Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Ok, for those of you here into bdsm I have a question. what are your feelings about 'training' a sub/slave? What I meant is I was in a group where a master said they needed to 'train' their slave not to use a certain word, so they were looking for a script for use with rlv to 'train' them to stop saying that word so much. Now, of course, I don't know if the slave wanted them to or consented to such 'training' or not but it just sort of crossed me as a little strange almost if as that master was being domineering and less as a dominant/master

to me I would think they would just need to ask/tell them to stop using the word. if they are a real sub/slave and have submitted they would do so without the need of any rlv enforced 'training'. if not they are not really submitting or consenting and maybe they need to have a talk about it and why. at which point any forced 'training' could be a form of manipulation or abuse.

now, of course, the sub/slave would have to add it to their collar on their own for it to be able to be used on them(which could be taken as consent), but some sub'slaves can be manipulated into doing things that they might not really consent or want to be done because they think they have to obey everything without any choice at all or be considered a bad/failed sub/slave.

bdsm is about consent and communication and trust, even if being a slave. it just seems that many dominants or 'masters' don't think it is. it feels as if many dominants have become obsessed over the power of rlv and how they use it without any real consideration of what their sub/slave wants or has consented to. that they think just because someone has put a collar on and added them as owner they have the right to do whatever they want at that point without caring if the sub/slave is comfortable with it or not. that wearing a collar and having rlv on is automatic consent to be treated however the other person wants.

so what are your feelings about this? am I maybe just letting my own past experiences colour my perception of what was said or being done?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If it is what they enjoy, good for them.

I don't even use RLa because it robs Clover of an opportunity to obey.  But that's us.  Others love the loss of choice.  YKINMKBYKIOK

 

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't do such training as in the OP. However,  I have a set of simple rules I expect my subs to follow:

Quote

#1: As first and most important rule: Your Real Life™ always has absolute top priority, no matter what is happening in Second Life™. If you have to attend your RL™ (either by going "AFK" or by logging out entirely), you don't need to ask for permission. Just inform me, that's enough. If you go "Afk" for longer than a few minutes, better switch your viewer to  "busy", that's easier to recognize.

#2: As your *Owner*, I am not your equal, but your superior in all things. Because of that, I expect respect and obedience from you - in short: a behavior that makes me proud of you. I also expect you to be respectful and polite towards strangers, they could be Dom/mes, too. Also: treat other subs (and especially the others under my rule) the same way as you want to be treated by them yourself. Any and all impoliteness and rudeness will be punished by me. And I'll use the "Three Strikes Rule": A third violation of the same kind, and you're out. I don't tolerate anyone on my leash who intentionally ignores my rules.

#3: Communicate with me. Absolutely. I need to know your limits, your likes, and dislikes, even your day form if that's going to affect your time inworld. If one of my orders reaches or even trespasses your limits, I need to know that, before I force you to something you're not ready for. You're spending your spare time here in SL, it should be fun despite all restrictions. I don't know all your limits, likes and dislikes inside out, and I'm not a psychic yet - so communicate with me.

#4: Speaking of communication: You have a brain, use it. I expect you to put an effort into NOT using short message style. There are a few abbreviations I do accept (for example SL, RL, AFK) - but do strive towards avoiding abbreviations in general. I rather wait a minute for a written-out reply than having to decipher a quick one. I also expect you to think along my lines, to help me in dialog to become a better Domme to you. Mistakes can happen: Nobody of us is perfect. But I expect you to constantly work on learning from them, just like me.

#5: You're not prisoners on my land. If you want to visit friends or attend a job inworld, tell me. if necessary, I'll lift restrictions that hinder you to go visit or work, so that you're not too isolated or too focused on me. You're with me on your own free will, you don't need to revert to alts in order to do your job or meet your friends. Also: When I'm not online, you're free to travel through SL anyway (except if you have a temporal penalty - in this case, I expect you to stay there) - but always and everywhere think of my Rule #2.

#6: Even though I give you certain freedoms with Rule #5, I do expect that you at least recognize my presence. That's why you will greet me as soon as you see that I'm online. You don't have to let everything go and hurry home - just greet me in IM, and we'll proceed from there.

#7: If you have to take off your collar or outfit (for example for updates) or want to do so (for example because you're done wearing a bondage outfit), then absolutely do tell me beforehand. I will unlock it - or allow you to relog with RLV disabled (or the official SL viewer) so that you can update it or take it off for good.
Even though your usage of RLV(a) is voluntary: I don't want to learn belatedly that you don't use it (anymore). Plus, I learn it through my offline messages anyways.

#8: If you want to leave me for any reason, do tell me beforehand. I don't want to learn by chance (for example by reading your profile) that you suddenly serve someone else.

5

Until now, these rules have been working just fine - for me, and my subs.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

it just sort of crossed me as a little strange almost if as that master was being domineering and less as a dominant/master

"Masta in RL an natraly dumbinant!"

There's loads of them in SL. I've seen this come up in so many different ways in SL over the years.

4 hours ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

now, of course, the sub/slave would have to add it to their collar on their own for it to be able to be used on them

Years back in the Opencollar R&D chat...

