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What are some of your pet peeves?

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Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Okay, explain why it was a "mistake." The user demographic you were referring to already exists and catering to it doesn't seem to be having a negative effect on the project's popularity.

Did you read the post? Properly read it?

I'm going to guess not, since you're actually being serious here or so it seems.

The popularity of the project is meaningless to my statement as it the existence of a vehicle using demographic (after all, if it didn't exist, why cater to it?) - the message sent by that catering combined with the continent placement is the pertinent bit there.

This new continent is essentially Linden Homes 2.0. it is not Mainland.

Have the Lindens tried their hand at a covenant restricted community before? Yes, they have. Some with better results than others, all part of the Mainland and some giving the wrong impression of what to expect elsewhere.

That is the key bit there.

Is what they're doing covenant wise for this new continent a good idea? Possibly. Connecting Linden Homes 2.0 to Mainland? No.

Mainland, taken as a whole, does not have the restrictions placed upon it that this new continent does.

Those who have been around Second Life for a while will understand this discrepancy. Those who haven't ... simply won't.

Up until now, Linden Lab has left it up to the user base to create varied communities around their interests, be it on Mainland or elsewhere. That is how Blake Sea came to be after all.

For Mainland, that is how it should remain.

Mind, I am well aware that my opinion on the matter is rather unpopular - it is what it is.

Edited by Solar Legion

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2 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

Did you read the post? Properly read it?

I'm going to guess not, since you're actually being serious here or so it seems.

The popularity of the project is meaningless to my statement as it the existence of a vehicle using demographic (after all, if it didn't exist, why cater to it?) - the message sent by that catering combined with the continent placement is the pertinent bit there.

This new continent is essentially Linden Homes 2.0. it is not Mainland.

Have the Lindens tried their hand at a covenant restricted community before? Yes, they have. Some with better results than others, all part of the Mainland and some giving the wrong impression of what to expect elsewhere.

That is the key bit there.

Is what they're doing covenant wise for this new continent a good idea? Possibly. Connecting Linden Homes 2.0 to Mainland? No.

Mainland, taken as a whole, does not have the restrictions placed upon it that this new continent does.

Those who have been around Second Life for a while will understand this discrepancy. Those who haven't ... simply won't.

Up until now, Linden Lab has left it up to the user base to create varied communities around their interests, be it on Mainland or elsewhere. That is how Blake Sea came to be after all.

For Mainland, that is how it should remain.

Okay, after properly reading all of this I keep coming up with, "I want to do whatever I want with my 'land', I can't afford my own region and I don't want to rent one."

Mainland is a different product than private estates, and one of the big things that makes it different is that it is connected. If you grow oranges and lemons in many ways you'll treat them the same way, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea to sell 16-ounce bottles of lemon juice in refrigerators at gas stations because that's what you do with your orange juice.

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And because you "keep coming up with" anything at all, you're reading into what is being written and thus making your response rather meaningless as a result - you're not responding to what was written but to what you imagine it means.

Mainland being connected is irrelevant: The vast majority has no Covenant and thus affords those on it quite a bit of freedom. That is the entire point of it.

If you want something more restrictive, you make a community. You then have said community either purchase up all of the land in an existing region or go off and make their own Estate.

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26 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

Mainland being connected is irrelevant: The vast majority has no Covenant and thus affords those on it quite a bit of freedom. That is the entire point of it.

That's because the restrictions that would normally be in a Covenant are in a separate document that the TOS references and incorporates:

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Mainland_policies

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17 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

That's because the restrictions that would normally be in a Covenant are in a separate document that the TOS references and incorporates:

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Mainland_policies

Nearly all of that information is contained inside the Terms of Service and the Community Standards - documents which affect the entire service and are a baseline.

A policy on a Wiki does not meant very much and exists as clarification and a variant of FAQ.

So again, the vast majority has no Covenant.

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1 minute ago, Solar Legion said:

Nearly all of that information is contained inside the Terms of Service and the Community Standards - documents which affect the entire service and are a baseline.

