Group limits changing?

[lowgun1]

I watched some live LL roundtable that said group limits, (as far as how many you can join would increase). This same webcast talked about land prices dropping & taxes on MP items would be raised in order to encourage more users to have SL land & then decorate it with items from MP. (Made sense to me at the time). This was months ago and I haven't seen or heard anything since. Anyone else know if this has already happened or is incorrect? I haven't seen land pricing drop whether you rent or buy, (although a while back they increased prim count a bit). MP pricing seems the same as well. I even heard they were developing cloud-based storage to increase performance. Maybe it was a dream or maybe the timetable is a bit longer than they made it seem?  Either way groups in SL provide vendor discounts, admittance to some of the most beautiful sims ingame & updates on new SL merch. Limiting that to a number like 60 for premium accounts shouldn't be a thing IMO, The community has grown way past the days of groups being used for chatting, making new friends or trolling. Some SL bloggers and photographers like myself are *required* to join several groups just in order to blog for that vendor. I truly hope LL is taking this into consideration, it sure seemed like it was going to happen soon from the webcast I watched. 

[Cindy Evanier]

4 minutes ago, lowgun1 said:

I watched some live LL roundtable that said group limits, (as far as how many you can join would increase). This same webcast talked about land prices dropping & taxes on MP items would be raised in order to encourage more users to have SL land & then decorate it with items from MP. (Made sense to me at the time). This was months ago and I haven't seen or heard anything since. Anyone else know if this has already happened or is incorrect? I haven't seen land pricing drop whether you rent or buy, (although a while back they increased prim count a bit). MP pricing seems the same as well. I even heard they were developing cloud-based storage to increase performance. Maybe it was a dream or maybe the timetable is a bit longer than they made it seem?  Either way groups in SL provide vendor discounts, admittance to some of the most beautiful sims ingame & updates on new SL merch. Limiting that to a number like 60 for premium accounts shouldn't be a thing IMO, The community has grown way past the days of groups being used for chatting, making new friends or trolling. Some SL bloggers and photographers like myself are *required* to join several groups just in order to blog for that vendor. I truly hope LL is taking this into consideration, it sure seemed like it was going to happen soon from the webcast I watched. 

Land prices dropped 

 

As far as I know believe the changes to groups will come with the new premium membership pricing but no news yet on when that will be and what the details will be. 

[Lindal Kidd]

The changes in land have already happened for the most part.

Over a year ago, LL increased the land impact allowance by 50%...hardly "a bit"!

The cost to purchase a private region has decreased from $1,000 USD to $600 USD, and now to $349 USD.

The monthly land cost of private regions has gone down from $295 to $249.  Plus, it is possible to assume the grandfathered pricing structure of existing grandfathered regions ($195/mo) by paying an additional one time fee of $600 when the region is transferred.

Mainland tier prices have decreased.

The tier-free bonus for Premium members has doubled, from 512 sq. m. to 1,024.

The only change that has yet to occur is the new, larger Linden Homes on 1,024 sq. m. parcels.

[Drakonadrgora Darkfold]

Though it would be interesting to see an increase in group limit I don't really see it as a needed thing. imagine being a member of over 100+ groups and they all start to pop off with im's and its mainly just advertisements by would be vendors or would be bloggers or DJ's... it could be overwhelming to some to try and keep up or follow what is being said. For yes a lot of groups are still very much used for chatting and making friends and not just about vendors selling things. So no the community has not really grown way past the days of using groups just for those reasons. You might have or want to think others have but doesn't make it the truth.

I smell a group hoarder... someone that doesn't like leaving a group because they are afraid what they might miss out on seeing so wants to join as many groups as they think should be possible. Or perhaps a group stalker... someone who wants to join all the groups of all their friends and foes and infatuations to spy on them and make sure if they talk about them or not. Or perhaps a dumbinant or masta seeking to spy/watch their sub/slave and if they say anything bad about them or speak when should have been restricted and not able to but already has joined to many groups and doesn't want to leave any of them to join all the groups of their sub/slaves. Or perhaps a group spammer, the annoying person that comes into a group and advertizes/blogs about things that other members in the group may not really care about or want to see in the group chat and would be better served to be kept in group notices but since those can be disabled people might not see them.