A "Masta" who demanded that OC make updating a collar "Mastas only", because he was concerned that his "slaves" (never subs, always slaves, because they don't know the bloody difference and don't care...) might update their collars to not have locks, and this escape! He took great offence at being told that a) he might own the "slave" but she owns the collar object in her inv, and just allows him access to it, and b) that most "Mastas" have trouble finding their own ass in the dark with both hands, let alone something *complicated* like using a collar without shouting *nadu in local chat or using a ZERO IQ friendly  "Owna's Hud".

4 hours ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

bdsm is about consent and communication and trust, even if being a slave. it just seems that many dominants or 'masters' don't think it is

Another "Masta" who ran some "BDSM Community" munch style chats...

This "Masta in RL with years of experience, " boldly announced to the attendees that once a "slave" has given consent to play in his dungeon, she has given up ALL rights and control over what happens until such time as the "Masta" kicks her out of the dungeon before zipping up his pants. He took great offence at being told that, traditionally,  "Subs drive the scene" with their limits, and that if this statement of his was how he conducted his RL BDSM activities he was bloody lucky not to have faced charges for sexual assault, rape, actual bodily harm, kidnapping and illegal imprisonment...

4 hours ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

it feels as if many dominants have become obsessed over the power of rlv and how they use it without any real consideration of what their sub/slave wants or has consented to

Actually no, not "many dominants", but "many dumbinants" and empirical observation suggests that 90% of those are "Mastas".

4 hours ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

so what are your feelings about this?

I feel you have a tendency to confuse "Dominant" with "Master", and "Sub" with "Slave", probably as a result of hanging out in groups filled with excessive numbers of "Natraly Dumbinant Mastas", listening to their crap all the time is bound to have an effect, you have been "trained" to confuse the terms...

...

I've seen this whole thing so many times. The "Mastas" tend towards paranoia, they don't want the "slave" logging in while THEY are offline, they don't want the "slave" staying logged in after THEY log out, they don't want the "slave" IM'ing anyone but THEM, they don't want the "slave" being able to travel at all except when dragged on a leash.

...

These "50 Shades of Vanilla" Masta-Wannabe BDSM-Fails are all about fear...  The fear that sooner or later the poor little noob chicks they caught at the OC Temple, will realise "Masta" is a worthless little dog's pizzle, and use the /runaway command, and "Masta" will have to go hunting the noob-pits for another "RLV Ho who's not allowed to say NO".
 

  • Like 5
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Rhonda Huntress said:

If it is what they enjoy, good for them.

I don't even use RLa because it robs Clover of an opportunity to obey.  But that's us.  Others love the loss of choice.  YKINMKBYKIOK

 

that much I agree with, if its what they want and enjoy then yes its fine. but sometimes you have to wonder because of how some of the people here act at times. I guess maybe it just triggered a response in me because of my past with one of my owners and how they treated me. I guess I have had more dumbinants or Masta's as one of the other posters called them than actual dominants or Owners.

 

2 hours ago, ThorinII said:

I don't do such training as in the OP. However,  I have a set of simple rules I expect my subs to follow:

Until now, these rules have been working just fine - for me, and my subs.

which that is great, you sound like someone that is not like the person I was talking about. I may have been reading to deep into things but I tend to do that because I have some trust issues now because of past treatments by owners. from what you listed in your rules I do not see anything that sounded or felt objectionary to me. it didn't cause any adverse reactions or feelings like when I seen what the one said in the group I was in.

 

26 minutes ago, Klytyna said:

"Masta in RL an natraly dumbinant!"

There's loads of them in SL. I've seen this come up in so many different ways in SL over the years.

Years back in the Opencollar R&D chat...

A "Masta" who demanded that OC make updating a collar "Mastas only", because he was concerned that his "slaves" (never subs, always slaves, because they don't know the bloody difference and don't care...) might update their collars to not have locks, and this escape! He took great offence at being told that a) he might own the "slave" but she owns the collar object in her inv, and just allows him access to it, and b) that most "Mastas" have trouble finding their own ass in the dark with both hands, let alone something *complicated* like using a collar without shouting *nadu in local chat or using a ZERO IQ friendly  "Owna's Hud".

Another "Masta" who ran some "BDSM Community" munch style chats...

This "Masta in RL with years of experience, " boldly announced to the attendees that once a "slave" has given consent to play in his dungeon, she has given up ALL rights and control over what happens until such time as the "Masta" kicks her out of the dungeon before zipping up his pants. He took great offence at being told that, traditionally,  "Subs drive the scene" with their limits, and that if this statement of his was how he conducted his RL BDSM activities he was bloody lucky not to have faced charges for sexual assault, rape, actual bodily harm, kidnapping and illegal imprisonment...

Actually no, not "many dominants", but "many dumbinants" and empirical observation suggests that 90% of those are "Mastas".

I feel you have a tendency to confuse "Dominant" with "Master", and "Sub" with "Slave", probably as a result of hanging out in groups filled with excessive numbers of "Natraly Dumbinant Mastas", listening to their crap all the time is bound to have an effect, you have been "trained" to confuse the terms...

...

I've seen this whole thing so many times. The "Mastas" tend towards paranoia, they don't want the "slave" logging in while THEY are offline, they don't want the "slave" staying logged in after THEY log out, they don't want the "slave" IM'ing anyone but THEM, they don't want the "slave" being able to travel at all except when dragged on a leash.

...