A policy on a Wiki does not meant very much and exists as clarification and a variant of FAQ.

So again, the vast majority has no Covenant.

Did you read the post document? Properly read it?

"The Mainland Policies are incorporated into Second Life’s Terms of Service. A violation of these Mainland Policies, therefore, is a violation of our Terms of Service, which may lead to termination of your account without further obligation on our part. "

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2 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Did you read the post document? Properly read it?

"The Mainland Policies are incorporated into Second Life’s Terms of Service. A violation of these Mainland Policies, therefore, is a violation of our Terms of Service, which may lead to termination of your account without further obligation on our part. "

Why yes, yes I did.

Did you properly read my response?

Rhetorical question - no, you did not.

Here it is again:

Quote

Nearly all of that information is contained inside the Terms of Service and the Community Standards - documents which affect the entire service and are a baseline.

A policy on a Wiki does not meant very much and exists as clarification and a variant of FAQ.

So again, the vast majority has no Covenant.

Is there some part of that, that confuses you?

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1 minute ago, Solar Legion said:

Why yes, yes I did.

Did you properly read my response?

Rhetorical question - no, you did not.

Here it is again:

Is there some part of that, that confuses you?

I'm confused how you could think that Mainland not having a covenant is significant when it's under regulations that are more powerful than a covenant. A convicted felon can say "I never committed a misdemeanor" but that isn't saying  much.

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10 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

I'm confused how you could think that Mainland not having a covenant is significant when it's under regulations that are more powerful than a covenant. A convicted felon can say "I never committed a misdemeanor" but that isn't saying  much.

Those regulations apply everywhere - not just Mainland. The lack of a Covenant means there are no extra restrictions.

Which is - again - the point.

A point that is not all that hard to grasp. At all.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Solar Legion said:

Those regulations apply everywhere - not just Mainland. The lack of a Covenant means there are no extra restrictions.

Which is - again - the point.

A point that is not all that hard to grasp. At all.

What regulations? The regulations after these lines?

"The mainland is a Second Life area in which Linden Lab is the estate owner and exercises elevated discretion regarding content and design. Special rules and policies apply to landowners and businesses on the mainland."

It looks like I need to point this out again - the Mainland Policies that I linked to are an official Linden Lab policy that is incorporated into the TOS. As it happens, that document is stored in a Wiki, but so are the a.g.e.p.l.a.y and skilled gaming policies:

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Official_Information_and_Policies_Portal

Edited by Theresa Tennyson
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1 hour ago, Solar Legion said:

Those regulations apply everywhere - not just Mainland. The lack of a Covenant means there are no extra restrictions.

Which is - again - the point.

A point that is not all that hard to grasp. At all.

Ah! *light bulb over head goes on*

Now that I get what you are saying, how is not having a covenant on mainland yet having one on the Linden homes any different than the city's laws being being more restrictive than a smaller community's? Or city and state, state and federal. I see nothing wrong with having different sets of rules for different situations. Which is all LL has done with the Linden homes. They're a bit different situation from Mainland.

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27 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

What regulations? The regulations after these lines?

"The mainland is a Second Life area in which Linden Lab is the estate owner and exercises elevated discretion regarding content and design. Special rules and policies apply to landowners and businesses on the mainland."

You can stop being willfully obtuse any time. 

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Just now, Solar Legion said:

You can stop being willfully obtuse any time. 

Some don't have that option, apparently.

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31 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

... --- ...

It was a comment about irony but I changed my mind.

I still wish we had a option to ignore specific threads.

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1 hour ago, Rhonda Huntress said:

It was a comment about irony but I changed my mind.

I still wish we had a option to ignore specific threads.

I was trying to lighten the mood a bit with Morse Code.

Would be nice but hey, it's LL. :|

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1 minute ago, Selene Gregoire said:

I was trying to lighten the mood a bit with Morse Code.

OOOHHHH!

/me slaps forehead

 

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

That much is obvious from some of your responses. 

