action against the official celebrations, publicly calling to make terroristic attacks that kids would be under blood, flesh and bone remains after the event.!

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14 minutes ago, Amina Sopwith said:

This is where, in most countries I think, we leave it up to a judge or jury to decide, and not everyone's going to be happy.

Governance is our judge, jury and executioner. All we can do is report specific cases of this when we see it, and accept that the Lab, and not us, have the final word.

14 minutes ago, Amina Sopwith said:

Obviously LL doesn't care because those groups have been around for years, they've been reported, nothing's been done.

I'd say LL do care, they have just placed the bar in a different place to one's own expectations, or more likely the ARs they are getting are low quality, and don't give the Governance Linden much to work on.

Governance is overworked at the best of times, and much of what we report does seem to be ignored. But we don't know the full story, they are over worked, and they are human --- and on top of that we don't know if our poorly written complaint about some incel group is lost in all the he-said-she-said drama that is clogging the queue or just deemed unworthy.

 

Edited by Callum Meriman

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Who decides what is acceptable and what is not? I personally think abortion is murder, should simulated abortion be banned based on my opinion that it is wrong? 

Edited by Talligurl
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12 hours ago, chibiusa Ling said:

This is what I never understand about these types of conversations when you them in context with the rest of the real world outside of the virtual spectrum...

In the UK at the minute we have a growing issue with ***** trafficking gangs who are sexually enslaving children on a frequently regular basis with authorities appearing to do very little to nothing about it at the best of times with the OCCASIONAL prosecution when they feel like they need to be seen to be doing something in the eyes of the public. Just across the water in Europe the problem is supposedly even worse with children, women and men being kidnapped, raped, murdered, enslaved, assaulted, sold, re sold and apparently passed around like a sexual peace pipe. In Italy it is no longer safe for women to walk out alone for fear of rapes, muggings, murders etc etc with some areas being off limits entirely. It wasn't all but a few months back that one woman turned up inside of a suitcase all chopped to bits. The same is happening in France, Germany, Spain, Portugal and Austria to name but a few. Further south in large portions of Africa you have lesbian women being "correctively raped", trans women being murdered, other women STILL being hunted down as witches and burned to death inside of several car tyres, domestic violence, mutilation etc etc. Go a bit further east and you have a large collection of countries where the subjugation of women is a standard every day practice where enslavement, rape, honour killings and crap knows what else are the accepted standard. With domestic violence being a laughed at common occurrence and women rights are literally 0 to -42.  Etc etc and so on and so forth. I'm not sure whats happening across the pond in America but im sure if you look hard enough you could easily find some kind of issue that could do with being taken care off.

 

And yet.....

 

You are on this forum complaining about the act performed by two consenting adults in an adult virtual role-play environment. I get why you don't like it, I really really do. Rape is a horrific thing that I would never wish upon anyone. But, there is a huge huge huge difference between two consenting adults roleplaying out a scenario in a safe environment where they can cancel out at any point and are never in any actual physical danger, for the purposes of nothing other than kink. Than actual rape in which there is no close button, there is no mute option, there is no block, ban, and you cant report until after the incident has taken place and thats if your lucky enough to survive it in the first place. Whilst I don't go anywhere near rape sims in SL and think that they are filled with...as Klytyna put it....."knuckle dragging"....bottom feeders. We can't suddenly start taking action against people for what are basically thought crimes because once you go down that road......well thats when the s*** really does hit the fan. Most of those engaging in that role-play may have a fantasy but I doubt very much they would enjoy ACTUAL rape. Its a fantasy. If you don't like it...don't go there....I don't....I stay well away from those types of places. Do the same.

If you feel that strongly about these subjects then my suggestion would be to get off your ass and log out of Second Life and go out into the world and tackle the REAL issues that need addressing. Go campaign for better womens rights in Africa, whilst your there throw in some support for the much hated LGBT crowd. Go to Russia and campaign so that lesbians are not correctively raped and homosexual men are not lured out to remote locations to be abused, beaten and forced to sodomise themselves with broken bottles. Go to the middle and east and campaign for much needed basic womens rights.

When you put the events inside of SL in comparison with the events of the real world.....SL is a playground with everyone running around poking each other with blades of grass and tying each other up for fun on the jungle gym.

Rant over! xDD

It's a shame one cannot accurately comment on the true state of the world without being accused of being racist, nationalistic, or xenophobic.

🤐

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18 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

It's a shame one cannot accurately comment on the true state of the world without being accused of being racist, nationalistic, or xenophobic.

🤐

Hence why, believe it or not, my comment is very carefully worded so as to not specifically point at a particular group or groups of people. I'm not the type of person that really has issues with anyone so long as that person is not an ass. But I was fully expecting those type of comments to be misconstrued from what I had written 

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6 minutes ago, chibiusa Ling said:

Hence why, believe it or not, my comment is very carefully worded so as to not specifically point at a particular group or groups of people. I'm not the type of person that really has issues with anyone so long as that person is not an ass. But I was fully expecting those type of comments to be misconstrued from what I had written 

Oh yes, I'm quite aware of that, and I'm also quite aware of exactly who you are referring to, but it's the elephant in the room no one is allowed name, unless they want to be accused of the things I already mentioned.

Merry Christmas Chibiusa, you are one of the few people in here I actually miss in my self imposed exile.

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