These "50 Shades of Vanilla" Masta-Wannabe BDSM-Fails are all about fear...  The fear that sooner or later the poor little noob chicks they caught at the OC Temple, will realise "Masta" is a worthless little dog's pizzle, and use the /runaway command, and "Masta" will have to go hunting the noob-pits for another "RLV Ho who's not allowed to say NO".
 

perhaps I am, perhaps I have, but then again I haven't had too many good experiences with dominants in my past for one reason or another. its caused me a bit of stress and anxiety and depression at one point and has made it harder for me to really trust or believe anyone when they try and call themselves a dominant or master or owner at times. I have random erratic mood switches because of it now. where even though I want to be a sub to someone I find myself being bratty or sassy at times for what seems like no reason. Just something triggers it and then until I can calm down I'm a real brat about things and towards people.

I'm more a switch now(was a slave once before) with a subish tendency than anything else, and the switchy nature of my being makes it hard to fully submit at times even when I want too. so it always leaves me feeling like there is something wrong with me. I see something as I posted at the top and suddenly I'm out of balance because of it and trying to second guess or over analyze every detail until it drives me into a frenzy or makes me feel like just need to be a full out brat and snarky or sassy about it. I don't really have a dominant/owner now the one I was trying to see if would be a match is hardly ever on. So I am often left to my own to deal with these emotions and feelings when they happen.

I saw that comment in the group and I was up for hours later than I should have been until I finally was too tired to stay awake but as soon as I woke I had to come to post the question or I couldn't get it off my mind.

Anyways, thanks to everyone that has replied so far. You have given me something to think about.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Rhonda Huntress said:

If it is what they enjoy, good for them.

This is pretty much it.

Mostly I focus what my subs enjoy and skip the stuff they don't. I'd rather they were happy, and feeling safe under my control, then sulky and scared. I can't imagine it any other way.

It's quite possible the person asking for this script is a dumbinant who wants to control, torment, and punish his subs without reason or care, or it possible that his sub enjoys the knowledge that they are being watched 24/7 for this. It's really hard to know.

The one thing that stacks up against the person asking for knowledge of this script is that, if it's a submissive kink then the sub should in my mind have already learnt the method and assisted their dominant in making it happen. That the person needed to ask in group suggests that this is just an idea he's had out of the blue. So meh to that.

Just now, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

I see something as I posted at the top and suddenly I'm out of balance because of it and trying to second guess or over analyze every detail until it drives me into a frenzy or makes me feel like just need to be a full out brat and snarky or sassy about it.

I think it's natural we want to protect/rescue any submissive who is being mistreated. The damage that can be done by an uncaring or undeserving Dom/me can be quite substantial. Those of us who have experienced this, or met people who have experienced it, shouldn't want to see it happen to others. We are protective because we know how much it messes people up.

But at the same time there are some great couples out there who find their enjoyment of each other heightened by kinks and devices that would 100% trigger other people.

I don't think you can ever presume to rescue someone based only on your own dislikes because you are not privy to the full dynamics of the relationship. BUT you can certainly be alert for it... and you can also be there to hold and support the abused submissive as soon as they realise what's happening and help them build up the strength to terminate the toxicity they are stuck in.

It's difficult, and it requires a little trust in other people. Trust that so many do not deserve.

You were able to escape the toxicity, they can too, don't approach this by worrying over bad dumbinants. Watch for hints of distress the sub gives, and help them based on that.

Just now, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

it always leaves me feeling like there is something wrong with me.

There is nothing wrong with you. The posts you write are well thought out, they show intelligence and strongly show a caring nature.

It can take years to meet someone you are happy submitting to, in that time please don't ever see being a brat as a bad thing. Your ideal dominant is going to be one who enjoy's that quality - and I think there are more of us who prefer that, then those who prefer broken doormats.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you to each that has responded to me about this. Your answers have given me various thoughts to think on and consider which has helped me deal with this.

11 hours ago, Callum Meriman said:

I think it's natural we want to protect/rescue any submissive who is being mistreated. The damage that can be done by an uncaring or undeserving Dom/me can be quite substantial. Those of us who have experienced this, or met people who have experienced it, shouldn't want to see it happen to others. We are protective because we know how much it messes people up.

But at the same time there are some great couples out there who find their enjoyment of each other heightened by kinks and devices that would 100% trigger other people.

I don't think you can ever presume to rescue someone based only on your own dislikes because you are not privy to the full dynamics of the relationship. BUT you can certainly be alert for it... and you can also be there to hold and support the abused submissive as soon as they realise what's happening and help them build up the strength to terminate the toxicity they are stuck in.

It's difficult, and it requires a little trust in other people. Trust that so many do not deserve.

You were able to escape the toxicity, they can too, don't approach this by worrying over bad dumbinants. Watch for hints of distress the sub gives, and help them based on that.

There is nothing wrong with you. The posts you write are well thought out, they show intelligence and strongly show a caring nature.

It can take years to meet someone you are happy submitting to, in that time please don't ever see being a brat as a bad thing. Your ideal dominant is going to be one who enjoy's that quality - and I think there are more of us who prefer that, then those who prefer broken doormats.

4

I guess it just triggered me and caused me to over worry without really knowing all the information. I can be bad about doing that sometimes. It is not that I was trying to rescue them but was curious as to what others thought about the topic and their views really. I was letting my emotions and past memories cloud my thinking at the time I think. I do realize that each has the right to decide what they like or want. I guess I was having a mini panic moment of sorts.

Trust is a very valuable commodity for me. I don't have much left these days. Because of those that I trusted and then learned later I shouldn't have.