If the current number of groups allowed is not enough you mgiht be a little OCD about SL.

'I wanna/need to be in 1000+ groups! Let me do what I want and wish LL! Im the customer keep me happy!" in some instances the customer is not always right and does not always get or need what they think they do.

Edited December 21, 2018 by Drakonadrgora Darkfold
added another reason.

[Cindy Evanier]

15 minutes ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

I don't really see it as a needed thing

Others do.  Maybe even for the reasons you quoted.  You don't have to use up your group slots up.  I am not a big shopper so don't have my slots filled with shopping groups, I do however need advertising groups and event groups and even groups for pleasure. You don't have to use them up but as you can see throughout the forum,  many people would welcome them.

[Drakonadrgora Darkfold]

8 minutes ago, Cindy Evanier said:

Others do.  Maybe even for the reasons you quoted.  You don't have to use up your group slots up.  I am not a big shopper so don't have my slots filled with shopping groups, I do however need advertising groups and event groups and even groups for pleasure. You don't have to use them up but as you can see throughout the forum,  many people would welcome them.

That doesn't make them needed, it makes them wanted, there is a difference. sometimes you don't always get what you want just because you want. Its called learning to control and adapt and adjust as needed and not as wanted. Seen this same behavior from other people in other games where they think they 'needed' an unlimited inventory to collect/hoard as many items as they wanted. Just because they didn't like making choices and having to choose one thing over another so believed they were entitled to have it be how they wanted and complained if it wasn't and even used the excuse "abx or xyz does it so jkl should do it too!"

"give me what I 'want' because I think I need it LL!"

There is always going to be limits in things and they are never going to be high enough to make or keep everyone happy nor do they have to be either.

What's the right limit.. 100-200-300-none? because of technical limitations, some of those are just unrealistic expectations. For as soon as it is raised there will be someone coming back and saying it wasn't enough, that they still need more, and it will continue until its made unlimited or as close to as unlimited as possible which is not realistic or needed, just wanted.

Plus there is the added in factors that too many groups can cause performance and connection issues if someone was to use them all. Imagine being in 1000+ groups they all light up and cause your client to crash or your computer to freeze. So LL sets limits to help mitigate/prevent this from happening. Sometimes a developer has to think ahead of the customer and what is better for the overall experience for everyone and not just what a few might want and think or claim they need.

Might as well start asking LL to increase the region member count too, where more people can be in a region at a time, which also would have wide and varied performance effects on the user's experience. "150+ are now allowed in the same region that once only let 100, enjoy your new super laggy experience! because we are not investing more money to run more robust servers to permit this because its just not cost effective to do so."

[LittleMe Jewell]

At the last Townhall meeting LL said that they are looking into ways of allowing more groups and while not specifically said, many of us figure it will be tied in to the tiered Premium memberships that will likely come early-mid next year.  When they were talking about increased group slots they did mention that they are working on allowing the increase in a way that does not negatively impact performance on the grid.

 

3 hours ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

I smell a group hoarder... someone that doesn't like leaving a group because they are afraid what they might miss out on seeing so wants to join as many groups as they think should be possible. Or perhaps a group stalker... someone who wants to join all the groups of all their friends and foes and infatuations to spy on them and make sure if they talk about them or not. Or perhaps a dumbinant or masta seeking to spy/watch their sub/slave and if they say anything bad about them or speak when should have been restricted and not able to but already has joined to many groups and doesn't want to leave any of them to join all the groups of their sub/slaves. Or perhaps a group spammer, the annoying person that comes into a group and advertizes/blogs about things that other members in the group may not really care about or want to see in the group chat and would be better served to be kept in group notices but since those can be disabled people might not see them.

Wow, talk about some negative assumptions.  Just because you do not see a valid reason for more than 42/60 groups does not mean that other people see things the same way.  And your view is no more right than other people's view.

Edited December 21, 2018 by LittleMe Jewell

[LittleMe Jewell]

2 hours ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

To your second point, I was being realistic. everything ever added to sl either by choice of LL or by request and then the choice of LL is a want, not a need. People like to confuse the two a lot and claim things are needs when they really are just wants and not needs.

The portion of your previous post that I quoted has nothing to do with the "want" vs "need" part - and I have no issue with most of your statements regarding that concept.