You're presenting information that does nothing at all to counter what I've said thus far while pretending it somehow does. 

 

1 hour ago, Solar Legion said:

Those regulations apply everywhere - not just Mainland. The lack of a Covenant means there are no extra restrictions.

Which is - again - the point.

A point that is not all that hard to grasp. At all.

There are extra restrictions as spelled out in a document written by Linden Lab in an area used for official policies. That document is for Mainland and not everywhere. In other words, you are incorrect.

Edited by Theresa Tennyson
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Posted (edited)

That "document" spells out the meaning behind existing policies, as made very apparent by the very bit you yourself quoted further up thread. 

It also makes it clear that said policies are part of the Terms of Service, which affects Mainland and Private Islands alike. 

These are thus, not additional restrictions. 

Again, you can stop now. 

It's quite obvious you've not been tracking along with what has been said. 

It's also quite obvious that continuing further is pointless. 

Believe you're correct if that is what you wish. 

Edited by Solar Legion

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2 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

That "document" spells out the meaning behind existing policies, as made very apparent by the very bit you yourself quoted further up thread. 

It also makes it clear that said policies are part of the Terms of Service, which affects Mainland and Private Islands alike. 

These are thus, not additional restrictions. 

Again, you can stop now. 

It's quite obvious you've not been tracking along with what has been said. 

How very Deakinsian of you...

I will stop to reduce the public annoyance though. If anyone wants to know what the policies actually say I gave you all the links.

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

That "document" spells out the meaning behind existing policies, as made very apparent by the very bit you yourself quoted further up thread. 

It also makes it clear that said policies are part of the Terms of Service, which affects Mainland and Private Islands alike. 

These are thus, not additional restrictions.

This is an argument from semantics: it would be more helpful if you addressed the specific policies that are listed in that document. At the moment, I have no idea if you are correct or not, because I don't know the answer to the following . . .

Viz. . . . are ad farms also restricted on estates? Is "land-cutting" only prohibited on the mainland? Do estate owners have the same kind of freedoms that LL reserves for itself on the mainland, with regards to things like maturity ratings, landscaping, etc.? The key here is . . . which of these apply to all land in SL? And are the powers that LL has as landowner simply in parallel to those available to estate owners, or are there extra ones?

If the answer to all of these is that they apply also to private estates, and LL's powers and policies are matched by those that apply there, then you would seem to me to be correct. If that is not the case, and these are additional powers and policies that don't or needn't apply elsewhere, then it seems to me Theresa is right.

I am actually interested in the answer.

Edited by Scylla Rhiadra

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10 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

This is an argument from semantics: it would be more helpful if you addressed the specific policies that are listed in that document. At the moment, I have no idea if you are correct or not, because I don't know the answer to the following . . .

Viz. . . . are ad farms also restricted on estates? Is "land-cutting" only prohibited on the mainland? Do estate owners have the same kind of freedoms that LL reserves for itself on the mainland, with regards to things like maturity ratings, landscaping, etc.? The key here is . . . which of these apply to all land in SL? And are the powers that LL has as landowner simply in parallel to those available to estate owners, or are there extra ones?

If the answer to all of these is that they apply also to private estates, and LL's powers and policies are matched by those that apply there, then you would seem to me to be correct. If that is not the case, and these are additional powers and policies that don't or needn't apply elsewhere, then it seems to me Theresa is right.

I am actually interested in the answer.

Read the last paragraph regarding bots - they specifically added a line saying that it applied to non-Mainland estates. If the entirety of the document was meant to apply to all estates and not just Mainland there would be no need for it.

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"The Mainland Policies are incorporated into Second Life’s Terms of Service. A violation of these Mainland Policies, therefore, is a violation of our Terms of Service, which may lead to termination of your account without further obligation on our part. "

If such is the case then the policies are global. Period.

Anyone care to go through the Terms of Service to see if said Policies are framed in the Terms of Service as applying only to Mainland? 

If such is the case there, then I'll retract my statements. 

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