I may have escaped the people that had treated me roughly, but I don't feel I have escaped what was done to me by them. I don't know if I can or how too. I find myself letting things weigh too heavy on me at times. Simple things like what I posted about, sets me off when it shouldn't have.

You say nothing is wrong with me but its hard to believe, though part of me wants too. I don't like feeling like somehow I failed. Yet I do often. I don't know if it was a caring nature that caused me to write this or just irrational fears.

I wish I could find the right one for me, its hard to continue looking at times, yet equally hard to stop looking. So even though I shouldn't trust, I find myself wanting to and then letting myself get hurt again even though I have reminders in my profile to prevent me from doing this(if I remembered to read them enough).

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It sounds as though you are having a really difficult time, OP. I say this gently...I think RL professional help will be better for you right now than SL connections. We all know how common a certain type of person is within the game, and if your trust reserves are low, I would not risk them here for now. When you're in a better RL place, SL will still be here and you'll be better equipped to enjoy it rather than finding it triggering and worrying. I'm not saying you shouldn't use SL at all, but perhaps use it for other things, at least for now.

I don't know if the experiences you're talking about are from SL or RL (I suspect both) but either way, you sound very vulnerable right now and the chances of you finding the ongoing, reliable and personal support you need from someone in the SL BDSM playground are low.

 

  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is (or was at least) a plug-in script for OpenCollar called 'Bad Word'. Basically if a sub typed out a forbidden word, they'd go into a spastic/writhing animation until they typed out a recovery phrase. (Usually some mantra of contriteness.)

IMO, part of a Dom/me's duty is to help make their sub a better, stronger person. Bad word is useful for someone with a typing potty mouth, or who constantly says 'sorry' when it's not needed. Modifying language used, can modify the way we think. Bad Word doesn't prevent the person from typing a forbidden word, but it does provide a consequence for using it.

Additionally, some subs have that kink of wanting their language controlled (among other ways of control).

For myself, I've never needed to use it, but I have seen it work as intended a few times.

Since we're also discussing Domming 'styles', I've grown into a more flexible one. Of course, I have my own kinks that I enjoy, but I also like finding those buttons that send my subs over the moon even if they're something I personally wouldn't find enjoyable on the other side of the leash. Is button pushing a kink? 😀 In any case, their enjoyment creates my enjoyment.

@Drakonadrgora Darkfold Trust is a vital thing to find with any potential partner. My suggestion would be to find a club or group with a structured sub program and apply. That way you can be open to play with a variety of people while still having your limits respected. If you do find 'the one', take your time and make sure the fit is right for both of you. Any Dom/me worth their salt will agree.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Roxy Couturier said:

There is (or was at least) a plug-in script for OpenCollar called 'Bad Word'. Basically if a sub typed out a forbidden word, they'd go into a spastic/writhing animation until they typed out a recovery phrase. (Usually some mantra of contriteness.)

IMO, part of a Dom/me's duty is to help make their sub a better, stronger person. Bad word is useful for someone with a typing potty mouth, or who constantly says 'sorry' when it's not needed. Modifying language used, can modify the way we think. Bad Word doesn't prevent the person from typing a forbidden word, but it does provide a consequence for using it.

Additionally, some subs have that kink of wanting their language controlled (among other ways of control).

For myself, I've never needed to use it, but I have seen it work as intended a few times.

Since we're also discussing Domming 'styles', I've grown into a more flexible one. Of course, I have my own kinks that I enjoy, but I also like finding those buttons that send my subs over the moon even if they're something I personally wouldn't find enjoyable on the other side of the leash. Is button pushing a kink? 😀 In any case, their enjoyment creates my enjoyment.

@Drakonadrgora Darkfold Trust is a vital thing to find with any potential partner. My suggestion would be to find a club or group with a structured sub program and apply. That way you can be open to play with a variety of people while still having your limits respected. If you do find 'the one', take your time and make sure the fit is right for both of you. Any Dom/me worth their salt will agree.

I know about the badwords script that is the one they were asking about. You can still get it from the github and add it to a collar. Plus there are other types of collars with similar things in them. some will even prevent you from speaking at all until you say the obligatory words first and every so often to be allowed to speak.

I guess I forgot to ever say what they wanted to use it for. It was 'train' the sub to stop saying 'fine'. I don't really see where that word would need to be trained to stop being said in normal reasons. 'fine' is not a potty mouth word imo. But again maybe they do like to be controlled and I didn't know all about what was going on in that relationship, but the way the Dom spoke it was more like they just didn't like their sub using the word. Which I think is why it triggered me and caused basically a panic attack over it. it reminded me of one of my own Owners I had once.

I have trust issues because I have had some abusive owners in my past, that broke my limits without consent to them doing so, then attempted to gaslight me or lovebomb me afterwards to make it on me and not about them. If I didn't respond how they wanted, they would attempt to use isolation as punishment for not behaving how they wanted about the situation, again was not consented to, but at the time I thought I had to allow it because didn't really know better.

gaslighting, lovebombing and isolationism can be very harmful and destructive, there are very few if any positive reason to ever allow or do these things.

Having these issues makes it hard to be open with anyone at times. I shutdown or get quiet when playing sometimes for no reason even if things were going fine at the moment. Then I get really snarky or bratty about it if confronted. Sometimes it happens afterwards where for the next few days I'm just not good to be around anyone.