The parts of you post that I was referring to when I said it was 'negative assumptions' were the following:
> I smell a group hoarder... someone that doesn't like leaving a group because they are afraid what they might miss out on seeing so wants to join as many groups as they think should be possible.
> Or perhaps a group stalker... someone who wants to join all the groups of all their friends and foes and infatuations to spy on them and make sure if they talk about them or not.
> Or perhaps a dumbinant or masta seeking to spy/watch their sub/slave and if they say anything bad about them or speak when should have been restricted and not able to but already has joined to many groups and doesn't want to leave any of them to join all the groups of their sub/slaves.
> Or perhaps a group spammer, the annoying person that comes into a group and advertizes/blogs about things that other members in the group may not really care about or want to see in the group chat and would be better served to be kept in group notices but since those can be disabled people might not see them.

People can want to join lots of groups for many reasons other than those.

 

As a side note -- The OP never said anything about "needing" to join groups (actually nobody did before you brought it up).  The OP simply asked about something he had heard about and you chose to assume that he was somehow confusing need with want.  

 

[Qie Niangao]

I feel sorry for the OP who asked a simple question, got his Answer, and has since been bombarded with discussion, as if this were one of the normal forums instead of Answers.

So I'll add more.

Nostalgia is one thing that makes it hard for me to leave a Group. Even though I may be the only member who's logged-in for a decade, some ancient Groups still have meaning to me and I like to be reminded of them occasionally when my Group List is open. So yeah, it's a kind of hoarding I guess, sorta like folks who keep heirloom teacups from their great aunt who held the best teddy bear picnics in the dappled sunlight under the wisteria... *sniffs*

Stinginess is another reason. Even though I'll almost certainly never buy a mesh head from this place that briefly gave them away to Group members -- where joining the group cost L$150 -- I'm just penny-pincher enough to hate admitting I wasted sixty cents on that deal. (They were horrid heads, too.)

In both cases, though, the group membership could be suspended or archived or something where none of the group functions apply until re-activated. Okay, that's a feature not worth developing, but in general unbundling group functions might be useful. It's not as if it costs the Lab to keep a long list of Groups -- they know how to store and search and scroll through unbounded Friends Lists; rather it's that Group memberships have actual consequences including checking each time an avatar crosses a parcel boundary. I think that's why we've seen only measured expansion of the Group List.

[May Suki]

On 12/21/2018 at 3:01 PM, LittleMe Jewell said:

At the last Townhall meeting LL said that they are looking into ways of allowing more groups and while not specifically said, many of us figure it will be tied in to the tiered Premium memberships that will likely come early-mid next year.  When they were talking about increased group slots they did mention that they are working on allowing the increase in a way that does not negatively impact performance on the grid.

And so it has happened:

 

However, the change in groups is actually only a +3 increase for individuals overall - of the 10 groups added to premium accounts, 7 were taken from the allotment given to basic accounts. Thus, basic (free) accounts will actually *lose* 7 slots.

I can see how that hurts - and I'm not talking about shopping, or blogging - but working in clubs. Each club requires its staff to have two groups, maybe three - and in one notable and very popular club, I had to have six. This doesnt include general groups for posting notices about upcoming events in, and doesnt include special events which may also have groups.

Some of us can use more groups.

[Fox Wijaya]

1 hour ago, MayStone said:

And so it has happened:

Some of us can use more groups.

please keep this subject in the active threads? Now it gets allover the place and many won't look at the answers section ( because it's no discussion here)

If people finally would use the groups in the right way, and look deeper, you don't need a zillion groups for the same venue. A onwer can switch roles out of notices, so when only managment is selected they would would receive it. ( if not buggy)

Edited May 31, 2019 by Fox Wijaya

[Drakonadrgora Darkfold]

16 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

At the last Townhall meeting LL said that they are looking into ways of allowing more groups and while not specifically said, many of us figure it will be tied in to the tiered Premium memberships that will likely come early-mid next year.  When they were talking about increased group slots they did mention that they are working on allowing the increase in a way that does not negatively impact performance on the grid.

 

Wow, talk about some negative assumptions.  Just because you do not see a valid reason for more than 42/60 groups does not mean that other people see things the same way.  And your view is no more right than other people's view.