If you have any suggestions for any groups or clubs like that I would be glad to give them a try and see if maybe I could find better ways to deal with my trust issues. I just hate myself at times because of this, it makes me feel like I'm worthless when these things pop up as they do. it feels like I am just damaged and broken and that no one would want me because of it.

You and the others that have posted reply's sound like those that actually care, unlike what it seems I always seem to find...

21 hours ago, Amina Sopwith said:

It sounds as though you are having a really difficult time, OP. I say this gently...I think RL professional help will be better for you right now than SL connections. We all know how common a certain type of person is within the game, and if your trust reserves are low, I would not risk them here for now. When you're in a better RL place, SL will still be here and you'll be better equipped to enjoy it rather than finding it triggering and worrying. I'm not saying you shouldn't use SL at all, but perhaps use it for other things, at least for now.

I don't know if the experiences you're talking about are from SL or RL (I suspect both) but either way, you sound very vulnerable right now and the chances of you finding the ongoing, reliable and personal support you need from someone in the SL BDSM playground are low.

 

Yes, I have been, the past few months have been really hard on me both in SL and RL. Unfortunately, I can't afford to go see an RL therapist over any of this so I am stuck muddling through this on my own right now; since I really don't have an owner or anyone else that would or could help me with it. 

My trust reserves are almost non-existent right now. Which leads to me being even more sassy about things that normally I would not have been in the past. And yes, the experiences are both from SL and RL from my past as well as from other places.

  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

I guess I forgot to ever say what they wanted to use it for. It was 'train' the sub to stop saying 'fine'. I don't really see where that word would need to be trained to stop being said in normal reasons. 'fine' is not a potty mouth word imo. But again maybe they do like to be controlled and I didn't know all about what was going on in that relationship, but the way the Dom spoke it was more like they just didn't like their sub using the word. Which I think is why it triggered me and caused basically a panic attack over it. it reminded me of one of my own Owners I had once.

Well, speaking from the lens of experience, my first guess would be a communications thing. Perhaps their sub responds with 'fine' when asked how they are even when they aren't. Not being in their dynamic, we can't know.

Right now, your lens is clouded by personal darkness. That you care shows your heart. Though when you encounter things that upset you, you might be better served by asking yourself 'why did xyz upset me?' and work though the question. Then, heck, make a list of worst case and best case reasons xyz would be done.

I'll send you a couple of LMs inworld, but everyplace (like subs and Dom/mes!) are different with their own rules and customs. Go, hang out, listen, chat and relax. Generally, the more social a group is, the more likely you are to find what you want. I'd suggest, until you're more comfortable with an individual, to simply reply to advances for play with something like I'm sorry, I really have to know someone well to play. You'll get one of three responses "That's okay." (or something like that) and continue to chat, "That's okay." and disinterest or sometimes cajoling or even abuse. The latter are big honking signs to count your lucky stars because you know to avoid them like the plague. You're under no obligation to be.. obliging, just by being there.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

But again maybe they do like to be controlled and I didn't know all about what was going on in that relationship, but the way the Dom spoke it was more like they just didn't like their sub using the word. Which I think is why it triggered me and caused basically a panic attack over it. it reminded me of one of my own Owners I had once.

Again, I say this gently...discovering something like this in SL should absolutely not be causing an RL panic attack and if it does, then for your own wellbeing you need to step away until you're in a better place. You don't need to get off SL completely but this, and the rest of your posts, absolutely scream to me that you are just not in the right place for this right now, and would get far safer and more enjoyable escapism through non sexual RP (treasure hunting pirate? Fantasy fairyland? Steampunk? Wild West?), visiting music clubs or exploring interesting sims.

I hope this doesn't sound unkind or flippant, because it is not my intention...but if my SL experience was making me as unhappy as yours appears to be, I would either change it dramatically or take a break from it entirely. It's not going anywhere, it'll always be here when you get back. 

I don't know where you're based, but I'm sure there are websites that offer free online counselling or just a listening ear if that would help you. Maybe there's even a service like that within SL, I've never looked. But assuming the overall culture of the SL BDSM playground hasn't changed dramatically since my last encounter with it, I really do not think it is the place to seek solace if you're at risk of real life panic attacks when you hear about this sort of thing.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Amina Sopwith said:

Again, I say this gently...discovering something like this in SL should absolutely not be causing an RL panic attack and if it does, then for your own wellbeing you need to step away until you're in a better place. You don't need to get off SL completely but this, and the rest of your posts, absolutely scream to me that you are just not in the right place for this right now, and would get far safer and more enjoyable escapism through non sexual RP (treasure hunting pirate? Fantasy fairyland? Steampunk? Wild West?), visiting music clubs or exploring interesting sims.

This. ^

A Dom/me - however caring (and I think it's safe to say that the caring ones are pretty rare in SL) - is not supposed to be your therapist. I know it sounds harsh but it's the truth.

 

I myself made the mistake to take special care of one of my (now former) girls when she became vulnerable due to a Real Life event. Instead of pushing her to go seek professional help, I took the time and gave her a shoulder to cry on and cuddled with her a lot, listened to her a lot and so on - all in the futile hope to help her cope.
But she became clingy instead, even possessive of me. She took these "alone times" with me for granted and focused her SL on me and my place alone, neglecting her other friends, quitting her SL job as DJane and Host, losing interest in the rest of entire SL. When I finally found it irresponsible of me that my other subs had to wait until this girl was offline, she became jealous of them, even up to the point that she said: "either alone time with you, or I'll leave SL entirely".
When I said that my other subs have the same right to be with me that she has, she became disrespectful and insulting towards me and my other subs - up the point that I "disowned" her, ejected her from my group, and banned her from my land. She started to stalk me and tried to make me take her back, even attempted emotional blackmailing. But when I did not take her back on her conditions (disowning my other subs, daily "alone time", etc) but insisted on following my own rules, even suggested that she should take a long-ish sabbatical from SL and seek professional help instead to learn to cope with what happened to her in RL, she eventually deleted her SL account, not without blaming me for this her decision first: "you made me do it: no alone time with you = no point to even keep this account". :(

I hope she's well and will find help eventually.

 

Anyways, from reading your posts, @Drakonadrgora Darkfold, I agree with @Amina Sopwith that you seem to be very vulnerable right now (no offense intended). But this vulnerability is really easy to recognize and abuse by those "Dumbinants" who you can find abound at most BDSM places. That's why I'd prefer you'd follow her suggestion over that of @Roxy Couturier even though I consider Roxy's very reasonable as well.

Edited by ThorinII
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Amina Sopwith said:

Again, I say this gently...discovering something like this in SL should absolutely not be causing an RL panic attack and if it does, then for your own wellbeing you need to step away until you're in a better place. You don't need to get off SL completely but this, and the rest of your posts, absolutely scream to me that you are just not in the right place for this right now, and would get far safer and more enjoyable escapism through non sexual RP (treasure hunting pirate? Fantasy fairyland? Steampunk? Wild West?), visiting music clubs or exploring interesting sims.

I hope this doesn't sound unkind or flippant, because it is not my intention...but if my SL experience was making me as unhappy as yours appears to be, I would either change it dramatically or take a break from it entirely. It's not going anywhere, it'll always be here when you get back. 

I don't know where you're based, but I'm sure there are websites that offer free online counselling or just a listening ear if that would help you. Maybe there's even a service like that within SL, I've never looked. But assuming the overall culture of the SL BDSM playground hasn't changed dramatically since my last encounter with it, I really do not think it is the place to seek solace if you're at risk of real life panic attacks when you hear about this sort of thing.

Well SL to me is an extension of RL I don't separate the two it is not escapism to me, the only difference in being how I look and how much information I share. Its always been a problem for me anywhere I have been online. I don't see online as any different from rl. who I am in sl is who I am in rl. Its been this way for me ever since I ever came online before sl even existed, back when there was nothing more than forums and chat groups(before social media places like fb, or myspace or livejournal), and services like icq and a-o-hell and irc. the visuals in sl is just an added on feature to me.

I have never seen myself as the toon/character or avatar in anything, not in any game either. that toon/character/avatar was just a vessel to interact with the world. it had no special meaning to me. it was not some sort of an alternate reality or alternate me or alternate personality. my emotions here are the real deal, so it does make it a little easier for me to be hurt by people at times. even as many times as I have been hurt or lied to I still want to believe in the good of humanity at times. I tend to be too open with my feelings and sometimes forget not everyone else is or ever will be like that. that to some it is just a fantasy, a game, a story and make believe or imaginary.

bdsm to me is not just sexual rp, it has a deeper meaning to me. Its a more personal thing. it is not just about being on some furniture or poseball and then emote what being done or emote in reply to what the other said or emoted. I don't take my submission lightly as maybe others here might it is not an rp to me, its a lifestyle. not saying that it's not the same to others too or at least to some.

honestly, your replies have been refreshing to see, it proves you care and have a heart and worry what others feel, so no what you have said has not been seen or taken as unkind or flippant. I am ok now over what happened on that day. I have managed to calm down about it. My original post was not just because it had startled me because of my past but also to see what others thought about it. It helped me put it more into perspective you could say.

3 hours ago, ThorinII said:

This. ^

A Dom/me - however caring (and I think it's safe to say that the caring ones are pretty rare in SL) - is not supposed to be your therapist. I know it sounds harsh but it's the truth.

 

I myself made the mistake to take special care of one of my (now former) girls when she became vulnerable due to a Real Life event. Instead of pushing her to go seek professional help, I took the time and gave her a shoulder to cry on and cuddled with her a lot, listened to her a lot and so on - all in the futile hope to help her cope.
But she became clingy instead, even possessive of me. She took these "alone times" with me for granted and focused her SL on me and my place alone, neglecting her other friends, quitting her SL job as DJane and Host, losing interest in the rest of entire SL. When I finally found it irresponsible of me that my other subs had to wait until this girl was offline, she became jealous of them, even up to the point that she said: "either alone time with you, or I'll leave SL entirely".
When I said that my other subs have the same right to be with me that she has, she became disrespectful and insulting towards me and my other subs - up the point that I "disowned" her, ejected her from my group, and banned her from my land. She started to stalk me and tried to make me take her back, even attempted emotional blackmailing. But when I did not take her back on her conditions (disowning my other subs, daily "alone time", etc) but insisted on following my own rules, even suggested that she should take a long-ish sabbatical from SL and seek professional help instead to learn to cope with what happened to her in RL, she eventually deleted her SL account, not without blaming me for this her decision first: "you made me do it: no alone time with you = no point to even keep this account". :(

I hope she's well and will find help eventually.