To your first point if they can do it then fine, but if they increase the number by too many I don't see how it will be possible without a negative effect. And yes it will more than likely be tied to premium accounts. So it will be of little benefit to the average sl user that doesn't have or need or want a premium account. If they increase it by just a small amount people will still come back and complain it wasn't enough. Seen this happen many times in games that had limited inventories. Because you cannot please everyone all the time. And in some cases, shouldn't try.

To your second point, I was being realistic. everything ever added to sl either by choice of LL or by request and then the choice of LL is a want, not a need. People like to confuse the two a lot and claim things are needs when they really are just wants and not needs. And that just because some other service does it that all services need to do it too, again flawed and false logical assumptions. If a service 'a' does feature 'b' then all other services should also do feature 'b' or I will complain it is needed to be added because I think its a need when it is just a want.

I have had these kinds of discussions all over the web on various other games and services and there is always someone who doesn't like having what I said put before them because they want to continue to claim what they say is a need and refused to accept it is just a want. because they are afraid that the developer might see it and say "yep, just a want, which we don't currently see as needed so it won't be added." which leaves them in the state of frustration that their want was not fulfilled like they think it had/needed to be done.

I need a new computer to get off this crappy laptop, are you going to go get me one and give me what I want just to make me happy again? More than likely no, the same outcome applies to anyone else's wants that they call needs.  Claiming something to be other than what it is doesn't make it become that other ever.

So to try and claim something is a need is a false statement when in regards to anything about how sl works, it really is just a want and really is up to LL if it is ever added or not. Not just because some user thinks it should be or is required or is needed to make them happy.

You can ask for as many features as you want but doesn't really mean you need them or will get them or should or have too.

[KiiPii]

Umm  having more groups would be actually perfect....as  Sl  has grown and the way that we  travel in so many  different  areas and  friends and family having  security on there lands and handle it with groups...Yes it is needed unless you don't socialize at all and  don't shop or have a business or  blog or do any thing more than go to a club and dance.

For all of you who think its not necessary,  you should  travel in a  seasoned active avatars life and see how hard it is to juggle groups. And you need groups for almost every thing now.

I'm for raising the  group limit, not only would it help the  individual but it  most likely would increase revenues for sl.

 

[Drakonadrgora Darkfold]

11 hours ago, KiiPii said:

Umm  having more groups would be actually perfect....as  Sl  has grown and the way that we  travel in so many  different  areas and  friends and family having  security on there lands and handle it with groups...Yes it is needed unless you don't socialize at all and  don't shop or have a business or  blog or do any thing more than go to a club and dance.

For all of you who think its not necessary,  you should  travel in a  seasoned active avatars life and see how hard it is to juggle groups. And you need groups for almost every thing now.

I'm for raising the  group limit, not only would it help the  individual but it  most likely would increase revenues for sl.

 

It is not needed or necessary it is wanted. Nothing that was really added to sl was needed, just wanted by the users. I have been a part of sl for 10 years. And I have no problems leaving groups at all to join different groups to find what I need to know then leave that group and go back to another group or find a new group. then again I'm not ocd about sl either. it is not hard to juggle groups at all. and you don't need groups for everything you do in sl. that is just an excuse made by those who want more or unlimited groups because they don't like having to chose, same as those who complained in other games that they 'needed' unlimited inventory space. when really they just wanted it.

you don't need 100+ groups in sl. You want 100+ groups. Because you are obsessed or afraid of not seeing or hearing what someone might have said, leaving you out of the loop or preventing you from defending your honor or reputation against what some evil person might have said about you in that group. People who think they need so many groups are also the people who in rl think they need to know everything that is going on in everyone's life all the time be it friends or family or strangers or afraid that someone is talking about them behind their back, aka insecure. It has nothing to do with being social or not. You don't need 100+ groups to be social or to run a business or be a blogger or be a shopper in sl.

there are no express or implied or actual needs in sl, it is all wants by the users.

I need sl not to be so laggy. I need sl not to be filled with entitlement minded people. I need sl not to be filled with so needy or clingy or insecure or ocd people. but realistically I know my needs will never be filled; because they are just wants and not needs. Even if I tell myself they are needs.

Just because you might want to call something a need doesn't make it a need.