 

Anyways, from reading your posts, @Drakonadrgora Darkfold, I agree with @Amina Sopwith that you seem to be very vulnerable right now (no offense intended). But this vulnerability is really easy to recognize and abuse by those "Dumbinants" who you can find abound at most BDSM places. That's why I'd prefer you'd follow her suggestion over that of @Roxy Couturier even though I consider Roxy's very reasonable as well.

2

No offence taken in what you have said, you have a valid point about the dom/me is not a therapist at least most are not or cannot be because they don't have the training to be one. I am not really seeking a therapist dom/me, just someone I can be with and spend time with, who values me and my submission for what it is really worth. I am stronger then my post or replies may make it seem. I just get very emotional at times over some things. because there is no difference between my rl self and my sl self other then what I look like. and what was posted in the group chat triggered a bad memory which leads to the panic attack.

I don't trust people as easily or as deeply anymore, yes this is true. which can lead to problems of its own which I have had to learn to deal with and accept in various ways at times. I did the whole account deletion thing once before. I even took a break from sl for several years once before back when my first owner had me so messed up I was chronically depressed and became suicidal over how she had treated me and she finally left me and then just disappeared for no reason with no further contact ever, including leaving sl and deleting their account.

without going into too many details I have been abused several times in my life, RL and SL and other places. Including being molested and raped. it does something to a person going through that, it changes you. sometimes not for the better. but you adapt as best you can and try and find ways to move on.

I am sorry if I had you worried about me, it was never my intention. I was seeking others views on the topic and then started down a trip of memory lane again as I do sometimes. another one of the problems I have to deal with that makes my ability to trust or submit at times hard. I sometimes let myself drift too deep and too far back into those memories and get stuck there for a while. I have a vivid imagination, where I actually relive the moment of the memory, including the emotions and feelings when it happens. Which affects how I think and feel and respond at that moment. which can be a problem at times. Once free of the memory again I return back to normal.

Still, I want to thank you for worry and concern. it proves you care and worry about others unlike how some here are.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

Well SL to me is an extension of RL I don't separate the two it is not escapism to me, the only difference in being how I look and how much information I share. Its always been a problem for me anywhere I have been online. I don't see online as any different from rl. who I am in sl is who I am in rl. Its been this way for me ever since I ever came online before sl even existed, back when there was nothing more than forums and chat groups(before social media places like fb, or myspace or livejournal), and services like icq and a-o-hell and irc. the visuals in sl is just an added on feature to me.

I have never seen myself as the toon/character or avatar in anything, not in any game either. that toon/character/avatar was just a vessel to interact with the world. it had no special meaning to me. it was not some sort of an alternate reality or alternate me or alternate personality. my emotions here are the real deal, so it does make it a little easier for me to be hurt by people at times. even as many times as I have been hurt or lied to I still want to believe in the good of humanity at times. I tend to be too open with my feelings and sometimes forget not everyone else is or ever will be like that. that to some it is just a fantasy, a game, a story and make believe or imaginary.

bdsm to me is not just sexual rp, it has a deeper meaning to me. Its a more personal thing. it is not just about being on some furniture or poseball and then emote what being done or emote in reply to what the other said or emoted. I don't take my submission lightly as maybe others here might it is not an rp to me, its a lifestyle. not saying that it's not the same to others too or at least to some.

honestly, your replies have been refreshing to see, it proves you care and have a heart and worry what others feel, so no what you have said has not been seen or taken as unkind or flippant. I am ok now over what happened on that day. I have managed to calm down about it. My original post was not just because it had startled me because of my past but also to see what others thought about it. It helped me put it more into perspective you could say.

 

Most people do see SL as different in some way, if only in the sense that they hold back their RL identity, at least until they've built a huge connection, in order to express themselves in ways they wouldn't otherwise do. It would be a very very different place if we had to have our RL identities attached to our avs, and our avs had to look exactly like us in face, body, age and so on. 

It's lovely that you want to see the best of humanity, and is another reason why I gently remind you that you are most unlikely to find it in the SL BDSM playground. 

You are quite right not to take your submission lightly, and you shouldn't give it to anyone who does. But if your trust reserves are low, and you're at risk of RL panic attacks over the kinds of things you're going to encounter in SL BDSM (which really is different to RL; I'm not saying there's no crossover but it IS different), then I really really think this is a good time to explore the billion other things SL has to offer while you build yourself back up. It will still be here when you're ready for it. There's no rush.

Part of the reason why SL relationships are so intense is because the sort of thing that carries absolutely no weight in RL becomes incredibly significant on here. If I met you in RL, I'd know your appearance, face, name, voice, all sorts of things, you'd know mine, and neither of us would think anything of it at all. On SL, even the most mundane things like a name or a voice become hugely significant, reserved only for those whom you really know and trust, etc. When your trust reserves and emotional or mental resilience are low, this is just not a good place to risk them. Build them up again, take as much time as you need, and then come back.

I really agree with @ThorinII that a Dom/me, however caring and competent, is not a therapist and I think that, sadly, this is where a lot of SL subs fall down (not quite so much in RL in my experience; of course they draw care and support from their Dom/mes but they don't seem to do it to the exclusion of professional help or other things that could also assist them, as they often seem to on here. Not saying there are no unhealthy attachments and so on, but those happen in every sphere of human relationships.)

For various reasons, SL really IS different to RL. I could write a book about why they're different and I think some people have. We can help to protect ourselves and get positive experiences from it if we realise that and just approach it accordingly. 

Anyway, I'm glad that I've been helpful and I hope you can build yourself up.

ETA: I realise that earlier I suggested you might look at professional online therapy/counselling within SL. On second thought, that's not a good idea. Look online for somewhere where you know that any counsellor or therapist you have would be professionally trained and accredited, and there's no chance of them disappearing without explanation.

Edited by Amina Sopwith
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Amina Sopwith said:

Most people do see SL as different in some way, if only in the sense that they hold back their RL identity, at least until they've built a huge connection, in order to express themselves in ways they wouldn't otherwise do. It would be a very very different place if we had to have our RL identities attached to our avs, and our avs had to look exactly like us in face, body, age and so on. 

It's lovely that you want to see the best of humanity, and is another reason why I gently remind you that you are most unlikely to find it in the SL BDSM playground. 

You are quite right not to take your submission lightly, and you shouldn't give it to anyone who does. But if your trust reserves are low, and you're at risk of RL panic attacks over the kinds of things you're going to encounter in SL BDSM (which really is different to RL; I'm not saying there's no crossover but it IS different), then I really really think this is a good time to explore the billion other things SL has to offer while you build yourself back up. It will still be here when you're ready for it. There's no rush.

Part of the reason why SL relationships are so intense is because the sort of thing that carries absolutely no weight in RL becomes incredibly significant on here. If I met you in RL, I'd know your appearance, face, name, voice, all sorts of things, you'd know mine, and neither of us would think anything of it at all. On SL, even the most mundane things like a name or a voice become hugely significant, reserved only for those whom you becauseknow and trust, etc. When your trust reserves and emotional or mental resilience are low, this is just not a good place to risk them. Build them up again, take as much time as you need, and then come back.

I really agree with @ThorinII that a Dom/me, however caring and competent, is not a therapist and I think that, sadly, this is where a lot of SL subs fall down (not quite so much in RL in my experience; of course they draw care and support from their Dom/mes but they don't seem to do it to the exclusion of professional help or other things that could also assist them, as they often seem to on here. Not saying there are no unhealthy attachments and so on, but those happen in every sphere of human relationships.)

For various reasons, SL really IS different to RL. I could write a book about why they're different and I think some people have. We can help to protect ourselves and get positive experiences from it if we realise that and just approach it accordingly. 

Anyway, I'm glad that I've been helpful and I hope you can build yourself up.

ETA: I realise that earlier I suggested you might look at professional online therapy/counselling within SL. On second thought, that's not a good idea. Look online for somewhere where you know that any counsellor or therapist you have would be professionally trained and accredited, and there's no chance of them disappearing without explanation.

7

I guess I am one of the exceptions of those who don't see it as different. Just because the name/nick is different doesn't make it different to me. Just because the appearance is different doesn't make it different to me. But then again I have played video games been in mud/mucks, irc, and always been myself in my responses. I didn't really fantasize about who I was. It wasn't escapism or fantasy to me, just another form of interaction with other people at least in my perception of it. I wasn't the soldier shooting an enemy, I was just a player, playing a game. I wasn't the hero saving the town, I was just doing a task to further along the story. I don't read a book to become a character in the book or the world of the book, I read it just for the story and entertainment.

I have come to accept that it might not ever be as real here as it is in rl, it causes minor disappointments at times but that's part of life too, realizing you don't always get what you want or expect out of things. That sometimes it is not how you want to think it should be. I have tried to learn to not take it so personally and at times I have been able to. Just sometimes I fall back on old habits because they are comfortable.

you are right most dom/me cannot be a therapist because they don't have the professional training to be one. but sometimes just being there and listening can help, or sometimes just giving an alternate view of the situation can help at times. So it is not always a therapist that is needed just a close confidant. Someone willing to care and offer advice as you have been doing. Which it has been a help to me. but yes you have to be cautious and wary of those that become overly needy and clinging and draining, usually people who have no one else in their life to turn to.

I have taken a break from my submission to others in a way, I don't really have an owner anymore at the moment. The holidays are always a rough time for me anyways because of my past. So I am healing and changing and growing a little each day. I don't even spend as much time on sl actively as I was just a few weeks ago often just afk for long periods of time. I find more enjoyment being on the forums then being in the world at the moment.

I am not entirely sure if my lack of trust is a bad thing now. it prevents anyone from getting to close to hurt or abuse. they only get at close as I let them or want them too. if they become too disrespectful of me then they deserve little or no respect or trust from me either. yes, it still hurts a little when coming to that decision about them but then again that's part of being human too.

At times I think people should have to come to the forums first and read and respond to a set number or certain kinds of posts before being allowed in word, at least then maybe they might enter with a different perspective about certain things and maybe not be surprised or shocked or upset or hurt about how people might act at times. it would give a more healthy view, of how many people see and respond here differently than what might have been expected, coming from other places.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

I guess I am one of the exceptions of those who don't see it as different.

There's nothing inherently wrong with that, but you need to be aware that almost everyone does see it as different and uses it accordingly...so you need to do whatever you must do to protect yourself in that regard. SL also simply IS inherently different in numerous ways (hence why voice etc is so much more intense and personal here), and again, you need to work with that to make sure you don't come to any harm.

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...